[JJStripes]

LOL just because some crazy fanboys will pay that much means nothing.

It means that some crazy fanboys will pay that much. But it's more than just a few. Just ask the Canadians that were smart enough to take advantage of BB's gradual roll-out of those devices. Some people made serious money exporting to the USA.

[MarsupilamiX]

It means that some crazy fanboys will pay that much. But it's more than just a few. Just ask the Canadians that were smart enough to take advantage of BB's gradual roll-out of those devices. Some people made serious money exporting to the USA.

As it happens with a lot of goods when their international availability isn't existant.
There were Playstation 4s going for over 800$ on ebay.
Strangely enough, Sony doesn't sell the PS4 for that price though.

The iPhone 1 would regularly beat the 1.5k on ebay, as it wasn't released in Europe, but people wanted it.
And even though Apple is known for overpricing, not even they asked for such a price.

Don't get me wrong, but your thoughts sound childishly naive.
No harm has been done, but the idea of BlackBerry successfully selling devices for a 1.5k is as "cute" as the 8 year old who thinks that he'll become rich through selling Lemonade for 50 cents a cup.
With the child at least having some realistical pricing in mind.

I am all for a high-end BlackBerry though, that's for sure.
But if other manufacturers can sell their flagships for 600$, then BlackBerry should at least be able to come close.

Posted via CB10

[kbz1960]

It means that some crazy fanboys will pay that much. But it's more than just a few. Just ask the Canadians that were smart enough to take advantage of BB's gradual roll-out of those devices. Some people made serious money exporting to the USA.

I'm sure and more power to them for finding people with more $$ than brains. But it's their $$$ to blow however they want to be it and overpriced phone or toilet.

[TGR1]

I don't think either "gamble" or "instead" are appropriate here. I expect BlackBerry's next hardware will be a flagship all-touch device, so it's not instead, it's just earlier on the timeline. I don't think it's a gamble either. Classic and Passport are meant to encourage BBOS7 holdouts to upgrade to BB10. It makes sense financially to go after them first, and I don't see it as much of a gamble with Foxconn's involvement and the number of enterprise customers that still want a keyboard.



It's fair to call what happened on ebay anecdotal, but I think that term understates the fact that a significant number of Z10s, Q10s, and Z30s were bought by Americans before American release for prices in excess of $1000. Many even sold for more than $1500.

I am not making a general statement about economics and then applying it to BlackBerry. The evidence, however anecdotal, was BlackBerry specific, and is now being applied to BlackBerry.

I should have been more clear about the reason why a high price tag would be necessary. It's not because the specs would be far in excess of other flagships, but because the limited number of sales would require the fixed cost be divided among fewer devices. I'm asking BB to make a top-spec all touch device; appreciate the fact that there won't be a huge market for it; adjust production accordingly; make it a winning proposition for BB by pricing it where it needs to be to cover costs. When they realize that they will have to charge $1200 to make it work in such a small quantity they don't have to be scared off because there is a market for that device, and ebay activity is evidence of that.

Until you can actually quantify "many" as being in the very high thousands at a minimum, BBRY would be insane to try this. $1500 for a phone that spec wise is otherwise on par with other premium phones for say a *highly* optimistic 10000 buyers is still only $15mill revenue (not profit). That's nothing. And for what? Bad feeling from upset fans who rave about the phone and complain why it was priced out of their range, ridicule from the press? And BBRY could expect to sell such a phone for about 3 months at that price before its value is gone, superceded by newer phones on the market.

Ebay resellers can take advantage of irrational buyer behavior because they are fly by night. Big companies with reputations can't afford to do that.

FWIW, I think both the Porsche and Vertu type phones are a huge ripoff. But, hey, it's your money not mine.

[JJStripes]

Until you can actually quantify "many" as being in the very high thousands at a minimum, BBRY would be insane to try this. $1500 for a phone that spec wise is otherwise on par with other premium phones for say a *highly* optimistic 10000 buyers is still only $15mill revenue (not profit). That's nothing. And for what? Bad feeling from upset fans who rave about the phone and complain why it was priced out of their range, ridicule from the press? And BBRY could expect to sell such a phone for about 3 months at that price before its value is gone, superceded by newer phones on the market.

Ebay resellers can take advantage of irrational buyer behavior because they are fly by night. Big companies with reputations can't afford to do that.

FWIW, I think both the Porsche and Vertu type phones are a huge ripoff. But, hey, it's your money not mine.

I agree with pretty much everything here. It's totally unrealistic to think BB would actually undertake a proposition like I described, but I sure wish they would.

[RH1Pearl]

Just because Foxconn manufactures for BlackBerry doesn't mean they can produce phones on the go at a lower cost. These OEMs probably have a minimum order and they are in the hundreds of thousands. The smaller the order the higher cost per unit. If BlackBerry ordered 100,000 of these super phones, there is surely risk on BlackBerry's side selling it at $1500 a pop for securing that higher cost per unit minimum order.

[bambinoitaliano]

Where did the number $5000 come from? Prior mention of numbers in this thread were up to $1500 which we know some people are willing pay because they did already on ebay. $5000 is outlandish and diminishes your credibility in making a meaningful contribution to this conversation.

I am glad to know that you have taken at least a high school level micro -economics course and know a little about price elasticity. Fortunately, BlackBerry smartphones are not a homogeneous to other smartphones, and upward deviations from the equilibrium price do not result in zero sales. There was a lot of ebay sales for more than $1000 when BB's first 3 BB10 phones came out, so it is clear that at least that many people aren't very sensitive to changes in price. We call that a change in quantity of demand, which is a movement along the demand curve. It actually seems like the demand curve is flat enough that BB could get away with charging a steep price for the right device.

Care to give the number of your many people who are not sensitive to price changes? Just how many of these people you seems to know the numbers of are require to purchase Passport to actually make an iota of difference to BlackBerry bottom line? Even with my ludicrous pricing there are still not enough amount of people to make a difference. Your PhD on economics is irrelevant.

Posted via CB10

[JJStripes]

Just because Foxconn manufactures for BlackBerry doesn't mean they can produce phones on the go at a lower cost. These OEMs probably have a minimum order and they are in the hundreds of thousands. The smaller the order the higher cost per unit. If BlackBerry ordered 100,000 of these super phones, there is surely risk on BlackBerry's side selling it at $1500 a pop for securing that higher cost per unit minimum order.

Care to give the number of your many people who are not sensitive to price changes? Just how many of these people you seems to know the numbers of are require to purchase Passport to actually make an iota of difference to BlackBerry bottom line? Even with my ludicrous pricing there are still not enough amount of people to make a difference. Your PhD on economics is irrelevant.

Posted via CB10

Guys, I don't have numbers or any elaborate price/quantity curves to back this stuff up. All I am saying is that there were people willing to spend more than a $1000 for Z10s, Q10s, and Z30s, and that indicates that they might be willing to do that for a higher spec all touch as well. It would be up to BB to do a study on whether it is feasible. I'm just say that it is something worth discussing. I don't claim to have done any hard math on this. Heck, I haven't even tried to figure out how many sold on ebay at these prices.

Furthermore, I do recognize that I am ignoring other things that come into play should BB do something like this. I mean, the media would rip BB apart if they started selling a smartphone for a grand. I can see the headline now, "BB can't sell phones for $500 so they try to sell them for $1000 instead." It's pretty crazy. I get that.

[RH1Pearl]

Guys, I don't have numbers or any elaborate price/quantity curves to back this stuff up. All I am saying is that there were people willing to spend more than a $1000 for Z10s, Q10s, and Z30s, and that indicates that they might be willing to do that for a higher spec all touch as well. It would be up to BB to do a study on whether it is feasible. I'm just say that it is something worth discussing. I don't claim to have done any hard math on this. Heck, I haven't even tried to figure out how many sold on ebay at these prices.

Furthermore, I do recognize that I am ignoring other things that come into play should BB do something like this. I mean, the media would rip BB apart if they started selling a smartphone for a grand. I can see the headline now, "BB can't sell phones for $500 so they try to sell them for $1000 instead." It's pretty crazy. I get that.

No harm no foul. You have valid comments, just pointing some things out for the sake of debate. My POV is from manufacturers side as I've seen Walmart order goods for minimum of 500,000 units. I ordered the same product for 20,000 units and I paid 50% more. This is why US consumers enjoy lower prices on most electronic gadgets as their orders are massive.

[SK122387]

Charging $1500 for a high end device would be suicide.

Who here can realistically be paying that kind of money for a device? There would be very few members on "#TeamBlackBerry" in the coming years, as the new devices would be priced too high for most people. Everyone knows BlackBerry's fan base is rabidly loyal, and without them during these last couple years, I really don't think BlackBerry would be on the comeback trail. So to make their devices virtually unattainable to their fan base would be the worst thing they could do.

[app_Developer]

Guys, I don't have numbers or any elaborate price/quantity curves to back this stuff up. All I am saying is that there were people willing to spend more than a $1000 for Z10s, Q10s, and Z30s, and that indicates that they might be willing to do that for a higher spec all touch as well. It would be up to BB to do a study on whether it is feasible. I'm just say that it is something worth discussing. I don't claim to have done any hard math on this. Heck, I haven't even tried to figure out how many sold on ebay at these prices.

Furthermore, I do recognize that I am ignoring other things that come into play should BB do something like this. I mean, the media would rip BB apart if they started selling a smartphone for a grand. I can see the headline now, "BB can't sell phones for $500 so they try to sell them for $1000 instead." It's pretty crazy. I get that.

And what others are saying is that those few fanatics who were willing to pay that much cannot buy enough phones to matter.

They didn't buy enough Z10's to matter either. BlackBerry still took enormous losses on that device.