[baarn]

The blog link in this thread seems relevant here :
http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?p=10754173

[Tre Lawrence]

That would be fine by me, I paid that and more using that platform.

Posted via CB10

I believe you would. Most folks probably wouldn't though.

I spent a quite a lot on Palm... man...

[Thunderbuck]

I think that Heinz attempted to change the audience, he wanted BlackBerry 10 to be the " new" iPhone, he lost focus, I think that was a bad move. Not saying that BlackBerry 10 couldn't be the "iPhone killer" it just wasn't ready for prime time. The loss of identity and confusion that ensued including the attempted sale further tainted the company . I just hope that Chen stays focused and the rest will fall into place.


Posted via CB10

Heinz had a lot of strengths as CEO, particularly on the product and operations side, but marketing was definitely not his strongest suit.

Chen seems to have a sharper focus on market, and is definitely more customer-oriented. All that said, I think the only real change in BlackBerry's marketing since 2010 is the company's gradual realization that they can't hold the general consumer market. They only really had that for a couple of years anyway.

They need to play to their strengths now, and I think they're doing that. Security is still their strong selling point, and even though BES10 (soon to be 12) is a great multi-platform MDM system, users will still get their best experience on it with a BlackBerry handset. Security and Enterprise, always their two strongest points.

In the meantime, BB10 has improved as a platform almost weekly since it was introduced, and its ever-expanding Android support should (hopefully) help it find a bunch of new friends over the next year. Getting back to the OP's point, that's when we'll start seeing more developer support.

BTW, there ARE advantages to being the "alternative". Try debating the merits of Windows with a rabid Linux enthusiast. BlackBerry has the chance to develop that kind of following just because they AREN'T Apple, Google, or Microsoft...

[crackbrry fan]

Heinz had a lot of strengths as CEO, particularly on the product and operations side, but marketing was definitely not his strongest suit.

Chen seems to have a sharper focus on market, and is definitely more customer-oriented. All that said, I think the only real change in BlackBerry's marketing since 2010 is the company's gradual realization that they can't hold the general consumer market. They only really had that for a couple of years anyway.

They need to play to their strengths now, and I think they're doing that. Security is still their strong selling point, and even though BES10 (soon to be 12) is a great multi-platform MDM system, users will still get their best experience on it with a BlackBerry handset. Security and Enterprise, always their two strongest points.

In the meantime, BB10 has improved as a platform almost weekly since it was introduced, and its ever-expanding Android support should (hopefully) help it find a bunch of new friends over the next year. Getting back to the OP's point, that's when we'll start seeing more developer support.

BTW, there ARE advantages to being the "alternative". Try debating the merits of Windows with a rabid Linux enthusiast. BlackBerry has the chance to develop that kind of following just because they AREN'T Apple, Google, or Microsoft...

With this link, the excuse that developers use, to not develop native apps for BlackBerry 10 is kind of pathetic, there are other revenue streams that are available and as this link states that ,apart from other tools .

http://devblog.blackberry.com/2014/07/smaato/

BlackBerry has made every possible overture to the Developer Community they just chose to not develop for BlackBerry.

Here is another dated link indicating reasons why developers where jumping ship when BlackBerry was still on BBOS.
They decided to do so, even though cost to bring apps to market and profitability was better with the Platform. Therefore the argument that some developers come here with is weak. There is a pretty good analysis of where they were heading at the time. So YES I do blame developers to a great extent for BlackBerry's10 , dilemma .

http://gigaom.com/2012/06/21/which-m...ts-blackberry/


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[HabsFan9860]

In a Department store I also have choice, many discounted items and many designer high end stuff. Not all my clients will buy the high end stuff. I can appreciate your statement that if items aren't selling well that it maybe discontinued. This particular scenario with BlackBerry has been from the get go, " no support". I would say that "boycott" seems to be the case. So again, if I as a professional developer ,wants to charge for the smaller audience I would do so to cover for time spent creating for a smaller platform. Again this is just my take. If after a while there isn't any uptake, I may then decide to drop/ modify my product on that particular platform . BlackBerry has not been given a fair shake by the Development community this again is my opinion on the topic.

Posted via CB10

...I like your posts on the subject and agree 100%...my take on the subject, and I will likely get a lot of flak from most of the 'developers' on here...but I honestly don't care as I don't support their product anyway.....this 'oh we don't because there isn't a market for, or not worth the $$' argument to me is nothing more than either lack of pure skill...or just laziness...and I will back up that statement with my own business which has a similar...structure......I provide services and tech support for industrial compressed air...I back every single manufacturer there is as far as service and repairs etc...from the giants like Atlas Copco, Gardner Denver etc right down to the almost obscure Canadian Air Compressor. I constantly go after business that has been dropped (and often they come looking for me based on reputation) by other service companies that have the very attitude as these 'developers'...oddly enough over the years the ones that have stuck around are service companies that operate as I do, and the selective companies start off strong, but usually lose to our model in the end. My company in particular has been able to recently expand into areas that my competition can't go because of their selectivity...I have been allowed the flexibility to develop new services and hardware to expand ourselves...had we stuck with just the few big names, I wouldn't have been able to expand as I am now...no it's not a quick growth, but we are far more stable for the long haul because we work with anyone, and everyone...to say it's not worth it to operate like that is just being lazy to me...afraid to take the big risks or whatever it may be...even BlackBerry gets it, by buying up QNX for example puts them into far more markets than they were before...one other poster had an interesting take on it...something along the lines of being a one or two OS developer and get lost amongst the hundreds of other developers that are doing the same or similar thing as you are...and I know this may be a stretch...but then again it has happened before...what if BlackBerry starts to take off? ...be it people want something fresh as iOS and Android become stale...or whatever...then what? ...you as a developer are having to run in the other direction to cover your *** so you don't lose out on a rising trend?...it doesn't hurt to keep up on all the major OS's...and yes BlackBerry is still a major OS, you would be foolish to assume otherwise considering their depth...and besides, there are plenty of developers big and small that see the value of BlackBerry native apps so the argument is just about lost right there.......my humble opinion anyway...be it a little long......

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[early2bed]

.....this 'oh we don't because there isn't a market for, or not worth the $$' argument to me is nothing more than either lack of pure skill...or just laziness...

So, the 99% of mobile developers out there who do not develop for BB10 lack skill or are just plain lazy. That's quite an indictment of a major industry that has change the way that most people use technology. And I thought these people knew what they were doing. Thankfully, I have come to the Crackberry forums to learn the truth about what the mobile software development industry has been missing.

You've definitely stumbled on an opportunity here. With all the investor money pouring into mobile software companies, someone who could actually bring skill and a true work-ethic to this business of pan-platform mobile app development should be able to make a killing.

Once in a great while someone comes along and shows an entire industry that they were are it all wrong. The rest of the time, however, it's just someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

[HabsFan9860]

So, the 99% of mobile developers out there who do not develop for BB10 lack skill or are just plain lazy. That's quite an indictment of a major industry that has change the way that most people use technology. And I thought these people knew what they were doing. Thankfully, I have come to the Crackberry forums to learn the truth about what the mobile software development industry has been missing.

You've definitely stumbled on an opportunity here. With all the investor money pouring into mobile software companies, someone who could actually bring skill and a true work-ethic to this business of pan-platform mobile app development should be able to make a killing.

Once in a great while someone comes along and shows an entire industry that they were doing it all wrong. The rest of the time, however, it's just someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

...you know, I'm not trying to say or be as you suggest in your reply...but in my line of work I see what has happened to a lot of business in NA...and the attitude that I mentioned (or at least similar ones) is what has...or at least started it...brought down the manufacturing might that we enjoyed in Canada/the US...why do things (that benefit the consumer in the end, and we are ALL the consumer) when we can just look out for ourselves (in this particular instance the developer)...and yes I am saying it is being done wrong, how can I back up such a bold statement?...with all the business that is starting to, slowly of course...come back to NA as they are starting to figure out that the short sighted quick gains are starting to show the serious flaws...the big problem that is slowing things down is that all the talent has dried up or moved elsewhere...now the base has to be retrained and rebuilt...sure it looks all fine and dandy now (back to the particular field we started out in), but as I stated...why be tied up in just two expertise?...what happens if just one starts to hurt?...scoff if you like, but BlackBerry thought like this once...then you have just taken a serious hit to 50% of your bottom line...like I mentioned, my line of work can be paralleled...product is different, but the model is about the same...I (and I'm not the only one) have been working with our system for 15 years and have never been in decline...I have seen many come and go...and they have always wanted to back the 'big guys' as they saw it as quick bigger money...I'm not saying developing for iOS and Android is a bad thing to do...I'm saying throwing all you have into one or two isn't always the smartest thing to do...and if you ever develop a reputation that you're more interested in your end than the people you provide a product or service for you won't last...be as sarcastic as you like, I'm quite certain I will still be making hood money at what I do using the business model that I do, than most developers will as they are right now...

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[HabsFan9860]

So, the 99% of mobile developers out there who do not develop for BB10 lack skill or are just plain lazy. That's quite an indictment of a major industry that has change the way that most people use technology. And I thought these people knew what they were doing. Thankfully, I have come to the Crackberry forums to learn the truth about what the mobile software development industry has been missing.

You've definitely stumbled on an opportunity here. With all the investor money pouring into mobile software companies, someone who could actually bring skill and a true work-ethic to this business of pan-platform mobile app development should be able to make a killing.

Once in a great while someone comes along and shows an entire industry that they were are it all wrong. The rest of the time, however, it's just someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

...and I hate to break it to you, but the smartphone industry isn't as a 'major industry' as you think it it...is is one of the few 'industries' that has self promoted itself into 'importance'...Apple and Google pitching the idea day in and out that you 'need' them...if the world as a whole had to revert back to flip 'dumb' phones tomorrow it may stumble a step or two...but we would get along just fine...

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[app_Developer]

Again we have to make the distinction between small indy developers versus banks and other large companies. Many of the apps that people miss on BB10 are from large companies.
Where I work (large bank), most of our customers are in the US and Europe. Very, very few of our customers are on BB10. More than half of those who do use BB10 are actually in Canada, which is just not a major market for us.

We don't charge for our apps, that would be silly. So we choose platforms based on how many people are actually on them. Call us lazy or without skill, but we don't think it smart to spin up a team to support a platform that hardly any of our customers use. Developers don't exactly grow on trees, and so we owe it to our customers and shareholders to deploy our developers where we get the best ROI. Our best developers also want to be working on the apps with 20+ million users, not one that would get maybe 20k customers at best given the metrics we have.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[cribble2k]

Because it costs more money to develop for 4 platforms then it does to develop for 2.

Developers would not only have to code for Android and iOS, they'd need to also learn Windows and bb10. Gets expensive.

Posted via CrackBerry App

[Tre Lawrence]

LOL at Google and Apple "pitching" the idea of apps.

LOL.

Long before mobile devices were a gleam in either of their eyes, apps had a place in the mobile world. Anyone remember when BBRY had the better ecosystem? Maybe we should blame BBRY (and Palm et al.) for pitching the dastardly idea of extended functionality mobile devices.

I think Apple simply figured out what BlackBerry had already figured out (but not perfected): a mobile platform need not have the perfect, all-encompassing built-in functionality if it can somehow encourage some of the best third-party software programmers (aka "lazy" in this thread) to give users choice. Platform profits, developers profit, users profit.

Google came along at the right time with the best built-in suite and did the same, even allowing third-party developers raise the bar on its own apps.

I wonder why some tend to think developers are immune to the very same economic pressures the rest of the world face. If making apps for every platform really had ROI, we'd all do it.

It flies in the face of logic.

[HabsFan9860]

Again we have to make the distinction between small indy developers versus banks and other large companies. Many of the apps that people miss on BB10 are from large companies.
Where I work (large bank), most of our customers are in the US and Europe. Very, very few of our customers are on BB10. More than half of those who do use BB10 are actually in Canada, which is just not a major market for us.

We don't charge for our apps, that would be silly. So we choose platforms based on how many people are actually on them. Call us lazy or without skill, but we don't think it smart to spin up a team to support a platform that hardly any of our customers use. Developers don't exactly grow on trees, and so we owe it to our customers and shareholders to deploy our developers where we get the best ROI. Our best developers also want to be working on the apps with 20+ million users, not one that would get maybe 20k customers at best given the metrics we have.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

...but there is always a way...perhaps a group of developers form a 'contractor' layout and just hire themselves out to organizations that don't want to bother...I'm sure if the price is right, this sort of thing would work out...it would a different argument if BlackBerry was actually shutting down...but any company that has been able to hold on, build arguably the best OS on the market...and still get new devices out the door is still worth working with...

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[Tre Lawrence]

I'm sure if the price is right, this sort of thing would work out.

Bingo.

[app_Developer]

...but there is always a way...perhaps a group of developers form a 'contractor' layout and just hire themselves out to organizations that don't want to bother...I'm sure if the price is right, this sort of thing would work out...it would a different argument if BlackBerry was actually shutting down...but any company that has been able to hold on, build arguably the best OS on the market...and still get new devices out the door is still worth working with...

Posted via CB10

If our customer makes a deposit into her account and there is some problem, Or if she tries to do a NFC purchase and it doesn't work, she isn't going to call the contractor. Nor should she.

Again, if you're a Canadian bank then it might make sense. But if you're a bank or any big business in Europe or the US it's really hard to justify even maintaining a security scan for a BB10 app. Even if a third party agreed to make a BB10 app for us for free, we would still have to monitor it, certify it, apply security patches as needed and support the users. For any large company, those costs add up very quickly, against which you have a tiny number of potential users.

We may support Windows phones in 2015, but even there we want to see 2-3 more quarters of sustained growth. That's with Microsoft offering us millions of dollars in support if we choose to go that route.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[HabsFan9860]

Because it costs more money to develop for 4 platforms then it does to develop for 2.

Developers would not only have to code for Android and iOS, they'd need to also learn Windows and bb10. Gets expensive.

Posted via CrackBerry App

...sure it does, and that's why I don't understand why in the mobile space, that developers do things for free...it's a product...and like any other product or service it costs money...software guys kind of shot themselves in the foot with the whole free bit...and I always find it amusing when I see those who whine about the $1.99 they had to pay for an app...especially when before we had mobile it was all on PC's and most software for those was at least two digits or more...yeah there was free stuff there too, but there was always something you had to give up for it...be it support or whatever...I remember the whole idea of the 'free software' bit back when...it was a nice idea, but the fundamental problem was no other industry wanted to do that...so it doesn't work...because you as a programmer have to pay to operate so...I, as I'm sure many others, would pay (and I don't mean $0.99) for solid apps...I have paid in the double digits for some that I have, and to me (for what the app does) think that developer may have under charged...now I am speaking of third party stuff...as OEM stuff can always be worked into the OEM some other way...

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[HabsFan9860]

LOL at Google and Apple "pitching" the idea of apps.

LOL.

Long before mobile devices were a gleam in either of their eyes, apps had a place in the mobile world. Anyone remember when BBRY had the better ecosystem? Maybe we should blame BBRY (and Palm et al.) for pitching the dastardly idea of extended functionality mobile devices.

I think Apple simply figured out what BlackBerry had already figured out (but not perfected): a mobile platform need not have the perfect, all-encompassing built-in functionality if it can somehow encourage some of the best third-party software programmers (aka "lazy" in this thread) to give users choice. Platform profits, developers profit, users profit.

Google came along at the right time with the best built-in suite and did the same, even allowing third-party developers raise the bar on its own apps.

I wonder why some tend to think developers are immune to the very same economic pressures the rest of the world face. If making apps for every platform really had ROI, we'd all do it.

It flies in the face of logic.

...I didn't say pitching apps...I said pitching the need for them to be in your lives (Apple and Google)...

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[CDM76]

Agreed android is such a waste of time on bb10

Swordsmanship & Western Martial Arts Channel C000C9AF6

I wonder if the app shows ( to the developers) as being run on an Android or being run on BlackBerry. For example a banking app. If the bank sees that the app is being run on a BlackBerry maybe they will create a BlackBerry App if enough ppl use the android version????

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[early2bed]

...sure it does, and that's why I don't understand why in the mobile space, that developers do things for free....

That's an easy one. I'm a small-time developer of apps for doctors. A few are paid but most are free ad-supported apps. Banner ads on apps used by doctors are pretty valuable to pharmaceutical companies, especially, if you can target specific types of doctors. Why do it for free? Because, a check arrives for a few thousand dollars every month from a mobile ad company.

Now, if you were me, would you spend your time trying to reach a few Blackberry users or would you spend your time trying to come up with more apps for doctors to use?

[Tre Lawrence]

...I didn't say pitching apps...I said pitching the need for them to be in your lives (Apple and Google)...

Posted via CB10

Got ya. To be fair, I concede there is a difference.

But I don't think Apple did much but figure out a way to benefit itself (first) and developers. Instead of trying to do it all, it got others to do it while monetizing the process.

Apps really self-propagate, IMHO. Basically, I can get the bits of code I want, from an open marketplace in which developers work hard to trump competitors, and not worry about the OS maker trying to be everything to everyone. Heck, I can make my own app if I really wanted to.

I don't think apps are the reason for Apple or Google's mobile success; I do think apps help keep their place.

[Tre Lawrence]

I wonder if the app shows ( to the developers) as being run on an Android or being run on BlackBerry. For example a banking app. If the bank sees that the app is being run on a BlackBerry maybe they will create a BlackBerry App if enough ppl use the android version????

Posted via CB10

I think it work in the reverse sometimes. The developer might be less inclined to make a native port, since we (BB users) hunt for apps ourselves.

Just theorizing though.

[Tre Lawrence]

That's an easy one. I'm a small-time developer of apps for doctors. A few are paid but most are free ad-supported apps. Banner ads on apps used by doctors are pretty valuable to pharmaceutical companies, especially, if you can target specific types of doctors. Why do it for free? Because, a check arrives for a few thousand dollars every month from a mobile ad company.

Now, if you were me, would you spend your time trying to reach a few Blackberry users or would you spend your time trying to come up with more apps for doctors to use?

Exactly.

There have even been instances where Google and MSFT have released or updated apps on competing platforms before their own.

It's simply business. Smart business.

[CDM76]

I think it work in the reverse sometimes. The developer might be less inclined to make a native port, since we (BB users) hunt for apps ourselves.

Just theorizing though.

It's always a possibility. But still curious if shows that it is running on bb10 or not.....

Posted via CB10

[Tre Lawrence]

It's always a possibility. But still curious if shows that it is running on bb10 or not.....

Posted via CB10

If I had to guess (and I am), I think it would show up as an Android device if using runtime.

App_developer would probably have a better idea.

[app_Developer]

If I had to guess (and I am), I think it would show up as an Android device if using runtime.

App_developer would probably have a better idea.

Yes, you can tell it is BB10 if you look at android.os.build or os.name. Most analytics packages report one or the other.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[HabsFan9860]

That's an easy one. I'm a small-time developer of apps for doctors. A few are paid but most are free ad-supported apps. Banner ads on apps used by doctors are pretty valuable to pharmaceutical companies, especially, if you can target specific types of doctors. Why do it for free? Because, a check arrives for a few thousand dollars every month from a mobile ad company.

Now, if you were me, would you spend your time trying to reach a few Blackberry users or would you spend your time trying to come up with more apps for doctors to use?

...well in an ad based app, you aren't really doing it for free, you still get paid...just from a different source...I was getting at the 'free movement' long before mobile that carried over to the mobile space...the idea behind it was a nice thought...but only they were doing it...and everything else costs money...so by going free, you lose money...first time I heard about it was back in MS's early days...now to tour other point, I do that very thing as we speak...I have been doing it for several years now...and it's one if the things that have set myself and others who work the same way apart...and one of the big reasons that I am still in the same line of work for almost 15 years while others with a quick gain mentality aren't...

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