[Yatezy]

Do apps still work properly (they don't crash) if they don't get the proper permissions? Since most android apps are meant to not have access to permissions they ask for, I wonder how well such apps behave.

If it's anything like XPrivacy it does allow the permission but it's gives it false information. So you could make up an IMEI number or false location coordinates to say you're in the Pacific ocean.

[MarsupilamiX]

What is Blackberry doing? It is called survival and target marketing. To survive you need to go down a path that will be profitable. In BB case it is not the consumer market. They have lost millions and written off billions of dollars try to complete with Apple and Sammy in devices... In essence BB has thrown in the towel competing with the "big boy".. it has chosen a market... enterprise and is forging ahead in that maket... Those in the consumer market seem to have missed the memo. BB will produce what enterprise wants... not what he shiny toy... bleeding edge crowd keeps clammoring for.... If you are so hung up on specs... you are obviously on the wrong platform... Maybe the new slider will be high end.. but remember... so was the passport at least in BB terms.... BB cash reserves are the only thing keeping it going for the next year or so... To waste it on high end consumer market which is Apple Sammy focus would probably be the end of the company...

Now honestly, with a bit of hindsight...
Do you really believe that BlackBerry was competing with the big boys, at any point since BB10s release?
They said themselves that they compete for the 3rd place.

If you think that anybody outside of CB, had the belief of the Z30 competing with a Samsung Galaxy S5, you are dreaming.

That's also why I can't hear the strawman anymore (the one you employed. That BlackBerry tried to compete in the consumer market and failed, thus the enterprise focus (with a prosumer focus in between. Tools not toys guys).

The Z30 was the worst smartphone in the market for the price bracket it was in (600$).
You literally couldn't buy a worse phone for 600$.

The Z10 was a beta device. If you bought that for 600$, you had to be an optimist (maybe even slightly stupid. That would be me though).

Those are their 2 "consumer" devices.
And them being not successful, was clear as day. Simply because the devices were completely uncompetitive for the price asked.
It's not that the competition was too good, or that BlackBerry was facing unfair practices.
It was simply arrogance.
BlackBerry thought that they can ask 600$ for devices that are worth 300$ in the marketplace, and they got burned. Simple as that.

This however says nothing at all, about the viability of a consumer focused strategy (Apple having 90% of the possible smartphone profits last quarter clearly show that the consumer market is where the money waits).
This just shows that people aren't stupid enough to buy a device with 3 year old specs and without apps, for 600$.

[MarsupilamiX]

My OnePlus One doesn't even need an app for that. It's app permission controls setup is amazing. You decide what permissions to allow or block and forget about it. Those changes are automatically applied to every app you install. Of course, if you prefer, you can also set the permissions for each app individually.

I look forward to all Android devices having a similar set up.

I know you love your OnePlus, and funnily enough especially Chinese manufacturers try to give their users the control over app permissions.

The thing with xposed and xprivacy is, that it feeds false data to the apps, thus never breaking them. How does the OnePlus handle that?

(I still wonder why that is. I know of some Chinese Androids which had editable permissions 500 days ago when they launched. Meanwhile the traditional Android manufacturer just annoy the crap out of me, with their unwillingness to let me edit app permissions. Same for the Android runtime on BB10.)

I know
my Z30 runs way better than my Z10 did , and it is because it has higher spec'd internals. Boots faster, runs smoother and cooler than the Z10 did. So specs do matter. If they didn't then why did they not just release the Passport with an MSM9860 and 2 GB of RAM? This place is starting to sound like 2008 again when people were saying it was fine for BlackBerry to use the same processor for three years straight on the BBOS devices..... Look how that turned out!

Posted via CB10

You don't remember the epic threads in the Z30 section, and people telling us how 720p was the best decision ever, because you can't see the difference anyhow and that it wastes battery?

Even though the quad core, 1080p Android flagships had even higher battery runtimes?

I also love the guys who forget that BB10 also has an Android runtime. So you are basically running 2 OS on 4 year old hardware, that would struggle with only one OS already.
Not even talking about some APKs needing horsepower.

What always astonished me the most though, was how people defended BlackBerry, even though BlackBerry was ripping them off.
When you pay 600 for a Note 4 and 600 for a Z30, something just doesn't add up (and I don't give an eff about BlackBerry's costs. If they can't afford a competitive device, they should just leave the market).

What are they supposed to say, really?
"We're desperately trying to make our handheld business profitable and continue to stay in the enterprise so we've released a low cost option for people that are weaned on Touch Screens to replace aging BBOS devices" audience?

But isn't that what everybody thinks? At least if they know that BlackBerry still exists?
Everybody knows how desperate BlackBerry is. From monetizing BB10 BBM users, over their endless changing of their target demographic?

I don't even think it's that. i think they're pushing fleet upgrades to corporations still running old BBOS devices. Classic and Leap seem intended mostly for that, and if some hardcores buy, then great.

They're trying to make the business profitable and (very important) limited risk to them.

I agree.
But what you and BlackBerry don't seem to get, is that there's no reason to go with the Leap, if I could just buy "real" smartphones for my staff.

For everyone outside of ultra regulated industries, the Leap is DOA.

Do apps still work properly (they don't crash) if they don't get the proper permissions? Since most android apps are meant to not have access to permissions they ask for, I wonder how well such apps behave.

It works perfectly under xposed with xprivacy, because it feeds fake data to the app.
You can even decide what the fake data will be.
From an empty adress book, to some GPS coordinates on a Saturn Moon.


I would never touch an Android phone as my personal device, without xposed and xprivacy on it.

[BB-JAM215]

I need a device which I could show off to my friends and stop their pitying on BlackBerry and with the current trend among BlackBerry devices I'm not sure that'll happen ever.

Blackberry made its name first in the enterprise world. Their phones became popular with consumers because in the early days of smart phones BlackBerry was well ahead of the competition. At this point they are down to less than one percent market share in the US. They simply can make money by building high end phones in small quantities.

As John Chen has made clear many times, BlackBerry is now focused on selling software and services to the enterprise market. If they happen to make a phone that Crackberry fans like then that's good. If your main requirement for a phone is something new to impress your friends, then you may have to look elsewhere.

[allsportsfan]

I know you love your OnePlus, and funnily enough especially Chinese manufacturers try to give their users the control over app permissions.

The thing with xposed and xprivacy is, that it feeds false data to the apps, thus never breaking them. How does the OnePlus handle that?

(I still wonder why that is. I know of some Chinese Androids which had editable permissions 500 days ago when they launched. Meanwhile the traditional Android manufacturer just annoy the crap out of me, with their unwillingness to let me edit app permissions. Same for the Android runtime on BB10.)



You don't remember the epic threads in the Z30 section, and people telling us how 720p was the best decision ever, because you can't see the difference anyhow and that it wastes battery?

Even though the quad core, 1080p Android flagships had even higher battery runtimes?

I also love the guys who forget that BB10 also has an Android runtime. So you are basically running 2 OS on 4 year old hardware, that would struggle with only one OS already.
Not even talking about some APKs needing horsepower.

What always astonished me the most though, was how people defended BlackBerry, even though BlackBerry was ripping them off.
When you pay 600 for a Note 4 and 600 for a Z30, something just doesn't add up (and I don't give an eff about BlackBerry's costs. If they can't afford a competitive device, they should just leave the market).



But isn't that what everybody thinks? At least if they know that BlackBerry still exists?
Everybody knows how desperate BlackBerry is. From monetizing BB10 BBM users, over their endless changing of their target demographic?




I agree.
But what you and BlackBerry don't seem to get, is that there's no reason to go with the Leap, if I could just buy "real" smartphones for my staff.

For everyone outside of ultra regulated industries, the Leap is DOA.



It works perfectly under xposed with xprivacy, because it feeds fake data to the app.
You can even decide what the fake data will be.
From an empty adress book, to some GPS coordinates on a Saturn Moon.


I would never touch an Android phone as my personal device, without xposed and xprivacy on it.

You seem like you're jaded by Blackberry. Sure they made some huge mistakes and basically were behind Apple by 4 years in developing a true touch OS, so Blackberry is only today mildly catching up. QNX is at the heart of BB10 OS which is a micro kernel based developed OS, which is like for the smartphone what Windows 7 64 bit OS was for the PC, you don't get the BSOD (blue screen of death) where if an app crashes you can shut it down and the rest of the apps would continue to run. Well for QNX vs. Android its basically similar except with Droid your phone starts to run very slowly if at all before the reset. iPhone well it's system isn't a multi-tasking OS either.

Blackberry is trying to survive building a software business to replace the OS7 devices BIS revenue they're losing every quarter. Whether we agree that's what their direction is. If their salesforce can sell multi-year deals for BES12 then throwing in phones for free will be a drop in the bucket for those large companies. CIO's hate changing software platforms and Blackberry has this one salvo left, the good thing is that Blackberry has been making improvements to BES quickly. Making it multi-platform is not an easy task and they've done it and John Chen has said that as long as phones are profitable he'll keep making them.

Specs mean little, just look at the HTC flagships, some great phones in the past and guess what HTC is still losing money on making and selling Droid phones. I think soon, if not already, people are getting phone fatigue and people won't be buying new phones every year or 2nd year, just like pc's, laptops both windows and apple so these phone hardware companies if that's all they're producing they're going to be in trouble financially.

I wouldn't be surprised if they finally go down to developing 2 phones eventually, a full touch or slider? and a variant of the classic for years to come to support the sales of BES and security software, that will be Blackberry's niche, just like lots of other software companies.

[lnichols]

You don't remember the epic threads in the Z30 section, and people telling us how 720p was the best decision ever, because you can't see the difference anyhow and that it wastes battery?

Even though the quad core, 1080p Android flagships had even higher battery runtimes?

I also love the guys who forget that BB10 also has an Android runtime. So you are basically running 2 OS on 4 year old hardware, that would struggle with only one OS already.
Not even talking about some APKs needing horsepower.

What always astonished me the most though, was how people defended BlackBerry, even though BlackBerry was ripping them off.
When you pay 600 for a Note 4 and 600 for a Z30, something just doesn't add up (and I don't give an eff about BlackBerry's costs. If they can't afford a competitive device, they should just leave the market).

Oh I do and it is part of the reason the phone didn't sell well when everyone else's flagship had 1080, even to the base didn't switch. Hard to justify an upgrade from a $500 to $600 Z10 with a 720 screen to a same cost Z30 with a lower PPI screen. I didn't make the jump until the sales at under $300 occurred. Pretty sad because it is a great phone. Even the Leap is too expensive for the specs it has now. That phone should be $200 max, and that is on the high side, off contract. BlackBerry still doesn't get it.

Posted via CB10

[lnichols]

As John Chen has made clear many times, BlackBerry is now focused on selling software and services to the enterprise market. If they happen to make a phone that Crackberry fans like then that's good. If your main requirement for a phone is something new to impress your friends, then you may have to look elsewhere.

So basically if you don't have a work issued BlackBerry 10 device you have wasted your time with BlackBerry if you bought the PlayBook And any BlackBerry 10 devices because BlackBerry changes it target market every conference call and they don't care about the customers that stuck with them through this catastrophic transition? That's basically what you are implying. I don't need a phone to impress my friends, if I did I would have left BlackBerry long ago because they have had the least impressive devices of any manufacturer in specs to price ratio since about 2008.

Posted via CB10

[phantomenix]

Posted via CB10

Exactly.

I notice secret eyes admiring me texting in the elevator.
All mirin' my Square device with some rows of buttons.

Its awesome!

[lovedaazn]

Specs matter? The iPhone has good specs???

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

Specs matter? The iPhone has good specs???

Posted via CB10

Don't go there, please...
The iPhone is one of the highest specced and best performing phones out there. The only low profile spec is the RAM.

Also, specs aren't only processors and megapixels.
The iPhone has the best app store, of all the phones out there, that's a spec too.
Apple also has the best customer service of any smartphone manufacturer. When you pay 700$ for an iPhone, that's also an included spec you get.

Simply put, BlackBerry's total package was just inferior to absolutely everything, you could get for 600$ (or slightly more).

[paulbbp]

I'm an ex Android user and new to BlackBerry. Not being a long time follower my opinion may be wrong. I think BlackBerry has done some polling with their major enterprise customers to see what they want. Most probably deploy the devices for secure communication and reading documents. The hardware seems sufficient for that.

I do think BlackBerry may be making a mistake by not making a nice consumer device for their fans.

I have an Att passport. Not a bad device but certainly doesn't wow me. The OS was buggy out of the box, my GPS wouldn't work correctly with maps. Had to load a leaked version to make it function properly.



Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

You seem like you're jaded by Blackberry. Sure they made some huge mistakes and basically were behind Apple by 4 years in developing a true touch OS, so Blackberry is only today mildly catching up. QNX is at the heart of BB10 OS which is a micro kernel based developed OS, which is like for the smartphone what Windows 7 64 bit OS was for the PC, you don't get the BSOD (blue screen of death) where if an app crashes you can shut it down and the rest of the apps would continue to run. Well for QNX vs. Android its basically similar except with Droid your phone starts to run very slowly if at all before the reset. iPhone well it's system isn't a multi-tasking OS either.

Blackberry is trying to survive building a software business to replace the OS7 devices BIS revenue they're losing every quarter. Whether we agree that's what their direction is. If their salesforce can sell multi-year deals for BES12 then throwing in phones for free will be a drop in the bucket for those large companies. CIO's hate changing software platforms and Blackberry has this one salvo left, the good thing is that Blackberry has been making improvements to BES quickly. Making it multi-platform is not an easy task and they've done it and John Chen has said that as long as phones are profitable he'll keep making them.

Specs mean little, just look at the HTC flagships, some great phones in the past and guess what HTC is still losing money on making and selling Droid phones. I think soon, if not already, people are getting phone fatigue and people won't be buying new phones every year or 2nd year, just like pc's, laptops both windows and apple so these phone hardware companies if that's all they're producing they're going to be in trouble financially.

I wouldn't be surprised if they finally go down to developing 2 phones eventually, a full touch or slider? and a variant of the classic for years to come to support the sales of BES and security software, that will be Blackberry's niche, just like lots of other software companies.

Jaded... A nice word to be honest.
I'm just tired of seeing the same exact mistakes since... Since an eternity.
That's all.

I still use a BlackBerry and I really hope that the handset division will survive, but I definitely do not believe in it anymore.
It's like BlackBerry actually tries to not be successful....

[anon(55900)]

Humm, good questions, my guess with the Leap is that it's exactly what they say it is. Targeted at a specific cost conscious buyer. It's priced for the person who will be buying the phone and not through the carrier. I will say, coming off a speced out Nexus 4 that specs don't make a great all around system. IMHO, the Z30 is far superior to GN4! Function, function, function is my mantra. Damn the specs.

[Aljean Thein]

They're making phones. What else are they doing?

Suffer Now & Live The Rest Of Your Life As A Champion

[JosevuN3]

They're assembling phone and services. Put outdated specs, give it more services, and price it highly. clear..

[fab Z10]

I think BlackBerry has already decided to leave the hardware business, neither Passport or Classic showed good level of sales and same will happen with Leap and Oslo, then maybe the Slider will be their last chance to survive but definitely in a nitch market only. With regards to software they will focus in enterprise solutions only, as you can see BBM is years behind WhatsApp and we do not see any important upgrade coming.

Posted via CB10

[birdman_38]

I think BlackBerry has already decided to leave the hardware business, neither Passport or Classic showed good level of sales and same will happen with Leap and Oslo, then maybe the Slider will be their last chance to survive but definitely in a niche market only.

The slider could never see the light of day.

[lnichols]

Specs matter? The iPhone has good specs???

Posted via CB10

Yes. They have a custom designed 64 bit SOC, first one on the smartphone market, and have always had superior GPU, Camera, etc. Since they aren't running their OS and are reliant in an Android runtime for apps they can get buy with less RAM.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

The slider could never see the light of day.

Don't say that. I don't want to hear about that possibility....

I will buy 10 of these sliders, if they ever release the phone.

[lnichols]

Jaded... A nice word to be honest.
I'm just tired of seeing the same exact mistakes since... Since an eternity.
That's all.

I still use a BlackBerry and I really hope that the handset division will survive, but I definitely do not believe in it anymore.
It's like BlackBerry actually tries to not be successful....

This sums up my opinion of BlackBerry too. Tired of watching them shoot themselves in the foot over and over and over again. They got about a million loyal people to buy PlayBook and abandoned it and lied to get another million sold. They got a lot of their customers invested in all touch, higher end devices, and have abandoned that form factor for over a year and a half, and have never really released a flagship all touch to date. Will the slider be enough, or on time for these customers? It doesn't sound appealing to me because I feel the PKB is unnecessary, as is a curved screen, and my concern is what is that PKB going compromise in the total build of the device: battery size, thickness, structural rigidity? Also is this device going to be released late summer late fall, or at the end of they year (which is too late for many)? I'll hang around and give them one last shot, but I'm doing a lot of work arounds and have dealt with a lot of incompetence on their part and hope that my patience and loyalty will be rewarded or I'll be done with them forever and steer people clear of them in my recommendations for technology.

Posted via CB10

[birdman_38]

Don't say that. I don't want to hear about that possibility....

I will buy 10 of these sliders, if they ever release the phone.

Honestly though. If the blue and white variants of the Classic can't make it to market, how can a new form factor of BB10 do so?

[MarsupilamiX]

Honestly though. If the blue and white variants of the Classic can't make it to market, how can a new form factor of BB10 do so?

Hmm, did you say something?

[AnimalPak200]

Jaded... A nice word to be honest.
I'm just tired of seeing the same exact mistakes since... Since an eternity.
That's all.

I still use a BlackBerry and I really hope that the handset division will survive, but I definitely do not believe in it anymore.
It's like BlackBerry actually tries to not be successful....

Huge + 1 here...

I really hope one day we find out this was someone's master plan to sink the company for some reason or the other.

Just so that I can finally close the book knowing there was some level of competence in that place.

[Superfly_FR]

I need a device which I could show off to my friends and stop their pitying on BlackBerry and with the current trend among BlackBerry devices I'm not sure that'll happen ever.

Posted via CB10

Buy an iPhone and get you social reward ?
Should it make you feel better, I'd applause.
Now, I read several comments where you tend to pretend that those devices are under-spec-ed and I must say that from all the devices I have (Z10,Q10,Z30,Passport - will test Leap Tuesday), once we went in the 10.2 releases, I never felt I'd need more power (ok, some more battery for the Z10 until 10.3 helped a lot).

[Superfly_FR]

Jaded... A nice word to be honest.
I'm just tired of seeing the same exact mistakes since... Since an eternity.
That's all.

I still use a BlackBerry and I really hope that the handset division will survive, but I definitely do not believe in it anymore.
It's like BlackBerry actually tries to not be successful....

The mistake was to believe BB10, a new born bottom to top system could address the consumers' market first.
Now, they have to deal with the situation - they succeed surviving despite very bad odds - and start over a solid and viable basis.
Chen's era devices CAN have some appeal to consumers (I mean, they have !) still, they're clearly not aimed to them at the first place (except Z3 ?).

Be patient and enjoy being different from the masses.