[early2bed]

It’s clear that Santa is no longer into cookies - he prefers Apples. It was a banner Christmas for the Apple, the company that started the mobile revolution with the introduction of the first iPhone in 2007. Seven years later, Apple accounted for 51% of the new device activations worldwide Flurry recognized in the week leading up to and including Christmas Day (December 19th - 25th). Samsung held the #2 position with 18% of new device activations, and Microsoft (Nokia) rounded out the top three with 5.8% share for mostly Lumia devices. After the top three manufacturers, the device market becomes increasingly fragmented with only Sony and LG commanding more than one percent share of new activations on Christmas Day. Up-and-comers Xiaomi, Huawei, and HTC all had less than one percent share on Christmas Day. One reason is surely their popularity in Asian markets where December 25th is not the biggest gift-giving day of the year.

To put this in perspective, for every Samsung devices that was activated, Apple activated 2.9 devices. For every Microsoft Lumia device activated, Apple activated 8.8 devices. While, the holidays in general and Christmas in particular are not the sole indicator of the smartphone market share and trends, it is safe to say that Apple’s newly released iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus have had a blockbuster holiday season, despite a lackluster holiday season for the consumer electronics industry.

This analysis is of app users as it measures what kind of new devices were activated by tracking the apps. This goes a long way towards explaining why app developers focus on iOS even though Android users probably outnumber them. And, why developers aren't going to be targeting Blackberry devices anytime soon.

http://www.flurry.com/blog/flurry-in...14#.VKGNgOADCA

[mnc76]

IBM made vast amounts of money from hardware as well. But much of the decision to buy the hardware was based on support and integration.

Posted via CB10

The point is that Apple makes pretty much ALL of its money from hardware sales -- 85% of Apple's revenue comes from hardware.




Posted from my awesome White Z30

[TGR1]

The point is that Apple makes pretty much ALL of its money from hardware sales -- 85% of Apple's revenue comes from hardware.

Posted from my awesome White Z30

Yes but the hardware relies heavily upon the Apple software to function (less so on the Macs). So while the revenue from hardware is clear, the impact of the underlying free software makes that conclusion not so clear-cut.

You could make a similar argument for BBRY. BBRY still makes a significant portion of its revenue from handsets IIRC. The Passport and Classic are unique among smartphones and deliberate design decisions by BBRY. Quality physical keyboards are their forte. So does that make BBRY a specialized hardware company? I don't think anyone would claim that.

IMO neither Apple nor BBRY are strictly fish or fowl at this time.

[mnc76]

Yes but the hardware relies heavily upon the Apple software to function (less so on the Macs). So while the revenue from hardware is clear, the impact of the underlying free software makes that conclusion not so clear-cut.

You could make a similar argument for BBRY. BBRY still makes a significant portion of its revenue from handsets IIRC. The Passport and Classic are unique among smartphones and deliberate design decisions by BBRY. Quality physical keyboards are their forte. So does that make BBRY a specialized hardware company? I don't think anyone would claim that.

IMO neither Apple nor BBRY are strictly fish or fowl at this time.

Sorry but we'll have to disagree here. It is almost universally acknowledged that Apple is hardware company who only provides software as a means of pushing more device sales.

In contrast, BlackBerry is attempting to transition into a software / services company that will continue to produce hardware but not be primarily reliant on hardware sales as a primary source of revenue.

Apple is primarily reliant on hardware sales and continues to follow this path by releasing new hardware products (such as the Apple Watch) in new categories. You may point to things like Apple Pay as evidence that Apple is pursuing services for their own sake, however -- even in the best case scenario -- Apple Pay is unlikely to make any noticeable uptick in their revenue. Apple Pay is -- as with all of Apple's other software and services -- about device lock-in for the purpose of selling more hardware.

http://iphone.appleinsider.com/artic...hone-ecosystem

(This article is a bit old, but the calculations are still correct)

Posted from my awesome White Z30

[TGR1]

Sorry but we'll have to disagree here. It is almost universally acknowledged that Apple is hardware company who only provides software as a means of pushing more device sales.

Universally? By whom? I see considerable disagreement out there, including from Apple employees themselves. I don't disagree that hardware design is critical to Apple as the end product but calling them a hardware company that only provides software tangentially is a gross over-simplification. Apple did not buy NeXT for its hardware. Apple designs and optimizes industry-leading custom chips. Apple built out a huge online store with arguably the largest database of purchasing customers out there. Software and hardware and services are so intrinsically entwined that you can't meaningfully separate them unless licensing comes back, which will happen in a cold day in hell. The company's value absolutely lies in the synergy of the various pieces.

In contrast, BlackBerry is attempting to transition into a software / services company that will continue to produce hardware but not be primarily reliant on hardware sales as a primary source of revenue.

Apple is primarily reliant on hardware sales and continues to follow this path by releasing new hardware products (such as the Apple Watch) in new categories. You may point to things like Apple Pay as evidence that Apple is pursuing services for their own sake, however -- even in the best case scenario -- Apple Pay is unlikely to make any noticeable uptick in their revenue. Apple Pay is -- as with all of Apple's other software and services -- about device lock-in for the purpose of selling more hardware.

Apple's 'iWallet' payments seen as unlikely to earn much money, but will lock in users to iPhone ecosystem

(This article is a bit old, but the calculations are still correct)

Posted from my awesome White Z30

That is the beauty when you have the software and services in place to start tacking on more hardware lines that potentially will pick up as existing products mature and level off. You can see it clearly in the progression of the iPod, iPhone, iPad, and in how the software also does some nifty tie ins with the Macs. Locking users into their ecosystem by buying hardware? Absolutely. But a huge part of that is having competent software and services to make it work well.

There is no other provider of high volume consumer electronic products that can make the margins on hardware that Apple does. If you cannot see the added value of the software and services which Apple provides that allows them to command such margins, then there is indeed no more to be said.

Microsoft recognizes that IMO, which is why they are pouring the resources to make integrated systems with their own hardware. Same with Google. Samsung too, leveraging their reach into all the other consumer electronics they produce. The main difference is none have the recipe quite right. IMO RIM had it going this way once upon a time as well.

[mnc76]

There is no other provider of high volume consumer electronic products that can make the margins on hardware that Apple does. If you cannot see the added value of the software and services which Apple provides that allows them to command such margins, then there is indeed no more to be said.

I'm not sure if you're responding to me despite the fact you quoted me.

Never have I ever said, or have I ever even implied that there is no value for a company to lock-in it's customers with a closed and restrictive software ecosystem, or for it to have high margins.

That is not at all what was being discussed. We were discussing whether Apple is primarily a hardware company. I think it's quite clear that they are. I think it is crystal clear that all their software and services are a means to an end -- that end being to sell hardware. Other users don't think it is so black-and-white. We will have to agree to disagree.

Posted from my awesome White Z30

[CarlosTavares]

Android shipments lead the global smartphone market, with 283 million units shipped and over 84% of the market share in the third quarter of 2014...

iOS continues to drop in market share, down to just 11.7% from 12.8% in the same quarter last year, representing the growing shift of demand toward low-cost smartphones. The launch of the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus at the very end of the third quarter means that the bump in shipments will be reflected fully in the fourth quarter holiday season.



So we can agree on the first point, but the second point is simply factually incorrect -- not just the opinion of some 'crazy BlackBerry diehards', but backed up with hard data (even if your friends and colleagues don't believe it).

Posted from my awesome White Z30[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure Apple keeps selling more Iphones every year but why does that even matter.

These forums are so ridiculously biased for no other reason than to just talk about how great BlackBerry is. Don't get me wrong...I love my Z10. It's been the best phone I have ever owned, in many ways, but what is the obsession with creating forums that bash apple to pieces?

Here's a suggestion: take any of these posts and start reading them out loud. As many as you can, and you'll realize the idiocy of loyal consumerism.

I'm more of the mind set that competition is good and that no phone is perfect and the reality of the landscape today is that the IPhone 6 was a great release, the HTC 1 M8 is beautiful , the LG G3 is awesome, the One plus One is trendy as hell, Motorola can make phones again and the Passport had brought BlackBerry back to the conversation. Let's not skip the foreplay and assume BlackBerry going to be amazing again. There's a long way to go and I'll be cheering the whole way.

But please, next time spare me the evidently obvious numerical research you like to Google on how Android keeps gaining market share. Everybody has known that since Gingerbread.



Posted via CB10

[mnc76]

I'm pretty sure Apple keeps selling more Iphones every year but why does that even matter.

These forums are so ridiculously biased for no other reason than to just talk about how great BlackBerry is. Don't get me wrong...I love my Z10. It's been the best phone I have ever owned, in many ways, but what is the obsession with creating forums that bash apple to pieces?

Here's a suggestion: take any of these posts and start reading them out loud. As many as you can, and you'll realize the idiocy of loyal consumerism.

I'm more of the mind set that competition is good and that no phone is perfect and the reality of the landscape today is that the IPhone 6 was a great release, the HTC 1 M8 is beautiful , the LG G3 is awesome, the One plus One is trendy as hell, Motorola can make phones again and the Passport had brought BlackBerry back to the conversation. Let's not skip the foreplay and assume BlackBerry going to be amazing again. There's a long way to go and I'll be cheering the whole way.

But please, next time spare me the evidently obvious numerical research you like to Google on how Android keeps gaining market share. Everybody has known that since Gingerbread.



Posted via CB10

You said that "everyone can agree iOS is not losing market share". You were dead wrong, and this was pointed out to you with hard, undeniable facts.

Now you have the gaul to return to say that you already knew this?? If you already knew this, then why did you say the exact opposite?

And then -- after being proven wrong and failing at your attempt to backtrack -- you go on to say that everyone here is essentially a biased id1ot??

With one hand, if I hadn't provided a link to the data, you would have dismissed me as some "biased fanboy", but with the other hand you dismiss the data as "obvious numerical research" that "everyone" supposedly already knows (except you of course, based on your first post).

Posted from my awesome White Z30

[TGR1]

I'm not sure if you're responding to me despite the fact you quoted me.

Never have I ever said, or have I ever even implied that there is no value for a company to lock-in it's customers with a closed and restrictive software ecosystem, or for it to have high margins.

That is not at all what was being discussed. We were discussing whether Apple is primarily a hardware company. I think it's quite clear that they are. I think it is crystal clear that all their software and services are a means to an end -- that end being to sell hardware. Other users don't think it is so black-and-white. We will have to agree to disagree.

Posted from my awesome White Z30

I absolutely was replying to you and I know exactly what the discussion was about: your contention that Apple is primarily a hardware company. My counterpoint is that I disagree because one cannot quantitatively decouple hardware/software/services in this case. Apple devotes huge resources yearly to developers conferences for their software. I believe even they would object to bring considered primarily hardware.

[BBjer]

... .. ... ... ,, <--almost passed out using commas. Back to periods... .... ... ... ... .. ... ... ......

Posted via CB10

[Kattz]

I don't think that BlackBerry is going to overtake Apple anytime soon but if Apple doesn't smarten up they may have a good chance to take some business away from them.

Apple quality has gone downhill over the last few years. I'm not including "Bendgate" because that's just nonsense.

Every update for my iPad Mini Retina has borked it worse than the last one. IOS 8 has been a disaster all around. It left the phones unable to make calls at one point.

People don't have time for this. I'm very tech literate and

[Kattz]

Accidentally hit post there.

I'm tech literate and I was really frustrated.

If BlackBerry continues down the road that they are on now, I think that they have a good chance to take back the business customers.

Android is not suitable for business either. It's just a matter of time before hackers start targeting Androids and IOS as a way into the corporate network. Once the legal bills start coming in, BYOD is not going to be such a bargain.

BlackBerry doesn't need to take down Apple. They just need to bring the business users back into the fold.

[jmr1015]

I absolutely was replying to you and I know exactly what the discussion was about: your contention that Apple is primarily a hardware company. My counterpoint is that I disagree because one cannot quantitatively decouple hardware/software/services in this case. Apple devotes huge resources yearly to developers conferences for their software. I believe even they would object to bring considered primarily hardware.

"People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware." - Alan Kay

"Apple views itself as a software company." - Steve Jobs

[ArcPlug]

I absolutely was replying to you and I know exactly what the discussion was about: your contention that Apple is primarily a hardware company. My counterpoint is that I disagree because one cannot quantitatively decouple hardware/software/services in this case. Apple devotes huge resources yearly to developers conferences for their software. I believe even they would object to bring considered primarily hardware.

I think you're wrong on this point and have to agree with MNC76. Apple is absolutely a hardware company. If they don't sell hardware, what are they going to sell? I can't think of anything ATM, that they sell that's not attached to their own hardware. If all their hardware sales suddenly were to free fall, the Apple empire would implode. BlackBerry, OTOH, is turning into a software company. If the hardware doesn't make money, they will kill it and still have a growing revenue stream in BES, QNX, possibly BBM, etc. If apple stops selling hardware today, nobody will buy anything from them.

[CherokeeMarty]

And you have documents to prove this? - I would be careful with my choice of words on a public forum as you never know who could end up suing you. LOL

How about Wired magazine? Aug. 6, 1997: Apple Rescued ? by Microsoft | WIRED

[thymaster]

This is a good point and a scary thought. Apple is so tied up with their hardware that if their iPhone sales drop it could mean dooms day for them. All other services like iTunes and the App Store are still tied to their iPhones and Mac computers. The only exempted service outside their hardware ecosystem is the availability of the iTune store for Windows computer. It's not enough for them to survive outside the iOS and OSX ecosystem.

I think you're wrong on this point and have to agree with MNC76. Apple is absolutely a hardware company. If they don't sell hardware, what are they going to sell? I can't think of anything ATM, that they sell that's not attached to their own hardware. If all their hardware sales suddenly were to free fall, the Apple empire would implode. BlackBerry, OTOH, is turning into a software company. If the hardware doesn't make money, they will kill it and still have a growing revenue stream in BES, QNX, possibly BBM, etc. If apple stops selling hardware today, nobody will buy anything from them.

[TheBirdDog]

This is a good point and a scary thought. Apple is so tied up with their hardware that if their iPhone sales drop it could mean dooms day for them. All other services like iTunes and the App Store are still tied to their iPhones and Mac computers. The only exempted service outside their hardware ecosystem is the availability of the iTune store for Windows computer. It's not enough for them to survive outside the iOS and OSX ecosystem.

iTunes is most definitely enough for the company to survive. It's enough for several counties to survive off of. I think with the number of Apple products sold (Macbooks, iPods, iPads, iPhones) and I'm sure at least 95 percent of these customers being iTunes subscribers, there is no way to say that they are primarily hardware or software driven. iTunes is a HUGE part of their company. They have a pretty big monopoly on the music industry. They have so much money now it's not even funny. U2 is the richest band in the world. And iTunes owns them.

Posted via my BlackBerry Passport

[early2bed]

This is a good point and a scary thought. Apple is so tied up with their hardware that if their iPhone sales drop it could mean dooms day for them.

And yet it gives reassuring comfort to Apple users that the company is heavily invested in their products and will pretty much devote all of its resources to getting it right. Even if the Apple Watch is a flop do you think they will drop it? While Blackberry, on the other hand, simply dropped their tablet when it didn't work out and will probably drop smartphones altogether if they can't make a profit in the next year or so.

[tchocky77]

I don't think it's so much that apple will lose sales and all the money, but just that they look to be following the path of BlackBerry with little innovation. How many years did it take them to meet the request of bigger screens, and then they bend?

The main issue with BlackBerry was they didn't change when they needed to. Apple did announce a wearable, but other than that there is no real innovation, just small increases. They did go 64 bit, but I honestly think that that was just to say that they did something new because they hadn't done anything new in a while.

The products are great, don't get me wrong, but people will stop paying premiums every year for small increases that aren't needed. I already see my own family upgrading iphones every two or three years instead of every single time.

Posted via CB10

I don't think very many people buy a new iPhone "every year."

They wait two or even three years. But so far, most of them do eventually buy another iPhone. Apple's customer retention is unheard of.

Unheard of by anyone other than Apple, anyway.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[eyesopen1111]

I don't think very many people buy a new iPhone "every year."

They wait two or even three years. But so far, most of them do eventually buy another iPhone. Apple's customer retention is unheard of.

Unheard of by anyone other than Apple, anyway.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

I agree that Apple's retention rate is high, but I think (1) that people also are in the habit of replacing iPhones fairly frequently and (2) that the rate of replacement is getting faster all the time.

For instance, with the T-Mobile Jump plan (and similar plans with other carriers), you can get a new phone every six months, so fewer people are keeping a smartphone around for the old two-year period. Having that upgrade is like having money burning a hole in your pocket, so companies are smart to keep the new models rolling out fast.

Plus, if the rumors are true that Apple may launch two rounds of iPhone this year, I'm sure people would buy them up like they normally do. And yeah, even without that, there are many iPhone customers who'll buy a new iPhone every time one comes out, just like some BlackBerry customers do. I just don't see too much to stop Apple from selling more and more iPhones.

[Elephant_Canyon]

I agree that Apple's retention rate is high, but I think (1) that people also are in the habit of replacing iPhones fairly frequently and (2) that the rate of replacement is getting faster all the time.

For instance, with the T-Mobile Jump plan (and similar plans with other carriers), you can get a new phone every six months, so fewer people are keeping a smartphone around for the old two-year period. Having that upgrade is like having money burning a hole in your pocket, so companies are smart to keep the new models rolling out fast.

Plus, if the rumors are true that Apple may launch two rounds of iPhone this year, I'm sure people would buy them up like they normally do. And yeah, even without that, there are many iPhone customers who'll buy a new iPhone every time one comes out, just like some BlackBerry customers do. I just don't see too much to stop Apple from selling more and more iPhones.

I see a lot of speculation in this post, but no actual evidence to back it up. Care to provide a link to some actual numbers?

[early2bed]

One of the reasons why the iPhone upgrade rate is so high in the US is that iPhones good residual value and are easy to resell - even Blackberry will buy it from you. On Gazelle which is super simple, you still get $185 for an unlocked iPhone 5s 16GB in good condition (+5% if you take an Amazon Gift Card). If you have an available upgrade for $199 why wouldn't you upgrade to the iPhone 6?

I'm guessing that most of these devices are sold overseas where iPhones cost more. The rising dollar and falling currency values in many of these countries probably means that there will continue to be a good business in used iPhones for the foreseeable future. While there is always cheaper competition in every market, the value of the brand and the strength of the app ecosystem means that there are always people who want the iPhone.

[ricocan]

These innovations will, like most have in the past, start becoming real within the enterprise environment and once adapted there will enter the consumer market. This cycle has been true of almost every leap forward in tech since the invention of the telephone. Computers and cell phones to smart phones, and I'm sure a couple of others all were business tools before they were consumer products. If I were to predict or want to be apart of the next wave of must haves I would be building it for enterprises. BBRY is at least back there playing in the right place.

Posted via CB10

[early2bed]

These innovations will, like most have in the past, start becoming real within the enterprise environment and once adapted there will enter the consumer market. This cycle has been true of almost every leap forward in tech since the invention of the telephone.

Perhaps, but transition to consumer technology seems to be lighting fast, now, and the consumer technology companies eventually dominate the market. Do you think the internet of things, virtual reality, drones, wearables, self-driving cars are going to be enterprise-only for any length of time?

[Fistmaster]

Accidentally hit post there.

I'm tech literate and I was really frustrated.

If BlackBerry continues down the road that they are on now, I think that they have a good chance to take back the business customers.

Android is not suitable for business either. It's just a matter of time before hackers start targeting Androids and IOS as a way into the corporate network. Once the legal bills start coming in, BYOD is not going to be such a bargain.

BlackBerry doesn't need to take down Apple. They just need to bring the business users back into the fold.

Interesting view!

I mean think about it for a minute.

If hackers decide to hack ios and Android in huge big time with dangerous results, people will get sensitive about a forgotten thing:
Security!

That's were media is asking many questions and many consider a BlackBerry again! Plain and simple.

Would to feel that.


Posted via CB10