[ssbtech]

If big apps like Skype and others won't come forward with BB10 apps, perhaps BlackBerry needs to bite the bullet and develop their own versions under licence?

It's nice having the ability to run Android apps, but it's also a cop out and a crap shoot.

At this rate we're never going to get anywhere near the same number and quality of apps the other platforms have.

[Branta]

This doesn't solve the problem. Many of the app owners have *blocked* development even when offered cash incentives and deployment of programmers from BlackBerry/RIM. They DO NOT WANT a native BB version to exist.

[serbanescu]

Platform fragmentation is costly for app developers - I guess most would be happy to work on a single platform, and if offered the choice that would be Apple's: small device portfolio & huge market. Nevertheless, BlackBerry should make whatever possible to bring in as many popular apps as it can. If the ball starts rolling, the others will follow suit in order not to lose a new market to competitors.

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Calorie Monitor Pro for Z10, Q10, Q5 and PlayBook

[hannibalmoot]

This is exactly what I thought they should do as well. When Google didn't provide Microsoft WP8 with a YouTube app, Microsoft built their own. Sure Google didn't like it but eventually they ended up working with MS on it.

Personally, I don't find the apps to be a problem, but if it really is what's holding consumers back then BB should be doing WHATEVER it takes to get these key apps. If it means throwing big bucks at it, then DO IT. Get aggressive.

[Branta]

Personally, I don't find the apps to be a problem, but if it really is what's holding consumers back then BB should be doing WHATEVER it takes to get these key apps. If it means throwing big bucks at it, then DO IT. Get aggressive.

Would you care to suggest how much they should be prepared to spend for some of the apps demanded by users? Then consider it as the distributed $$ per handset sold...

In recent months we have seen the "RIM/BB pay for the apps we want" demand for a number of so called flagship applications. Unfortunately nobody can agree which apps are "must have or don't even bother releasing the phone" but one thing is certain - the majority of potential buyers would never be able to use the most frequently demanded (Skype, Netflix) because they are geographically limited or blocked (firewalled or data speed/cost) by most networks around the world. That would leave a few thousand US bought devices sharing a potential cost running into $$ hundreds of millions. Let's see... $100m / 500,000 phones (wildly optimistic sales expected) would share about $200 extra per phone, plus the markup and sales taxes applied by the resellers.

[OldSkoolVWLover]

Platform fragmentation is costly for app developers - I guess most would be happy to work on a single platform, and if offered the choice that would be Apple's: small device portfolio & huge market. Nevertheless, BlackBerry should make whatever possible to bring in as many popular apps as it can. If the ball starts rolling, the others will follow suit in order not to lose a new market to competitors.

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Calorie Monitor Pro for Z10, Q10, Q5 and PlayBook

One of the things that answered my Z vs Q internal debate, fragmentation, I've had phones with nonstandard screen size, and many developers wouldn't touch em, unless they were fans of the OS. Your point about iOS is spot on sadly...

Branta made a great point about regional issues for the "must have" apps people always use to put down another platform. BB is huge internationally, and if available (most aren't available at all) you then have to secure those other licenses as well.

[mikeo007]

This doesn't solve the problem. Many of the app owners have *blocked* development even when offered cash incentives and deployment of programmers from BlackBerry/RIM. They DO NOT WANT a native BB version to exist.

I haven't heard of anyone BLOCKING development because they don't want a BB version of their app to exist. The only example I've seen of support being offered is Netflix, who did not accept, but we have no clue what their reason or motivation is. And I'm certain it's not simply because they don't want a BB version to exist...

[mikeo007]

OP, take a look at the apps BB has already developed in-house. This is NOT what BB users want. Look at the reviews of the BB developed Facebook app...they're abysmal. The app is sub-par and simply not up to the quality that users expect. Building a whole bunch of sub-par apps would only be a waste of BB's time.

[systemvolker]

Lets see when api gets out of the jungle.

Posted via CB10

[hannibalmoot]

Would you care to suggest how much they should be prepared to spend for some of the apps demanded by users? Then consider it as the distributed $$ per handset sold...

If the perception of potential phone buyers is that BB is no good because it doesn't have (your app name here) and let's say it's 6 or 8 or 10 apps that get named over and over, I'd sink whatever it took to get those apps. You can't base it on the number of handsets in circulation. This is more of a marketing and perception problem. Basically, how many sales have been lost and how much bad press mileage has been had just from the perception that there are no apps? I could care less if nobody used the apps after they were made if all it did was generate a few million more sales of phones.

I'd venture to say if BB spent the same they did on the Super Bowl ad towards getting these apps, they would have a far greater return on investment. Call it advertising instead of trying to cost it out as development.

[DenverRalphy]

When Google didn't provide Microsoft WP8 with a YouTube app, Microsoft built their own. Sure Google didn't like it but eventually they ended up working with MS on it.

That's not what happened at all. Anybody is free to develop a YouTube app. And Google never refused to build an app for WP8. Nor did Google care one bit about MS building their own.

The point of contention was that MS wanted access to metadata from YouTube that they had no right to, and as well wanted to be able to provide YouTube content ad free (and/or redirect ad revenue from Google to themselves which is why they wanted the metadata) from their own homebuilt app. Google told MS to stuff it, and MS finally gave in after some bickering.


SwiftKeyed/Flowed via TapaTalk 4 beta.

[hannibalmoot]

That's not what happened at all. Anybody is free to develop a YouTube app. And Google never refused to build an app for WP8. Nor did Google care one bit about MS building their own.

The point of contention was that MS wanted access to metadata from YouTube that they had no right to, and as well wanted to be able to provide YouTube content ad free (and our redirect add revenue from Google to themselves) from their own homebuilt app. Google told MS to stuff it, and MS finally gave in after some bickering.


SwiftKeyed/Flowed via TapaTalk 4 beta.

That makes sense. Thank you for clarifying. That's the problem with believing everything you read..the stuff I read was not as clear as that explanation. Same thing that happens with articles on BB. Always have to dig deeper to find the real story.

[RubberChicken76]

I haven't heard of anyone BLOCKING development because they don't want a BB version of their app to exist. The only example I've seen of support being offered is Netflix, who did not accept, but we have no clue what their reason or motivation is. And I'm certain it's not simply because they don't want a BB version to exist...

I bet the issue with that is support and/or streaming costs on an ongoing basis due to their business model. If netflix sold by title or access by device, you'd be more likely to see Netflix on BlackBerry than under their current "one subscription gets all, on multiple devices" model.

[samab]

I haven't heard of anyone BLOCKING development because they don't want a BB version of their app to exist. The only example I've seen of support being offered is Netflix, who did not accept, but we have no clue what their reason or motivation is. And I'm certain it's not simply because they don't want a BB version to exist...

Anyone can do their own netflix app --- Texas Instruments wrote their own netflix apps to be certified.

The perfect example is the Google stuff like google play app store, gmail and google maps --- Amazon cannot fork Android to make Kindle Fire and offer Google Play, Gmail or Google Maps at the same time. Even though BB10 has an Android runtime, RIM is prevented from making any of the Google apps.

[mikeo007]

I bet the issue with that is support and/or streaming costs on an ongoing basis due to their business model. If netflix sold by title or access by device, you'd be more likely to see Netflix on BlackBerry than under their current "one subscription gets all, on multiple devices" model.

Absolutely. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it was something even beyond Netflix's control and had more to do with licensing than anything else. In the end, it doesn't make business sense for them to be on BB10 at this point. We can guess all day as to the reasoning, but they've made it clear that there's no benefit to them being on the platform at this point.

These are businesses people. It's not a schoolyard where the kids won't let that one wired guy play basketball. These are businesses, driven by one single goal: profit.

[RubberChicken76]

OP, take a look at the apps BB has already developed in-house. This is NOT what BB users want. Look at the reviews of the BB developed Facebook app...they're abysmal. The app is sub-par

Must confess, I don't get the ire devoted towards those apps on BlackBerry 10. Use them all the time and they do what I need. Also use them on iOS and Android. With the exception of chat (which I occasionally miss), I go between them interchangeably and don't really notice a difference. Perhaps power users have a different experience but you'd swear the apps take and send naked photos of you without you knowing, by the way some describe them

[RubberChicken76]

Anyone can do their own netflix app --- Texas Instruments wrote their own netflix apps to be certified.

That last part is the sticking point. Anyone really believe RIM doesn't have a Netflix prototype or proof of concept (or several) that's been done to show how it would work? Seriously?!

[DenverRalphy]

Anyone can do their own netflix app --- Texas Instruments wrote their own netflix apps to be certified.

No... Nobody can make a Netflix app beyond the ability to modify their home delivery queue. No API exists for 3rd party developers to stream content.

The perfect example is the Google stuff like google play app store, gmail and google maps --- Amazon cannot fork Android to make Kindle Fire and offer Google Play, Gmail or Google Maps at the same time. Even though BB10 has an Android runtime, RIM is prevented from making any of the Google apps.

Neither RIM/BBRY nor Amazon is blocked from using Google Play. Both RIM/BBRY and Amazon actively chose not to support Google Play simply because they both want their customers to purchase from their respective app stores to collect app revenue. Google would be more than happy to see their users purchase through the Play Store.

Case in point... You actually can use the Play Store on Amazon devices. It just takes a bit of work.

SwiftKeyed/Flowed via TapaTalk 4 beta.

[samab]

That last part is the sticking point. Anyone really believe RIM doesn't have a Netflix prototype or proof of concept (or several) that's been done to show how it would work? Seriously?!

The DRM has to be certified by the studio --- that's the time consuming part. The way TI did their android netflix app is to boot into a second (and secure) OS.

No... Nobody can make a Netflix app beyond the ability to modify their home delivery queue. No API exists for 3rd party developers to stream content.


Neither RIM/BBRY nor Amazon is blocked from using Google Play. Both RIM/BBRY and Amazon actively chose not to support Google Play simply because they both want their customers to purchase from their respective app stores to collect app revenue. Google would be more than happy to see their users purchase through the Play Store.

Case in point... You actually can use the Play Store on Amazon devices. It just takes a bit of work.

SwiftKeyed/Flowed via TapaTalk 4 beta.

Amazon cannot fork Android and use Google Play at the same time. It is blocked by Google Play's proprietary license. There is no technical block --- only a licensing block.

You can fork Android any way you want. But if you fork Android OS, you can't call your hardware Android. And if you can't call yourself Android, you cannot use the Android app store.

http://www.androidcentral.com/acer-f...nce-here-s-why

[OldSkoolVWLover]

Absolutely. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it was something even beyond Netflix's control and had more to do with licensing than anything else. In the end, it doesn't make business sense for them to be on BB10 at this point. We can guess all day as to the reasoning, but they've made it clear that there's no benefit to them being on the platform at this point.

Must also remember, they know there is no benefit because those that want a Netflix app that bad already are paying for a subscription... they aren't making any extra coin and losing very little by not coming to BB.