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  1. leafs123's Avatar
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    Default Thorsten Heins expects a 3:1 sales ratio of touch vs. qwerty BB10 phones.

    On Bloomberg. What do you guys think?

    The State of RIM: One-On-One With the CEO: Video - Bloomberg
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  2. ichat's Avatar
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    Default Thorsten Heins expects a 3:1 sales ratio of touch vs. qwerty BB10 phones.

    I think he's good with that statistic. Its because, bb10 is mostly aiming at outside smartphone users; people on iphone and android. They are familiar with touchscreen so I guess that's good whilst the qwerty would be for the people that are recurring users or business users.



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  3. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    I'd love to know the forecast plans for service revenues. The 3-1 number sounds ambitious to me. I get it in that it somewhat corresponds to overall device trends these days, but I struggle with it in terms of RIM suddenly moving to that mix. Not scientific, but I think I see thirty 9900 phones for every one Torch 9850 or Curve touch. In fact, I think I even see the PlayBook in the wild more than a touch only BlackBerry smartphone.

    On the apps, at least the host mentioned apps already on QNX (Facebook and Angry Birds)
    ------------------------------------
    I like how BlackBerry 10 is evolving, but when are they going to fix BlackBerry Link for Mac?

    The fact that it doesn't reliably do what it's supposed to do ... most of the time ... is utterly appalling. The only consistency is the "Music not copied to Z10 message"
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    Pretty good stuff the takeover talk pissed me off by all was good.

    I think the ratio is abit too high there if users come back yeah 3-1 is reasonable.But as off now its prob 50-50 touchscreen takes more due to the L dropping first.
    Last edited by RECOOL; 12-21-2012 at 10:13 AM.
  5. leafs123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberChicken76 View Post
    I'd love to know the forecast plans for service revenues. The 3-1 number sounds ambitious to me. I get it in that it somewhat corresponds to overall device trends these days, but I struggle with it in terms of RIM suddenly moving to that mix. Not scientific, but I think I see thirty 9900 phones for every one Torch 9850 or Curve touch. In fact, I think I even see the PlayBook in the wild more than a touch only BlackBerry smartphone.

    On the apps, at least the host mentioned apps already on QNX (Facebook and Angry Birds)
    Well the current mix of qwerty vs touch phones for RIM has something to do with the fact that the current line of touch BBs is very poor.
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    3:1 makes sense, consumers have proven they are willing to sacrifice the keyboard for something good enough for more screen real estate. Now they can have both with the L-Series. RIM is the self-proclaimed keyboard king and that smaller niche that needs the physical keyboard will be happy to enjoy a competitive OS with the N-Series.

    I know RIM does a lot of analysis internally, nice to see them share their expectations, it serves as a good reality check (which many will complain they dropped the ball because Mike L and Jim B were out of touch with their consumer base)
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    I think Heins is "being bold" with that number. Yeah a lot of people are excited for the new all touch phone, but how many of those excited people are actually going to be waiting for a qwerty phone to upgrade.
    To achieve those 3:1 they will have to convert a lot of Android and iPhone users. Which isn't going to happen easily. The majority of people I know using those devices have bad feelings towards BB. Why would they go out and upgrade to a new BB10 device that in their minds could be another flop.
    That's why I feel a lot of the market for BB10 is going to be current and previous BB users who have been keeping track.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vpblaze View Post
    I think Heins is "being bold" with that number. Yeah a lot of people are excited for the new all touch phone, but how many of those excited people are actually going to be waiting for a qwerty phone to upgrade.
    To achieve those 3:1 they will have to convert a lot of Android and iPhone users. Which isn't going to happen easily. The majority of people I know using those devices have bad feelings towards BB. Why would they go out and upgrade to a new BB10 device that in their minds could be another flop.
    That's why I feel a lot of the market for BB10 is going to be current and previous BB users who have been keeping track.
    I think you're not understanding the statement correctly. Let me paraphrase for you, Thor said "I think people will choose to buy the Z10 over the QWERTY BB10 device. Something like 3 people will buy Z10 to 1 for QWERTY."

    It has nothing to do with people converting from Android/iOS to BB10.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JameB View Post
    I think you're not understanding the statement correctly. Let me paraphrase for you, Thor said "I think people will choose to buy the Z10 over the QWERTY BB10 device. Something like 3 people will buy Z10 to 1 for QWERTY."

    It has nothing to do with people converting from Android/iOS to BB10.
    It also has a lot to do with people buying their first smartphone. The great majority of BB10 purchases for the first few months will, in my opinion, be new smartphone buyers and existing BB users, and not converts. It'll take success to win a lot of converts, and success takes time. Meanwhile, smartphone virgins will be shopping, and BB10 needs to appeal to a good chunk of them.
  10. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafs123 View Post
    Well the current mix of qwerty vs touch phones for RIM has something to do with the fact that the current line of touch BBs is very poor.
    I agree. I've tried a few "all-Touch" BlackBerrys and the OS just felt improperly tacked onto to an OS meant for menu+click system. It felt harder to get things done on it than my iPhone or my PlayBook. And honestly, it was a step backwards for me from the keyboard BlackBerrys too in terms of getting things done. I liked touch screens where they accented the keyboard, like the 9900 or Torch. Some tasks were easier (ie. zooming, sliding between app screens and launching apps), but I still had access to the other shortcuts I liked.

    That said, I still think 3-1 is optimistic for a company known for selling keyboard devices to keyboard loving users. I'm thinking the N Series is going to outsell the L Series for a while a least.
    ------------------------------------
    I like how BlackBerry 10 is evolving, but when are they going to fix BlackBerry Link for Mac?

    The fact that it doesn't reliably do what it's supposed to do ... most of the time ... is utterly appalling. The only consistency is the "Music not copied to Z10 message"
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    Default Thorsten Heins expects a 3:1 sales ratio of touch vs. qwerty BB10 phones.

    What was that takeover talk bull?

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    I don't think he is overestimating things at all, the market in general is highly biased towards touch over qwerty and they have worked so hard on the vkb that a lot of qwerty fans are going to be converted to that model as well with the qwerty model becoming more of a niche for people with such heavy data entry needs that the qwerty still wins out for them.
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    Default Thorsten Heins expects a 3:1 sales ratio of touch vs. qwerty BB10 phones.

    the lower the ratio, the bigger the trouble rim is in because i don't see many outside of current bb users getting the keypad version.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rMBP15 View Post
    I dont get it.... QWERTY is what most people have been waiting for.... When will it be out?
    Nah ... QWERTY is what most BB people are waiting for, and I'll bet even a bunch of those will opt for the full touch. Full touch is what we're waiting to see if it will attract everybody else, which is what RIM really needs to do to regain some measurable competitiveness.
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  15. Taigatrommel's Avatar
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    It is interesting, in quite some surveys, the latest one was done by Nokia, the number of people prefering hardware keys was slightly above those who prefer touc-input. Yet the raw numbers seem to speak a different language, with more and more people going full-touch. I just hope RIM, unlike Nokia and HTC, continues to produce those QWERTY devices
  16. notfanboy's Avatar
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    A lot of this uncertainty could have been avoided by making a slider model. Full touch AND physical keyboard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by notafanboy View Post
    A lot of this uncertainty could have been avoided by making a slider model. Full touch AND physical keyboard.
    When has RIM ever done something logical? A side-slider physical keyboard would be the right balance, pun intended. Landscape orientation when using the keyboard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by notafanboy View Post
    A lot of this uncertainty could have been avoided by making a slider model. Full touch AND physical keyboard.
    How exactly is adding a third model to the equation supposed to reduce uncertainty (surely you're not suggesting that RIM only make a slider model...)? Does it even matter? RIM will find out in a few months what the actual ratio is and make logistical adjustments accordingly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masahiro View Post
    How exactly is adding a third model to the equation supposed to reduce uncertainty (surely you're not suggesting that RIM only make a slider model...)? Does it even matter? RIM will find out in a few months what the actual ratio is and make logistical adjustments accordingly.
    Not a third model, I meant a slider instead of the current keyboard model.

    I think that the square screen puts severe constraints on entire classes of apps. Most developers will not redesign their games for 1:1, even if it is possible. Videos will have to be letterboxed. Another thing is how the gesture based system will work with the keyboard. Will there be shortcuts for the hub, for peek?
  20. Masahiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notafanboy View Post
    Not a third model, I meant a slider instead of the current keyboard model.

    I think that the square screen puts severe constraints on entire classes of apps. Most developers will not redesign their games for 1:1, even if it is possible. Videos will have to be letterboxed. Another thing is how the gesture based system will work with the keyboard. Will there be shortcuts for the hub, for peek?
    No. Please, no. A slider is not a replacement for a keyboard model. The keyboard on my 9900 was miles better than on my 9800. It was also a lot slimmer and felt more solid overall. I'd also venture a guess that most people with a keyboard model don't intend on watching a lot of videos or playing a lot of games on their device. That's what they'd get a tablet for.

    [Edit]: Videos, not movies.
    Last edited by Masahiro; 12-21-2012 at 03:46 PM.
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  21. notfanboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masahiro View Post
    No. Please, no. A slider is not a replacement for a keyboard model. The keyboard on my 9900 was miles better than on my 9800. It was also a lot slimmer and felt more solid overall. I'd also venture a guess that most people with a keyboard model don't intend on watching a lot of movies or playing a lot of games on their device. That's what they'd get a tablet for.
    So for those people you mention, what's the point of moving to BB10's peek and flow then? The existing models ought to fill their needs, right?

    I said videos BTW, not movies. Movies are not that important to mobile. However, Youtube and the kinds of videos you find on news websites are important to mobile users.
  22. Masahiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notafanboy View Post
    So for those people you mention, what's the point of moving to BB10's peek and flow then? The existing models ought to fill their needs, right?
    I don't see what watching videos or playing games has to do with peek and flow, which I'm sure will work just the same as it does on the L-series.

    [Edit]: Videos, not movies.
    Last edited by Masahiro; 12-21-2012 at 03:48 PM.
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  23. Skeevecr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notafanboy View Post
    Not a third model, I meant a slider instead of the current keyboard model.

    I think that the square screen puts severe constraints on entire classes of apps. Most developers will not redesign their games for 1:1, even if it is possible. Videos will have to be letterboxed. Another thing is how the gesture based system will work with the keyboard. Will there be shortcuts for the hub, for peek?
    You think they should have made a slider that only appeals to a niche audience instead of a design that would instantly appeal to the majority of their hardcore qwerty addicts, it is a good job you don't get to make the design decisions.

    Why would there need to be shortcuts for peek, the idea behind the qwerty bb10 is that it still lives and dies by the touchscreen except that it is intended to be aimed at people who need a qwerty due to the volume of data that they enter, this is not like a 99xx or similar where the touchscreen was something that could be readily ignored by people if they so chose, this is still a touchscreen device first this time round.
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    Default Re: Thorsten Heins expects a 3:1 sales ratio of touch vs. qwerty BB10 phones.

    Well, I am on the fence in regards to qwerty or touch. I was leaning towards qwerty for the keyboard and using my pb via bridge for other stuff but when I hooked up bridge via my wife's 9900, I had no aps. Just communication. If bridge gave all that was on my handset on my pb, I would go qwerty but otherwise the screen is too small for apps and browsing and stuff. Am I missing something? Why can't there be a choice as to what you get over bridge? To me I want the bigger real estate for when I can fiddle around and the qwerty keyboard when I am on the run. Otherwise I need dups of things or just use my pb but then there data issues. Actually, at this point if pb actually allowed voice calls, I would go pb and headset and be good to go!!!
  25. Skeevecr's Avatar
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    No apps at all or do you mean none other than things like messaging, contacts etc?
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