03-23-17 07:06 AM
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  1. stlabrat's Avatar
    app is such a fragmented mess. can't wait some package, like microsoft office, that contain essential app in one... I guess apple possibly the only one can pull it off. Google is a bit scary, droid didn't make that much money, hopefully, it didn't land up like google fiber... for that reason, hopefully, pixel is somewhat break even... (in order for Merc, S8, others still exist and supported some what. as well as app developers. If I were app developer, I'll start hedge my bet on iOS, or other OS).
    03-20-17 07:34 AM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    app is such a fragmented mess. can't wait some package, like microsoft office, that contain essential app in one... I guess apple possibly the only one can pull it off. Google is a bit scary, droid didn't make that much money, hopefully, it didn't land up like google fiber... for that reason, hopefully, pixel is somewhat break even... (in order for Merc, S8, others still exist and supported some what. as well as app developers. If I were app developer, I'll start hedge my bet on iOS, or other OS).
    ?

    Most app developers make sure to cover both iOS and Android.... but the plain truth is there is no other OS worth spending time on other than Android and iOS, because there isn't a viable user base.

    Smartphone OS wars are over.... Android won, but iOS carved out the prime real estate and isn't going anywhere. What comes next???? Who knows, maybe some new technology that replaces smartphones the way smartphones have pushed PC aside in many consumers lives. Maybe it will be a smarter personal assistant that can run it's own BOTS/APPS, Maybe it's a chip in your brain. But I expect the next five - ten years or so iOS and Android are here to stay. FYI... Google is making plenty of money on Android - might be more as a by product, but they are doing very well. It's the hardware OEM's that are struggling amongst themselves, because for Android, the hardware is a commodity item that mean very little who makes it.
    MikeX74, jmr1015, TGR1 and 1 others like this.
    03-20-17 07:59 AM
  3. sorinv's Avatar
    Exactly! And that is my point. They have advanced and revolutionised how we use the Mobile Phone.
    Sure, just like programs have since the 1940's through the 2000's and than being rehashed as apps...

    Posted via CB10
    03-20-17 07:42 PM
  4. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Sure, just like programs have since the 1940's through the 2000's and than being rehashed as apps...
    No one is saying that programs are a new idea (so you can stop suggesting that people are in fact saying that) - we're saying that bringing complex, useful programs to a device that you can carry in your pocket and runs all day on a battery is a relatively new phenomenon that has changed the way mobile devices (which previously were mostly limited to email and messaging, in addition to phone calls) are used, and also changed the threshold of capabilities that most people expect from a device. Email and messaging aren't special anymore - they're a given, and so is a robust ecosystem of apps, services, media, and accessory support. If you don't have all of those things, you simply won't succeed - which is why WinPhone, BB10, WebOS, Tizen, Sailfish, Ubuntu, and others have not gotten any traction, even (as in Microsoft's case) pouring countless billions of dollars into the project and into advertising.
    jmr1015, MikeX74, TGR1 and 1 others like this.
    03-20-17 09:22 PM
  5. David Tyler's Avatar


    We're through the looking glass here, people.
    03-20-17 09:23 PM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    No one is saying that programs are a new idea (so you can stop suggesting that people are in fact saying that) - we're saying that bringing complex, useful programs to a device that you can carry in your pocket and runs all day on a battery is a relatively new phenomenon that has changed the way mobile devices (which previously were mostly limited to email and messaging, in addition to phone calls) are used, and also changed the threshold of capabilities that most people expect from a device. Email and messaging aren't special anymore - they're a given, and so is a robust ecosystem of apps, services, media, and accessory support. If you don't have all of those things, you simply won't succeed - which is why WinPhone, BB10, WebOS, Tizen, Sailfish, Ubuntu, and others have not gotten any traction, even (as in Microsoft's case) pouring countless billions of dollars into the project and into advertising.
    I would not call mobile apps "complex." I think it's more accurate to say that mobile phones have numerous "simple, useful apps" that many people value.

    My own issue is that most of the apps are so simple and inflexible as to not be very useful, so that I end up using my laptop, or desktop versions of websites much more often than I can use the apps for those same services. Typically, the apps are written for "typical" users doing frequent tasks. That's why they are so valuable for the masses, I'm sure. But not so much for people who require more flexibility and control for their mobile tasks.

    Sure, I can change some data in a spreadsheet with the excel mobile app, but I can't easily edit my VBA macros or use all my plug-ins to silver the actual problems I'm paid to solve.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    03-21-17 11:08 AM
  7. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Typically, the apps are written for "typical" users doing frequent tasks. That's why they are so valuable for the masses, I'm sure. But not so much for people who require more flexibility and control for their mobile tasks.
    You don't find success targeting outliers and exceptions when the product (smartphones and their ecosystems) are so expensive to develop and maintain. You have to target the mainstream and hope to meet the needs of the outliers as best as you can.

    But you are missing my point. Mobile apps in the BBOS days were primitive and very limited compared to today, and the hardware allows many things that were previously impossible and often still impractical with a laptop.

    Just because you need full desktop apps doesn't mean you should be so dismissive of the importance of mobile apps to consumers and the overall industry.
    03-21-17 12:20 PM
  8. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    You don't find success targeting outliers and exceptions when the product (smartphones and their ecosystems) are so expensive to develop and maintain. You have to target the mainstream and hope to meet the needs of the outliers as best as you can.

    But you are missing my point. Mobile apps in the BBOS days were primitive and very limited compared to today, and the hardware allows many things that were previously impossible and often still impractical with a laptop.

    Just because you need full desktop apps doesn't mean you should be so dismissive of the importance of mobile apps to consumers and the overall industry.
    It has to with how BlackBerry users see themselves and see others

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thing is I think that it has changed over all these years.... as I think the "typical BlackBerry user" just might be the old guy or the dinosaur. I no longer see BlackBerries in the real world, and from I do see... professionals today aren't using BlackBerry devices, and yet they seem to get things done.
    Attached Thumbnails Was there ever goal to finish off BB?-users.jpg  
    Troy Tiscareno and MikeX74 like this.
    03-21-17 01:28 PM
  9. early2bed's Avatar
    There's a difference between a simple app and a simple user interface. Many mobile apps succeed where PC apps did not because the vast screen real-estate available on PCs encourages developers to add buttons everywhere rather than simplify the UI. Just take every electronic medical record developed in the 1990's as an example. Heck, look at the way that Windows and Office used to look.

    If you think that mobile apps are simple and non-powerful then you haven't been looking very hard and are missing the biggest revolution in computing since the the GUI and the internet.
    03-21-17 01:55 PM
  10. sorinv's Avatar
    You don't find success targeting outliers and exceptions when the product (smartphones and their ecosystems) are so expensive to develop and maintain. You have to target the mainstream and hope to meet the needs of the outliers as best as you can.

    But you are missing my point. Mobile apps in the BBOS days were primitive and very limited compared to today, and the hardware allows many things that were previously impossible and often still impractical with a laptop.
    .
    You are missing the point! The apps were simple 10 years ago because the hardware did not allow more complex apps to run efficiently.
    It's the hardware that has changed dramatically to allow more powerful programs and apps to run EVEN on small computers like smartphones.
    There is nothing a smartphone can do that a laptop cannot do today.
    It can have all the sensors a smartphone has and it can make calls.
    It's just a matter of form factor. You cannot easily carry it in your pocket.
    Apps are not the reason why smartphones are so powerful today. The hardware is!

    Posted via CB10
    stlabrat likes this.
    03-22-17 12:53 AM
  11. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    In 2013, BB10 had more-or-less the same hardware as other popular phones. Yet BB10 phones were extremely limited in actually getting things done for people - because BB10 was missing the apps!

    Of course more powerful hardware enables more complex apps, but just because you have more powerful hardware doesn't automatically mean that you have apps on your platform.

    Anyway, you're obviously intent on dismissing the importance of apps - despite the painful and incredibly expensive lessons that BB10 and WinPhone have taught the industry - so I'm done with this thread.
    03-22-17 12:58 AM
  12. early2bed's Avatar
    If there is nothing special or unique about apps then why doesn't BB10 have them? They have all of the necessary hardware capabilities? Why didn't BlackBerry just whip them up rather than let their entire hardware program - a 30 year legacy - go down the toilet? All because of apps.
    03-22-17 02:07 AM
  13. Emaderton3's Avatar
    If there is nothing special or unique about apps then why doesn't BB10 have them? They have all of the necessary hardware capabilities? Why didn't BlackBerry just whip them up rather than let their entire hardware program - a 30 year legacy - go down the toilet? All because of apps.
    They couldn't just whip them up. Not all APIs are publicly available. It falls on the developers to create the apps, and they felt it wasn't worth the time and effort despite incentive programs early on from BlackBerry. Not to mention providing long term support. This point is well established and has been discussed time and time again.

    Posted via CB10
    03-22-17 06:59 AM
  14. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    You are missing the point! The apps were simple 10 years ago because the hardware did not allow more complex apps to run efficiently.
    It's the hardware that has changed dramatically to allow more powerful programs and apps to run EVEN on small computers like smartphones.
    There is nothing a smartphone can do that a laptop cannot do today.
    It can have all the sensors a smartphone has and it can make calls.
    It's just a matter of form factor. You cannot easily carry it in your pocket.
    Apps are not the reason why smartphones are so powerful today. The hardware is!

    Posted via CB10

    To be a success.. a company needs a "perfect storm" - Hardware, OS, Programs/Apps (3rd party support), Pricing, Marketing, Content - that fits their market.

    2007/2008 was the turning point in the mobile market... when consumers really started dedicating their expectations for what a smartphone must become. BlackBerry limping back into the market in 2013 with an incomplete product, would have been like IBM trying to compete against Microsoft Windows and Office in the late 90's. It's not about any one thing (like just hardware or just the OS), but about the total product and how it fits into the "current" market.
    StephanieMaks likes this.
    03-22-17 07:34 AM
  15. franqueb's Avatar
    There was three good OS that was elaborated for something else than just selling a hardware in a very lucrative and new market to exploited. Two of them had two be killed.
    Apple is doing thing in great$$$ either samsung and LG and Chinese big electronic's manufacturer.
    BB did thing wrong in the past 6 years ago. Windows lauched to late win 8 mobile and win. 10 mobile.
    But it does explain the ways carriers acted.
    At the opposite the One plus. Started on geek's reviews and was finally imposed to the carriers. But it is an excepton. Apple is still spend a lot of money in advertising and movie "placement" of products.
    The fall of BB have coincided with the fall of big geek and electronic magazine and their "e" transformation. With at first much less money.
    Finally BB have and business image and a control user image. The opposite of what have to have smartphone manufacturer to make max gain in this virgin market. The let motive what do more things, amazing things!
    03-22-17 08:43 AM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    You don't find success targeting outliers and exceptions when the product (smartphones and their ecosystems) are so expensive to develop and maintain. You have to target the mainstream and hope to meet the needs of the outliers as best as you can.

    But you are missing my point. Mobile apps in the BBOS days were primitive and very limited compared to today, and the hardware allows many things that were previously impossible and often still impractical with a laptop.

    Just because you need full desktop apps doesn't mean you should be so dismissive of the importance of mobile apps to consumers and the overall industry.
    Ah, but I'm not dismissive of them for consumers and the overall industry. That's why I spend money and hire people to develop mainstream apps for my clients. I'm just dismissive of them for my own professional use. I don't give a rat's behind what car or phone other people drive. But don't try to convince me that what works for the masses is better for my use.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    03-22-17 03:45 PM
  17. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    There's a difference between a simple app and a simple user interface. Many mobile apps succeed where PC apps did not because the vast screen real-estate available on PCs encourages developers to add buttons everywhere rather than simplify the UI. Just take every electronic medical record developed in the 1990's as an example. Heck, look at the way that Windows and Office used to look.

    If you think that mobile apps are simple and non-powerful then you haven't been looking very hard and are missing the biggest revolution in computing since the the GUI and the internet.
    I think we have different definitions for some of these words. The complexity in mobile apps typically resides on the server side. The mobile app is usually just a presentation layer with very little user control or computation being done on the handset. The other huge advantage of mobile is of course the ability to integrate location data and other sensors, such as a camera.

    But, at least for me, it's rare to find a mobile app that helps me do something I actually need to do better than a desktop app.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    03-22-17 04:19 PM
  18. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Heck, look at the way that Windows and Office used to look.
    This is clearly a question of which features are important for a given task. There is almost no work I do that can be done in the mobile versions of MS Office. They are great for simple tasks, such as editing a document to customize it for a client while traveling, but I can't use my Powershell scripts or VBA code on them to do the automated work I can on the desktop.

    As an example, if I want to change all the colors in a series of highly customized graphs throughout a standardized document, so that I'm using my client's specific colors, I can do that in 15 seconds on my laptop, but it's simply impossible on my iPad or Samsung Note.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    03-22-17 04:29 PM
  19. abwan11's Avatar
    The mobile device and its apps has created a world (well at least a generation within the world) of computer illiterates. Anyone born today will have very little use for the computer and it's applications as we know it. We have taken a step back in that regard, the depth and complexity of most computer applications will be lost to the average user. As much as the mobile app has simplified and enhanced our access to such tasks, it has and will continue to hinder a generation from understanding tech the way the genz before them. Bare feet to sandals, analog to digital, horse to car, toast to pop tarts, herbal remedy to prescription heroin. Everything comes at a price and nothing is ez, (unless your on that heroin).

    Posted via CB10
    03-22-17 07:46 PM
  20. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    The mobile device and its apps has created a world (well at least a generation within the world) of computer illiterates. Anyone born today will have very little use for the computer and it's applications as we know it. We have taken a step back in that regard, the depth and complexity of most computer applications will be lost to the average user. As much as the mobile app has simplified and enhanced our access to such tasks, it has and will continue to hinder a generation from understanding tech the way the genz before them.
    [citation needed]
    MikeX74 likes this.
    03-22-17 07:47 PM
  21. franqueb's Avatar
    To follow the subject of this thread, about the negative welcomes to everything from Blackberry in past 4 years.
    A saw a couple of positives reviews in French tech' magazine site. Most about the Passport. Maybe they were more financially indépendant? Exemple "les numériques" exemple: CNETfrance, Les mobiles.
    http://www.cnetfrance.fr/produits/bl...t-39806837.htm
    http://www.lesmobiles.com/actualite/...-affaires.html
    Last edited by franqueb; 03-22-17 at 08:19 PM.
    03-22-17 08:08 PM
  22. sorinv's Avatar
    In 2013, BB10 had more-or-less the same hardware as other popular phones. Yet BB10 phones were extremely limited in actually getting things done for people - because BB10 was missing the apps!

    Of course more powerful hardware enables more complex apps, but just because you have more powerful hardware doesn't automatically mean that you have apps on your platform.

    Anyway, you're obviously intent on dismissing the importance of apps - despite the painful and incredibly expensive lessons that BB10 and WinPhone have taught the industry - so I'm done with this thread.
    No, I am not dismissing the importance of apps and software in general.
    Nothing in bb10 and its hardware prevented any app running on android or iphone from from being rewritten for and running on bb10.
    What happened had only to do with market forces and app developer priorities.

    Posted via CB10
    03-22-17 08:59 PM
  23. sorinv's Avatar
    To be a success.. a company needs a "perfect storm" - Hardware, OS, Programs/Apps (3rd party support), Pricing, Marketing, Content - that fits their market.

    2007/2008 was the turning point in the mobile market... when consumers really started dedicating their expectations for what a smartphone must become. BlackBerry limping back into the market in 2013 with an incomplete product, would have been like IBM trying to compete against Microsoft Windows and Office in the late 90's. It's not about any one thing (like just hardware or just the OS), but about the total product and how it fits into the "current" market.
    Yes. It has to be revolutionary and the execution must be perfect, both technically and from the marketing point of view.
    BB10 was not. It was a me-too product in many ways and marketing and support from the BlackBerry itself was abysmal and unparalleled in its short life.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by sorinv; 03-22-17 at 09:14 PM.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    03-22-17 09:03 PM
  24. franqueb's Avatar
    Yes. It has to be revolutionary and the execution must be perfect, both technically and from the marketing point of view.
    BB10 was not. It was a me-too product in many ways and marketing and support from the BlackBerry itself was abysmal and unparalleled in its short life.

    Posted via CB10
    May I... you say BB 1# had a short life!? Too long we should have a BB 11 or 12 now. Compare to IOS or even Microsoft during the period. With good marketing and a better emulator a real bb-google stoemulator. Make latest product more visible in series and movies. But know, they can do different.
    Many android user will have to upgrade their phones and we're deceived by budget quick do android devices, so nothing is finish yet!
    Last edited by franqueb; 03-22-17 at 10:15 PM.
    03-22-17 09:58 PM
  25. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    May I... you say BB 1# had a short life!? Too long we should have a BB 11 or 12 now. Compare to IOS or even Microsoft during the period. With good marketing and a better emulator a real bb-google stoemulator. Make latest product more visible in series and movies. But know, they can do different.
    Many android user will have to upgrade their phones and we're deceived by budget quick do android devices, so nothing is finish yet!
    The BB10 team is long gone.
    This happened ~2 years ago.
    10.3.4 may happen but that is the end of it.
    Last edited by DrBoomBotz; 03-23-17 at 09:29 AM.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    03-23-17 07:06 AM
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