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  1. Mr_F's Avatar
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    Default Is there enough TAT in BB10...

    Hi All

    Before you flame me by pointing out that Cascades is essentially TAT - just give me a minute to explain myself.

    I've seen a number of videos showcasing what TAT is capable of producing (including the more recent PlayBook exclusives). These videos were nothing short of amazing and I was left with a real hunger to see what else they could do. When I heard they were going to be responsible for the visual styling on BB10 my excitement for the new OS rose to 11! I couldn't have been more excited.

    However, looking at everything we've seen of BB10 (thus far) I can't help but feel as if their wings have been somewhat clipped. I'm not seeing the visionary design that I saw in those demo videos - and more concerning, I'm even seeing a slight disconnect/conflict from that early unhinged creativity. Many of you will have seen the 3D photo gallery that they produced (but never released) for the PlayBook. It may just be me but I don't see the visual connection between something like that and the typically structured Cascades look that we've grown familiar with.

    I fully understand that Cascades is a framework - the skeleton of which developers build on. However I am worried that getting Cascades released (which I'd imagine was no easy task) may mean that we don't get as much TAT 'magic' as we might have otherwise done.

    BB10 really needs to dazzle on first impressions - nothing less. Have we had a World class chef in the kitchen but failed to get them to prepare a dish for us to taste on opening night? Were they just there to prepare the kitchen for us? If so, I think that would be a real shame for the launch of BB10.

    I'm hoping this isn't the case and TAT will provide the magic that will dazzle on Jan 30.

    What do you think, will TAT be the secret weapon used to provide the launch day 'wows'? Or will we have to wait for them to regroup after the challenge of getting Cascades out of the gate?
  2. Mr_F's Avatar
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    Here are a few of the amazing TAT demos that I made reference to. Apologies if you've seen them before...











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  3. Bla1ze's Avatar
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    I am of the opinion that there isn't. There is subtle things in there but nothing like TAT has shown in the past.
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  4. kdna's Avatar
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    Design and function. TAT influence is definitely inside BB10. We will see more at launch.
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    I have a counter proposition: Do you want only the native apps to look amazing, but everything else on the device to seem lacking, or do you want [potentially] all apps, including native, to look great (thanks to Cascades), but with the option of taking things further in the future?

    That said, nobody has seen the final release of the native apps yet, so we may get both amazing native apps and all other apps looking great.

    Only time will tell...

    Si.
  6. nappp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there enough TAT in BB10...

    I agree with Bla1ze. only used in small doses. although we could easily fill a petition to ask for the media player/picture viewer we saw, no evidence of it coming. my opinion was that it was bought simply to stop them from offering a competing product to other companies. time will tell though!
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  7. Zach Gilbert's Avatar
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    Maybe we will get some TAT magic in some of the default apps "photos, maps, videos, movie editor etc.". But only time will tell
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  8. BBThemes's Avatar
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    TAT have, as you said, been designing and making the cascades SDK. the result of this means they`ve made the demos like youve linked above. these are normally fixed item demos that wouldnt work in the real world What i mean by that is the media app doesnt read the device, but purely what the dev specifies more like when you load a picture on cb. more of a static reference. The way i see it they developed those apps to show what can be done by developers, so they now leave it in the hands of the developers to rise to the challenge if you like.

    While thats great for the future it does mean you wont see loads of TAT stuff in that sense, but think of it like a concept car. its outlandish, its amazing, its got `wow` turned up to 11. The production version is normally pulled back, a little more restrained if you like, as its aiming at the whole market, not just one niche.

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  9. mathking606's Avatar
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    I really don't think that we are seeing an amazing and really different UI in BB10 it is probably 7 out of 10 but as Kevin has said it's all about the UX which brings it all together which I can say from what I seen BB10 is the best at. As well I think that if we saw too much of this outrageous UI and the UX was all over the place then who would buy the phone.I do hope though that there is some cool TAT influenced UI in some of the core native experiences.

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    I agree OP, there are some things I would love to implemented, but at the same time, I would say some of it is a little too "cartoony" if I can use that. I still think there is a possibility of some real eye candy in some of the native apps. A little over a month before we find out
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  11. kill_9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bla1ze View Post
    I am of the opinion that there isn't. There is subtle things in there but nothing like TAT has shown in the past.
    Sadly I must agree with this comment. We were duped for lack of a better word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by simu31 View Post
    I have a counter proposition: Do you want only the native apps to look amazing, but everything else on the device to seem lacking, or do you want [potentially] all apps, including native, to look great (thanks to Cascades), but with the option of taking things further in the future?
    For BlackBerry OS 10 there should only be native applications. Excise Google Android compatibility like the wart it is and focus on 100% native application portfolio. Make the world sit up and take notice instead of a yawn and **-hum. Do you see Apple worrying about compatibility layers for Google Android on their Apple iOS products?
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  13. kill_9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rello View Post
    I agree OP, there are some things I would love to implemented, but at the same time, I would say some of it is a little too "cartoony" if I can use that. I still think there is a possibility of some real eye candy in some of the native apps. A little over a month before we find out
    The most important signal of a sea change towards a TAT-inspired UX can be answered by one question. Will Files & Folders have flying files and animated file shredders?
  14. Mr_F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bla1ze View Post
    I am of the opinion that there isn't. There is subtle things in there but nothing like TAT has shown in the past.
    I'm afraid I'm with Bla1ze on this one. There's still 49 days for them to crank something out in the kitchen (if they haven't done already) but at the moment things look very muted. I was really hoping that TAT's creative talent would have enhanced efficiency on a BlackBerry - but at the moment it's looking like there's a conflict between the two. Maybe straight lines (efficiency) and curves (creativity) don't mix...
  15. Cappyshirt's Avatar
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    TAT have, as you said, been designing and making the cascades SDK. the result of this means they`ve made the demos like youve linked above. these are normally fixed item demos that wouldnt work in the real world What i mean by that is the media app doesnt read the device, but purely what the dev specifies more like when you load a picture on cb. more of a static reference. The way i see it they developed those apps to show what can be done by developers, so they now leave it in the hands of the developers to rise to the challenge if you like.

    While thats great for the future it does mean you wont see loads of TAT stuff in that sense, but think of it like a concept car. its outlandish, its amazing, its got `wow` turned up to 11. The production version is normally pulled back, a little more restrained if you like, as its aiming at the whole market, not just one niche.


    Yes! I wish I could re-post this reply, every time a fan-boy ask "to unleash TAT's full power!". I think thats an insult to how hard TAT has been working, especially how there creating a UX from scratch...I think you guys need to remember that BB10 is like "Donut" or "iOS1" for RIM but 200% better. If BB10 succeeds expect TAT to have more time and focus for the next integration.

    Also how can you judge a platform that's not entirely released it's like judging someone's art before it's finished or a book you haven't finished reading. Your going to buy the device anyway's, don't complain before you even have it.
  16. Pootermobile's Avatar
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    Like BBThemes said TAT's demos are to show what can be done with BB10. As a designer I would want to see some of the flashy stuff in BB10. But for UI, especially mobile devices, there has to be consistency as well as simplicity. That's what TAT has done with Cascades. I think there will be some TAT flare in BB10's native apps but toned down and different from what we've already seen. Either way I want people to have that "oh damn" reaction when I show them BB10
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  17. Rello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB9700CA View Post
    The most important signal of a sea change towards a TAT-inspired UX can be answered by one question. Will Files & Folders have flying files and animated file shredders?
    Basically lol...only when stuff like that happens will people see a complete change to the concept stuff we've seen from TAT
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  18. Rello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cappyshirt View Post
    Yes! I wish I could re-post this reply, every time a fan-boy ask "to unleash TAT's full power!". I think thats an insult to how hard TAT has been working, especially how there creating a UX from scratch...I think you guys need to remember that BB10 is like "Donut" or "iOS1" for RIM but 200% better. If BB10 succeeds expect TAT to have more time and focus for the next integration.

    Also how can you judge a platform that's not entirely released it's like judging someone's art before it's finished or a book you haven't finished reading. Your going to buy the device anyway's, don't complain before you even have it.
    Ummmm....Do u work for TAT or something???...no need to be upset by someone's opinion. No one is trying to "insult" how hard TAT has been working...all the OP is basically suggesting is that they would've liked to see more along the lines of the demos they have released in the past. U say they are creating a UX from scratch but please don't forget there were rumors not long ago that RIM was also working with another company to bring this OS to life

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    It's just someone's opinion. Try not to be so sensitive next time
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  19. Cappyshirt's Avatar
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    I don't think I'm being sensitive I think I stating my opinion too. I personally LOVE what TAT has done, and don't agree that they need to add any "glitter" or "Pe-zzaz" to there UX. is this not a conversation?

    Seessh
  20. Mr_F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cappyshirt View Post
    Yes! I wish I could re-post this reply, every time a fan-boy ask "to unleash TAT's full power!". I think thats an insult to how hard TAT has been working, especially how there creating a UX from scratch...I think you guys need to remember that BB10 is like "Donut" or "iOS1" for RIM but 200% better.
    I cannot speak for everyone but I'm definitely not saying that building the Cascades SDK was easy. No doubt it was a huge task - but there's a possibility that it will be to the detriment of the 'wow factor' factor of the OS at launch. As much as I take on board your point about this being a first generation OS - the fact of the matter BB10 is not up against Donut or iOS1. It's up against Jelly Bean and iOS6 - two very good operating systems in their own right. BB10 needs to win back market share - people are already happy on other platforms and as such need to be wowed into switching back. Rightly or wrongly the modern consumer is about the visual, and TAT seemed to be the specialists in this area - it would just be nice to see a little more of that 'speciality' in what we've seen up to this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cappyshirt View Post
    If BB10 succeeds expect TAT to have more time and focus for the next integration.
    This is the key word for me and one that underpins my viewpoint. You rarely get a second chance to impress, especially in the modern world - so putting your best foot forward is even more important than it once was.
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  21. dentynefire's Avatar
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    Not enough TAT...having said that they're not going anywhere so now that a good part of Cascades is done maybe they will work on more TAT concept like apps [one can dream]
  22. RECOOL's Avatar
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    YEAH there is alot of TAT in BB10.From my view TAT are BB's new engineers they are the UX,UI team they probably replaced some of those from the pre BB10 era.They are not just some guys in R&D like they had been at all the other phone companys.I really think TAT are BB10 UX,UI engineers they are the ones creating a native experience and how slick the apps behave with cascades they hugely involved.Their creativity is crazy some of their ideas are better suited for tablets and we'll see some cool stuff all round eventually especially when PB goes 10 inch.

    The thing with them is they know the ''cool stuff'' people want and can implement it incredibly well I hope RIM let them sell their stuff in app store as BB exclusives they must have tone of stuff.
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    Cascades is in the BB10 framework for sure.. But the applications shown before we're written all in Cascades from the ground up. Now I'm sure that if a developer wanted to write an amazing game or application completely in Cascades and import it into BB10 .. they could. I don't think there is anything stopping one from doing so.
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    Btw, when BB10 is launched it looks like it'll be really good but it will also be in its infancy. Imagine as 10 develops over time, the full capability of Cascades will definitely grow. BB10 has already laid the groundwork.
  25. Mr_F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBThemes View Post
    TAT have, as you said, been designing and making the cascades SDK. the result of this means they`ve made the demos like youve linked above... The way i see it they developed those apps to show what can be done by developers, so they now leave it in the hands of the developers to rise to the challenge if you like.

    While thats great for the future it does mean you wont see loads of TAT stuff in that sense
    Whilst I'm not disagreeing with what you've said, I firmly believe the better option would have been to do both (if possible). They developed Cascades and as such (at this point in time) have a more intimate knowledge of how to get the best out of it.
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