1. back2bberry's Avatar
    In this day and age, why would anyone buy a Z10 or Z30?
    Please don't give me the BlackBerry fanatic shpeal about security or that blackberry has a better OS.

    The keyboard models make sense because....they have a keyboard. Some people have to have a keyboard on the phone so BlackBerry still has a niche.


    Remember when BlackBerry tried to compete with iOS and came out with the Storm 95xx. That phone was so horrible that everyone I met who owned one never wanted to buy a BlackBerry again.

    I used to resell phones heavily and when I received blackberries, I would tear through Bolds at iPhone prices. Wjenever I would get 9850's I would sell them for half as much, even though it retailed the same. Many of my buyers were Latin American and African exporters who bought out all of my Curves and Bolds. They wouldn't want to purchase a non qwerty BlackBerry unless it was a fire sale price since all of those users were burned by the Storm.
    Ebay and craigslist prices also reflect the qwery vs touchscreen prices.

    Those same exporters and customers still want to purchase qwerty BB's, but the demand has dropped since BBM is available for everyone else.

    So why make touchscreen only phones that a majority of your buyers don't want, and users of other operating systems will NEVER EVER comvert to. It sounds like a horrible business plan to me for a failing company trying to find it identity.

    (Once again please don't tell me your Z10 or Z30 is better than the galaxy's and iphones of this world, they are junk unless you have a secured model made for drug lords and heads of state.)

    Posted via CB10
    bbq10l and rai187 like this.
    11-13-13 07:25 PM
  2. Elite1's Avatar
    You're talking about BB devices from totally different eras.

    The legacy BBOS devices were outdated, and get more outdated with every product generation.

    Devices on the new BB10 platform can compete with the big boys. Specs don't tell the whole story, but compare the specs of Torch 9850 vs Z10.
    BB10 devices can handle large full-featured games. On the old devices if a game was 5MB that was considered huge.

    I love the keyboard on the Z10. I dislike typing on iPhones. The SwiftKey Pro keyboard on Android is close, but I still prefer the BB10 virtual keyboard.
    Plus I want the option of having a 16:9 screen ratio since most games & media are built for that screen ratio.
    11-13-13 07:36 PM
  3. Overlake's Avatar
    Totally agree. I see no point in a touchscreen no phys keyboard BlackBerry. I compromise along the apps front because keyboard takes priority.
    11-13-13 07:38 PM
  4. deadcowboy's Avatar
    I agree partially. The new BB10 touchscreen phones have a place. But I will quit Blackberry if they stop producing qwerty phones.
    bbq10l, Dude_9 and TheBlkGuyFrmWrk like this.
    11-13-13 07:39 PM
  5. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Yes. I have tried all the phones from Qwerty to full touch. The Z10 and now the Z30 are the only ones I like. If the Z10 and Z30 were not made, I would feel cheated. The experience with the OS and hub is better than anything out there.
    Elite1, bungaboy and newcollector like this.
    11-13-13 07:40 PM
  6. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
    I like the z10...z30 if the screen wasn't so dim
    11-13-13 07:54 PM
  7. gogurt48's Avatar
    Devices on the new BB10 platform can compete with the big boys.
    Obviously they can't, because they don't. But the OP raises an interesting point. There will probably always be a small segment of smartphone users who want a physical keyboard. Maybe BlackBerry can survive as a handset maker by catering to that segment. They sure won't survive much longer going toe-to-toe with iOS and Android full touchscreen devices.
    11-13-13 08:04 PM
  8. berryaddictnoza's Avatar
    I love BB 10 OS, and if Sprint offered a Z10 with a bigger battery, I would prefer that over my Q10.
    11-13-13 08:06 PM
  9. SparkyBC's Avatar
    Why be stuck in the past. It's no different than records and the nostalgia they bring.

    Is it better sound or a better phone. That's in the eye of the beholder, but the qwerty should have been killed off ages ago IMHO.

    Barely any companies manufacturer qwerty phones for a reason. Just because it's a blackberry isn't a excuse.

    Bb10 qwerty can exist but it's a niche to keep the diehard semi use to what the have known to love over the years.
    11-13-13 08:13 PM
  10. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    You cannot judge BBOS with BB10 it's chalk and cheese! The problem with BB10 is much misinformation! The devices are comparable with any other device on the market the market in this case does NOT reflect the true wonders of the BB10 touch screen experience. Its hands down the BEST keyboard on the market bar none! BlackBerry was to be blamed for the rush job on the initial release with the rebooting issue in particular but now that there have been new itinerations of the OS that issue is history! The 10.2.0.1791 release brings tons of new features that actually makes you think that you have a completely new device with none of the buggy issues of the 10.0. xxxxxx. What BlackBerry has to do is insist that carriers push out those upgrades in a timely manner, I have been a qwerty key board user and NEVER thought I would be a user of Touch Screens but since my Z10 purchase earlier this year and subsequent Z30 purchase there is no way I will go back to a qwerty hard keyboard. Too much misinformation out there.

    Posted via CB10
    Elite1, bb624, Anthony_2u and 5 others like this.
    11-13-13 08:14 PM
  11. johnnyuk's Avatar
    BlackBerry needs to grow it's business again and start making profit. The physical keyboard market is shrinking, there is no long term growth to be had there, all the other major manufacturers have left it behind.

    Once a tech company starts selling only to its existing customers that is the beginning of the end as it's an ever decreasing user base until they and the company cease to exist. BlackBerry must start to make a profit from the growth potential in the all touch screen phone market if it is to survive. What hinders it is that until 2013 all of BlackBerry's attempts at an all touch screen phone were badly executed, and I still own the last two of them the 9380 and 9860 so I know.

    Those 5 years of crappy all touch phones have done untold damage to the consumer's perception of what a BlackBerry all touch phone will be like. To compound that the poor marketing means that people aren't being shown that their perception of BB10 all touch phones is wrong. BlackBerry must reverse this situation.

    Posted via CB10
    11-13-13 08:19 PM
  12. marksf941's Avatar
    I don't think the market is big enough for a company to survive making only a keyboard phone. Perhaps the z10 and z30 haven't met sales expectations yet, but touch screen phones are now the standard. With BYOD, if BB doesn't make keyboard AND touch phones, they will not survive. BB doesn't need to beat iphone and android, they just need to be seen as competitive and establish solid base. That is where marketing comes in. Perhaps with the new CEO BB will have another shot.

    I am not a big app user, but many people are, so getting more quality apps is important, whether for keyboard or touch. Apps become part of the specs that consumers are looking for in a phone.
    11-13-13 08:20 PM
  13. back2bberry's Avatar
    You're talking about BB devices from totally different eras.

    The legacy BBOS devices were outdated, and get more outdated with every product generation.

    Devices on the new BB10 platform can compete with the big boys. Specs don't tell the whole story, but compare the specs of Torch 9850 vs Z10.
    BB10 devices can handle large full-featured games. On the old devices if a game was 5MB that was considered huge.

    I love the keyboard on the Z10. I dislike typing on iPhones. The SwiftKey Pro keyboard on Android is close, but I still prefer the BB10 virtual keyboard.
    Plus I want the option of having a 16:9 screen ratio since most games & media are built for that screen ratio.

    The hardware isn't the problem, the problem is a half assed complicated OS and a garbage App store. Your mentioned you play games and media on your Z10. What games? What media? There is no Real Racing 4, Infinity Blade, GTA Vice City, or any game with substance. There is no Netflix, Hulu, Spotify, or any other media app to enjoy.


    I truly think that people are buying these Z phones because they want to feel "cool" by having what others aren't using. The OS does nothing spectacular other than copy Palm OS from 2009 and make it complicated. Please don't buy a BlackBerry unless you truely need a solid physical keyboard.

    Posted via CB10
    Poirots Progeny and bbq10l like this.
    11-13-13 08:24 PM
  14. Elite1's Avatar
    Devices on the new BB10 platform can compete with the big boys.
    Obviously they can't, because they don't.
    You live in a much simpler world than most of us apparently.
    There are several reasons why BB10 hasn't been successful, and hardware isn't one of them. Obviously.

    But the OP raises an interesting point. There will probably always be a small segment of smartphone users who want a physical keyboard. Maybe BlackBerry can survive as a handset maker by catering to that segment. They sure won't survive much longer going toe-to-toe with iOS and Android full touchscreen devices.
    This is actually an example of the thinking that helped BBRY along into its current state. Didn't BBRY already have keyboard devices, and lots of them?

    What the legacy BBOS devices failed to deliver were feature sets more and more desired by both consumer & corporate clients alike. They were the same as when BBRY was successful, and that wasn't good enough anymore.

    Again you're pushing things into absolutes. It's not a pass/fail scenario. BBRY doesn't need to "win" by converting every prospective smartphone purchaser to a BBRY user. Of course that's not happening anytime soon. I don't know how much of the market they need to capture to be profitable again. 5%, 10%? They would be "losing" to iOS & Android still, but they would be a successful company again.

    And yes, there will be a small niche market of users that just want a qwerty hardware keyboard. You're right about that. BBRY can still cater to that segment without that being the only thing they do.
    bbq10l likes this.
    11-13-13 08:29 PM
  15. miketko's Avatar
    In this day and age, why would anyone buy a Z10 or Z30?
    Please don't give me the BlackBerry fanatic shpeal about security or that blackberry has a better OS.

    The keyboard models make sense because....they have a keyboard. Some people have to have a keyboard on the phone so BlackBerry still has a niche.


    Remember when BlackBerry tried to compete with iOS and came out with the Storm 95xx. That phone was so horrible that everyone I met who owned one never wanted to buy a BlackBerry again.

    I used to resell phones heavily and when I received blackberries, I would tear through Bolds at iPhone prices. Wjenever I would get 9850's I would sell them for half as much, even though it retailed the same. Many of my buyers were Latin American and African exporters who bought out all of my Curves and Bolds. They wouldn't want to purchase a non qwerty BlackBerry unless it was a fire sale price since all of those users were burned by the Storm.
    Ebay and craigslist prices also reflect the qwery vs touchscreen prices.

    Those same exporters and customers still want to purchase qwerty BB's, but the demand has dropped since BBM is available for everyone else.

    So why make touchscreen only phones that a majority of your buyers don't want, and users of other operating systems will NEVER EVER comvert to. It sounds like a horrible business plan to me for a failing company trying to find it identity.

    (Once again please don't tell me your Z10 or Z30 is better than the galaxy's and iphones of this world, they are junk unless you have a secured model made for drug lords and heads of state.)

    Posted via CB10
    Sorry buddy you prolly have no basis for your argument. I have a note 3, 5s and z30. I could list many benefits of the z30 over the other two but I'd be wasting my time. I'll name one and its the keyboard. Z30 keyboard is much better tha. The other 2 devices I have.

    SGN3--->5S----> z30. CB10
    11-13-13 08:30 PM
  16. BCITMike's Avatar
    In this day and age, why would anyone buy a Z10 or Z30?
    Please don't give me the BlackBerry fanatic shpeal about security or that blackberry has a better OS.

    The keyboard models make sense because....they have a keyboard. Some people have to have a keyboard on the phone so BlackBerry still has a niche.


    Remember when BlackBerry tried to compete with iOS and came out with the Storm 95xx. That phone was so horrible that everyone I met who owned one never wanted to buy a BlackBerry again.

    I used to resell phones heavily and when I received blackberries, I would tear through Bolds at iPhone prices. Wjenever I would get 9850's I would sell them for half as much, even though it retailed the same. Many of my buyers were Latin American and African exporters who bought out all of my Curves and Bolds. They wouldn't want to purchase a non qwerty BlackBerry unless it was a fire sale price since all of those users were burned by the Storm.
    Ebay and craigslist prices also reflect the qwery vs touchscreen prices.

    Those same exporters and customers still want to purchase qwerty BB's, but the demand has dropped since BBM is available for everyone else.

    So why make touchscreen only phones that a majority of your buyers don't want, and users of other operating systems will NEVER EVER comvert to. It sounds like a horrible business plan to me for a failing company trying to find it identity.

    (Once again please don't tell me your Z10 or Z30 is better than the galaxy's and iphones of this world, they are junk unless you have a secured model made for drug lords and heads of state.)

    Posted via CB10
    Phone hardware isn't everything. OS has its benefits.

    Why Z10? Because I want the screen real estate (non keyboard model) but want BB10.
    11-13-13 08:33 PM
  17. Elite1's Avatar
    Why Z10? Because I want the screen real estate (non keyboard model) but want BB10.
    That's exactly it.

    Now the problem is that BBRY hasn't convinced enough people to feel this way. I really hope they can, or BB10 goes the way of webOS.
    11-13-13 08:37 PM
  18. Z30Man's Avatar
    lol

    Posted via my BlackBerry Z30.
    11-13-13 08:39 PM
  19. gebco's Avatar
    I find it interesting that some folks here are making assumptions about those of us with Z10/Z30.

    I like the OS and the UI, more than anything Android or iPhone I've seen and played with. Yes we don't have as many apps (not like that discussion hasn't been beaten to death) but I for one enjoy the extra screen real estate and the touch keyboard. Please don't pretend to assume that I find it "cool" to have a phone that others aren't using. I'm not defined by my phone. I use it because it is a great phone, and not a piece of junk. My son has the flagship Android, the S4: nice phone, lots of whizz bang features that he as a teenage boy likes and finds cool, but it isn't for me.

    As for the Storm series, I had one and , yes, it was way behind the iPhone. But it didn't dissuade me from getting another BlackBerry.

    If BlackBerry stops making a full touch screen phone I'll end up going to another phone manufacturer, but very reluctantly.

    Posted via CB10
    11-13-13 08:41 PM
  20. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    The hardware isn't the problem, the problem is a half assed complicated OS and a garbage App store.
    You call the OS complicated? Oh my...
    11-13-13 08:44 PM
  21. h20work's Avatar
    I've owned the 9530, 9550, 9850, and now the Z10. I couldn't go back to a qwerty if I tried. I'm in the minority, as are all BlackBerry users, but I'd never go back to a half screen again. Pump up the 9850 on steroids (screen, memory, processor, etc) and I'd take it over the z10 any day.

    BlackBerry needs a full touch device. If the market for a qwerty was a goldmine other oems would be staking their claims. BlackBerry always made a great qwerty but if it was in someone's interest I'm sure they could as well.
    acovey and justsomebbuser like this.
    11-13-13 08:45 PM
  22. gogurt48's Avatar
    You live in a much simpler world than most of us apparently.
    There are several reasons why BB10 hasn't been successful, and hardware isn't one of them. Obviously.
    I can't speak to that because I haven't experienced the hardware. Therefore, I don't know whether the hardware is an issue or not. My only point was that BlackBerry's full touchscreen phones are not competitive. Whatever the reasons, the fact remains, they are not competitive. Not by a long shot. I don't think BlackBerry will survive if it stakes the company on full touchscreen devices.

    Can it survive if it focuses solely on physical keyboard devices (whether BBOS or BB10)? I don't know. Maybe not. But what choice do they have, realistically? They can't keep losing hundreds of millions of dollars a quarter on full-screen devices that don't sell. Not for long, anyway.
    bbq10l likes this.
    11-13-13 08:53 PM
  23. johnnyuk's Avatar
    So it looks like either make a grab for all touch market share now and risk burning up trying or focus on the dwindling physical keyboard market and die a long painful inevitable death by a thousand cuts.

    What's my view? A quote from 80's classic movie Highlander springs to mind:

    "I've got something to say! It's better to burn out than fade away!"

    Posted via CB10
    h20work, Elite1 and bungaboy like this.
    11-13-13 08:59 PM
  24. Elite1's Avatar
    The hardware isn't the problem, the problem is a half assed complicated OS and a garbage App store. Your mentioned you play games and media on your Z10. What games? What media? There is no Real Racing 4, Infinity Blade, GTA Vice City, or any game with substance. There is no Netflix, Hulu, Spotify, or any other media app to enjoy.
    Nobody said they've caught up and closed the app gap. They're not even close, but I'd say they're making good progress.

    On the game front, for the most part they don't have the latest & greatest. They do have a good selection of games now however.

    You're partially right, they have...
    -Real Racing 3, but not Real Racing 4 yet
    -Plants vs Zombies, but not PvsZ 2 yet
    -Where's My Water & Where's My Perry, but not Where's My Water 2 or Where's My Mickey yet
    -Despicable Me: Minion Rush, but not Temple Run nor Subway Surfers yet
    -Iron Man 3, but not Thor: The Dark World yet

    So what's the pattern here? BB10 is getting the releases later for the most part. But that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of great games on BB10. If you're a cutting edge iOS or Android gamer, you'll see huge holes. I don't think that represents most people.

    Again, we're seeing progress. A good example is the upcoming Angy Birds Go! which will release on BB10 at same time as iOS & Android.

    For media, there are huge holes. I don't use these apps, so it's not a factor to me, but I know it's a major factor for many consumers.
    In Canada, Netflix isn't half of what it is Stateside and Hulu doesn't work. BB10 does have apps for NBC, ABC, ABC Family, CBS, USA Network, Discovery Channel, and a few others that work in USA only. I'm happy to have the AMC app since I'm a Walking Dead fan. My Bell TV app is terrific too. I've also filled some time with Crackle.

    But BB10 needs to land some of these missing big names (Netflix, Hulu, Spotify, HBOgo, and others) if they want to be taken seriously and attract more people in the key USA market.

    I truly think that people are buying these Z phones because they want to feel "cool" by having what others aren't using. The OS does nothing spectacular other than copy Palm OS from 2009 and make it complicated. Please don't buy a BlackBerry unless you truely need a solid physical keyboard.
    I like the OS more than iOS. I've set up plenty of iPhones for family members. I find the OS tedious to use, and I'm not even using it as a driver or doing any messaging. Millions & millions of consumers are satisfied with it though. I'm not wrong, and neither are they.

    Why would you make a personal plea urging people not to buy BB10? That's just silly.
    11-13-13 09:04 PM
  25. h20work's Avatar
    I can't speak to that because I haven't experienced the hardware. Therefore, I don't know whether the hardware is an issue or not. My only point was that BlackBerry's full touchscreen phones are not competitive. Whatever the reasons, the fact remains, they are not competitive. Not by a long shot. I don't think BlackBerry will survive if it stakes the company on full touchscreen devices.

    Can it survive if it focuses solely on physical keyboard devices (whether BBOS or BB10)? I don't know. Maybe not. But what choice do they have, realistically? They can't keep losing hundreds of millions of dollars a quarter on full-screen devices that don't sell. Not for long, anyway.
    I think BlackBerry would be better off with just 2 devices. Neither of the Z's are ground breaking or competitive with their peers at the price points bbry set. Yes, they offer the best hardware we've seen on a BlackBerry to date, but nothing that hasn't been done before.

    I'm glad they cut down to 4 devices now, back in 2008-2010 they had more than we could keep up with. Focus on a few key products, and make them the best damn devices you can.
    11-13-13 09:09 PM
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