1. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I think that says it all...Blackberry users are ones of choice...we don't use a Blackberry to fit it and conform. Blackberry users don't need a device to define them.
    Funniest thing I have read all day... defining one's non-conformity by proudly identifying with a group, and all in response to not having certain features. LOL.
    vrs626 and tjseaman like this.
    05-06-12 02:57 PM
  2. sam_b77's Avatar
    But 6 years ago a blackberry was the thing to have & EVERYBODY got one. Wasn't that conforming? Hm.


    Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
    Your definition of " EVERYBODY " seems to be rather small.
    RIM sold 3.5 million Blackberrys in 2006. Seriously do you fact check before posting??
    BlackStormRising likes this.
    05-06-12 03:00 PM
  3. sam_b77's Avatar
    Funniest thing I have read all day... defining one's non-conformity by proudly identifying with a group, and all in response to not having certain features. LOL.
    We are all unique...Just like everyone else .
    05-06-12 03:02 PM
  4. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    been saying for ages the iPhone is coming to the end of its life. I have a 2nd Generation iTouch, and there is not by any strech of the imagination 4 years worth of advancement when i compare it to an iPhone 4S. So apple have copied other OS's with the notification bar and the folders. but it took 5 years to steal a few ideas from Blackberry and Android phones? The iPhone was a Concept. like all apple products. they have a concept, and they cant get beyond it. they stick with the same thing, and just increase the numbers on the spec sheets. Ive used OSX from Tiger through to Mountain Lion and again.. there really isnt several years of improvement, its the same rehashed stuff with different wallpapers, and updated cosmetics on the hardware.

    Android has been working to Merge Phones and Tablets to work seemlessly, but i think that may have backfired as phones are just turning into tablets rather than complimenting them. which like apple, runs the risk of becoming a jack of all trades, Yes it does everything, but it doesnt do any of those things exceptionally well.

    Exceptionally well is something RIM has always excelled at, Messaging, Phonecalls, Email, the things you NEED your phone for. and while i am eager to get my hands on a BB10 device when they launch, i hope they dont move into Jack of all trades territory, i hope they stick at making a phone that is an excellent phone, and tablets which are excellent compliments to the phone. and not switch to a one device trys to hard to do all plan.
    I want proof that the iPhone is coming to the end of its cycle...The sales & customer satisfaction says that you're a liar.


    Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    05-06-12 03:19 PM
  5. MartyMcfly's Avatar
    That's what I keep hearing from every new iPhone release...will the real iPhone please stand up.
    Not sure what you mean...*shrugs*


    Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk
    05-06-12 03:21 PM
  6. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    But 6 years ago a blackberry was the thing to have & EVERYBODY got one. Wasn't that conforming? Hm.


    Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk


    Hardly,

    6 years ago, the percentage of smartphone users to feature phone users was a fraction,
    I know FAR MORE BlackBerry users today than I did 6 years ago
    as 6 Years ago there were approximately 7 Million active Blackberry users.

    The iPhone was the first consumer status symbol smartphone that people flocked to who had zero need for a smartphone, then the definition of a smartphone evolved to a portable mediaplayer with internet connectivity, people got iPhones, because well if you didn't have an iPhone, you didn't have an iPhone.
    BlackStormRising and bigbmc26 like this.
    05-06-12 03:23 PM
  7. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Hardly,

    6 years ago, the percentage of smartphone users to feature phone users was a fraction,
    I know FAR MORE BlackBerry users today than I did 6 years ago
    as 6 Years ago there were approximately 7 Million active Blackberry users.

    The iPhone was the first consumer status symbol smartphone that people flocked to who had zero need for a smartphone, then the definition of a smartphone evolved to a portable mediaplayer with internet connectivity, people got iPhones, because well if you didn't have an iPhone, you didn't have an iPhone.
    I don't know about that... the BlackBerry was (and arguably still is) a status symbol.
    05-06-12 03:26 PM
  8. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I don't know about that... the BlackBerry was (and arguably still is) a status symbol.
    Status symbol vs Trend setter.


    The BlackBerry 6 years ago was some what of a status symbol, more 8 years ago I'd say though if you had a BlackBerry you must be important in some way, 6 years ago was the launch of the Pearl, and the consumerization of the smartphone, RIM was not a trend setter with consumers, Some consumers adopted it, but the iPhone set a consumer trend, people needed to look at video's on a tiny screen and flick objects around as a game!

    The iPhone still is a trendy device, you're hardly looked down upon for wanting an iPhone, and "Because it's and iPhone" is a perfectly acceptable answer to wanting one.
    BlackBerry never had this, and most likely never will. as the landscape will drastically change even if BlackBerry were to become a dominate player again with a significant % of market share, one will always need to justify more so than "Because it's a BlackBerry"
    05-06-12 03:45 PM
  9. whitbags's Avatar
    My kids wanted blackberry about 18 months ago. IPhone was not desired, at all. Completely changed now. The iPhone is definitely the device the kids want now.
    05-06-12 06:13 PM
  10. sam_b77's Avatar
    My kids wanted blackberry about 18 months ago. IPhone was not desired, at all. Completely changed now. The iPhone is definitely the device the kids want now.
    They are Kids. 5 months later they would want Android.
    Don't read too much into it.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    05-07-12 02:21 AM
  11. iankeiththomas's Avatar
    One funny thing about the criticism that iOS doesn't change quickly enough is that in reality, that's a virtue of Apple's strategy.

    Firstly, it means that Apple doesn't implement features until the features actually work well. Android devices, for instance, notoriously feature half-baked features that sometimes have a severe negative impact on performance (e.g., WiMax obliterates battery, widgets turn the homescreen into a jerky, buggy mess). When Apple finally introduced its version of multitasking, for instance, it was on a device that improved the battery life and performance of its predecessor.

    Second, it means that an iPhone user can by a new iPhone and know what to expect - a better version of what the user already likes. A current Blackberry user who considers upgrading to BB10, for instance, will have an entirely new UI to contend with. Likewise, Android devices - with their myriad skins and OS revisions, to say nothing of form factors - are a crapshoot. This also means that an iPhone user can be sure that, for instance, all of his purchased apps will work, and that a new iPhone will play well with any other Apple products he might own.

    Both approaches have drawbacks - it took Apple way too long to implement a notification system that wasn't abysmal, and some users grow bored with Apple's UI - but it's clear that the approach has won Apple millions upon millions of consumers, and all the evidence points to that unbelievable success continuing.
    05-08-12 03:11 PM
  12. omniusovermind's Avatar
    My kids wanted blackberry about 18 months ago. IPhone was not desired, at all. Completely changed now. The iPhone is definitely the device the kids want now.
    exactly what happened to me. 15-16 years old: "but dad, all my friends are on BBM!"
    1 year later: "but dad all my friends are getting iPhones"
    05-08-12 03:32 PM
  13. sam_b77's Avatar
    One funny thing about the criticism that iOS doesn't change quickly enough is that in reality, that's a virtue of Apple's strategy.

    Firstly, it means that Apple doesn't implement features until the features actually work well. Android devices, for instance, notoriously feature half-baked features that sometimes have a severe negative impact on performance (e.g., WiMax obliterates battery, widgets turn the homescreen into a jerky, buggy mess). When Apple finally introduced its version of multitasking, for instance, it was on a device that improved the battery life and performance of its predecessor.

    Second, it means that an iPhone user can by a new iPhone and know what to expect - a better version of what the user already likes. A current Blackberry user who considers upgrading to BB10, for instance, will have an entirely new UI to contend with. Likewise, Android devices - with their myriad skins and OS revisions, to say nothing of form factors - are a crapshoot. This also means that an iPhone user can be sure that, for instance, all of his purchased apps will work, and that a new iPhone will play well with any other Apple products he might own.

    Both approaches have drawbacks - it took Apple way too long to implement a notification system that wasn't abysmal, and some users grow bored with Apple's UI - but it's clear that the approach has won Apple millions upon millions of consumers, and all the evidence points to that unbelievable success continuing.
    Wait just a second,
    BBOS is blamed to be the same for nearly 10 yrs and people dump on BB. Apple didn't invent this magical strategy of incremental upgrade. Every BB owner till date can upgrade to a new BB and know how to use it out of the box. For this RIM was raked over the coals. Now when the IOS is getting old and clunky, you are defending it by saying that it's an Apple STRATEGY??? And saying that Shift to BB10 is "too innovative". I guess RIM can't win either way. Or maybe you should stop drinking too much of Apple juice.
    05-08-12 04:05 PM
  14. iankeiththomas's Avatar
    The problem with the various BB OSs not changing much was that those operating systems desperately needed change, yet each iteration failed to correct insane defects in the underlying system like the endless nested menus, the required battery pulls, and the need to restart the phone after installing an app. That's why people complained when BB7 wasn't that different from BB6. The browser is perhaps the most egregious example; Apple completely revolutionized mobile browsing with the first iPhone, but it wasn't until BB7 that RIM included a browser on its devices that wasn't terrible.

    iOS doesn't have that problem. Users might want some feature or another added to it (better notifications, widgets, etc.), but the underlying structure of the OS was fluid and user-friendly from the start (especially compared to what passed for mobile user interfaces at the time), so the incremental change worked, and works. In other words, iOS isn't old and clunky. Apple's devices run incredibly fluidly, responsively, and quickly, and the simplicity of the UI is a bonus, not a vice.

    Looking at what RIM has done prior to BB10 is sort of like looking at how Nokia handled Symbian. Even when Nokia did a huge overhaul of Symbian for touchscreen devices like the N8, the company failed to address defects of the OS like the insane labyrinth of menus, and tried to appeal to familiarity with the OS to the point of doing absurd stuff like shipping the N8 with a T9 touchscreen keyboard rather than a portrait QWERTY.

    Also, I never said BB10 is "too innovative."
    05-08-12 04:50 PM
  15. sam_b77's Avatar
    I differ. IOS is showing its age now and if the iP5 is not a significant upgrade then there is not much progress done on it. Sure it would sell and break records, but didn't BBOS break records till 2010? The slide become apparent when the fans claim lack of innovation as a strategy. BB fans did this right until 2011.

    Also don't forget, that after shifting to BB10, RIM would again have a new OS and will be back to incremental upgrades.
    05-08-12 11:34 PM
  16. brucep1's Avatar
    I differ. IOS is showing its age now and if the iP5 is not a significant upgrade then there is not much progress done on it. Sure it would sell and break records, but didn't BBOS break records till 2010? The slide become apparent when the fans claim lack of innovation as a strategy. BB fans did this right until 2011.

    Also don't forget, that after shifting to BB10, RIM would again have a new OS and will be back to incremental upgrades.
    I'm not sure I would call the iP5 an insignificant upgrade without seeing it, knowing what it is, or really knowing anything about it.
    05-09-12 06:54 AM
  17. iankeiththomas's Avatar
    I differ. IOS is showing its age now and if the iP5 is not a significant upgrade then there is not much progress done on it. Sure it would sell and break records, but didn't BBOS break records till 2010?
    Not really like Apple has done, firstly.

    Secondly, the reason that lack of innovation in the BBOS became a problem is, again, because the iPhone and subsequent Android devices completely shifted the idea of what a smartphone was, while BB7 to this day remains firmly rooted in a pre-iPhone way of doing things.

    I'll also note that looking at iOS in isolation obscures a lot of the things that Apple has done with its devices. It makes it sound like Apple has marketed an identical device every year, which is obviously not the case. Every iteration of the iPhone has had its selling points - 3G, faster performance and video, incredible display, superior camera hardware, Facetime, revamped notifications, Siri, etc.. In other words, nobody cares that iOS has undergone only incremental change (as I mentioned, that's probably a good thing), because the iPhone changes a lot.

    The genius of the Apple approach is that while Apple is almost never the first developer to add a feature to its phone (my Nokia e71 had 3G and video chat in 2007; my G1 had a notification system in 2008 that Apple didn't match until 2011; it also took Apple until 2011 to come up with a BBM alternative), it's clear that consumers are more than willing to wait for a feature to find its way to the iPhone because Apple has earned a reputation for polishing the out of everything it does.

    An additional stroke of Apple genius is that it locked in a customer base - through its app store - in a way that nobody did before. The closest comparison is probably with BBM, but that hurdle turned out not to be insurmountable. The App Store will keep a lot of iPhone users from ever even considering an iPhone.
    05-09-12 08:35 AM
  18. sam_b77's Avatar
    I'm not sure I would call the iP5 an insignificant upgrade without seeing it, knowing what it is, or really knowing anything about it.
    I didn't say that IP5 is an insignificant upgrade. I said "IF" it isn't.....
    The "if" changes everything......
    05-09-12 01:39 PM
  19. sam_b77's Avatar
    Not really like Apple has done, firstly.

    Secondly, the reason that lack of innovation in the BBOS became a problem is, again, because the iPhone and subsequent Android devices completely shifted the idea of what a smartphone was, while BB7 to this day remains firmly rooted in a pre-iPhone way of doing things.

    I'll also note that looking at iOS in isolation obscures a lot of the things that Apple has done with its devices. It makes it sound like Apple has marketed an identical device every year, which is obviously not the case. Every iteration of the iPhone has had its selling points - 3G, faster performance and video, incredible display, superior camera hardware, Facetime, revamped notifications, Siri, etc.. In other words, nobody cares that iOS has undergone only incremental change (as I mentioned, that's probably a good thing), because the iPhone changes a lot.

    The genius of the Apple approach is that while Apple is almost never the first developer to add a feature to its phone (my Nokia e71 had 3G and video chat in 2007; my G1 had a notification system in 2008 that Apple didn't match until 2011; it also took Apple until 2011 to come up with a BBM alternative), it's clear that consumers are more than willing to wait for a feature to find its way to the iPhone because Apple has earned a reputation for polishing the out of everything it does.

    An additional stroke of Apple genius is that it locked in a customer base - through its app store - in a way that nobody did before. The closest comparison is probably with BBM, but that hurdle turned out not to be insurmountable. The App Store will keep a lot of iPhone users from ever even considering an iPhone.
    Really? Superior camera, display etc? That's your comeback....
    There are phones out there which have beaten iPhone on everyone of those criteria. And SIRI hardly works beyond a novelty trick.

    If that's your defence of Apple, then no wonder Android has taken it apart.

    Seeing your reply, I think RIM's strategy of selling their phones to people who want to get sh!t done seems a better one. For the rest there's android. Where does that leave iOS?
    As Kevin said RIM wants to sell to one in five. The people who want gwt sh!t done. For the rest there's Android.
    05-09-12 01:45 PM
  20. brucep1's Avatar
    IOS is showing its age now and if the iP5 is not a significant upgrade then there is not much progress done on it.
    Sorry I misread, but looking at that sentence I don't really blame myself.
    05-09-12 01:47 PM
  21. sam_b77's Avatar
    Sorry I misread, but looking at that sentence I don't really blame myself.
    I don't blame myself either. Maybe we should blame the forum gremlins and leave it at that .
    brucep1 likes this.
    05-09-12 01:50 PM
  22. iankeiththomas's Avatar
    Really? Superior camera, display etc? That's your comeback....
    There are phones out there which have beaten iPhone on everyone of those criteria. And SIRI hardly works beyond a novelty trick.

    If that's your defence of Apple, then no wonder Android has taken it apart.

    Seeing your reply, I think RIM's strategy of selling their phones to people who want to get sh!t done seems a better one. For the rest there's android. Where does that leave iOS?
    As Kevin said RIM wants to sell to one in five. The people who want gwt sh!t done. For the rest there's Android.
    To reiterate, looking purely at iOS and concluding that the iPhone hasn't changed obscures both the hardware features that Apple has integrated and the fact that Apple doesn't market an OS - it markets an experience, and that experience has changed pretty significantly over time.

    More to the point, this approach is clearly an unqualified success among huge numbers of consumers who spend lots of money on iPhones. In other words, consumers stick with iPhone even if, for example, Nokia produces a phone with a better camera, or RIM produces phones with excellent hardware keyboards. I don't need to defend Apple; the company's insane success speaks for itself.

    That's why saying that Android has "taken iOS apart" is nonsense. Apple makes obscene amounts of money from iPhone hardware, money that Android device manufacturers could only dream of.

    I do think that RIM's best chance is to market the Blackberry as a hardcore business/productivity device. To that end, I like the ad campaign now with the doctor, etc., who talk about how much they rely on their devices.

    The problem so far is that RIM doesn't really do this. For every "I use my Blackberry to do my job" advertisement, there are several more that concentrate on stupid things like using a Blackberry to blast music from a sound truck. RIM's focus on the BB10 camera software last week, for example, has absolutely nothing to do with an "all business" approach.

    The Blackberry is kind of like the ThinkPad - not nearly as stylish or elegant as an Apple product, but it isn't supposed to be. It's incredibly reliable, easy to use, and practically indestructible.

    RIM's problem when it come to that kind of marketing is that they have to figure out some way in which the Blackberry actually is better when you need to get things done. It isn't enough for RIM to just say that it's so. RIM also has to deal with the fact that, as it turns out, iPhones and Android phones are pretty good for getting work done, in no small part because of huge app catalogs and tons of developer support.
    05-09-12 02:09 PM
  23. sam_b77's Avatar
    To reiterate, looking purely at iOS and concluding that the iPhone hasn't changed obscures both the hardware features that Apple has integrated and the fact that Apple doesn't market an OS - it markets an experience, and that experience has changed pretty significantly over time.

    More to the point, this approach is clearly an unqualified success among huge numbers of consumers who spend lots of money on iPhones. In other words, consumers stick with iPhone even if, for example, Nokia produces a phone with a better camera, or RIM produces phones with excellent hardware keyboards. I don't need to defend Apple; the company's insane success speaks for itself.

    That's why saying that Android has "taken iOS apart" is nonsense. Apple makes obscene amounts of money from iPhone hardware, money that Android device manufacturers could only dream of.

    I do think that RIM's best chance is to market the Blackberry as a hardcore business/productivity device. To that end, I like the ad campaign now with the doctor, etc., who talk about how much they rely on their devices.

    The problem so far is that RIM doesn't really do this. For every "I use my Blackberry to do my job" advertisement, there are several more that concentrate on stupid things like using a Blackberry to blast music from a sound truck. RIM's focus on the BB10 camera software last week, for example, has absolutely nothing to do with an "all business" approach.

    The Blackberry is kind of like the ThinkPad - not nearly as stylish or elegant as an Apple product, but it isn't supposed to be. It's incredibly reliable, easy to use, and practically indestructible.

    RIM's problem when it come to that kind of marketing is that they have to figure out some way in which the Blackberry actually is better when you need to get things done. It isn't enough for RIM to just say that it's so. RIM also has to deal with the fact that, as it turns out, iPhones and Android phones are pretty good for getting work done, in no small part because of huge app catalogs and tons of developer support.
    BlackBerry IS better than iOS in a number of ways. There are a number of threads here on that and I won't deviate from this thread.

    Coming to the point of of Apple making obscene amounts of money, I don't dispute that, but if that's your metric for superiority then you are in for a learning experience. RIM, too did make obscene amounts of money when their OS was fresh...but they lost the plot when a new technologically superior OS came up with no baggage of previous owners started selling to fickle consumers.

    That "new" OS is getting old. And the customers are just as fickle. And having a 7 megapixel camera when the competition has a 10 megapixel camera won't help things.

    IOS needs a huge upgrade, and that upgrade might render its current ecosystem redundant. Just like BBOS becoming redundant in the face of BB10.

    Hardware upgrade is really not the defence for iOS as Androids beat any hardware upgrade in two months flat.

    The thing is RIM is moving on to the consumers who want to have stuff done, while Apple is going head to head with Android. Android is winning.....
    05-09-12 02:22 PM
  24. iankeiththomas's Avatar
    It doesn't matter if an OS is better in some ways. It only matters when the OS is better in ways that will lead to consumers picking it over its competitors. For example, the original iPhone and the Nokia e71 were released around the same time during the same year. To say that Symbian s60 was better than the first version of iOS in some ways is underselling it. Symbian was leagues more versatile and capable than iOS by virtually any metric. Except when it came to ease of use. Symbian was an arcane confusing nightmare to use, while iOs was simple, elegant, smooth, intuitive, and beautiful. And that clearly resonated with consumers.

    You also seem to be missing my point, one of which is that Apple consumers apparently are not that fickle. Through various methods, Apple has established utterly unparalleled brand loyalty. Consumers don't care if some competitor brandishes a 16 megapixel camera; they'll wait for Apple to improve its hardware.

    This kind of reminds me of the attacks you'd heard in some tech circles against Apple computers. It's simply very difficult for some to realize that Apple sells an experience, which can impossible to grasp when one focuses solely on discrete hardware specs.

    So, no, iOS doesn't need a major upgrade. It does what it does practically flawlessly, and it's monstrously popular. Seriously, Apple could throw a couple widgets into the next version of the software, and they'll still sell record amounts.

    That isn't to suggest that Apple is or will rest on its laurels. The current iPhone is leagues better than the original, and many would call the 4s (which sports a two-year-old design, a smaller screen than almost all of its competitors, and no LTE) the best single smartphone on the market. I would agree.

    You seem to be seriously misreading my posts if you think that I'm offering hardware differences as a defense of iOS. I'm pointing out that you're missing the whole picture by concentrating on these isolated elements, because consumers don't think that way. Consumers buy an entire phone, not just an OS.

    Also, Android isn't "winning." There isn't any such thing, really. Apple makes more money from its iPhone than any Android device manufacturer (probably more than most of them combined), Apple has brand loyalty that Android can't even dream of, and even years-old iPhone models still outsell virtually every other device on the market. In terms of sheer numbers, Android was always going to come out on top, because there are tons and tons of cheap Android devices sold everywhere by everyone (which is great for Google).
    05-09-12 03:06 PM
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