[sam_b77]

Yes, I realize this, that is why I said "this will be changing". Yes there is a larger world out side of NA. When it comes to economic power, right now a lot of it doesn't matter.

Not clear on why you say " I think that India will become a major factor in the mobile industry" . Doesn't India have some 850mil plus cell phone users now?

900 million plus actually. But hey 50 million is just a rounding off error for us. .

Indians love to reproduce....wouldn't harm us if we brought that under control .

[PineappleUnderTheSea]

and even after having the devAlpha, I wont be Buying the first BlackBerry 10 device unless it has a Keyboard

Mmmm...the key here is the word "buying".

You'll be "using" a BB10 without a keyboard, so does count as the same thing, i.e. was the intent that you would end up with a device without a keyboard, even though you won't be buying it?

What we need here is the original language and a team of lawyers to look at this. A large team.

[husainpatan]

Just wanted to let you know that India is apart of the upcoming super powers of the world. It's called "BRIC". Brazil, Russia, India, China. So yeah I think that India will become a major factor in the mobile industry and will assist in RIM turning it around. NA perception to the shares of RIM is immense and they do need to turn that around but they are functioning just fine outside of NA. There is a large world outside of USA...not the only country in the world

Thanx for a treat: there's world outside USA.

[sam_b77]

I personally thought the 4S wouldn't really sell due to the same iOS, same form factor, etc, but hey I was wrong.

People like simplicity with an illusion of customization, and iOS delivers just that. At the end of the day, most people put a wallpaper of their cutesy poopsy kids and that's about as much customization as they do. But to the OP's point, the next iPhone should offer a "classic" iOS look for those who are frightened of change, and another look that can be customized. After 5 years, the same look is getting a bit boring, I'm not so sure I'd go with the iPhone 5 if it retained the exact same OS; in fact, Apple should use RIM as an example: RIM kept the same old OS for years and years, and people simply WOKE UP and left (see what I did there?)

RIM is doing the right thing with BB10. And I'm glad they're taking their time and doing right. And if they manage to integrate the BB10 phones and tablets perfectly, I'll be on board.

I would bet a huge sum on IP5 breaking all previous sales records. Yes the OS is getting dated and is very clunky, but it still has a huge appeal. The IPhone is still a great piece of hardware and does a lot for a lot many folks. It would be stupid to bet against Apple in the next 2-4 yrs. Just like BB kept selling in huge numbers right until 2010. Even though it was dated and clunky, the BBOS5 devices sold in ever increasing numbers. So if an OS has a life of ten years, then iOS has another 3-4 yrs of solid sales even though it is stale.
I wouldn't bet the farm on BB10 just yet.

[sinsin07]

I personally thought the 4S wouldn't really sell due to the same iOS, same form factor, etc, but hey I was wrong.

People like simplicity with an illusion of customization, and iOS delivers just that. At the end of the day, most people put a wallpaper of their cutesy poopsy kids and that's about as much customization as they do. But to the OP's point, the next iPhone should offer a "classic" iOS look for those who are frightened of change, and another look that can be customized. After 5 years, the same look is getting a bit boring, I'm not so sure I'd go with the iPhone 5 if it retained the exact same OS; in fact, Apple should use RIM as an example: RIM kept the same old OS for years and years, and people simply WOKE UP and left (see what I did there?)

RIM is doing the right thing with BB10. And I'm glad they're taking their time and doing right. And if they manage to integrate the BB10 phones and tablets perfectly, I'll be on board.

Good points. I have a feeling that Apple has got complacent. I've read last year they were working on some mapping technology and I have a feeling that is what their next big item will be. iPhone 5 might be a big turning point if they don't come up with something. I have three different phones with three different Oses. If iPhone does not knock it out the park for me, I just might be walking around with two blackberries and one other Os. From what I have seen of the Dev Alpha pics, I would take that form factor as it is now.
It looks better than the production S3. As someone said on another forum, that's not a phone, it's a space station.

[_StephenBB81]

Mmmm...the key here is the word "buying".

You'll be "using" a BB10 without a keyboard, so does count as the same thing, i.e. was the intent that you would end up with a device without a keyboard, even though you won't be buying it?

What we need here is the original language and a team of lawyers to look at this. A large team.

Well I will be getting a Free BlackBerry 10 first release from RIM,
but I wont be dropping my 9790, or 9900 as my primary device until there is a BlackBerry 10 device with a Keyboard

so we'll have to say the bet is null

[PineappleUnderTheSea]

Well I will be getting a Free BlackBerry 10 first release from RIM,
but I wont be dropping my 9790, or 9900 as my primary device until there is a BlackBerry 10 device with a Keyboard

And pray tell, what will you be doing with this Free BB10 device, which I assume will not have a physical keyboard? Give it away to a deserving member of this forum? *hint*

[sinsin07]

900 million plus actually. But hey 50 million is just a rounding off error for us. .

Indians love to reproduce....wouldn't harm us if we brought that under control .

Well I did try and look up the info first and that's the numbers I was seeing. However a refinement of my search now yields those numbers, which is not that far behind China.

Which begs the question, why is India only "becoming" (as another poster mentioned) a cell phone force to be reckoned with. It would seem China and India together would be calling the shots as those number are close to 2 billion.

[sam_b77]

It's still not a world power. It's the perception of NA that is affecting RIM. India has no market influence, other than what's in your mind. India is another place companies go for cheap labor. [I]This will be changing as India gets richer and richer from foreign companies exploiting the India labor force.
[/I]
China is the one to watch.

What "foreign" companies would that be??
Let's just see :
Telecom : American companies are far smaller in size compared to Indian telecom companies...so they can't exploit us.
Steel:
Mittal steel owns all of US steel and Arcelor. Indian UK based. Also owns iron ore mines all over the world.
Corus Steel: Owned by Tata Steel...Indian Company.
Jaguar Motors: Owned by Tata Motors...Indian Company.
FLAG Telecom 65,000 kms of undersea cables spanning 163 countries, providing data services to NA, Europe and Asia along with VoIp : Bought by Reliance Communications ....Indian Company.
Largest Military Aircraft order in the History of the world : Floated by Indian Air Force, manufactured by European and American Labor.
So seriously what "foreign" companies are you talking about?

[_StephenBB81]

And pray tell, what will you be doing with this Free BB10 device, which I assume will not have a physical keyboard? Give it away to a deserving member of this forum? *hint*

It will probably make it to My Christmas Tree as many other devices do

or it will replace my PlayBook as my Excel file viewer on the go depending on size and PPI

[sam_b77]

Well I did try and look up the info first and that's the numbers I was seeing. However a refinement of my search now yields those numbers, which is not that far behind China.

Which begs the question, why is India only "becoming" (as another poster mentioned) a cell phone force to be reckoned with. It would seem China and India together would be calling the shots as those number are close to 2 billion.

Agreed. China more so than India. At least in the next ten years. Indian mobile purchase are still on the lowest end of the spectrum.
However the smartphone market in India is set to grow at around 70% yr on yr and currently smartphones account for only 15% of all mobile sold in India. Huge untapped market.

Only thing going for India is the population. 15% of Indian population is nearly half of American Population.
Came across this interesting article on Bloomberg on India's smartphone market and BB share:
Apple Cedes Surging India Smartphone Market to Nokia-RIM: Tech - BusinessWeek

[sam_b77]

Well I will be getting a Free BlackBerry 10 first release from RIM,
but I wont be dropping my 9790, or 9900 as my primary device until there is a BlackBerry 10 device with a Keyboard

so we'll have to say the bet is null

That Sir, would be classified as cheating. Of you are getting it free then obviously there would be no case for you buying it.
I would claim a victory under those circumstances.

[_StephenBB81]

That Sir, would be classified as cheating. Of you are getting it free then obviously there would be no case for you buying it.
I would claim a victory under those circumstances.

But it is not my fault RIM is giving me a free one,

I wouldn't have been buying it, not even after getting this Alpha, it did not entice me enough so say I like a touchscreen

I still hate touchscreen typing,

[sleepngbear]

But it is not my fault RIM is giving me a free one,

I wouldn't have been buying it, not even after getting this Alpha, it did not entice me enough so say I like a touchscreen

I still hate touchscreen typing,

Well this just cannot be. Everybody is buying touch screens now, the market has spoken, don't you know. You can't not like typing on a touch screen, or so I've been told. And told. And told.

But how is it that you're getting a freebie???

[_StephenBB81]

Well this just cannot be. Everybody is buying touch screens now, the market has spoken, don't you know. You can't not like typing on a touch screen, or so I've been told. And told. And told.

But how is it that you're getting a freebie???

MANY people will be getting a freebie

Attend BB10Jam
Receive a BlackBerry devAlpha
Write a BlackBerry 10 App and have it submitted to App world
Send RIM Back your BlackBerry devAlpha
RIM will send a FULL version BlackBerry 10 device to me

[Tre Lawrence]

Apple's OS is now to the point where it is going obsolete.

When you make statements that stretch the limits of incredulity like this one, keep in mind that it is on the internet. Forever. It is cached, and a record of your IP address links you to it for perpetuity. Your offspring will see it.

Ignore the people high-fiving you, and realize that when you say stuff that not only defy logic, but slap it dead in the face, they make other things you say drift away when casually confronted by the steadying breeze of common sense.

An "obsolete" OS is kicking RIM's behind. Yes, I know, people are sheep, there is a conspiracy to kill RIM and QNX is a game changer and all that good stuff. Till then, that obsolete OS is giving people ways to be more productive, and RIM is finally being smart enough to take some pointers.

[travaz]

This is a good thoughtful discussion (with the exception of a few) I will listen to Iphone live podcast now and again to see what the others are up to. I think Rene Richie is very good and makes good points. Last podcast the 3 folks were starting to complain a bit that the OS is getting stale and hasnt changed that much. I was ohhhh i think I have heard this before about BB. I think RIM is going to be a gamechanger and catch a lot of folks looking for new innovation. I found it interesting to hear a bit of negativity from the IOS camp. Jobs could have been right!

[mikelcal]

I must say I love you guys... All of you.

[addicted44]

70 million people would disagree with you.
You are talking from an American point of view.
Let me tell you what is happening in a country with a population of 1.2 Billion people...that's nearly 4 times America's population.
I was driving an listening to a popular FM channel in India. They started plugging their Radio App blackberry.
The ad went on saying how the channel is now available for "your Blackberry" and its free.
They plugged the BB App and said get it now for your BB and as an after thought they mentioned "also available on iPhone and iPad".
The app is Radio One on Blackberry...and in case you don't have a blackberry, they made one for iPhone.
Then there are the news apps. Almost all of the major Newspapers have a BB app.
Then there is one which has restaurant recommendations which ties in with Google Maps and takes you to the closest eatery and even has a social recommendations of whats good there.
I have apps on my BB to book tickets on the popular multiplexes. Apps to make payments for all sorts of services including train tickets, flight tickets and recharging Sat TV Boxes.
Indian Devs focus first on BB and then on other platforms.
This is the market which loves BB. Is invested with BB, and uses BBM as a social platform more than Facebook because the social platform is private and targeted and integrated with Facebook.
A country with a population of 1.2 billion where Apple has only a 2% share on smartphones and a country which is steadily becoming rich.
So RIM has a huge fanbase to build upon.
And I haven't even mentioned Indonesia yet, which is an actual BB nation with a huge population.
So really, what does America bring to the table...330 million people.... That's a nothing market now.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

As one of those India devs, this is true but incomplete. the dev tide is turning, and unfortunately BB10 is a key factor. People are not sure what direction RIM's development is going in. Another factor is that BB is really being hurt by cheap Android devices.

From a non-dev perspective, doing well in India is not doing anything for RIM as we can see from their financial reports. The problem is that they are replacing high margin Bold sales in the US with low margin Curve sales in India.

[mphillips828]

Yes, I realize this, that is why I said "this will be changing". Yes there is a larger world out side of NA. When it comes to economic power, right now a lot of it doesn't matter.

Not clear on why you say " I think that India will become a major factor in the mobile industry" . Doesn't India have some 850mil plus cell phone users now?

They do have a large number of cell phone users, but just like many other growing countries they are still in the low-end smartphone market i think for the general public...this will be changing and BlackBerry has an amazing foothold in these countries and will just push out a "Trade Up" program to get their new BB10 phones into the hands of everyone!!

[mikelcal]

When you make statements that stretch the limits of incredulity like this one, keep in mind that it is on the internet. Forever. It is cached, and a record of your IP address links you to it for perpetuity. Your offspring will see it.

Ignore the people high-fiving you, and realize that when you say stuff that not only defy logic, but slap it dead in the face, they make other things you say drift away when casually confronted by the steadying breeze of common sense.

An "obsolete" OS is kicking RIM's behind. Yes, I know, people are sheep, there is a conspiracy to kill RIM and QNX is a game changer and all that good stuff. Till then, that obsolete OS is giving people ways to be more productive, and RIM is finally being smart enough to take some pointers.

Well I think even Microsoft can take a hint. After years and years of selling the same OS, they wised up and have been changing their OS after having windows 2K with a skin for years and years. Vista sucked, windows 7 is making progress, but win 8 is totally different than what we are all used to. Granted they have gotten a lot of flack for it, but at least they are trying. I have seen every single version of Mac OS X, and I haven't seen much change, other than the desktop background that loads when it's installed. How many more iterations of OS X do we have to see before they ship OS XI?? Mission Control was a nice change, but I have no use for the Launchpad. But I'd rather not get stuck in whats past, or what I've said, but rather walk with my head up high towards that new BB10 smell.

[sam_b77]

As one of those India devs, this is true but incomplete. the dev tide is turning, and unfortunately BB10 is a key factor. People are not sure what direction RIM's development is going in. Another factor is that BB is really being hurt by cheap Android devices.

From a non-dev perspective, doing well in India is not doing anything for RIM as we can see from their financial reports. The problem is that they are replacing high margin Bold sales in the US with low margin Curve sales in India.

Well Android is here to stay. I agree with you on Android. But the major Android thrust in India is on the $70 phones. Those are the folks who don't even get a data plan. Would you really want to develop apps for Indian Android users knowing that the majority of the users don't have a data plan and most wouldn't spend a nickel (paisa) on apps.

I think Alec Saunders hit the nail on the head when he said that The fragmentation of Android is becoming a major problem for devs. I'm sure you can provide a better perspective on this. But that would have happened or would happen sooner or later. As Android matures it would evolve into something that even Google wouldn't recognise. Android is the species that mates with a lot of different species and so the gene pool is diverse and evolution will go off in mnay different direction to a point that in a few generations it wouldn't be recognisable as the original species. Amazon has already shown that.

IOS and BBOS are the ones which have a linear evolution and would not become a giant hydra headed monster.

[DanielFariasV]

I get it, consumers want a device that's capable of doing more. (video chat, Netflix, gaming, great apps). What's not to get?


Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk

LOL, Next time when trying to give us reasons for why the iphone is better, please try to not embarrass yourself.

[Tre Lawrence]

It doesn't make sense. You are clearly down on BB and pro iAnything, so why do you even bother coming here and posting at all?

There are plenty of iForums where you could post all your positive thoughts so why go out of your way to be negative?

Stewart, he replied to an, uh, interesting post with facts. What did he say in the post you quoted that was negative about RIM?

A love for another platform does not equal a hatred for RIM.

[the_sleuth]

My comment on this thread:
I see the diatribe of mudslinging between iOS fans and BB fans. How many threads is this now, you're not going to change each others views, LOL.

My comments to keyboard fans:

deRusett, I have been reading the same comments from many BB users. Majority of BB users still support RIM & BB because of best-in-class-keyboard. I think for this reason the first BBOS 10 phone will be a muted success maybe selling 1 to 2 million units. If RIM launched torch type phone with sliding keyboard along with London phone then sales would probably be over 2 million units and the media would report it a grand success with BB loyalists refreshing.

Not launching both phones together might be a strategic mistake. If sales don't match Galaxy line, then media will report it a failure. Look what happened to Nokia Lumia 900, it sold-out at AT&T, over 1 million units sold, but media report it a sales failure as it didn't match Galaxy S2 sales figures (it's on more Carriers) and oh the media love to compare it to iPhone sales.

I have been waiting for BBOS 10 phone for 12 months now. And I have been writing about it since I joined CrackBerry. When I finally have it in my hand, Xmas will come early this year. I would equate the feeling to when Leafs bring Lord Stanley's cup home. I'll be on cloud nine.

I remember the Bet now!

and even after having the devAlpha, I wont be Buying the first BlackBerry 10 device unless it has a Keyboard

The devAlpha is a nice piece of hardware, it had very little on day 1, but a crap load of bar files have started appearing, and a few code samples have been compiled and show some cool functionality

I still hate typing on a touchscreen but the OS has some promise if the apps that are made just to showcase functionality have anything to say