1. stevenpow's Avatar
    well apple just let out the secret about a killswitch embedded into the software
    read the story here Steve Jobs Confirms iPhone Has a Kill Switch - Yahoo! News
    08-13-08 12:39 AM
  2. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    Disclosed or not it seems like a good idea designed to proactively
    protect it's customers from known, verified or suspicious
    threats to their privacy and identity, so I'm good with this.
    Last edited by amazinglygraceless; 08-13-08 at 12:57 AM.
    08-13-08 12:48 AM
  3. Arninetyes's Avatar
    Disclosed or not it seems like a good idea designed to proactively
    protect it's customers from known, verified or suspicious
    threats to their privacy and identity, so I'm good with this.
    But what if the REAL threat to customer privacy is the ability of Apple to control what you have on your phone AFTER you chose to put it there? Just a thought.
    08-13-08 02:16 AM
  4. Kronk's Avatar
    If you can't trust Apple, who can you trust?
    08-13-08 02:38 AM
  5. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    But what if the REAL threat to customer privacy is the ability of Apple to control what you have on your phone AFTER you chose to put it there? Just a thought.
    I guess you could make that leap if you want. I am just not a paranoid
    sort that sees some nefarious intent in something like this. (And I swear
    I am not saying you are either)
    08-13-08 02:55 AM
  6. mattkrass's Avatar
    Eh, I'm on the fence here. I agree with AGs points on the usefulness, but I disagree with the fact it seems to do this silently without any notification or warning or confirmation. Users should at least be informed what has transpired, and warned upfront this is a possibility, and be allowed to turn it off. It's just the age old debate of who is really in charge? The people who created the technology or the people who bought it from them? Personally if I dropped any amount of money on a device I expect it to be under my control, this is something that is non-negotiable. If users want to choose to opt out of a security feature, they should be able to. I'd probably leave it active as long as it notified me ahead of time, simply because then it's my choice to accept Apple's help, it wasn't surreptitiously crammed down my throat against my will.

    This also demonstrates another facet of Apple I dislike, they treat their users like toddlers that need them (Apple) to control their digital lives for them. It's one thing to offer help and another to not offer independence.
    08-13-08 04:07 AM
  7. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    Well said Matt and while up to a point I get you, I think the
    point of this is when Apple discovers something in their
    store that may put their customers at risk, they take
    the steps on their end to minimize it.

    To the toddler issue, there are all levels of users. How many
    times do we tell people get good AV s/ware, get a firewall,
    backup often only to hear the horror stories of those who
    failed to heed the advice. I still see nothing wrong with this.

    And can you imagine the headache to Apple if they left a
    malicious app available in their store. I think it is a smart
    move that protects both the user and the provider.
    08-13-08 04:22 AM
  8. i2sam77@yahoo.com's Avatar
    All this can be avoided by jail breaking your phone. Does RIM do the same thing? Can they add And remove stuff from your Phone? Does BB talk to RIM for updates ?
    08-13-08 07:44 AM
  9. Owensdus's Avatar
    It says they havent used the kill switch, That is a bunch of bs. I have an Iphone I am a HUGE modder and helper to the community when it comes to modding. I have seen a couple of peoples phone apps locked up due to apples KILL SWITCH. Oh and this was my main reason to switch to a BB, Which I got yesterday .......... Whoot Whoot
    08-13-08 08:14 AM
  10. FF22's Avatar
    Well, if this Apple stuff "irritates" you, I read to day that Skype quite possibly has a backdoor that allows them/others to read/listen supposedly encrypted communications.

    I guess this is what RIM/BB fought with India about - the ability to get into people's private data with a back door - after all everyone is a potential terrorist and everybody's private stuff does not really need to be 'that' private!

    Now, just because BB took on India does not mean that they don't have some secret way in and have shared that with other governments - not saying that they do but just conceivably....
    08-13-08 09:59 AM
  11. Abercrombie's Avatar
    do people still use the iphone? lol JK
    i think this could be a bit of "invasion of privacy" but its for a good cause
    08-13-08 10:23 AM
  12. mattkrass's Avatar
    Well said Matt and while up to a point I get you, I think the
    point of this is when Apple discovers something in their
    store that may put their customers at risk, they take
    the steps on their end to minimize it.

    To the toddler issue, there are all levels of users. How many
    times do we tell people get good AV s/ware, get a firewall,
    backup often only to hear the horror stories of those who
    failed to heed the advice. I still see nothing wrong with this.

    And can you imagine the headache to Apple if they left a
    malicious app available in their store. I think it is a smart
    move that protects both the user and the provider.
    No disagreement about the end purpose of this, I don't think Apple is out to invade the privacy of it's users on some wild conspiracy theory. I just think it should be something the user is informed of ahead of time, and have the option to opt out. By default it should be enabled, this way those users have to consciously and actively decide to opt out, which should handle most users who don't heed advice. However that 'helpless user' thing also bothers me.

    When you own a car, does your mechanic run by over and over to gas it up, change your oil, clean it up, air up the tires? No, it's maintenance that the car needs that a responsible car owner should be doing. I disagree with anyone who needs anyone to babysit their appliances. Your computer also needs maintenance and I don't think ignorance or laziness on the part of the computer owner is an excuse for the problems they experience. I do consult work for computer and security systems and I do fix these problems all the time, but it does cost the user and I do educate them on how to fix it in the future. It's not really a difficult process, my father and mother and aunts and uncles are all capable of doing it. Same goes for your phone, you should be able to disable any of the 'big brother' features if you want, but the phone is your responsibility, if it gets screwed up you didn't take care of it.

    People have issues with maintaining things because they get coddled, they have for years, ever since the advent of the cheap Wal-mart personal computer and Geek Squad, people haven't bothered learning how to use the equipment they buy.
    08-13-08 01:19 PM
  13. Arninetyes's Avatar
    "Hello, this is Apple Customer Support. We've just determined that an application you bought from the iTunes store can cause reliability issues with your iPhone. We advise you to remove "Movie Times" immediately to prevent any problems. If you prefer, we can delete it remotely and credit your iTunes account for the purchase. Thank you for your patronage."

    VS

    "Hey, Dude? What the frak happened to "Movie Times"? I just used it yesterday..."
    08-13-08 01:43 PM
  14. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    "Hello, this is Apple Customer Support. We've just determined that an application you bought from the iTunes store can cause reliability issues with your iPhone. We advise you to remove "Movie Times" immediately to prevent any problems. If you prefer, we can delete it remotely and credit your iTunes account for the purchase. Thank you for your patronage."

    VS

    "Hey, Dude? What the frak happened to "Movie Times"? I just used it yesterday..."
    Arnie, I totally agree that the method you outlined is how it should
    be handled. But that isn't the point. The article and the OP makes it
    seem as if Apple is engaged in some cloak and dagger ish with regards
    to the IPhone, and I don't see this "kill switch" thing as being that. Nor
    do I think it's existence means that Apple is hiding all kinds of nefarious,
    big brother s/ware in their devices. Just my opinion though.
    08-13-08 01:51 PM
  15. detman101's Avatar
    When technology is designed for the masses, just like anything else nowadays, it is designed to cater to the LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR.

    That denominator is the numbskull fanboys/fangirls that simply want the device because it's the "In thing to have" right now. These morons are the same ones that have to call customer service everytime they want to check their voicemail or download an app to their device.

    This killswitch is just Apple's way of dealing with the numbskulls that will buy their device.

    My 2cents...
    Dm
    08-13-08 03:13 PM
  16. dmnall's Avatar
    I feel that the Kill Switch can be a good thing but what I don't like about it is that Apple can take off any programs from the iPhone as they please! I can see if they sent an e-mail to the owner of the phone stating that a certain program can cause an issue and is recommended as a security risk and give you the choice to manually uninstall it or they will do it for you would be better! I just don't like the fact that they can just log into your phone and take off any programs that they don't want you to have! Sorry to big brotherish for my tastes. I will stay with my BlackBerry!

    Charlie
    08-13-08 03:15 PM
  17. mattkrass's Avatar
    When technology is designed for the masses, just like anything else nowadays, it is designed to cater to the LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR.

    That denominator is the numbskull fanboys/fangirls that simply want the device because it's the "In thing to have" right now. These morons are the same ones that have to call customer service everytime they want to check their voicemail or download an app to their device.

    This killswitch is just Apple's way of dealing with the numbskulls that will buy their device.

    My 2cents...
    Dm
    That is a terrible approach, things like that are why the average test score are dropping left and right. People patronize the "numbskulls" and baby them to get things out of them like money or appreciation and as a result they don't learn to deal with things themselves. With people getting dumber by the day the last thing we need to be doing is catering to them. Make them learn, make them work a little for it, nobody in the mainstream populous deserves to be excepted from taking care of themselves and its downright atrocious how bad this situation is getting. An uneducated group of people is never the solution. If it wasn't so easy to brush off people wouldn't skip out on learning things. It's depressing that as a third year college student I am still meeting people my age that can't figure out the simplest things because their professors/parents/relatives always did it for them or handled it without teaching them how to. People should be less helpless and by taking the responsibility out of their hands and not even offering to let them take it on themselves Apple is partly responsible for this plague of a problem.
    08-13-08 03:51 PM
  18. detman101's Avatar
    That is a terrible approach, things like that are why the average test score are dropping left and right. People patronize the "numbskulls" and baby them to get things out of them like money or appreciation and as a result they don't learn to deal with things themselves. With people getting dumber by the day the last thing we need to be doing is catering to them. Make them learn, make them work a little for it, nobody in the mainstream populous deserves to be excepted from taking care of themselves and its downright atrocious how bad this situation is getting. An uneducated group of people is never the solution. If it wasn't so easy to brush off people wouldn't skip out on learning things. It's depressing that as a third year college student I am still meeting people my age that can't figure out the simplest things because their professors/parents/relatives always did it for them or handled it without teaching them how to. People should be less helpless and by taking the responsibility out of their hands and not even offering to let them take it on themselves Apple is partly responsible for this plague of a problem.
    Welcome to modern day America....
    This is what the smarter portion of the population has to deal with.

    Dm
    08-13-08 04:05 PM
  19. wnm's Avatar
    08-13-08 04:46 PM
  20. mattkrass's Avatar
    Welcome to modern day America....
    This is what the smarter portion of the population has to deal with.

    Dm
    That attitude is why this problem gets worse on a day by day basis. If those of us in the "smarter portion" (And I use the term with great reservation) were kinder, and more patient and helped the "others" we could turn our portion in to the majority. It's a wonderful feeling to understand things and I find most people jump at the opportunity after that first step. This is a problem to be solved, not dealt with.
    08-13-08 05:01 PM
  21. smokn05's Avatar
    That attitude is why this problem gets worse on a day by day basis. If those of us in the "smarter portion" (And I use the term with great reservation) were kinder, and more patient and helped the "others" we could turn our portion in to the majority. It's a wonderful feeling to understand things and I find most people jump at the opportunity after that first step. This is a problem to be solved, not dealt with.
    I agree. If we keep lowering the standards to accommodate the "lowest common denominator" we'll end up like the movie Idiocracy. Instead of a fictional futuristic comedy it will be a historical documentary of the decline of humanity.

    Shame on Apple for thinking for their customers instead of teaching them. Why stop at removing programs they think will harm the customer? Why not push programs down to the phone that they think will help the customer? Why not have Apple tell me it's a workday and auto set the phone alarm to get me up for work? I mean Apple knows what is best for me right?

    I can run my life just fine without any intervention from a gov or corporation thank you!
    08-13-08 06:52 PM
  22. tmember's Avatar
    How do we know that by just using an iphone, Apple can't collect any info it wants? Why be more suspicious of killswitch than anything else Apple put in there?
    08-13-08 07:25 PM
  23. BB7290grl74's Avatar
    IDK...me, personally, I like to "learn the hard way" about the things I do, have, etc. You are more likely to learn from a major screw up than by reading a pamphlet. I agree that babying the perpetually inept is a terrible mistake. Our school systems actually lower the standards and grade on the curve to float kids through. This is how they achieve high numbers and larger grants from Uncle Sam. Maybe this is why most kids don't leave home until they're 30. Shame on any big company, Gov. Agency that enable consumer ignorance, Apple included.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-13-08 08:34 PM
  24. detman101's Avatar
    IDK...me, personally, I like to "learn the hard way" about the things I do, have, etc. You are more likely to learn from a major screw up than by reading a pamphlet. I agree that babying the perpetually inept is a terrible mistake. Our school systems actually lower the standards and grade on the curve to float kids through. This is how they achieve high numbers and larger grants from Uncle Sam. Maybe this is why most kids don't leave home until they're 30. Shame on any big company, Gov. Agency that enable consumer ignorance, Apple included.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Thats the exact reason these rejects stay home till they're 30. They haven't been given the skills to hack it in the real world. I mean, everyone has given them an easy ride from the time they've been in grade school and they consistently lower the standards so these numbskulls can continue to pass.

    sorry if I'm flying off the handle but I once worked in an area full of the people I'm talking about and it drove me nuts on a daily basis. how the heck did these idiots get a job without even being able to speak properly or know what office etiquette is? how did they get that job without even knowing remotely how to SPELL etiquette?!?!?!

    ARRRRGHHHH....


    Dm
    08-14-08 03:37 PM
  25. talltubatom's Avatar
    I don't think anyone should be able to mess with my stuff unless I give them permission.

    Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security.
    -Ben Franklin
    08-14-08 03:59 PM
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