1. Dolphie's Avatar
    My question is - now that BB is hybrid droid sorta BB - why not just go fully with a Droid? What is the logic behind a hybrid device?

    BB used to symbolize a phone was secure and trusted.
    Unlike the Droid/iPhone environments - BB has not been hacked or infected.

    I have loved the BB since it first came out. It was compatible with all my requirements.
    My use was small business and personal.

    My clientele base loved BB as well.

    The original founders - lost their vision and became too focused on living the good life. They did not know how to deal with success and made many poor decisions - especially that of not listening to the consumer base or paying attention to the market, including potential competitors.

    Which is why we are here today:

    I do not like Droids or iPhones for various reasons. I will list one of those reasons below:

    Part of my role in IT is to help clients (mostly small/medium businesses - some personal use consumers) achieve their goals simply, efficiently, with minimal headaches.

    The Droid and for some time the iPhone would create headaches for my clients. Headaches that included loss of time which means loss of business which leads to potential closure of business and job losses.

    Too frequently Google was so intensely anti-MS they would hurt the consumer just to get digs in at MS. Products that should have been seamless were not. Third party apps were required for continuity. Then google would break the apps which would in turn cause additional headaches for the consumer.
    What should, again, be efficient, easy and not require an inordinate amount of time - became a fight, a battle, to conduct business.

    IMNSHO - that is not quality customer care and it is petty. It does not advance technology, it inhibits it.

    Why? Consumers don't want to deal with new products because they KNOW there will be major battles to ensure compatibility. Loss of compatibility means loss of time and revenue. For small businesses this could mean the difference between going under or succeeding.

    A business's goal should be to be the best there is in the market. This attracts consumers as they know their life will be easier with products that are well designed, compatible and success focused.

    To have your mission statement be about taking down an opponent is unwise. Google has become worse than the big bad MS and has undermined a market that could be readily streamlined for CONSUMERS.

    I was initially optimistic when Chen took the wheel. I could understand the focus on the software. I could understand outsourcing the hardware. What I do not understand is why merge with a company that is actually a competitor.

    With the direction Chen has taken this company - the main offerings are for Droid hybrids - which sets BB up for failure.

    The question then becomes: So, rather than purchasing a Droid hybrid - why not just get the full Droid? or iPhone?

    If the phone is no longer going to have the BB OS - it no longer has that layer of security that it is famous and respected for.

    Droids are easily hacked/infected. BBs were not.

    Now - for most BB affiliated phones - there is no longer a standard BB OS for the SMALL business or combo business/personal usage.

    So... - why would one choose a BB phone over a Droid or iPhone? What are the advantages?

    Again - die hard BB user. Making decisions for self and my clientele base.

    Note to forum mods: apologies in advance for potentially mis-posting this. Also, if there are attributes that should be set to make it easier to reply to, please advise. I love these forums but this is the first time I have posted here. This site has been incredibly helpful and some of the posters are beyond incredible brains.
    Thank you in advance.
    Last edited by Dolphie; 07-19-17 at 02:53 PM.
    07-19-17 01:25 PM
  2. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Droids are easily hacked/infected. BBs were not.
    The question then becomes: So, rather than purchasing a Droid hybrid - why not just get the full Droid? or iPhone?
    Show me a BlackBerry based Android that has been hacked/infected. You can't. There's your answer, at least for some folks.
    07-19-17 02:49 PM
  3. yessuz's Avatar
    Blaize, well, infected - possible.
    Hacked - not yet.
    Not rooted as well.

    BUT - as we all know, majority of people do not give a ****e about this. to be honest, me too.

    for me, the only differenciator is PHYSICAL KEYBOARD.

    for glass slabs - there is PLENTY of cheaper and even better glass slabs, and there is no reason to overpay for any security, when everything you have, is actually stored in iCloud and Google and can be hacked from that end (*cough* icloud *cough* fappening *cough*)
    rayporsche and Dolphie like this.
    07-19-17 03:15 PM
  4. thurask's Avatar
    Security is only as good as the weakest link, which is more often than not the user.

    Anyway, I see the physical keyboard as the only reason to pick up a new BlackBerry, and that's only if one values physical keyboards that much. Otherwise it's a tepid rebranded Alcatel with a nebulous update policy and a handful of apps that can be put on any other Android phone.
    07-19-17 04:52 PM
  5. gebco's Avatar
    I like the fact that there is no access to root, which means malicious apps as well. In addition, so far BlackBerry has stayed true to monthly security updates for my Priv, although one could argue being stuck on Marshmallow is less secure.
    Whatever future phone I choose, I need to see evidence of continued security updates, be that BlackBerry or other.
    Dolphie likes this.
    07-19-17 05:23 PM
  6. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    Price can also be a factor. The flagships of iPhone, Galaxy and Google Pixel can go to $800 or higher, depending on the options selected.

    I would not spend that much for a phone, so the BlackBerry KEYone is better priced for me.
    Dolphie likes this.
    07-19-17 06:12 PM
  7. twelvezero8's Avatar
    yeah I'm moving on to the oneplus brand. I'm at peace. thank blackberry for all they did for the industry and the great years as I was a loyal customer. time to move on.
    07-19-17 09:35 PM
  8. spantch101's Avatar
    For some of us, it's solely brand loyalty. I have always been happy with my BlackBerry devices, so why not support them. I have other devices too. I had a problem with buying every flagship from every company. Anything new and I had to have it. But now married with 2 kids I'm not allowed anymore lol. I'm not sure I care about who's actually making the physical devices, like bla1se said, I haven't heard of a BlackBerry android device geting hacked. For years our BlackBerry devices were made in plants around the world. Just because a named company is in charge of the hardware now isn't really a big deal if they know what makes a BlackBerry a BlackBerry. Being made in canada or north America doesn't make it any better or worse. I understand some people wish BlackBerry was able to keep their in house software / operating system. But it was failing and every device that was produced had fewer and fewer people wanting to jump onboard. By the end of bb10 it was only the BlackBerry faithful that were early adopters that scooped up the new devices. Android may not be perfect but it keeps getting better and it wil continue to do so for a long time with the way the market is going now. So just be happy we can still tote a BlackBerry branded device and turn heads while people ask, what is that? Me: it's my new BlackBerry and it's awesome!

    Posted with my good ol reliable classic
    07-20-17 12:15 AM
  9. yessuz's Avatar
    Price can also be a factor. The flagships of iPhone, Galaxy and Google Pixel can go to $800 or higher, depending on the options selected.

    I would not spend that much for a phone, so the BlackBerry KEYone is better priced for me.
    Price is the factor?! You love to pay more?!

    Alcatel Idol 4S - which is DTEK 60 by Blackberry, costs £243.43 while DTEK60 is ~£350 (prices from Amazon)

    soooooooooooo why to take DTEK60 if you get SAME device (- bb apps, which can be loaded free of charge but with some really non-intrusive ads, or for very small fee, which in the end of the day, after 1 or 2 years will total to amount which still be less than price difference) minus "sucurity" (which no one cares about to be honest) and BlackBerry logo?

    Actually, you can get other devices from other manufacturers with same or better specs for same or less amount of money. So - no, it's not the price.

    And please, don't start to compare KEYone to Pixel, Galaxy S8 or iPhone. it's different price AND performance category.

    don't get me wrong - I find KEYone a lovely device. very nice device. But it is a mid range device at best (hell, SD821 is already a mid range in 2017) for super high premium. And I would be a bit angry if I had to pay for that
    you take any device (glass slab) with same specs (Asus, moto, lenovo, whatever) and compare prices vs KEYone. and then you see the premium of keyboard. which, as I said, is the only differentiator.

    all other are absolutely same glass slabs. and in that case you just chose what looks better and costs less. because - logic.
    07-20-17 07:18 AM
  10. yessuz's Avatar
    For some of us, it's solely brand loyalty. I have always been happy with my BlackBerry devices, so why not support them. I have other devices too. I had a problem with buying every flagship from every company. Anything new and I had to have it. But now married with 2 kids I'm not allowed anymore lol. I'm not sure I care about who's actually making the physical devices, like bla1se said, I haven't heard of a BlackBerry android device geting hacked. For years our BlackBerry devices were made in plants around the world. Just because a named company is in charge of the hardware now isn't really a big deal if they know what makes a BlackBerry a BlackBerry. Being made in canada or north America doesn't make it any better or worse. I understand some people wish BlackBerry was able to keep their in house software / operating system. But it was failing and every device that was produced had fewer and fewer people wanting to jump onboard. By the end of bb10 it was only the BlackBerry faithful that were early adopters that scooped up the new devices. Android may not be perfect but it keeps getting better and it wil continue to do so for a long time with the way the market is going now. So just be happy we can still tote a BlackBerry branded device and turn heads while people ask, what is that? Me: it's my new BlackBerry and it's awesome!

    Posted with my good ol reliable classic
    but sadly, essentially, this is not a blackberry device
    rayporsche likes this.
    07-20-17 07:19 AM
  11. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    but sadly, essentially, this is not a blackberry device
    For far too many BB10 wasn't viewed as a "true" BlackBerry device...
    07-20-17 07:42 AM
  12. yessuz's Avatar
    For far too many BB10 wasn't viewed as a "true" BlackBerry device...
    oh come on. All BB10 at least were manufactured, "marketed" (emphasis on quotation marks) and sold by BlackBerry
    Dolphie likes this.
    07-20-17 07:45 AM
  13. thurask's Avatar
    oh come on. All BB10 at least were manufactured, "marketed" (emphasis on quotation marks) and sold by BlackBerry
    But it doesn't fit their arbitrary rules, therefore it's not a true Scotsman BlackBerry. Maybe because it isn't running BBOS, maybe because it doesn't use BIS, maybe because whoever uses it doesn't get off their lawn, whatever, it's just not real.
    skinnymike1 and app_Developer like this.
    07-20-17 07:59 AM
  14. Carjackd's Avatar
    oh come on. All BB10 at least were manufactured, "marketed" (emphasis on quotation marks) and sold by BlackBerry
    I think people need to get over it. This device is probably the best BlackBerry device since the Bold. The licensing is sold by BlackBerry they are still making money on this . It's BlackBerry 's interpretation of android . People did say the same thing about BB10. People in general have problems with change. It's time to move on.

    Bb10 has pretty much ran it's course. BBOS ..well there is still people hanging onto that too. It's either android or IOS...thats it. Although I do feel there is room in the market for a third OS...it won't be bb10
    07-20-17 08:11 AM
  15. conite's Avatar
    don't get me wrong - I find KEYone a lovely device. very nice device. But it is a mid range device at best (hell, SD821 is already a mid range in 2017) for super high premium. And I would be a bit angry if I had to pay for that
    There seems to be a train of thought that the SoC alone determines the "range" of a device, and the $/SoC determines the value of a device. By this logic, we should all just buy the ZTE Nubia Z17 and be done with it.



    I believe it's far more complex than that, and it depends on what features make something a premium device to someone.

    I CAN compare the KEYᵒⁿᵉ to the S8, and declare it both superior, and a much better value. Others may not, and that's fine.
    Last edited by conite; 07-20-17 at 08:30 AM.
    Dolphie likes this.
    07-20-17 08:15 AM
  16. yessuz's Avatar
    There seems to be a train of thought that the SoC alone determines the "range" of a device, and the $/SoC determines the value of a device. By this logic, we should all just buy the ZTE Nubia Z17 and be done with it.



    I believe it's far more complex than that, and it depends on what features make something a premium device to someone.

    I CAN compare the KEYᵒⁿᵉ to the S8, and declare it both superior, and a much better value. Others may not, and that's fine.
    Well, that's the point. ZTE Nubia is 835, with whole bunch of RAM etc. it is just much better device PERFORMANCE and PRICE wise, that it's just ridiculous.

    But it has one major flaw - no physical keyboard.

    I mean come on, this is just as simple as that:
    a) your choice is between iOS and Android. If you chose iOS - then you got like 5-6 devices: older or newer, smaller or bigger, more power or less power, more expensive or less expensive to chose from. and that's it. All those iOS devices will perform the same. If you choose android, then you have one more layer to filter:
    b) PKB or glass slab. If you chose a PKB - you essentially chose from 1 single device. If you go for Glass Slab - then you have a variety choices which slab to choose. And although they all will do and will look very similar, you have choice of price vs performance.

    essentially, for most apps, even SD 430 or 450 is sufficient enough for daily tasks. It has enough computing power. But these devices are more like entry devices. and priced like that.
    then you have mid range SOCs, 6** series, which performance wise, perform between latest 8** series and 4** series. and they are priced, usually, below devices with 821/835, but a bit more expensive than 430 devices.
    and 835 are devices with top performance. and top prices

    You talk about features - I wonder, what features, apart "security" (which no one gives a damn) and physical keyboard can BlackBerry offer in order to expect others to pay more than comparable devices?

    there was lengthy discussion here. we see Moto Z Play, Asus, others selling same spec'ed (same, mean SOC and Performance) devices for half the price. and if ANYONE would came back to me saying - I need to pay 100 pounds more for glass slab as BlackBerry vs Moto Z - I would probably offered them to have a head x-ray. Because there is virtually no advantages against others.

    But with PKB - yeah, I CAN see the additional value above other comparable androids. it just hurts me, that because I need PKB, I have to pay atrocious premium.
    I mean, come on, take the amazon pricing:
    Moto Z play - £339 - £359
    Same specced KEYone - £499
    Difference I find between those two phones is just the PKB. They got same battery (and very similar battery life by the way), got same SOC, well - same quality materials, and same amount of RAM. it's very and very comparable device.
    and as I said - it hurts me, as a customer, no matter how loyal to BlackBerry, as the company or brand I am, that for the only differentiator - PKB, I have to pay 160 pounds more.
    This is the price gap. this is HUGE price gap. and I have a hard time to justify, for myself, that I need to pay that.

    You know, for 160 pounds... I can buy ANOTHER SD625 glass slab device!
    Original Xiaomi Redmi 4 Prime 3GB+32GB Snapdragon 625 4G LTE Smartphone MIUI8 EU | eBay

    that's the problem. I always said that this is a problem.

    KEYone is nice device. but premium for it is very questionable.
    Dolphie likes this.
    07-20-17 09:31 AM
  17. conite's Avatar
    Well, that's the point. ZTE Nubia is 835, with whole bunch of RAM etc. it is just much better device PERFORMANCE and PRICE wise, that it's just ridiculous.

    But it has one major flaw - no physical keyboard.

    I mean come on, this is just as simple as that:
    a) your choice is between iOS and Android. If you chose iOS - then you got like 5-6 devices: older or newer, smaller or bigger, more power or less power, more expensive or less expensive to chose from. and that's it. All those iOS devices will perform the same. If you choose android, then you have one more layer to filter:
    b) PKB or glass slab. If you chose a PKB - you essentially chose from 1 single device. If you go for Glass Slab - then you have a variety choices which slab to choose. And although they all will do and will look very similar, you have choice of price vs performance.

    essentially, for most apps, even SD 430 or 450 is sufficient enough for daily tasks. It has enough computing power. But these devices are more like entry devices. and priced like that.
    then you have mid range SOCs, 6** series, which performance wise, perform between latest 8** series and 4** series. and they are priced, usually, below devices with 821/835, but a bit more expensive than 430 devices.
    and 835 are devices with top performance. and top prices

    You talk about features - I wonder, what features, apart "security" (which no one gives a damn) and physical keyboard can BlackBerry offer in order to expect others to pay more than comparable devices?

    there was lengthy discussion here. we see Moto Z Play, Asus, others selling same spec'ed (same, mean SOC and Performance) devices for half the price. and if ANYONE would came back to me saying - I need to pay 100 pounds more for glass slab as BlackBerry vs Moto Z - I would probably offered them to have a head x-ray. Because there is virtually no advantages against others.

    But with PKB - yeah, I CAN see the additional value above other comparable androids. it just hurts me, that because I need PKB, I have to pay atrocious premium.
    I mean, come on, take the amazon pricing:
    Moto Z play - £339 - £359
    Same specced KEYone - £499
    Difference I find between those two phones is just the PKB. They got same battery (and very similar battery life by the way), got same SOC, well - same quality materials, and same amount of RAM. it's very and very comparable device.
    and as I said - it hurts me, as a customer, no matter how loyal to BlackBerry, as the company or brand I am, that for the only differentiator - PKB, I have to pay 160 pounds more.
    This is the price gap. this is HUGE price gap. and I have a hard time to justify, for myself, that I need to pay that.

    You know, for 160 pounds... I can buy ANOTHER SD625 glass slab device!
    Original Xiaomi Redmi 4 Prime 3GB+32GB Snapdragon 625 4G LTE Smartphone MIUI8 EU | eBay

    that's the problem. I always said that this is a problem.

    KEYone is nice device. but premium for it is very questionable.
    By this logic, no one should be buying an S8, or Pixel XL. But they are. Not everyone is buying the Nubia which offers many of the same specs for less than half the price.

    You're right, there are a lot of choices in slabs - but it's not simply about specs/price ratios. There are a lot of intangibles too - aesthetics, brand loyalty, particular features, etc.

    As far as the KEYᵒⁿᵉ is concerned, I would take it over the S8 even if they were the same price. What does that say about the value argument? Being far cheaper just makes it an even better deal in my eyes. To me it's a steal.
    07-20-17 11:09 AM
  18. anon(10268214)'s Avatar
    You want a reason to buy a BlackBerry Android? More secure, more updates, a great suite of productivity apps included for free, and no bloat. There are Androids out there so bloated, you can't even install Playstore. Lol.
    Dolphie likes this.
    07-20-17 11:23 AM
  19. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    .....As far as the KEYᵒⁿᵉ is concerned, I would take it over the S8 even if they were the same price. What does that say about the value argument? Being far cheaper just makes it an even better deal in my eyes. To me it's a steal.
    I agree. I like that the BlackBerry KEYone's features such as the keyboard, software, physical design, and many more intangibles that I don't see in the more expensive competitors.

    I know I could buy a low-range android, but if I did, it would just be for a back-up phone. I am glad I can still buy BlackBerry.
    07-20-17 11:34 AM
  20. Avenzuno's Avatar
    yeah I'm moving on to the oneplus brand. I'm at peace. thank blackberry for all they did for the industry and the great years as I was a loyal customer. time to move on.
    I happen to care about software updates, including security ones. Is the OnePlus 5 any better than a KEYone in getting these on a timely basis? Also, for the life of the Android phone use-wise I think one can hope for only one major OS update (to O for example), unless it's a Pixel. I myself prefer not to type on glass, but I do see value in a OnePlus product.

    Posted via CB10 from my 100-4 Passport SE
    Dolphie likes this.
    07-20-17 12:09 PM
  21. twelvezero8's Avatar
    I happen to care about software updates, including security ones. Is the OnePlus 5 any better than a KEYone in getting these on a timely basis? Also, for the life of the Android phone use-wise I think one can hope for only one major OS update (to O for example), unless it's a Pixel. I myself prefer not to type on glass, but I do see value in a OnePlus product.

    Posted via CB10 from my 100-4 Passport SE
    Well they have been updated to nougat.... Priv hasn't. Security updates I'm not so sure of. With that being said not worried about security as much as some want people to be. One plus for me seems to be best bang for buck right now.
    07-20-17 12:27 PM
  22. Mansuet's Avatar
    Android Blackberry software is closer to stock android (which many people like), which generally make a phone more snappy than heavily skinned devices.

    Blackberry launcher is better than most launchers available on android and most of its features can be disabled to become even more like stock.

    Android Blackberry phones has sound design principles only can be matched by Alcatel Idols boasting a front facing stereo speakers.

    Blackberry virtual keyboard is still the best in class. Regarding a physical keyboard Blackberry has no competition.

    Blackberry has proved themselves capable with the camera through a KeyOne. The KeyOne has better camera the Moto G+ which also uses the same camera sensor as the Pixel. KeyOne also beat Samsung S8+ for that matter.

    Security updates, root of trust and productivity apps make android Blackberry an interesting device to hold.

    Most of all, the history, the legacy, the Blackberry name and the Crackberry community makes using android Blackberry an experience that few other companies can match.

    I Thank You!

    Posted via CB10
    Dolphie likes this.
    07-20-17 12:36 PM
  23. neefer's Avatar
    My question is - now that BB is hybrid droid sorta BB - why not just go fully with a Droid? What is the logic behind a hybrid device?
    Physical Keyboard. Period. End of sentence. End of chapter. Close the book.

    Someone did the math in another thread comparing the K1 specs to other devices with similar specs, and concluded the "upcharge" for having a PKB is about $200.

    My smartphone path has been Bold 9000 --> Bold 9900 --> Q10 --> Passport --> KeyOne.

    I had the BB OS7 Bold's for about 3 years each, and each of my prior BB10 devices for around 2 years each.

    $200 divided by 24 months of having massively increased productivity via PKB, compared to typing on glass = $8.33 per month.

    That's a bleepity-bleep BARGAIN.

    They can have my PKB when they pry it out of my cold dead hands.
    Dolphie likes this.
    07-20-17 01:41 PM
  24. bh7171's Avatar
    I agree that the physical keyboard is the difference. In regards to slabs everyone else has been there and done that in every possible way. Shoot I have a S7 Edge with the HUB subscription, Nova Launcher and the fantastic BlackBerry VKB. It's as close to a ideal Android slab with BlackBerry sauce as one can get. However this damn Classic on BlackBerry 10 keeps drawing me back to feel the keys, utilize shortcuts, track pad, long presses on the tool belt, speaker and call quality, etc is unmatched. Although the SOC is old to most it can perform functions and manage email tasks (important for my needs) faster than my S7 Edge in so many ways. I have realized that the true innovation in the mobile hand set realm plateaued probably @'14-15. I also realized having the latest Android OS is not as critical if the version is stable. My '14 Samsung Tab Pro on KitKat 4.4 (that I can split screen) still operates as well as my S7 E in most ways albeit fractionally slower. Most everything Android in annual updates has been so incremental, like Apple. That BlackBerry 10 was updated for 4 years similarly was exceptional.

    Via the Cobalt Classic
    Dolphie likes this.
    07-20-17 03:22 PM
  25. Slash82's Avatar
    I will stay with BlackBerry as long as my Passport SE will fit my needs.
    I love all about the Passport - especially BlackBerry OS.
    Using a BlackBerry never was about latest specs., best camera, most apps, etc.

    I was about getting things done.

    So WhatApp is a big thing for me because 99% of people over here use it.

    But no Android-Berry for me.

    Posted via CB10
    Dolphie and rayporsche like this.
    07-20-17 03:30 PM
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