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  1. yorkshireman2's Avatar
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    Default Should RIM have only TWO phones?

    There is one iPhone. As such Apple get the economies of scale of producing a single model.

    RIM in the meantime has countless different models ranging from the incredibly cheap and plastic budget models up to the quality of the 9900.

    Is this multitude of models confusing the market place?

    Is it about time that RIM followed Apple and Samsung's lead and just had one or two models, e.g. one with a keyboard and one without.

    This would make promoting the phones easier and less confused, it would be a cleaner proposition in the eyes of the consumer, and surely there would be huge economies of scale to be gained in focusing all production, distribution, and marketing on one or two models than on a dozen.
  2. CHIP72's Avatar
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    I personally think RIM should have four Blackberry 10 OS models:

    *Portrait keyboard bar-shaped form factor (i.e. like the current Bolds and Curves)
    *Portrait slide-out keyboard form factor (i.e. like the Torch 9810)
    *Landscape slide-out keyboard form factor (i.e. like the Droid 1/2/3/4 and many feature phones)
    *All-touchscreen form factor (i.e. like the Torch 9850 and all/most iOS, Android OS, and Windows Phone OS devices) with a 4.0" to 4.5" screen

    All BB 10 devices should have a capacitive touch screen.
    http://mowned.com/sig/chip72.jpg

    Other notable devices:
    Windows laptops: Asus VivoBook X202E (Windows 8), HP Pavilion g4-1215dx (Windows 7)
    Chromebooks: Samsung Chromebook XE303
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  3. dancing-bass's Avatar
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    #3  

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    I agree, with the possible inclusion of a 3rd model depending on how well BB10 does.

    Flagship Keyboard
    Flagship Touchscreen

    Possibly a "Curve" style device down the road if all goes well and the market calls for it. Keep in mind we in North America have pretty much already written off RIM as dead and gone, while in other parts of the world they have huge chunks of the market.

    The curve-style device could have lower-spec hardware and perhaps run a "lite" version of BB10, where some of the advanced or business-oriented portions of the OS are not available, and market as a smart/quick-messaging device. Although I realize this leads to the endless models and specific software train of thought that lead RIM to where they are now.... too many models, each needing a specific OS variant, however it could work --- but ONLY if BB10 takes off.

    IMO BB10 absolutely MUST be a step ahead of iOS and Android to have any hope, and I mean both the hardware and the OS. If it is only on par, or worse yet, a step behind -- they will likely loose even more market share here in North America and elsewhere and die a slow death.
  4. yorkshireman2's Avatar
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    Good point about the slide out keyboard models.
  5. timmy t's Avatar
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    I think they are only going to have two phones with various internal specifications.
    That should simplify things.
    They have to have two form factors because the marketplace demands it.
  6. timmy t's Avatar
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    Default A race

    ...............
  7. maxx71's Avatar
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    #7  

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    Quote Originally Posted by yorkshireman2 View Post
    There is one iPhone. As such Apple get the economies of scale of producing a single model.

    RIM in the meantime has countless different models ranging from the incredibly cheap and plastic budget models up to the quality of the 9900.

    Is this multitude of models confusing the market place?

    Is it about time that RIM followed Apple and Samsung's lead and just had one or two models, e.g. one with a keyboard and one without.

    This would make promoting the phones easier and less confused, it would be a cleaner proposition in the eyes of the consumer, and surely there would be huge economies of scale to be gained in focusing all production, distribution, and marketing on one or two models than on a dozen.
    I feel it should have 3 series like the BOLD, Torch & Curve so that it covers all its specific target audience and reaches to the maximum number of people around the Globe

    * OP, Samsung has more than two models of phones for eg. Wave, Galaxy, Duos, note etc.
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  8. madman0141's Avatar
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    They should have multiple phones as long as they are different.
    I don't mean 1980's General Motors different ex: Chevrolet Cavalier Pontiac Sunfire Buick Skylark Cadillac Cimarron Oldsmobile Delta The same vehicle 5 ways.
    4 BB10 phones 1. Full keyboard 2. Full Touchscreen 3. Hybrid Slider 4. Beefed up business Bold
    [B]Real BlackBerry Phones Have Real Keyboards
    Q10 the finest BlackBerry
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  9. .pinkberry's Avatar
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    In my opinion, phones like the Curve are what make consumers think BlackBerry phones "suck".

    I think a full touch screen and a Bold-like phone are all they need... and perhaps a slider.
  10. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
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    #10  

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    I don't know what the sweet spot is, but I do think a reduction of models would help, with annual (maybe) refreshes that keep the basic forms. Get folks invested in accessories and all that I do understand the carriers can mess up that desire with requests for variants.

    I say an all-touch, an iconic physical keyboard, and a slider. Maybe two sliders (horizontal and vertial, with vertical taking precedence).

    I think a suretype Pearl-like device would be a nice entry-level idea, but that is mostly nostalgia on my part.

    So 3 or 4, maximum 5. I'd lean towards 3 models.
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  11. richardat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancing-bass View Post
    I agree, with the possible inclusion of a 3rd model depending on how well BB10 does.

    Flagship Keyboard
    Flagship Touchscreen

    Possibly a "Curve" style device down the road if all goes well and the market calls for it. Keep in mind we in North America have pretty much already written off RIM as dead and gone, while in other parts of the world they have huge chunks of the market.
    .
    If RIM had Apple's market in North America, I'd probably agree with the OP's focus that they should focus on a couple of high end models, especially given RIM's relatively small size.

    In RIM's case though I think the cheaper BB10 device is vital. Their most robust markets in which they still have cachet are outside North America, and if the market there is as RIM says it is, they need lower-end devices to sell there. I think the BB10 intro is crucial there, so that they NEVER get in the position they are here: way behind. In those markets, they can be seen as an innovative front-runner with BB10, not as a "catch-up" case. The margins haven't been as good, but at least in the event of BB10 failure or even slow acceptance in North America, the developing nations sales could provide a buffer. BB10 can help secure a presence in those markets for RIM, and maybe even, in the longer term, provide higher margins as people there become more willing/able to spend money frivolously like us ;-)
  12. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardat View Post
    If RIM had Apple's market in North America, I'd probably agree with the OP's focus that they should focus on a couple of high end models, especially given RIM's relatively small size.

    In RIM's case though I think the cheaper BB10 device is vital. Their most robust markets in which they still have cachet are outside North America, and if the market there is as RIM says it is, they need lower-end devices to sell there. I think the BB10 intro is crucial there, so that they NEVER get in the position they are here: way behind. In those markets, they can be seen as an innovative front-runner with BB10, not as a "catch-up" case. The margins haven't been as good, but at least in the event of BB10 failure or even slow acceptance in North America, the developing nations sales could provide a buffer. BB10 can help secure a presence in those markets for RIM, and maybe even, in the longer term, provide higher margins as people there become more willing/able to spend money frivolously like us ;-)
    Good point.
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  13. pr1nce's Avatar
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    I agree RIM should have two models, a full touchscreen model and a qwerty keyboard model. It would allow for RIM to really target their marketing. Less is more.
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  14. BBPandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .pinkberry View Post
    In my opinion, phones like the Curve are what make consumers think BlackBerry phones "suck".

    I think a full touch screen and a Bold-like phone are all they need... and perhaps a slider.
    And yet the curve line is the best selling line RIM has. It seems their best selling devices are their High end phones & their low end phones.

    I think they should have 3 Main Series.
    Full Touch - High & Low End
    Slider - Mid Range
    QWERTY - High & Low End

    And then a year or so down the road, introduce an Experiment Series, that tries different concepts to see how they are recieved. For example, maybe try a High end slider that looks like this


    If it's a huge success then maybe it would replace the slider series.

    The next year release a phone that uses RIM's Patented trapezoidal KeyBoard. If it turns out to be a failure, atleast they will know not to implement it on their QWERTY Series of phones.
  15. robsteve's Avatar
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    Doesn't Apple have four models now, starting with the 3GS as their budget phone.
  16. Bobert_123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    Doesn't Apple have four models now, starting with the 3GS as their budget phone.
    Apple comes up with one new phone each year, although samsung has MANY different models, just one or two flagships phones like the sgs3 and note 2 (upcoming) though...
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  17. richardat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    Doesn't Apple have four models now, starting with the 3GS as their budget phone.
    I think they discontinued the 3gs? I think iphone 4 is to be there budget phone now. Which could be a pretty killer budget product if they move aggressive into other markets with it.

    In any case, a total of 4 phones, one a time, over 4 years is still a pretty marked strategy difference compared to RIM>
  18. BBPandy's Avatar
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    If you compare the iPhone 3GS specs with a modern bottom of the line BlackBerry Curve, the Curve kicks .
  19. cgk
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    3gs is discontinued, the 4 is now the bottom product. The economies of scale question is a good one - which is why with such a small cash pot (that has to be split between marketing, supply chain, R&D etc etc) I just can't believe some of the stories here about how many models they will release in the first year. Variations I can see, multiple distinct devices? Nope.
  20. Balti43's Avatar
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    i think its vital for them to have many products, i mean the reason they didn't meet their analysts expectations is because their cheaper models were selling overseas more so than in america. theres a cheap network here in Tucson its called cricket idk if many are familiar with it. but they sell phones for what they're worth in reality and theres no contract and many of the people that get Cricket end up getting the Curve because its the cheaper, more reliable phone they carry. so cheaper phones are crucial. for example my girlfriend bought her iphone 4s there, a 16gig for 500$ my friend bought her curve there the one that runs OS7, for $150. its silly i know but eh i think having many phones gives people more options and people like options.
  21. cgk
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    i think its vital for them to have many products
    Ok - think about it this way, you have two billion dollars in cash - you need to launch a new platform and you need the products to have high margins* if the company is to survive - you are competing against two giants who can afford to spend three-four billion on buying advantage (economics of scale) in the supply chain for one device.

    Every device type you make that requires different components spilits that advantage and is likely to reduce the margins on your handsets (the higher the margins, the higher the likely profit) - also remember you can't spend that whole two billion on the supply chain but also need to have money for marketing, promotions, carrier incentives, developing your cloud services, your app world.

    So at the outset - do you want two devices (with variations of memory) - one slab and one keyboard - that you focus upon or do you split your available cash between multiple devices?

    * bear in mind that current growth of subscribers is done via selling bb7 and older handsets at a loss.
  22. timmy t's Avatar
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    They will still have the older phones with the older OS that they can sell as inexpensive phones.
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  23. cgk
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmy t View Post
    They will still have the older phones with the older OS that they can sell as inexpensive phones.

    Which is sensible and seems to be the plan.
  24. Spencerdl's Avatar
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    One thing for sure, they need to reduce the amount of different phones they have now. IMO...FOUR (4) should be sufficient for the new models (QNX).......just sayin
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  25. yorkshireman2's Avatar
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    The cheap BBs are what is selling in some parts of the world, I agree, but people are judging RIM based on these dubious quality and heavily plastic devices.

    RIM need to reach these markets, but better to sell in last years top of the range model than to lower standards.

    Launch BB10 with 2 or 3 stunning phones in Q1 2013 with a view to them being replaced in 2014 with brand new phones and the 2013 models then become the phone to sell into the places that can't afford the latest models.

    That way, everyone is getting a top quality RIM product.

    As OP have pointed out, this is what Apple have done with the iPhone 3, iPhone 4 and now the iPhone 5.

    Quality should be equally important for all Blackberry users if RIM are to be known as a quality/premium brand.
    .pinkberry likes this.
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