[notfanboy]

I think there is no need for 64-bit phone and it will never be until usage for the phone changes drastically. Even 2 GB RAM has nothing to do with real needs of the phone, this size is due to inefficient system implementation. It has nothing to do with QNX or LInux kernels and middle ware.

So what does this say about BB10 which requires 2GB to run acceptably? And even then there's a limit of 8 active apps.

[Chris Marsch]

64-bit is the new 32-bit and sooner or later every platform will have it and nobody is discussing this any longer (until the first 128-bit OS comes out)

[John Flud]

when apple brings new features, its dismissed as gimmicks. when apple doesn't, they are "Failing to innovate"

simply put, apple can't win with some people.

[MrRJ]

I don't think 2GB is enough for any desktop PC. My iMac has 12GB of RAM and my work Machine 16GB. Even my Surface Pro has 4GB. 2GB is ample for phones right now but that is changing, particularly with the high DPI screens that are so common now in mobile devices.

You don't think 2GB is enough. That doesn't change the fact that for the average user, sending a few emails, typing a letter in a word processor, ordering something on amazon and connecting a digital camera or phone to view a few photos doesn't need any more.

I'm sure your 12GB mac and 16GB PC are fabulous. Why does my mum need that? In fact, I'm an average user to a certain extent, why do I need that?!

[BerryWizard]

People are being silly with the "I don't need that : no one needs that ! " argument...

Posted via CB10

[cvdburgh]

All smartphones will eventually be 64bit because of addressing requirements.

Right now, not one smartphone can benefit from 64bit architecture. Samsung will likely be the first to require it i'd say in 2 years time.

64 bit architecture is nothing new and does absolutely nothing for performance.

Apple saying they went 64 bit for Enterprise is the biggest load of horse crap in the world.

Posted via CB10

I've been wondering: so in order to benefit from >3GB of RAM, you need a 64 bit OS, always? It doen't matter how that OS was built, so that restriction is in place for iOS, WinPhone, Android, BB10, all of them? Then the hardware is the issue, do I understand that correctly? It's been so long since I've looked into this stuff, hope you can explain.

At this moment, I'm perfectly happy with the way my Z10 handles what it is supposed to do. But I would love to have better mobile computing options in the future, full office document editing capabilities etc. And it stands to reason that we are going to need 4GB and over for that. I'm using an old laptop that I've upgraded to 4GB of RAM, Win7 x64. The SSD that came later had the biggest impact, but having 4GB in stead of 2 was a very noticeable improvement. And my desktop runs with 16GB (which may be a bit much for a phone in the near future)...

[qbnkelt]

You don't think 2GB is enough. That doesn't change the fact that for the average user, sending a few emails, typing a letter in a word processor, ordering something on amazon and connecting a digital camera or phone to view a few photos doesn't need any more.

I'm sure your 12GB mac and 16GB PC are fabulous. Why does my mum need that? In fact, I'm an average user to a certain extent, why do I need that?!

So the idea should be to develop for the least demanding end user?


Posted via CB10

[danprown]

Why did Apple go 64-bit? Why did the chicken cross the road?
Whatever the technical advantages of this right now for the iPhone 5s, debatable or not, Apple has to worry about the big picture -- tablets, TV, consoles, iPods, new products, responding to the competition, its whole ecosystem. It does not have the luxury to focus on a few phones per year, half of which are self-professedly technically and morally obsolete.

[ADGrant]

You don't think 2GB is enough. That doesn't change the fact that for the average user, sending a few emails, typing a letter in a word processor, ordering something on amazon and connecting a digital camera or phone to view a few photos doesn't need any more.

I'm sure your 12GB mac and 16GB PC are fabulous. Why does my mum need that? In fact, I'm an average user to a certain extent, why do I need that?!

People still type letters in word processors? I can't remember the last time I did that.

Most home users can get most of what they need from a tablet without dealing with the expense and complexity of a PC (which might be why they are selling so well now). A single family PC is all that is needed. That PC though needs RAM. Macs come with at least 4GB though 8GB is often recommended. Windows PCs probably have similar recommendations.

Oh and both Windows and Mac OS X are 64bit.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

The question isn't should BlackBerry go 64-bit, but Why didn't they?


Yes I know that right NOW, there isn't the need... but they were building a whole new "modern" operating system for the future. Why not start out at 64-bit? Why not be the first at something?

The fact that Apple release their updated OS at 64-bit just a few months later and that now Samsung is saying they have a 64-bit smartphone... even though we don't know when Android will be 64-bit... just shows where the future is going to be. The buzz word today is "mobile computing", well most ever computer I use today has 64-bit system and 4-12GB of ram. Granted the plan is that most of the heavy lifting will be accomplished on servers somewhere and feed to your smartphone. But when you have five or six accounts in your hub, when you have eight or nine headless apps running in the background, have two or three open app running in the background.... having 4GB of Ram is going to become very useful.

[BBThemes]

You don't think 2GB is enough. That doesn't change the fact that for the average user, sending a few emails, typing a letter in a word processor, ordering something on amazon and connecting a digital camera or phone to view a few photos doesn't need any more.

I'm sure your 12GB mac and 16GB PC are fabulous. Why does my mum need that? In fact, I'm an average user to a certain extent, why do I need that?!

Lmao someone didn't get the memo that 2gb is the minimum requirement of BB10

Posted via CB10

[whatsever]

Blackberry OS10 64 bit is for the new owner in november/december.

[jay_men]

Nokia had a similar concept with their E series.
Review: Nokia E71 : Menus (Phone Scoop)

You could switch between a personal and work profile.
BB10 does it better, but the concept is 5 years old at least.

The only annoying thing is, that Balance doesn't work without BES10, which means that everyone interested in it, but not willing to pay for the BES/Exchange infrastructure cannot use it.
I consider that a major fail.

Posted via CB10

Thanks for the reply. I too find it unfortunate and a missed opportunity that Balance is not available to non-BES10 devices. I think it would have definitely been a selling feature to those would like to keep personal / public info separate. Hopefully it comes to the general public some day.

[sergey_IL]

So what does this say about BB10 which requires 2GB to run acceptably? And even then there's a limit of 8 active apps.

This a good question for BlackBerry. I suppose they still far from perfect OS. I did run some poll to check the average usage of memory:
http://forums.crackberry.com/bb10-le...1047-a-838196/

From my observations with moderate usage RAM can go above 1GB, but I believe this is due to inefficient memory management by the OS (garbage cleaning ? Android or AIR overhead ?).
It's never been stated by BlackBerry that the OS must have 2 GB RAM.
The limitation for 8 active frames is purely artificial. I believe its done to prevent lack of RAM at any time.
This is common practice for high reliability real time environment (this my expertise for last 6 years).
This opposed to Windows or Android which let you various virtual memory arrangements or other memory managements solutions (standby apps ?).
BlackBerry took the hardest path in development, they are first to build user friendly GUI and power efficient on high availability real time OS (which is also micro kernel).
Have done some research, Apple seems to be very close with their iOS. iOS is based on open source Darwin kernel, which is built around NXU kernel, which is built around Mach 3 micro kernel (with possibility for real time). Though its never gained real success as RTOS.

PS: QNX solutions are very efficient and best in the class, but BlackBerries need some work to be done.

[iN8ter]

May I just point out that neither phone is 64 bit. Not to mention all that probably never exceeds 100mb of background memory. Just saying. Seems a little more like you wanted to compare your GS3 to the Z10 than talk about the merits of 64bit.

EDIT: The 100mb only applies to background. Of course the foreground tasks you listed can easily tear through that.

EDIT2: As for ram in desktops. We went 64bit because there are TONS of applications that easily tear through 4gb BY THEMSELVES. Not for the average user most of the time but try running sony vegas pro on 2gb. Not gonna happen. I don't see the need for 64bit on phones right now because mobile devices won't be doing that sort of professional work anytime soon if ever. Its just not the most efficient means of getting stuff done.

Facebook for Android runs as a Service on Android and takes 40MB RAM at the minimum so your numbers are Well Off.

The GS3 launched with 2GB RAM when it only needed 1 to future proof the device, allow for a bigger allocation to the GPU (about almost 100MB more than the One X allocates, which is a lot), and allow for better performance (OS can cache more processes, LMK is not needed nearly as much with 2GB vs. 1GB on an Android device). 3GB can further those benefits when you factor in the newer phones are shipping with 1080p screens and apps with a lot of 1080p assets can require a bit more.

BB doesn't do Tablets anymore, so the incentive to move there is not as high as it is for Apple, Google/Samsung, and Microsoft. Microsoft is practically already there with Windows 8, as they could move to x86 in the future if they wanted and Windows NT is obviously already 64-Bit ready as well as most of their 1st party code (Browser, etc.). If Intel's mobile processors end up performing really well, then that is something to certainly look out for (at least IRT their tablets, they should just drop Windows RT, IMO, but they do not want to cannibalize Windows Pro tablet sales as you could just Anytime Upgrade a normal Windows 8 installation, anyways...). No use making the iPhone 5S (and later) 32-Bits only if you're going to move there on newer iPads, same for Samsung Android devices. The two share a lot of code. It makes development easier moving forward. The 5C is just an iPhone 5 with a better FFC and plastic build, so that's not really a factor in that discussion.

64-Bit isn't just about running one super huge app. It's also about being able to run even more smaller apps concurrently. And like has been stated over and over in other threads, some types of applications can benefit quite a bit from a 64-Bit processor/optimizations.

[sergey_IL]

I can tell another story.
Intel released Atom Z2760, which is relatively new (Q3'12). It is used in many Windows 8 tablets (I have Ativ Smart PC 500). It is a 32 bit CPU only, it runs Windows 8 32 bit. I can run Matlab, Photoshop and any other software I want on it. It is not the best performer, but given its only tablet its working great.
I simply can't believe that any app on smartphone needs that level of complexity. All the memory wasting issues are due to poor software.
All this smartphone rally reminds me PC rally which occurred not in so distant past. But eventually Windows become more flexible and efficient and other software followed.

[iN8ter]

Thanks for the reply. I too find it unfortunate and a missed opportunity that Balance is not available to non-BES10 devices. I think it would have definitely been a selling feature to those would like to keep personal / public info separate. Hopefully it comes to the general public some day.

Samsung KNOX does this, though, and will be available to consumers on non-managed device (GS III/Note II and up).

Yes, missed opportunity for BB, but they have to sell them services to make money. Not doing so well in the hardware business, you know...

[sergey_IL]

64-Bit isn't just about running one super huge app. It's also about being able to run even more smaller apps concurrently. And like has been stated over and over in other threads, some types of applications can benefit quite a bit from a 64-Bit processor/optimizations.

How exactly 64bit helps to ran apps concurrently?
Task scheduler is what kernel is responsible for, it may benefit more from good CPU support for fast task switching.

[Wiki Cydia]

People still type letters in word processors? I can't remember the last time I did that.

It was probably the same time you last used a corded phone.

What's interesting about the issue in this thread is that my understanding of BB10 is that it's supposed to be a step towards a broader mobile computing platform. If that is indeed the case, how can BBRY not go 64-bit?

[Wiki Cydia]

How exactly 64bit helps to ran apps concurrently?
Task scheduler is what kernel is responsible for, it may benefit more from good CPU support for fast task switching.

There is a performance gain in general operations with 64-bit processing on optimized systems.

[iN8ter]

You don't think 2GB is enough. That doesn't change the fact that for the average user, sending a few emails, typing a letter in a word processor, ordering something on amazon and connecting a digital camera or phone to view a few photos doesn't need any more.

I'm sure your 12GB mac and 16GB PC are fabulous. Why does my mum need that? In fact, I'm an average user to a certain extent, why do I need that?!

2GB isn't enough for any Desktop PC these days. Sorry, to argue to the contrary is ridiculous.

Windows 7 or 8 use about 1.6 GB of that right out of the gate, after a fresh boot, with barely anything installed. And that's still with a ton of stuff swapped out to the swap file. The OS is rather sluggish and does not run well at all. You need at least 3GB RAM on a 32-Bit Windows installation for it to run smoothly, and I'd say add in another 512 MB if you don't have a discrete Graphics card as the Integrated Graphics will cut into that..

I wouldn't even bother running 64-Bit Windows on anything that isn't 4GB or more.

With only 2GB RAM you can barely run anything without running into a memory bottleneck (device constantly swapping causing stutters and lags, etc.).

This goes for any modern desktop operating system, even Mac OSX and Linux. You need more than 2GB, unless you're doing some super slim Linux distro which I'm sure your mom would not necessarily enjoy using.

No, you don't need 12 GB RAM, or 16. I have 6GB in this PC (maybe 8 Soon, since it's so cheap). Running a PC with 2GB RAM is just degrading the UX simply to prove that it's possible.

Note I'm not saying it's impossible - I've clearly done it and tried it. I'm saying it's simply not worth it given the cheap price of Desktop/Laptop RAM these days. The performance boosts going from 2GB RAM to 3+ are massive on any modern desktop OS (similar to what you'd get in gaming going from an integrated to better descrete graphics card, IMO). Windows/Mac/Linux on 2GB RAM is, quite frankly, stupid.

2GB Windows Machines died with Windows XP.

[iN8ter]

How exactly 64bit helps to ran apps concurrently?
Task scheduler is what kernel is responsible for, it may benefit more from good CPU support for fast task switching.

By accessing more RAM. The apps may be limited on how much they can access, but the OS can still load them above 4 GB. Moving to that is also about more than just the smartphone form factor, which is why Apple and Samsung doing it while BB skipping it for now makes sense.

Congrats on trying to lecture me while conpletely missing the poing. Sighs...

Sent from my Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4

[auditman]

I've been wondering: so in order to benefit from >3GB of RAM, you need a 64 bit OS, always? It doen't matter how that OS was built, so that restriction is in place for iOS, WinPhone, Android, BB10, all of them? Then the hardware is the issue, do I understand that correctly? It's been so long since I've looked into this stuff, hope you can explain.

At this moment, I'm perfectly happy with the way my Z10 handles what it is supposed to do. But I would love to have better mobile computing options in the future, full office document editing capabilities etc. And it stands to reason that we are going to need 4GB and over for that. I'm using an old laptop that I've upgraded to 4GB of RAM, Win7 x64. The SSD that came later had the biggest impact, but having 4GB in stead of 2 was a very noticeable improvement. And my desktop runs with 16GB (which may be a bit much for a phone in the near future)...

Os 64bit needs a minimum 4gb ram to run as efficiently as a 32bit os with 2gb ram.

Thats why i dont get it with those cheap laptops with 64bit os but only comes with base 2gb ram.

STL 100-3 os 10.2.0.1725

[sergey_IL]

from Wikipedia:
32 bit:
Cortex-A9 - 2.5 DMIPS per core
Cortex-A15 - 3.5-4.1 DMIPS per core
64 bit:
Cortex-A53 - 40 bit address bus - 2.3 DMIPS per core
Cortex-A57 - 44 bit address bus - 4.1-4.76 DMIPS per core

Addtionally, 64 bit processors have more advanced SIMD.

It's curious to see, but Cortex A15 allows more cash (up to 4MB L2) which way more important.
My pick: dual core Cortex-A15 packed with some nice GPU and OS which fully utilizes that will beat Apple's A7 in most cases.

[MarsupilamiX]

Samsung KNOX does this, though, and will be available to consumers on non-managed device (GS III/Note II and up).

Yes, missed opportunity for BB, but they have to sell them services to make money. Not doing so well in the hardware business, you know...

The principe of Knox is very similar, but they came after BB10, that's why I didn't talk about it.
Nokia was first with a lot of things in the marketplace, but just like RIM, was unable to embrace the move to touchscreens.

I disagree with your last point though.
BlackBerry needs to offer a better package with their phones sold and especially Balance would be an awesome feature for "the average joe" not using a BES or for employees in a company that isn't big enough to warrant the costs of a BYOD MDM software.
The same goes for self-employed smartphone users.

More features would definitely help to sell BB10 and as we know by now, the Balance festure isn't even allowed in companies that need a higher degree of security.
Which means that it looses its worth.

The pool of people having a BB10 device and working in an environment that uses BES10 but aren't in the situation where the "security clearance" mandates not to use Balance, is pretty small.

(Armchair CEO idea: they could sell balance as an app, to the user not being on BES)

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