[pantlesspenguin]

So these older less tech savvy people are Tweeting?

If you haven't already, you should subscribe to @oldmansearch on Twitter .

[nyc_rock]

I also find out funny that some folks seem to think that people leaving stores with iPhones and Android devices were helplessly swayed to them by salespeople.

If you think salespeople are a reason for RIM'S troubles, I have info that the moon landing was faked to sell you.

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I hope you dont think that was the point of my original post because it was not. RIMs troubles have been very well documented to say the least. But I can tell you for sure, that if you go into one of these stores with your nokia flip phone, finally ready to buy your first smartphone and relying on the guy at the store to put in the right direction, there is no way in you are walking out with a BB.

[Tre Lawrence]

I think the point was if the people tasked with selling your product refuse to do so then you might have a problem.

Again, I blame RIM for that. A couple of suggestions cooked up by people smarter than I in these very forums can help fix that. Corporate stores like Apple? Regional evangelists who help create mindshare? A vibrant ecosystem? An exceptional loyalty program?

RIM is responsible for sales.

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[grover5]

So these older less tech savvy people are Tweeting?

Why is it so difficult to blame everyone else that happened to he BB brand other than R.I.M?

It's a trickle down phenomena. If the reps in the stores are not pitching BB products, there's a reason for that for sure.

I just highly doubt that it's an elaborate conspiracy hatched by the American-Devil-Capitalist-Society-bent-on-World-mobile-phone-domination-and-eliminating-North-American-competitors.

Whew! I don't know about the rest of you, but all of a sudden I'm thirsty!

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a sales person to recognize the different strengths and weaknesses of the products they offer and match them appropriately to the needs of their customers. I also am confused by the straw man you keep rolling out that multiple posters are blaming this bad behavior of sales people for RIMs demise.

[grover5]

Again, I blame RIM for that. A couple of suggestions cooked up by people smarter than I in these very forums can help fix that. Corporate stores like Apple? Regional evangelists who help create mindshare? A vibrant ecosystem? An exceptional loyalty program?

RIM is responsible for sales.

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You are free to blame who you want. It is neither here nor there for me. Like I said before, if it happens to me I will hold the individual standing before me responsible.

[Tre Lawrence]

You are free to blame who you want. It is neither here nor there for me. Like I said before, if it happens to me I will hold the individual standing before me responsible.

I agree.

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[Denise in Los Angeles]

I was told Android devices were going to be "stopped" because of patent issues by a Tmo rep.

People just don't go into stores uninformed any more. Family and friends play a bigger role, IMHO.

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If I walked into a store and asked for a Blackberry, and was told by the salesperson
that Verizon wasn't going to sell them anymore, what role did family/friends play in my
experience? The sales person made the uninformed or untrue statement, not someone
that I know.

[Alex_Hong]

a lot of consumers are not tech savvy and do not research their phone before they buy it. They buy the phone first and only after buying it realise what it can do, or cannot do. In the case of android and ios, they do everything. So it's the "safe" choice for people who don't know what they want. perhaps thats the reason the sales people are trying to nudge people towards them cause it doesnt entail explaining much. same for most tech stuffs.

I'm from Singapore and I worked as a sales person for Apple products @ an apple authorised retailer for a couple of years before the mac got HUGELY popular and before the iphone came out. Part of my job is to explain and demo the apple products to consumers even if they have no wish to buy a new computer. If they ask how it works, i show them. and i do enjoy demoing stuffs for consumers, as it is a product that i personally use and like. Thus i am familiar with how to get around the system, provide basic tech support for users, as well as providing tips for new users. This is where i think Apple has does a good job with the marketing and sales department. They invite all authorised retailers of their products to sent their staffs to their head office for sales and demo training. Provide professionally made marketing and demo materials.

I think what Blackberry needs it something along those lines. It is a start that they are opening blackberry stores. This can ensure that their sales staff can provide adequate and accurate information to consumers who are interested. Instead of relying on the sales rep from the carriers. Also it is important that they hire sales people who have passion for the product and preferably uses it themselves. It is easier to sell the product when you can personally relate to it. Provide basic sales training too, for sales rep from carriers etc.

sorry for the long rant. I had a bit too much to drink earlier today.

[[email protected]]

I also am confused by the straw man you keep rolling out that multiple posters are blaming this bad behavior of sales people for RIMs demise.

No straw man needed. This isn't the first thread were someone has complained about misinformed or uneducated employees at mobile stores.

The point I was trying to make is that there "appears" to be a reversal of sorts. In this very thread, I believe, a poster even say that only those "outside" of the U.S. "understood" how great RIM was.

Even if that were to be true, there's a reason for it and the reason is NOT some rep pushing phone and cellular pakages in a retail store.

And again, even if this were true, why hasn't RIM done something about it? HTC sends its reps out to Sprint stores once a Q(from what I read) to make sure that the reps are trained and up-to-speed on products and updates.

I've seen Samsung reps in Best Buy.

Apple had reps in at Sprint stores when they finally added the iPhone to their line-up. Why? Because AAPL doesn't trust anyone to tell their products as effectively as they do.

How many time have you been in a supermarket and seen a new product(food or otherwise) being solicited and a company representative there pushing it?

RIM needs to sell their own products and promote their own brand and not leave it up to street level stores and ee's to champion their products.

[Coachbulldog]

Blackberry is getting the reverse edge of a two-edged sword.

In the heyday of the super pager era, how many people were handed a blackberry and told "Learn to deal with it. We don't allow anything else."

Times have certainly changed. I remember when the Verizon sales person told me the BlackBerry Storm was a better phone than AT&T's iPhone and he spent a lot of time telling me all the advantages of the Storm. By the time I was ready to upgrade to the Storm 2 the Verizon rep did all they could to steer me away from BlackBerry to a Droid.

For what it is worth, I never had a bit of trouble with my Storm or Storm 2 and thought both were solid phones.

[shemaree09]

So these older less tech savvy people are Tweeting?

Why is it so difficult to blame everyone else that happened to he BB brand other than R.I.M?

It's a trickle down phenomena. If the reps in the stores are not pitching BB products, there's a reason for that for sure.

I just highly doubt that it's an elaborate conspiracy hatched by the American-Devil-Capitalist-Society-bent-on-World-mobile-phone-domination-and-eliminating-North-American-competitors.

Whew! I don't know about the rest of you, but all of a sudden I'm thirsty!

You just picked apart my post.

I said older OR less tech savvy (any age)

I also said: "With RIM's lack of advertising, some of those folks think that they can only go iPhone or Android."

[kraski]

So these older less tech savvy people are Tweeting?

Older doesn't necessarily mean less tech savvy. And I'll use myself as an example for that statement. Four Twitter accounts, Facebook, Google+, forums (including here), BBM admin, heavy email user. And heading toward 70 in a little over a year.

[[email protected]]

Older doesn't necessarily mean less tech savvy. And I'll use myself as an example for that statement. Four Twitter accounts, Facebook, Google+, forums (including here), BBM admin, heavy email user. And heading toward 70 in a little over a year.

Of course. That was my point. It seemed that the poster was implying that older/less tech savy folks need more help for the store level ee.(I could be wrong, and I extend an olive branch to the poster if that was NOT what they meant to imply), but that's how I read the post.)

My comment was to indicate the irony of someone 'older' or less tech savy 'Tweeting' on a daily basis.

[Tre Lawrence]

If I walked into a store and asked for a Blackberry, and was told by the salesperson
that Verizon wasn't going to sell them anymore, what role did family/friends play in my
experience? The sales person made the uninformed or untrue statement, not someone
that I know.

I think you missed my point. Did the person sway you?

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[shemaree09]

Of course. That was my point. It seemed that the poster was implying that older/less tech savy folks need more help for the store level ee.(I could be wrong, and I extend an olive branch to the poster if that was NOT what they meant to imply), but that's how I read the post.)

My comment was to indicate the irony of someone 'older' or less tech savy 'Tweeting' on a daily basis.

once again,

i said: older OR less tech savvy (any age)

[[email protected]]

once again,

i said: older OR less tech savvy (any age)

I apologized for misunderstanding your post.

Olive branch = Peace.

[13echo4]

There is such an incredible Blackberry backlash in the US, being Canadian I really don't see it first hand and am not sure why this has occurred. I would like to post to an Android or Apple forum to see why there is such a fierce hate-on for bb. I'm no advocate for any product but don't understand such hostility by the sales people. I think they are just post-teenagers that do not want to promote something that doesn't have several hundred thousand games on it.

I think what has happened is that despite what people think there isn't really that many blackberry models to the os version. Android on the other hand has lots. Several brands and each brand a couple models. So learning the android os you have a large list of different devices you can try to push "sale".
With Blackberry os7 you have what 4? Not counting the cdma/gsm counter parts. So its not all that appealing to learn the rim os. Several people have bought blackberrys after talking with me about them. A few have said they had wanted one before they got what they had but the sale rep didn't show em stuff that I did. So what they saw at the store was a phone that received email and bbm.
Ips is a no brainer. Hit the app and there you go. Not much thought in volved plus after the sale they don't have to support it.
Blackberry has that business image and some just don't want to carry that label. Hence Rim is moving into the customer sector. Funny is now android and apple wants in the business sector. I bet you it won't be as hard for Rim to succed in the customer as it will be android and ios to in the business.
I know, I know some people use their androids and ips for business but we know their just making the bare minium.

[GingerSnapsBack]

I know, I know some people use their androids and ips for business but we know their just making the bare minium.

You mean making minimum wage? Sorry. I'm a specialist and I get paid accordingly. I'm more than above minimum wage.

[Lead_Express]

Its true that phone companies exsist primarily to sell service plans. Its also true that most sales reps get a comission on each phone sale. I don't think that hurts or helps RIM when it comes to selling BlackBerry's. Case in point, I've had sales reps with all sorts of different opinions, telling me all sorts of things. But I take each word with a grain of salt and I get my hands on the device I'm interested in. The fact is I'm the customer and I demand proper service.

[[email protected]]

I know, I know some people use their androids and ips for business but we know their just making the bare minium.

What an intelligent thing to say. You and the the "we know" crew must be worth millions.

Thanks for taking the time out of your busy day to post on these sites and letting the savages know how they're going things the wrong way.

[kbz1960]

Whack man, it's just whack.

[Denise in Los Angeles]

I think you missed my point. Did the person sway you?

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No, not really... mainly because I read Crackberry, not because I fell for that lie.
I'm probably the bad example, since I've only owned Blackberrys for the past ~8
years.

Now for the better example: I hinted to my husband that Blackberry had made a tablet
before my birthday. When he went to a store (Worst Buy), the sales person told him
that the PlayBook "needs a data plan". So since my husband had no clue *about TABLETS*
he bought me something else, which I sent him back to return. I ordered my PlayBook
myself from Amazon, so I was not an uninformed shopper to be swayed to a different
product.

[13echo4]

You mean making minimum wage? Sorry. I'm a specialist and I get paid accordingly. I'm more than above minimum wage.

No I didn't mean minimum wage. I meant the bare minimum of doing business. I'm a farmer no body makes less money than I do.
ADozenEggs out of my whole post that's all you caught. And you say I'm intelligent. Yes I know some people that use their ips and androids for business. Am I not allowed to know something? My wife uses her iphone for her vet. Business. I know some lawyers,.sales people, and a couple of doctors that use their ips and androids for their business along with a few truck drivers and farmers. So yea I think I can safely say "I know some use their ips and androids for business"
I'm sorry to have hurt your feelings. That's just the way I feel about the whole subject. Blackberrys is no more of a bad device as any of the others. Android just put ot self into more hands by putting it into more devices. Just that simple.
I don't have this opinion thinking sales reps gets paid for selling devices. The company does however by selling service. Plus their stock worth comes from service plans. Sell the phone sell the plan. Pretty simple math. Sale rep prolly gets a lot more hourly wage than comission. So hey they really don't care as long as they sell. So learn 1 os that covers all the hardware then its just a matter of putting in the hand the type of device they want.

[Blackberry_boffin]

When I bought my Playbook (over the phone) I told the guy who was trying to sneak in the ipad sideways that any mention of it again and the call ends.
Suffice to say if it was instore he would have rolled out a red carpet after the dressing down i gave him when he said in that case I needed insurance as it was going to break down one way or the other.

[Harborcoat]

I tried to buy an Android before (ended up with Blackberry because their data plans didn't work with the droid- good thing too, because I love my Curve) and the salesman immediately said "No. I'm not selling you that. An iPhone..." Yes, he really refused to sell me the android, this was before I even knew they didn't have a data plan for it. I told him I didn't want an iPhone, and he wouldn't shut up about it even then, so I walked out. Funny thing is, my carrier has separate plans for iPhones that cost more than general smartphone plans...

When I went to a different store and I said I wanted a Blackberry, I was asked "why?". Later I noticed him text on a Bold. I'm definitely thinking this is a management thing to make more money.