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  1. John Arnold's Avatar
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    Default RIM: "Clean up this mess NOW!"

    A 20% decline in the stock price sends a very bad signal to stakeholders. They will rightfully ask, "why invest / develop now? Let's see if they are around in 12 mos before I do that." Problem is that everyone will be waiting for everyone else. RIM's rising stock price was a positive signal - this morning, Thor referred to the rising stock price as investors rising confidence in BB10. So Thor, how is everyone suppose to interpret a 20% decline in a single day? Thor, you failed to stop the bleeding - you were not specific and you have not earned the privilege of being vague (i.e. 'licensing our mobile computing platform to others'). What must you do?

    1) Hold an analyst day and explain the numbers to people. Help them make knowledgable projections. Show them how MDM revenues and higher ASPs will offset declining service revenues.
    2) Announce new services - if you are doing something with the autos, now is he time to tell people. (The QNX stuff doesn't count - you hardly get paid for that)
    3) Recruit more investors. Why have you been unable to win back David Einhorn?
    4) Fire your Head of IR. That incompetent moron hasn't got back to me eventhough I made a request 24 months ago.

    Thor, you risk underperforming if you do not actively manage sentiment.

    Kevin, UMI's piece on service revenues sucked. All he said was "this is a problem I have been worrying about". Thanks for that Chris. Let's get some number crunchers on this forum who can explain what is really going on here. Goldman and Bernstein think the market is overreacting - let's get someone who can show (using numbers) why this is the case.

    Happy holidays everyone!
  2. maam's Avatar
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    I think thats what the bb10 are for eh lol
    Be Proud
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    higherdestiny likes this.
  3. CairnsRock's Avatar
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    So here you are whining about people manipulating the stock while trying to get CB to manipulate the stock.
    CommanderElvis and mk2234 like this.
  4. higherdestiny's Avatar
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    What must Thor do?

    1) Release an awesome product
    2) Profit
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    BB10BelieveIt (12-22-2012) 
  5. Tinomane's Avatar
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    Just use this opportunity to pick up more shares at a discount. I get it sucks seeing unrealized gains dropping like crazy, but you haven't lost anything until you sell. Everything will become clear jan.30/
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    Leocardia Felicity (12-22-2012) 
  6. silversun10's Avatar
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    obviously they are in negotiations with the carriers on the fees and they can't show their hand just because an analyst asks for it,
    shareholders should support RIM in this effort and not make moronic demands that will sink RIM.....
  7. jakie55's Avatar
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    OOH I didn't get what I want,so I am jumping up and down, and demanding....like a two year old. I think the Management team is working on the "issues" .
    Q 10 for the win!
    (WHITE Z 10, on 10.2.1.537 and Nexus 4, both sold)
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  8. John Arnold's Avatar
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    Default

    Funny how many of you are comfortable watching the shares tank and then saying that I am 'whining'. Our views differ for 2 reasons:

    1) I think the stock price influences the behaviour of constituents that RIM needs - enterprise customers, developers, customers. Before my bank makes a large investment in RIM infrastructure, they will want to know the company is 'stable'. Most large companies conduct this same assessment. (hint: a low stock price does not help; neither does negative sentiment)

    2) I think RIM can comfortably share 'service level' scenarios to build a shared understanding among the analyst crowd. If they cannot, analysts and investors cannot be blamed for thinking that the 'truth' is so bad that RIM does not want to share it. You must also remember that investors rightfully don't trust RIM. Two years ago, a big investor said RIM's co-CEO's were the bozos who could not shoot straight - he sold all his shares. His harsh views were only validated as the stock is down 90% since that time.

    Remember friends, I am an owner of this company so yes, RIM's management works for me and should listen.

    Some of you talk about my desire to 'manipulate' the stock price. Only one response - pick up a big and learn about the basics of investing. You have no idea what you are talking about.
  9. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    Yeah +1 on the "jumping up and down like a two year old" comment.
    ------------------------------------
    I like how BlackBerry 10 is evolving, but when are they going to fix BlackBerry Link for Mac?

    The fact that it doesn't reliably do what it's supposed to do ... most of the time ... is utterly appalling. The only consistency is the "Music not copied to Z10 message"
  10. AfroZepher's Avatar
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    #10  

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    I don't see how this effects stakeholders . . .they knew what they were getting into. . .the be patient . . .
  11. silversun10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
    Funny how many of you are comfortable watching the shares tank and then saying that I am 'whining'. Our views differ for 2 reasons:

    1) I think the stock price influences the behaviour of constituents that RIM needs - enterprise customers, developers, customers. Before my bank makes a large investment in RIM infrastructure, they will want to know the company is 'stable'. Most large companies conduct this same assessment. (hint: a low stock price does not help; neither does negative sentiment)

    2) I think RIM can comfortably share 'service level' scenarios to build a shared understanding among the analyst crowd. If they cannot, analysts and investors cannot be blamed for thinking that the 'truth' is so bad that RIM does not want to share it. You must also remember that investors rightfully don't trust RIM. Two years ago, a big investor said RIM's co-CEO's were the bozos who could not shoot straight - he sold all his shares. His harsh views were only validated as the stock is down 90% since that time.

    Remember friends, I am an owner of this company so yes, RIM's management works for me and should listen.

    Some of you talk about my desire to 'manipulate' the stock price. Only one response - pick up a big and learn about the basics of investing. You have no idea what you are talking about.
    i for one, i am glad they don't listen to you, you know you are not the only shareholder?
  12. SparkyBC's Avatar
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    #12  

    Default RIM: "Clean up this mess NOW!"

    The stock market till rim released the devices will be up and down and will be 3 months after as well.

    Just investors screwing with making profits.
  13. thecsman's Avatar
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    Come on folks, I am sure the gentleman is not the only one freaking out with the crazy ups and downs in the RIM stock price.

    Remember the Canada Pensions Plan has a huge participation in RIM (I don't know if they have dumped the stocks by now).

    All we can do at this point is to have patience until BB10 is released. I think RIM is into something good here. Let's just wait and see.
  14. simu31's Avatar
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    #14  

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
    Remember friends, I am an owner of this company so yes, RIM's management works for me and should listen.

    Some of you talk about my desire to 'manipulate' the stock price. Only one response - pick up a big and learn about the basics of investing. You have no idea what you are talking about.
    I'd suggest you have no idea what you're talking about if you think, for even a nano-second, that RIM's management give a flying fudgesicle what some annonomous individual on a fan blog demands like a petulant child.

    I'd just like to correct a sentance you wrote. You're a MINISCULE SHAREHOLDER in this company. Do you think that RIM's management should listen to every single last person that owns even a single share, or do the shareholders with larger investments in RIM get more say? Surely this kind of ... request... is what the annual shareholder's meetings are for.

    Unless you can prove some kind of experience in managing a multi-billion dollar company, then I'd suggest that RIM's management not listen to you. You bought your shares, you will gain or lose depending upon other shareholders.

    Either way, just in case your shouting demand works, I'll try one of my own: "RIM sell me a Z10 NOW!" ... Strange, RIM's management don't seem to be paying any attention to my childish shouting either

    Si.
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  15. jimpilot's Avatar
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    There is always 10% who cause 90% of the issues. He may have wanted a quick gain after the results and didn't get it. Most of us are with RIM for the long term.
    el_excelsior likes this.
  16. John Arnold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simu31 View Post
    I'd suggest you have no idea what you're talking about if you think, for even a nano-second, that RIM's management give a flying fudgesicle what some annonomous individual on a fan blog demands like a petulant child.

    I'd just like to correct a sentance you wrote. You're a MINISCULE SHAREHOLDER in this company. Do you think that RIM's management should listen to every single last person that owns even a single share, or do the shareholders with larger investments in RIM get more say? Surely this kind of ... request... is what the annual shareholder's meetings are for.

    Unless you can prove some kind of experience in managing a multi-billion dollar company, then I'd suggest that RIM's management not listen to you. You bought your shares, you will gain or lose depending upon other shareholders.

    Either way, just in case your shouting demand works, I'll try one of my own: "RIM sell me a Z10 NOW!" ... Strange, RIM's management don't seem to be paying any attention to my childish shouting either

    Si.
    So much garbage in your post - let me recap:
    1) RIM knows it has a problem - this is one of the reasons they were on BNN, Bloomberg and CNBC post the call. They "get" my concerns and have provided a half-baked response. You, on the other hand, think that everything is great...ignorance is bliss
    2) I am not a small shareholder. I'll bet you don't make in a single year what I own in RIM. I'll bet you $10,000 that this is true - no joke.
    3) Yes, I am a senior leader in a company much larger than RIM so they should listen to me.
    4) I am not shouting, I am writing - the note is not childish, it is clear and direct.

    No joke about the bet, by the way. The problem with these forums is some of you hobos get involved in dialogues you should just ignore. I'd suggest you stare at the clock counting down the seconds to BB10 - you will have more to contribute watching that.
  17. playbookster's Avatar
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    39 days and the speculation ends.
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  18. BThunderW's Avatar
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    Wow. People really need to calm the f*** down. Enjoy the holidays, and when we come back in January, the hype machine will be in overdrive, once again the stock will grow. Market has a very short memory. Don't worry, the stock will peak again just before January 30 before another selloff right after. That's just the way markets work, if you're investing in RIM, you got nothing to worry about it, stock will trend upwards, if you're a trader and missed the signs, you got yourself to blame.
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    Dapper37 and Bumble2000 like this.
  19. sexybabe88's Avatar
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    Default RIM: "Clean up this mess NOW!"

    Like it or not, RIM ultimately answers to its shareholders. If this guy really sank in such a large sum into rim, it's definitely understandable although no one can deny that rim's stock price is going to remain volatile until the future of the company is more certain. the more information rim hides, the more volatile the stock will be and the more pissed off people will get. they have to draw a fine balance between keeping the surprise factor and keeping the stock stable and if they are unable to do so, they can only blame themselves if the stock tanks and in an extreme scenario, someone attempts a hostile takeover.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
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    OP, until BB10 is introduced RIM's share price is inevitably going to rise and fall on sentiment. There were two things in the call yesterday that have made people nervous: fewer subs and the prospect of changes to service revenue.

    As a shareholder I'm not nuts about a 22% drop in RIM's share price (especially since I don't have any free cash to buy in Monday), but I suspect it's overblown. To me, fewer subs was always a possibility, and we knew the business model was going to change re service charges. RIM is actually doing a very, very good job.

    BTW, in one sense, I'm glad there was some so-so news in this call--to me I see the executive clearly stating the current position and challenges of the company. Better than than trying to blow smoke up my a--.
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  21. notfanboy's Avatar
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    #21  

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
    So much garbage in your post - let me recap:

    2) I am not a small shareholder. I'll bet you don't make in a single year what I own in RIM. I'll bet you $10,000 that this is true - no joke.
    Oooh, a wager. I think wagers are great entertainment for onlookers. I hope this bet gets covered.

    I made a serious 10,000 bet on these forums not too long ago, proposing that the wagers be put on escrow. The guy didn't bite. I offered better odds, his $100 my $10000 but he unfortunately was unwilling to back up his bravado.
  22. BThunderW's Avatar
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    Is this one of those "my ***** is larger" arguments? Because I have a webcam....and a ruler
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  23. john_v's Avatar
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    #23  

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    Vic?....Vic Alboini? Is that you? Did they let you on the computer again?


    Quote Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
    A 20% decline in the stock price sends a very bad signal to stakeholders. They will rightfully ask, "why invest / develop now? Let's see if they are around in 12 mos before I do that." Problem is that everyone will be waiting for everyone else. RIM's rising stock price was a positive signal - this morning, Thor referred to the rising stock price as investors rising confidence in BB10. So Thor, how is everyone suppose to interpret a 20% decline in a single day? Thor, you failed to stop the bleeding - you were not specific and you have not earned the privilege of being vague (i.e. 'licensing our mobile computing platform to others'). What must you do?

    1) Hold an analyst day and explain the numbers to people. Help them make knowledgable projections. Show them how MDM revenues and higher ASPs will offset declining service revenues.
    2) Announce new services - if you are doing something with the autos, now is he time to tell people. (The QNX stuff doesn't count - you hardly get paid for that)
    3) Recruit more investors. Why have you been unable to win back David Einhorn?
    4) Fire your Head of IR. That incompetent moron hasn't got back to me eventhough I made a request 24 months ago.

    Thor, you risk underperforming if you do not actively manage sentiment.

    Kevin, UMI's piece on service revenues sucked. All he said was "this is a problem I have been worrying about". Thanks for that Chris. Let's get some number crunchers on this forum who can explain what is really going on here. Goldman and Bernstein think the market is overreacting - let's get someone who can show (using numbers) why this is the case.

    Happy holidays everyone!
    __________________________
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  24. hkkelvinlee's Avatar
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    #24  

    Default RIM: "Clean up this mess NOW!"

    I am in a way a fanboy but at the same time recognise you need to look at things more objectively if you want to invest.

    Although I am confident RIM will be alright in mid or long terms but I cannot help feeling the CEO could have done better in delivering the message. What the OP said has certain merits if you look at it from pure investor's viewpoint.

    RIM cannot risk over 20% drop, warranted or not, like that at critical time like this.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk
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  25. Jon Ryder's Avatar
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    I still think the best thing RIM can do is go private, avoid all this market drama that has absolutely nothing to do with making good products and services, or making a profit for that matter, and then they can concentrate on just providing us with great phoned backed by great service and ignore our faulty, badly in need of an overhaul, stockmarket system...just my 2 cents.

    JR
    gokulesh and Snap51 like this.
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