[tinochiko]

Replaceable battery is an absolute MUST for me.

Usual justifications people have for non replaceable battery:
1) Replaceable battery design means larger battery:
Just compare the battery sizes of Samsung devices and the equal sized HTC phones with embedded battery, you will find that the Samsung phones have larger battery capacity.

There is no correlation between whether the battery is embedded and the size of the battery. It can go both ways.

If that is just based on comparing two phones (of which models weren't stated) from different manufactures, then your conclusion is less believable, for me it's simply logical, if you have to manufacture something to leave the user access to it, the user is gong to need enough space to be able to pull the battery out and replace it comfortably, that same space could have been taken up by a bigger battery.. something that isn't meant to be removed (say they are equal size) allows for more options for its placement as it's not a requirement that it be easily reachable which could potentially allow for a bigger battery.

But the main thing is that there definitely is more room for manufacturer to use with non removable

2) Removable battery phones have random reboots:
If your phone has random reboots, it is a manufacturing defect that needs to be warrantied. I certainly do not have any random reboot issues on my Q10 and plenty of people don't.

I don't know who said it so not sure whether they didn't explain properly or it was just misunderstanding.. let me give an example, with my Z10 I started noticing that whenever I nudged it or it just moved quickly (fell short distance to soft ground) it would just restart, a stuck a piece of paper to tighten the battery and they didn't happen anymore, to add to my first point, that piece of paper could be extra Man and to elaborate on this point, much like a slider would be more susceptible to failure, frequently removing the back cover as well as the battery leaves them more susceptible to damage

3) Non removable battery makes phones water proof:
NO, many waterproof phones have removable batteries such as CAT phones and Samsung waterproof phones.

Haven't heard this point argued ever but fair enough, although again having a non removable battery might make the waterproofing process easier which makes it cheaper which means if BlackBerry starts doing it their phones would't surge in price, Samsung can afford to subsidise their customers, can BlackBerry?
------------------------------

Here are the reasons that removable battery is essential:

1) Batteries die:
Lithium ion batteries can deteriorate just by aging and without usage. Add the nightly charges that phones go through, and you will notice the deteriorated battery life after the first year (when the warranty runs out). In which case, you have to visit a bunch of "phone repair stores" and pay people to perform the task.
And since the entire phone is being disassembled, there is a higher chance of contaminating the phone or re assembling the phone wrongly compared to changing a battery on a phone with a replaceable battery.

Of course, there are always people who mention "well, my Iphone is 5 years old and it's battery is good as new". A simple Google search will show you that the deterioration of lithium ion batteries is well documented and scientifically proven. So just because yours was fine does not mean all lithium ion batteries last.

Wholeheartedly agree, see my response to @Belfastdespatcher though, put simply, doesn't using replaceable batteries accelerate their deterioration? I think if you count up the batteries you would have to buy over 5 years vs. Not having to deplete the battery all the time and the extra life you would get having purchased one battery pack (which itself doesn't have to be depleted and recharged all the time hence more cycles)

2) Finding OEM batteries:
If your battery dies, and your phone has a sealed-in battery, the phone manufacturer does not sell the OEM battery in their authorized dealers. So you have to rely on some shady Ebay dealers for the battery that might not even be authentic. Or worse, you cannot even find it.

So.. where do you buy your spare batteries from? All from BlackBerry? A lot of other people don't/can't and still end up on eBay at risk of purchasing untested batteries, with non removable most individuals would resort to finding a vendor to replace it for them of which most have their own warranty thing in place so of something happens you can take the issue to them.. just saying

3) Longevity:
Whether it is for the financial reasons or for personal reasons, some people like to keep their phones for a long time (3+ years) and the battery is one part of the phone that is GUARANTEED to go bad. For me, I keep all my past phones and I like to use them time to time even when I have a newer phone.

See response to point 1) (the initial one) + you don't have to recharge your battery from flat with a pack so won't it have more cycles that extend its life, I can't estimate how long for but it must count for something..

And yes you can buy a new one when the old ones go bad but then is it cost-effective to do so?

4) Charging time:
External batteries have limited amperes, and they charge A LOT slower than a OEM wall charger. And the charging rate gets lower as the external battery empties. Using a power block is not only slower compared to switching out the battery, but it is also noticeably slower compared to using a proper wall chargers. And wall chargers aren't known for their speed to begin with.

Don't know which ones you've used but the battery pack I used for a while was fast (on its faster output, it had two one 1a, another 2a) and I found the 2a actually charged my iPad at the normal rate that the beefed up Apple charger would.. so not slow..

Of course, I did not even mention the obvious such as being able to change the battery instantly, or performing a battery pull.

The former which means no texts/calls/emails /communication or anything else which for it to be worthwhile and we all know how long BlackBerry boot ups are, why not, not have to boot up and just plug in on the go?

There is NO advantage to having a sealed in battery for the consumers. And only the manufacturers benefit since they make people replace the entire phone just for a faulty battery. .

I believe that it should be legally mandated to have replaceable batteries on tech devices, before digital waste becomes a bigger problem.

Posted via CB10 using Blackberry Q10

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[koebi90]

OP didn't get his point across: it's not about the battery capacity, a built-in battery is crap even of it it's 8000mah!

If you're a damn heavy user you need your device every second, you can't afford to plug it into a wall or a bulky charger!

It's not about the size, but a lot more about the mobility!
The larger the battery, the longer it takes to charge.

Another point: a lot people mention, the battery just needs to run a working day, so you can charge it over night!
BUT: if you plug in your battery every evening with about 25% remaining, the battery will suffer from memory effects and you'll loose capacity on a long term!

Personally, I've got the charging bundle and 3 spare batteries for my Z10!
I can't remember my phone being plugged into anything...
My friends chins drop if we go on a hiking trip, everyone runs out of battery with their crappy iPhones and I just take a fresh battery out of my backpack and put it in!

Posted on CB 10 and typed on the best Keyboard ever

[Katika99]

You know, I really sympathize with those who wish their cars have non-removable tires. That if they drive too fast their nuts will come loose and the wheels will drop off ....

Your comparison don't work.

BTW, Passport will have more than 24h of battery life with heavy usage, so I don't understand the fuss. Charge the device overnight, charge once again the device at work and it will work for two days, it's not that difficult.

Posted via my Q10

[tinochiko]

OP didn't get his point across: it's not about the battery capacity, a built-in battery is crap even of it it's 8000mah!

If you're a damn heavy user you need your device every second , you can't afford to plug it into a wall or a bulky charger!

It's not about the size, but a lot more about the mobility!
The larger the battery, the longer it takes to charge.

Another point: a lot people mention, the battery just needs to run a working day, so you can charge it over night!
BUT: if you plug in your battery every evening with about 25% remaining, the battery will suffer from memory effects and you'll loose capacity on a long term!

Personally, I've got the charging bundle and 3 spare batteries for my Z10!
I can't remember my phone being plugged into anything...
My friends chins drop if we go on a hiking trip, everyone runs out of battery with their crappy iPhones and I just take a fresh battery out of my backpack and put it in!

Posted on CB 10 and typed on the best Keyboard ever

Except the seconds you spend swapping out the battery right?

There are 10,000 mah packs that are arguably as equally bulky as carrying around multiple spare batteries + battery pack

Not necessarily, just needs a faster charger (per your point that larger batteries take longer to charge)

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[Ventus221]

I don't fully agree. I mean look at the battery in the Passport, it's immense. At the level you will be using that thing (for both enterprise and consumers) I don't think that it's a huge need to have that, especially with Power Packs that are sold for BB 10 devices. I mean in all honesty, is an additional battery that you can pull should your phone drain that important over the packs BB sells?

[Shadowyugi]

Wow... I don't know about you guys, but I can't stand having to keep changing batteries. I am very comfortable rolling around with a charger instead because it means whatever I was doing stays, rather than having to keep changing batteries like I'm hard resetting my phone.

That being said, i like it as an option especially for when batteries die completely. Because that happens and you want to be able to replace your battery and keep chugging on like the battery death never happened.

[collinc93]

and if the battery lasts for two days with very heavy use what then? Complain just the same about nonremovable battery?

[Q10Bold]

The BlackBerry Classic should have a removable battery. All Bolds got them- otherwise the Classic wont be a BlackBerry Classic!

Posted via Q10Bold

[decoy7]

External battery pack is the way forward, I would never invest in extra batteries for a specific device again.

1x Anker battery pack can recharge all of your devices, 3 at the same time if you need it to and will outlast even 3 spare batteries.

No one is using their phone that much during the day that they can't plug a battery pack in and recharge it on the go.

Q10SQN100-3/10.2.1.3175

[Carrtman]

It must have for me, period. I don't care about powerpacks.

For me it's about convenience and knowing I can repair my phone by myself once the battery is AWOL or for whatever reason stops working, drains too fast etc..

Sadly the pro fixed battery crowd doesn't understand that point.

To put it simple:
non removable battery = goodbye BB and hello LG G 3 cat.6

but I'm pretty sure they aren't dumb enough to risk the success of the Classic by having a non removable battery or no micro SD support.

[Morten]

Have you ever tried walking down a busy street talking on the phone with a power pack dangling from your ear?

Nope, but yes- on two occasions with my Z10 I popped-in the external batterypack pack from BlackBerry, slim fit, and attached with the USB cable.. not bulky at all. I didn't even have to hang-up, replace battery, call back - I just plugged it in while talking - no fuzz. After the convo, back in the pocket - and after an hour or so there was more than enough juice on the phone to get me through the day - without replacing the battery.

With the Z30 I have also had to do similar a few times, - but never felt any discomfort not being able to replace the battery.. .On the Z10 I "could" have replaced, but it was better solution to just plug-in the flat tiny batterypack and use the built-in short cable to connect.

[TgeekB]

Have you ever tried walking down a busy street talking on the phone with a power pack dangling from your ear?

That could become a new fashion statement!

�To conquer oneself is a greater task than conquering others� Buddha

[TGR1]

If the removable batteries aren't hot swappable, then you have to power off every time you switch. That's not as desirable to me as just plugging in a power bank and continuing on, although of course the power bank is more awkward.

[TgeekB]

The power pack with my Q10 gives me the option of both.

�To conquer oneself is a greater task than conquering others� Buddha

[OTCHRussell]

I have the charger bundles for both my Q10 and Z10. It is the best of both worlds:
I can charge either phone (or both) in the car without removing the battery.
I can take the little charger with me (it's tiny) and plug it into my phone on the go without removing the battery.
I can change the battery if it is really low and I don't want to wait for it to charge or have the charger dangling from my ear.
If I am at a dog show in the middle of a field, I can leave my spare battery charging in my car, ready to go if I need it. Especially if I am in a location with poor reception that drains the battery.
That doesn't count the fact that batteries die for good and have to be changed. I have 3 batteries and a battery pack for my old 9000. I used that phone for 4 1/2 years and 2 of the batteries are now no good. But the phone is fine.
Non-removable battery could be a deal breaker for me!!

Posted on my Q10 or Z10

[Omahahaha]

Just carry a power pack. That's what I do when I travel with my Z30. No difference from putting in a new battery. In fact my power pack has the power of three batteries.

Power packs are great when I can set my device down and let it charge. If I'm using my device on the move, I don't want to have to hold the device and the power pack, being careful not to stress the connection point on either.

[Branta]

Another point: a lot people mention, the battery just needs to run a working day, so you can charge it over night!
BUT: if you plug in your battery every evening with about 25% remaining, the battery will suffer from memory effects and you'll loose capacity on a long term!

Welcome to 2014 where smart charging and Lithium based batteries are standard. The so called memory effect went away about (before?) 2004 when NiCd batteries were discontinued for consumer applications.

[Branta]

I am sure the reason has something to do with size or thickness. Then again, how would having a sliding door to open like on my 9930 make it thicker or weigh more?

The size difference can be significant. A sealed phone doesn't need the outer enclosure and rectangular footprint for the battery. The cell pack can be irregular shape and thinner skinned to get more cell capacity into the space available without compromising safety and durability.

[sir.dangerfield]

I've always appreciated removable batteries. Swaping batteries daily instead of plugging in the phone is more convenient to me than the "old fashioned way". I keep two spares and it keeps me wall free.
That being said. If the Passport has wireless charging, BlackBerry can change the game again.
Instead of being tied to a power plug or replacing a battery and rebooting the phone, BlackBerry can build a wireless charging device that holds a large (5000+ mAh) charge. With said charging device, we could simply lay our phone on "Charge Pad" throughout the day. That would keep us wireless and mobile when we need it and we can keep the "Charge Pad" plugged in when possible. With the large battery of the Passport, one should last a day already, but if the phone is kept charging whenever put down, the "charge pad" will only need to be charged a couple times a week and the Passport can easily keep a significant charge. I have high hopes in this concept. What does Crackberry think?

Q10

[Dave Bourque]

Do you sleep nightly ? You can charge nightly too. Battery will last the entire day.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247

[tinochiko]

Do you sleep nightly ? You can charge nightly too. Battery will last the entire day.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247

What if you are in desert, nowhere to charge but you can have removable battery to send some snaps

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[lift]

It's not just about convenience. What about when the battery starts to lose it's capacity to hold a full charge. You can't replace it with a new battery yourself.
How about that phone that's only about 13 months old and the battery decides to go bad. You can't replace it yourself.
To me, manufacturers put non-replaceable batteries because they want you to have to send your phone in to have the battery replaced and out of warranty is usually when that needs to happen. Think about it.

[lauyerman]

I used to think a removable battery was a must, but since using the BlackBerry battery combo charger thing, it really is convenient to just plug it into my Q10 instead of swapping batteries. Its thin enough to comfortably use when typing or phone use.

Plus I don't have to wait for that ridiculous boot up sequence

Posted via CB10

[Dave Bourque]

What if you are in desert, nowhere to charge but you can have removable battery to send some snaps

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I wouldn't be using a smartphone in a desert. A long-lasting satellite phone would be better in this case...

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247

[cbvinh]

I agree that having a removable battery is useful, though in my opinion, only for extending the life of the device by allowing the user an easy way to replace an old battery. I have a BlackBerry power pack, MP-2100, and it's quite easy to hold it, along with the phone, to use the phone while it is charging. Plugging in the power pack means instant usage instead of having to power down, replacing the battery, and powering back up again. The only drawback I've found with the MP-2100, though, is that it discharges must faster than an idle battery.