[dwaynewilliams#WN]

I believe physical keyboards are necessary for smaller devices. I couldn't imagine trying to type on a touchscreen device the size of my curve. Also the physical keyboard allows for keyboard shortcuts. I also like having the keyboard readily accessible at all times. I am sure that the physical keyboard will become obsolete at some point. But as for now I believe they are still relevant. Lastly, I have never been as accurate on a touchscreen keyboard as I have been on my BB even when using predictive type. Without predictive type on a touchscreen it would definitely be no contest.

[kittencounter]

The first time I realized that ppl can type on touchscreen as fast as on hard keyboard is when I was in Denmark 2 years ago. When I was in the clubs I always saw the girls typing blazing fast on their Android phones (yes...all Androids..no iPhones) while they were dancing. After staring at them like a creep I talked to one of them and she showed me how she types on that thing...and yes...she was damn fast. She told me that they always use smartphones to chat with friends in the same club to avoid shouting at each other like crazy. ..

[soogriff]

I'm not a fan of voice dictation at all. I'll always opt to type out my messages.

[jegs2]

Are keyboards on phones really needed?

Yes, thus the reason I abandoned my 9850.

[hispanola]

I agree and I point this out to a lot of people

if the Keyboard didn't still have value how the heck has RIM been able to sell Millions of devices, even in North America where the price game isn't as important YES they aren't the number 1 selling devices, but there are people who price is no object who STILL buy BlackBerry's because of the keyboard, I recall one pop star tweeting ( I want to say Katy Perry, but I very much could be wrong) that she is Back to her BlackBerry she just couldn't handle the touchscreen, and other stars equally choose BlackBerry, I'm sure the data compression, or cost of the device don't really factor into their buying decisions, yet some still rock OS5 devices because the keyboard is just too good for them to want to make a change.

RIM must understand this is how they've kept some of their customer base, they KNOW that they can't be only physical keyboard, but the loss of it completely would be detrimental to their current fan base, and current support network

And that's why the more I think about it, the more I believe BB10 will not be the savior RIM needs, especially if the initial device is touchscreen only. The #1 goal of BB10 should be to stop the bleeding and keep current BB users from upgrading to non-BB devices. A good percentage of BB users want a keyboard. I can tell you that in NYC, I have seen maybe one or two 9850/60 Torch BBs (all touchscreen), which pales in comparison to the number of 9810 Torch BBs (w/ keyboard) I have seen (won't even include the Bold). Funny thing is the 9810 Torch BBs (w/ keyboard) are only on one carrier while the 9850/60 Torch BBs (all touchscreen) are on the two largest carriers.

[belfastdispatcher]

Just because the majority don't want it should the minority not have it?

[Pete6]

And that's why the more I think about it, the more I believe BB10 will not be the savior RIM needs, especially if the initial device is touchscreen only. The #1 goal of BB10 should be to stop the bleeding and keep current BB users from upgrading to non-BB devices. A good percentage of BB users want a keyboard. I can tell you that in NYC, I have seen maybe one or two 9850/60 Torch BBs (all touchscreen), which pales in comparison to the number of 9810 Torch BBs (w/ keyboard) I have seen (won't even include the Bold). Funny thing is the 9810 Torch BBs (w/ keyboard) are only on one carrier while the 9850/60 Torch BBs (all touchscreen) are on the two largest carriers.

Oh yeah, for sure. Touch screens are for people who browse and look at content. Maybe they send emails and text and posts on boards but you must have a physical keyboard to truly generate content beyond about half a page. deRusset shows this with his typing speed comparison.

[ubizmo]

And that's why the more I think about it, the more I believe BB10 will not be the savior RIM needs, especially if the initial device is touchscreen only. The #1 goal of BB10 should be to stop the bleeding and keep current BB users from upgrading to non-BB devices. A good percentage of BB users want a keyboard.

If the keyboard were a dealbreaker, the bleeding wouldn't be what it is. The bleeding is happening despite the fine keyboards available. The #1 goal should not be to cater to us keyboard diehards. Our day is ending. The #1 goal should be to make an impression on the millions who either already left or who never even gave BB a passing glance.

Then, if things start to turn around, go back and take care of the diehards. RIM's current plan is exactly right.

[ubizmo]

Maybe they send emails and text and posts on boards but you must have a physical keyboard to truly generate content beyond about half a page. deRusset shows this with his typing speed comparison.

It's just not so. I've written long documents on mobile devices, so I know whereof I speak. deRusset's speed comparison ignores Swype, which after a learning period is as fast as or faster than a keyboard. I wouldn't have believed it without doing it myself though, so I understand the skepticism.

The comparison of either tapping keys or tapping glass is a false dilemma. Swype is a fluid cursive movement and the accuracy of the software is much improved over its earlier versions. Granted, it's only available on Android at the moment, but it's possible to emulate it, and RIM should do so.

[Taigatrommel]

Swype is also available for Symbian devices as well as Meego on the Nokia N9. I tried it back then, while I don't want to say it sucks, I couldn't get used to it. Longer text with just swiping on the screen for me just didn't feel right.

On another sidenote I believe the keyboard is still a strong selling point for RIM. Many manufacturers abondened it, it is mostly Nokia which is left in the keyboard game. I'd say if RIM would've only released touchscreen OS7 devices, sales would've been much worse than they are now.

[_StephenBB81]

It's just not so. I've written long documents on mobile devices, so I know whereof I speak. deRusset's speed comparison ignores Swype, which after a learning period is as fast as or faster than a keyboard. I wouldn't have believed it without doing it myself though, so I understand the skepticism.

The comparison of either tapping keys or tapping glass is a false dilemma. Swype is a fluid cursive movement and the accuracy of the software is much improved over its earlier versions. Granted, it's only available on Android at the moment, but it's possible to emulate it, and RIM should do so.

I was under the impression swype was only good for single dictionary language text,
once one mixes numbers, and comma lists swypes advantages disappear,
THOUGH it would be faster I'm sure, how does one get swype on an iPhone?

and the copy/paste issue, which was the larger issue over typing speed for me doesn't get solved with swype.

[_StephenBB81]

And that's why the more I think about it, the more I believe BB10 will not be the savior RIM needs, especially if the initial device is touchscreen only. The #1 goal of BB10 should be to stop the bleeding and keep current BB users from upgrading to non-BB devices. A good percentage of BB users want a keyboard. I can tell you that in NYC, I have seen maybe one or two 9850/60 Torch BBs (all touchscreen), which pales in comparison to the number of 9810 Torch BBs (w/ keyboard) I have seen (won't even include the Bold). Funny thing is the 9810 Torch BBs (w/ keyboard) are only on one carrier while the 9850/60 Torch BBs (all touchscreen) are on the two largest carriers.

I really think you need to do more thinking.
The more you think about it the more you think RIM should cater to those that it already has by the short and curly's?

Those keyboard affectionados have nowhere to go but RIM, RIM should be spending the launch of BB10 to bring the people who have no interest in the Physical keyboard over to BlackBerry, those of us with keyboard additions will wait, I know I have purchased a few extra BlackBerry 7 devices just to ensure I have a quality working phone while I wait for BB10 QWERTY to launch, and I'm happy to wait to be second if it means the greater adoption of BlackBerry devices across the market place so I can be more social again when at public events, I literally wear my PIN on my sleeve, (with a bar code) yet my email, and cellphone number are far more guarded.

[ubizmo]

I was under the impression swype was only good for single dictionary language text,

once one mixes numbers, and comma lists swypes advantages disappear,

THOUGH it would be faster I'm sure, how does one get swype on an iPhone?

To be sure, Swype isn't much help with multi-language work. Working with numbers is at least as easy as on a BB. For extended number entry, you can with a swipe bring up a numeric/symbol keypad. For occasional numbers you just swipe upward on the keys that have them, which is actually faster than using the BB Alt key.

and the copy/paste issue, which was the larger issue over typing speed for me doesn't get solved with swype.

Actually, it does. You can, with a swipe, get a text selection screen with arrows to move your selection points around. I only recently learned about this! But it works well.

Compared to what it was like a year or so ago, Swype's accuracy is impressive. At first I didn't trust it, so I'd stop after every word to check what I just did, but eventually got into the flow of it. Another nice feature is the ability to go back to a word and swipe up on the shift key. You get the option to capitalize the first letter, no letter, or all letters of a word.

It's not available for iPhone, as far as I know. I think Google owns Swype now. I don't know if they're licensing to any competitors. I know WP doesn't have it, but they haven't released a keyboard API so no one else can try either.

My real point is that Swype should be seen as a fundamentally different form of text entry and not just another case of "tapping on glass." And when it comes to how human beings interact in this basic way with a mobile device, it's good to have options.

BBOS is very good about giving us visual options: fonts, sizes, etc. There should be more than one way to do text entry. Flexibility is a strength of the touch screen. RIM should take advantage of it. They can make something like Swype but better.

[_StephenBB81]

To be sure, Swype isn't much help with multi-language work. Working with numbers is at least as easy as on a BB. For extended number entry, you can with a swipe bring up a numeric/symbol keypad. For occasional numbers you just swipe upward on the keys that have them, which is actually faster than using the BB Alt key.

Actually, it does. You can, with a swipe, get a text selection screen with arrows to move your selection points around. I only recently learned about this! But it works well.

Compared to what it was like a year or so ago, Swype's accuracy is impressive. At first I didn't trust it, so I'd stop after every word to check what I just did, but eventually got into the flow of it. Another nice feature is the ability to go back to a word and swipe up on the shift key. You get the option to capitalize the first letter, no letter, or all letters of a word.

It's not available for iPhone, as far as I know. I think Google owns Swype now. I don't know if they're licensing to any competitors. I know WP doesn't have it, but they haven't released a keyboard API so no one else can try either.

My real point is that Swype should be seen as a fundamentally different form of text entry and not just another case of "tapping on glass." And when it comes to how human beings interact in this basic way with a mobile device, it's good to have options.

BBOS is very good about giving us visual options: fonts, sizes, etc. There should be more than one way to do text entry. Flexibility is a strength of the touch screen. RIM should take advantage of it. They can make something like Swype but better.

I always was intrigued with swype and it seems they have come a long way, the usefulness in typing in non-American English would still be a challenge, I am far from an English major having taken Engineering in University but I have found with the introduction of smartphones into business correspondence I am seeing far more signatures saying things like “excuse the typo’s sent from my iPhone” or “excuse the brevity sent from my Samsung Galaxy on the Rogers network”.
It bothers me that language is being so bastardized by the touchscreen devices because using punctuation is more of a challenge, proof reading is a thing of the past, yet it is even more important with word guessing tools like swype and predictive text of the iPhone.

It’s the little things, if typing to an American customer I type Center. Typing to anyone else in the world, Centre, I say aluminum to north Americans, and aluminium to the UK and her colonies. The things Autocorrects must be taught, like the proper way to say the last letter of the Alphabet being Zed, or the way Honour has a U, as with colour and favourite. Those little things are lost with they non keying of each key

[ubizmo]

I am far from an English major having taken Engineering in University but I have found with the introduction of smartphones into business correspondence I am seeing far more signatures saying things like “excuse the typo’s sent from my iPhone” or “excuse the brevity sent from my Samsung Galaxy on the Rogers network”.

It bothers me that language is being so bastardized by the touchscreen devices because using punctuation is more of a challenge, proof reading is a thing of the past, yet it is even more important with word guessing tools like swype and predictive text of the iPhone.

I was an English major as an undergraduate and I like to get punctuation right, although I make my share of mistakes, even when there's no mobile device involved. Punctuation is no harder with Swype than it is with a hard keyboard. Arguably it's easier, since the commonly used ones have dedicated keys. But the user has to care, and Swype can't fix that.

It’s the little things, if typing to an American customer I type Center. Typing to anyone else in the world, Centre, I say aluminum to north Americans, and aluminium to the UK and her colonies. The things Autocorrects must be taught, like the proper way to say the last letter of the Alphabet being Zed, or the way Honour has a U, as with colour and favourite. Those little things are lost with they non keying of each key

You can add what you want to the Swype dictionary. Assuming there's a UK setting that you can choose (I don't see one on my phone, but I bought it in the US), you can add Noah Webster's spellings so Swype won't try to "fix" them. Or, if no non-US dictionary is available, you can add "colour", "practise", "centre" and the like to the dictionary and Swype will recognize them.

[_StephenBB81]

You can add what you want to the Swype dictionary. Assuming there's a UK setting that you can choose (I don't see one on my phone, but I bought it in the US), you can add Noah Webster's spellings so Swype won't try to "fix" them. Or, if no non-US dictionary is available, you can add "colour", "practise", "centre" and the like to the dictionary and Swype will recognize them.

from my understanding of swype was that it used a predictive text engine so you didn't necessarily have to stop on each letter while typing the word.

so an instance like colour you'd be gliding over the U?
is this not the case? is swype simply a means of dragging my fingers but I still stop on each key?

I'll have to spend some dedicated time with swype when I pick up the SG3

[ubizmo]

from my understanding of swype was that it used a predictive text engine so you didn't necessarily have to stop on each letter while typing the word.



so an instance like colour you'd be gliding over the U?

That's correct. You glide over the letters and Swype guesses what word you're going for. You don't have to hit the letters exactly because it goes by the general "shape" of the word. You don't stop in mid-word. Lifting your finger signals the start of a new word.

Therefore Swype can only give you words that are in its dictionary. New words must be tapped in and, if you think you'll need them again, added to the dictionary.

I have about 500 common English word abbreviated in my BB auto-text dictionary. This gives me a lot of speed with the BB keyboard, but when I need a word, such as "dictionary," for which I don't have an abbreviation, I must spell it out of course. Swype tends to be faster for this. So BB is faster when my auto-text shorthand is in play; slower when it's not.

I think most BB users don't use auto-text to the extent that I do. There's no auto-text in Swype.

[Chrisy]

If physical keyboards were irrelevant our computers would be all touch. They're not for a reason.

Belfast brought this up before, but the site DamnYouAutoCorrect is an example of why virtual keyboards are not as efficient. I could type fast too on my Android but there were many more mistakes. I tried a bunch of different keyboards too. Some took up over half the screen. Others were better but no where near the accuracy of a physical.

[belfastdispatcher]

That's correct. You glide over the letters and Swype guesses what word you're going for. You don't have to hit the letters exactly because it goes by the general "shape" of the word. You don't stop in mid-word. Lifting your finger signals the start of a new word.

Therefore Swype can only give you words that are in its dictionary. New words must be tapped in and, if you think you'll need them again, added to the dictionary.

I have about 500 common English word abbreviated in my BB auto-text dictionary. This gives me a lot of speed with the BB keyboard, but when I need a word, such as "dictionary," for which I don't have an abbreviation, I must spell it out of course. Swype tends to be faster for this. So BB is faster when my auto-text shorthand is in play; slower when it's not.

I think most BB users don't use auto-text to the extent that I do. There's no auto-text in Swype.

Actually most people do use it, prob don't know it, type il and it will be changed to I'll for example, there's lots of them preset in the BB already. Youre also gets changed to you're, another example.

[ubizmo]

Actually most people do use it, prob don't know it, type il and it will be changed to I'll for example, there's lots of them preset in the BB already. Youre also gets changed to you're, another example.

Yes, they use the built-in common typo corrections and that's about it. What I do is very different. I've built a shorthand of abbreviations of commonly used English words and phrases, so that by using this shorthand I save lots of keystrokes in just about every sentence.

Examples:
cmn = common
nd = need
ndt = need to
wt = want
wtt = want to
bcs = because
gng = going
gngt = going to
tdy = today
yst = yesterday
tmr = tomorrow

...and so on. As I say, I currently have about 500 of them, and since I've added them gradually over a period of years (starting back in 2003 with the SideKick), there's no question of my forgetting them. Even if some abbreviations only save a single keystroke, as in "mch = much", if it's a common enough word, it adds up to a lot of savings. For example, I just wrote "common enough word" but in fact using auto-text I actually typed "cmn enf wrd", which is 11 keystrokes (including spaces) instead of 18, saving 7 keystrokes in just that phrase. This sort of economy is happening ("hpng") all the time when I write. The end result is I can write at a pretty good clip on the BB.

But there are still plenty of less common words, like "economy", for which I don't have abbreviations. I have to spell these out. I can actually do this faster with Swype.

So, when I say that most BB users don't use auto-text to the extent that I do, this is what I mean. I know there are a few other auto-text power users out there, but I think most people just use the built-in corrections, and maybe a few added special words or phrases.

The PB has predictive text, courtesy of SwiftKey, but not auto-text. The two don't really work together. If I could, I'd rather have the option to export my BB auto-text dictionary to the PB and use it there, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. From the looks of it, BB10 will go the same way. The predictive text on the PB is about the best I've experienced, but I'd still rather use my auto-text shorthand.

[Chrisy]

I'm the same as you. I have auto text shorthand that I started back in 2008. My list is huge. I also have full sentences in my auto text such as:

Ddd=I'm driving, I will get back to you as soon as possible.
Ily= I love you
Omw= I'm on my way home! See you soon.

I do that one if I'm stopped and need to let someone know.

[Chrisy]

I was under the impression that some Android keyboards had Word Substitution though? No?

[ubizmo]

If physical keyboards were irrelevant our computers would be all touch. They're not for a reason.

Belfast brought this up before, but the site DamnYouAutoCorrect is an example of why virtual keyboards are not as efficient. I could type fast too on my Android but there were many more mistakes. I tried a bunch of different keyboards too. Some took up over half the screen. Others were better but no where near the accuracy of a physical.

Well, I don't think anyone is arguing that all physical keyboards are irrelevant. For sheer speed, nothing beats a full-size keyboard that we can use with all fingers on both hands, especially to a touch typist. But that doesn't really have much to do with the miniature keyboards on mobile devices.

If I had to tap-type on a virtual keyboard, it would be a train wreck. I had a WP phone for a few months and although the predictive text was pretty good, I never achieved any real accuracy. Swype, however, was a different story. It didn't take long to get to where it worked as well as the BB keyboard.

I can make good use of Swype or a physical keyboard with auto-text; anything else is a step backward for me.

[ubizmo]

I was under the impression that some Android keyboards had Word Substitution though? No?

I think so, but I'm still pretty new to Android, and strictly part-time. I think the whole glass-tapping thing, even with auto-text, would still be less effective than Swype. Plus, I'd have to do the whole dictionary by hand...

[pantlesspenguin]

If physical keyboards were irrelevant our computers would be all touch. They're not for a reason.

Belfast brought this up before, but the site DamnYouAutoCorrect is an example of why virtual keyboards are not as efficient. I could type fast too on my Android but there were many more mistakes. I tried a bunch of different keyboards too. Some took up over half the screen. Others were better but no where near the accuracy of a physical.

^This. Even though I'm fast on a touch screen phone, I'm absolutely horrible on a tablet. And whenever I REALLY want to send a long message or type out a long document, to the laptop I go. I doubt I'll ever be faster on ANYTHING than I will on a full physical computer keyboard.

I LOVE DamnYouAutoCorrect, but it really baffles me how the iPhone autocorrect and Android's autocorrect are so different. There are MANY more iPhone entries on that site than Android, and I don't understand why that is. Plus, there are many 3rd party Android keyboards, and autocorrect behaves differently on each one. I can't remember which keyboard this was, but one liked to autocorrect to names of my contacts. After a couple weird/embarrassing errors I quickly uninstalled that keyboard lol.

Also, that kind of goes to show that not all touch keyboards are created equal. For me, I've never found a keyboard I like more than the stock Touch Input keyboard on HTC devices. Sometimes I'll want to try something different, but I never stay on another keyboard for more than a week. I'm kind of wanting to give Swype another go now, though! I have HTC Trace enabled on my keyboard, but I very, very rarely use it. It's worse than Swype was 2 years ago, if that says anything!