View Poll Results: Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

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  • Yes: Comebacks happen all the time!

    44 75.86%
  • No way, only Jobs could pull off something like this.

    14 24.14%
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  1. BB10BelieveIt's Avatar
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    Default Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    One of the biggest arguments the media has made against an Apple-style comeback for RIM is the Steve Jobs factor. While I have an enormous amount of respect for what he did, he was not the only child of the computer revolution that was both a visionary and a genius. I came across this clip of Gary Klassen, the inventor of BBM, speaking last month about the BB10 usability and why it will be a game changer. He speaks for 11 minutes.

    I think Mike L was brilliant for realizing that the old OS was not going to cut it going forward and assembling the best in class set of companies that he did for BB10. I think making Thor the CEO was his next brilliant move. Thor has already proven that he can execute by surprising Wall St and turning what should have been a horrendous quarter into a solid win and getting BB10 on track for Q1.

    So, even though I cannot predict how the launch will go, I am starting to think they at least have the people in place to pull it off. What do you think?
    Last edited by zaman59; 11-02-2012 at 11:41 PM.
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  2. MartyMcfly's Avatar
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    Default Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    Rimm would have to tap into a new market in order to become Apple, however I think they could improve their current situation.


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  3. iBuilder's Avatar
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    Default Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaman59 View Post
    One of the biggest arguments the media has made against an Apple-style comeback for RIM is the Steve Jobs factor. While I have an enormous amount of respect for what he did, he was not the only child of the computer revolution that was both a visionary and a genius. I came across this clip of Gary Klassen, the inventor of BBM, speaking last month about the BB10 usability and why it will be a game changer. He speaks for 11 minutes.

    I think Mike L was brilliant for realizing that the old OS was not going to cut it going forward and assembling the best in class set of companies that he did for BB10. I think making Thor the CEO was his next brilliant move. Thor has already proven that he can execute by surprising Wall St and turning what should have been a horrendous quarter into a solid win and getting BB10 on track for Q1.

    So, even though I cannot predict how the launch will go, I am starting to think they at least have the people in place to pull it off. What do you think?
    Comeback, yes. "Apple-style" comeback, no.


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  4. BB10BelieveIt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    By Apple-style, I mean coming back from the dead, not becoming the biggest company in the history of humanity.
    Follow the breadcrumb trail of RIM's epic comeback with BB10BelieveIt on Twitter at @CrumbsObserver
  5. iBuilder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaman59 View Post
    By Apple-style, I mean coming back from the dead, not becoming the biggest company in the history of humanity.
    Anything's possible. Jobs was dethroned by his own company, on his return brought Apple to its current level of success. Let's check in on Mike L in a few years and see if he'll do the same.
  6. Caymancroc's Avatar
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    Default Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaman59 View Post
    By Apple-style, I mean coming back from the dead, not becoming the biggest company in the history of humanity.
    I think so. In the past, I didn't think so. The difference is today I think they are one upping the Steve Jobs factor and actually listening to people who are using their devices. This will hopefully not make me the beta user of the product (cough...Playbook...cough).

    There are a thousand or five thousand or whatever dev alpha devices out in the marketplace, all likely able to generate feedback to RIM. I am sure Kevin's device might have a bug or whatever and there could be a way to fire off an email ahead of time saying the keyboard is glitchy or whatever (like my current iPhone).

    Also, I liked what I saw this evening on Crackberry where RIM acknowledged the visual icon look was not ideal. Seems as though they are paying attention and open to getting the feedback of the public. This is even better than having one person (Jobs or whoever) tell someone what they want.

    Will they be the leader next year? No. Will they survive? My bet is they will and it will likely be more successful than most people think.
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    Default Re: Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    RIM may very well have a person with the caliber of SJ now, yet we wont know that until the turn around is complete.
    I understand the love of SJ but RIM doesn't have to become anything like apple to be a huge success.
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  8. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caymancroc View Post
    I think so. In the past, I didn't think so. The difference is today I think they are one upping the Steve Jobs factor and actually listening to people who are using their devices. This will hopefully not make me the beta user of the product (cough...Playbook...cough).
    Really disruptive products/technologies are not created by listening to your customers. It's done by creating something your customers don't even know they want yet. There's the old Henry Ford quote that goes something like, "If I had listened to my customers, I wouldn't be making cars, I would be making faster horse drawn carriages."
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  9. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaman59 View Post
    By Apple-style, I mean coming back from the dead, not becoming the biggest company in the history of humanity.
    They're not dead yet. They're quite a bit better off than Apple was back in 1997.
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  10. cgk
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    Default Re: Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    Beyond a superficial level, the companies, the history context and the contemporary reality are so different that such a analogue is meaningless - forget the apple style come-back and stick to the baby steps - can RIM release a phone (BB10) that they can sell in sufficient volume and with sufficient margins that they can make a profit - we can tell the answer to that within two full quarters of release.
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  11. berriac's Avatar
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    Default Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    Really disruptive products/technologies are not created by listening to your customers. It's done by creating something your customers don't even know they want yet. There's the old Henry Ford quote that goes something like, "If I had listened to my customers, I wouldn't be making cars, I would be making faster horse drawn carriages."
    Well said
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  12. ichat's Avatar
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    #12  

    Default Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    Short post and carries no opinion on the OP but I love the fact you're calling CEO thor. Gives us a cool impression on who RIM is led by.

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  13. richardat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    Quote Originally Posted by cgk View Post
    Beyond a superficial level, the companies, the history context and the contemporary reality are so different that such a analogue is meaningless - forget the apple style come-back and stick to the baby steps - can RIM release a phone (BB10) that they can sell in sufficient volume and with sufficient margins that they can make a profit - we can tell the answer to that within two full quarters of release.
    Thanks, I've often said, and posted here a couple times, that the line: "Apple was once almost dead, and look what happened!" is meaningless, for the exact reason you laid out. There are SO many factors, and differences between the two.....you might as well compare RIM to Mcdonalds, or Pavel Bure, or Apollo 11.....
  14. Caymancroc's Avatar
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    Default Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    Really disruptive products/technologies are not created by listening to your customers. It's done by creating something your customers don't even know they want yet. There's the old Henry Ford quote that goes something like, "If I had listened to my customers, I wouldn't be making cars, I would be making faster horse drawn carriages."
    I liked this but RIM is not Ford. Ford also didn't invent the automobile. RIM can bring us their innovation but at this point, when they are struggling back if they don't listen to what are obviously a bunch of free beta users for input then they will be dead. This would have helped them out a bit with the Playbook if they actually had done it. I had one the first day it was released and it was awful. If they gave me that product a month ahead of time I would have been able to provide some very valuable feedback.

    I guess what you missed from my post is that, we consumers don't need another OS that is buggy and laggy. I have that in ios6.0 now. HAHAHAHA. Also, nice to see RIM is open to input.

    Ford also is famous for saying you can have any color as long as it is black. A simple openness would have probably found that people were willing to pay additional for colors.

    Also didn't Mike Lazaridis famously not listen to the marketplace?

    http://bgr.com/2011/07/13/rims-insid...tphones-smart/
  15. stackberry369's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    Jobs got lucky with the iphone aka as ipod touch that you can nake calls on.the eyepad is a giant iphone,so you basically buy the same product with different functions.
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    Default Re: Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    I hate the Apple analogy comparing Apple to Rim. There are too many factors and players in the game right now to have an Apple style comeback when so many OEM's offer the same things in terms of features. The question is can Thor sell the OS and make the customer seem like they have to purchase that product like Steve Jobs did? RIM will have to make the "Flow and Hub" attractive to the to the regular consumer along with selling an ecosystem that will attract new users.
  17. cgk
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    Default RE: Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    I think you've missed his point - that to be like Ford, RIM would need a pivot into a completely new area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caymancroc View Post
    I liked this but RIM is not Ford. Ford also didn't invent the automobile. RIM can bring us their innovation but at this point, when they are struggling back if they don't listen to what are obviously a bunch of free beta users for input then they will be dead. This would have helped them out a bit with the Playbook if they actually had done it. I had one the first day it was released and it was awful. If they gave me that product a month ahead of time I would have been able to provide some very valuable feedback.

    I guess what you missed from my post is that, we consumers don't need another OS that is buggy and laggy. I have that in ios6.0 now. HAHAHAHA. Also, nice to see RIM is open to input.

    Ford also is famous for saying you can have any color as long as it is black. A simple openness would have probably found that people were willing to pay additional for colors.

    Also didn't Mike Lazaridis famously not listen to the marketplace?

    http://bgr.com/2011/07/13/rims-insid...tphones-smart/
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    Default Re: Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    You cannot compare apples with oranges....or in this case Apples with BlackBerrys!

    They are two entirely different companies with entirely different ethos, as it should be and each company knows it. RIM can be rightly proud of inventing the 'smartphone' concept but they should not try to copy what Apple have done, simply because Apple have already done it and no one likes a copycat.

    What should RIM do? Well perhaps here's a idea which many won't pallet, but what about a BB on an Andriod platform? It could actually work especially in the teens and 20s market. Prop up the product with a popular OS and sell to more potential BB owners and allow that money to then be plowed back into RIM as a whole to develop higher spec products for the Business market which is where it's real strengths lay and where real loyality exists.

    I'm not a business person or economist so there may be very real practical reasons why this cannot and won't happen. I just see it from a BB users (and iPhone user) point of view.

    Apple style comback, maybe, but it should be a BlackBerry style comeback which everyone remembers
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  19. FFR
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    Default Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikki_G View Post
    You cannot compare apples with oranges....or in this case Apples with BlackBerrys!
    Yes you can, and should.
    This is the primary reason rim finds itself in the position it is in today.

    Rim's collective brain-trust between 2007 and 2011
    Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?-imageuploadedbytapatalk1351956761.451738.jpg
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    Default Re: Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    Yes, Thorsten Heins can be the new Steve Jobs.
    Have I really been here for three years?
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  21. cgk
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    Default Re: Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    Quote Originally Posted by r0v3rT3N View Post
    Yes, Thorsten Heins can be the new Steve Jobs.
    Doubtful - leaving aside the fact that he appears to be a steady but not particularly interesting technocrat - the culture at RIM and share ownership of the company would not seem to allow it - at this stage in his career Jobs had done some amazing things, Heins is a solid corporate drone but nothing more - plus rightly or wrongly, Jobs being a sociopath was what made him what he was - Heins seems too rounded.
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  22. Harry_III_UK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    Tech is a funny game, and it is hard to stay ahead of the curve for too long.

    Not so long ago, Nokia were top of the tree. Then along came Apple.

    IBM?

    AltaVista?

    Yahoo?

    Microsoft even?

    I'd say it is possible for RIM to come back from the dead - but it is sad to see so many govt departments leaving the ship when BB10 is around the corner. Perhaps they have to set their budgets now, and can't wait on BB10 pricing any longer and they just have to make a decision?

    Once that BES hardware leaves the govt. sector - it isn't going to come back.

    BES is, for RIM, a double edged sword. It makes for super secure devices and is a good system (we used to use it and it was fabulous). It is a cash cow for RIM. BUT at the same time it represents a HUGE barrier to entry for companies wanting to trial BB or for companies to come back to RIM once they have left. Not just the cost of the BES (which I seem to recall was hideously expensive at the time) but also the cost of training the IT technicians to administer it and keeping those skills current.

    So, the conversation in the boardroom:

    "I think we should deploy BB10 for our Enterprise messaging solution"

    "What do we have to spend?"

    "Well, we'll need to train the technicians, buy BES, test it, iron the bugs out and..."

    I think that could be a harder sell at corporate level especially when coupled with:

    "What are the risks?"

    "Well, RIM might not be around this time next year..."

    Then you have all those consumers wanting new devices, tying themselves into 24 month contracts around Christmas time when BB10 should be coming 3 months later.

    I wish RIM all the best with BB10, but it seems as if it is all chicken and egg at the moment.

    Just my two penneth worth!
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  23. BB10BelieveIt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    Quote Originally Posted by cgk View Post
    Heins is a solid corporate drone but nothing more - plus rightly or wrongly, Jobs being a sociopath was what made him what he was - Heins seems too rounded.
    Thor is a completely different beast than Steve Jobs was; Thor is an operations guy and Steve was a visionary. But IMHO you need several elements in the senior leadership of tech companies like RIM and Apple for success. RIM seemed to have a good mix before Don Morrison left in 2011. Don (operations) seemed to keep Mike L (Visionary) and Jim (Salesperson/strategist) feet on the ground in terms of executing on their vision. I read somewhere that he wasn't afraid to say no to those guys. His absence became obvious when RIM started having trouble executing (missing deadlines)

    Since Mike and Jim have stepped aside it has been easier to see some of the other big players at RIM, and the more I see, the more I like. The thing that struck me about that video of Gary above was just how energized this visionary leader was. Man, if he's still that excited and confident after all that RIM went through this year, that is telling you something. Also I disagree that Thor is "a solid corporate drone but nothing more". He arguably took on one of the highest profile, toughest jobs presently in the corporate world and did some pretty amazing things. This, after RIM's worst two years of executing ever, and with plummeting public perception he stabilized the company and gave them a chance to get BB10 out the door. The operational improvements that he made in the last 6 months resulted in a shocked Wall St last quarter where RIM, in the middle of a brutal transition to a completely new OS, and with devices now over a year old managed to ADD $100 million to their coffers.

    I do agree that Thor seems like a nice guy, which probably helps.
    Follow the breadcrumb trail of RIM's epic comeback with BB10BelieveIt on Twitter at @CrumbsObserver
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    Default Re: Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    ifan "No, there is only one steve jobs and no company can ever make a comeback without him". Paraphrase but I've read this many times.

    Reality, companys make turn-arounds all the time and the longer times goes on, more will happen, likely bigger than apples. RIM has never been close to as 'dead' as Apple was but you sure would think it if you read the news, and a lot of people must because thats what pretty much everyone I talk to thinks. RIM is on their way to 'coming-back', although I don't see it as a comeback. I see it as RIM going through a well-managed transition (I know, I know, management at RIM has been horrible, they should haven seen the market changing and ditched their cash-cow BBOS years ago and had BB10 magically appear, cause we all know every other company has done just that, and every other company has a future proof platform that isn't showing its age or stagnanting).

    As per my signature, its obvious I think RIM is the company to beat in the near future, and all the articles used to describe RIM can be rehashed and reguritated to describe the other companies much like they have been for RIM for the past ~2 yrs. Right now I can see RIM going into markets the competition has no chance at and I'm sure the competition wishes RIM would have just left the personal mobile consumer device market alone but with all devices converging it was inevitable, thats the only place to go.
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    Default Re: Poll - Can RIM pull off an Apple-style comeback without someone like Steve Jobs?

    Quote Originally Posted by FFR View Post
    Yes you can, and should.
    This is the primary reason rim finds itself in the position it is in today.

    Rim's collective brain-trust between 2007 and 2011
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