[kill_9]

More hybrid fanboy trolltalk. Don't you ever get tired of embarrassing yourself?

The only troll I see in this thread is Y-O-U. Have a pleasant week ahead praying at the alter of delusion. I want BlackBerry 10 to succeed but at every turn management stumbles like a drunken sailor on shore leave.

[kill_9]

Sorry i had to work today so couldn't respond earlier. Its all very individual. All I want is a few apps. Dont care about netflix viber skype. Thats just me. I want online banking, maps, and a few other things. So it is so up to the person using the device. I want to look up a good resturant, a good bar, or a nice hotel. Use internet to settle the argument about a sports stat. Thats just me so stop trying to fit everyone in your idea of a smartphone

I love BB ( i have owned 5) but if they dont get me what I want its very simple, I will find what works for me.

Right. I agree with your thoughts. All I need are productivity-centric applications which thanks to a few individual third-party developers has allowed me to use this tablet productively. I never said my view is the only right view about which applications are needed; I never said I wanted Netflix, Hulu, Skype et al.

[bungaboy]

The only troll I see in this thread is Y-O-U. Have a pleasant week ahead praying at the alter of delusion. I want BlackBerry 10 to succeed but at every turn management stumbles like a drunken sailor on shore leave.

Man. every post you make is trash talkin' on RIM. Doesn't matter what the topic.

You and a few others can always be depended upon to crank the hate no matter what the thread.

If it walks like a troll, acts like a troll, posts like a troll . . . . . ain't a freakin duck now is it?

If we see your posts improve i'll reconsider my opinion. Howszat?

[Rello]

I think the OP has presented some food for thought, and certainly with an extra 2-3 months there's more time for developers to present a few thousand more new apps. It's also more time to coordinate with the carriers and the MAJOR app publishers and cross the 't's and dot the 'i's.

I also somewhat agree with Rickroller's/HootyHoo's notion that BB10 just wouldn't be ready in time, with a little modification. I think RIM came to the conclusion that BB10 wouldn't be competitive in the form they could present it in in Q4. Pushing back to Q1 next year doesn't add much time, so presumably it's close in its current form, but I continue to believe that they chose a route that lets them launch a (slightly) more complete BB10 in a quarter where they don't have to fight iPhone and WP8 launches for market attention.

It's totally possible that ALL of these considerations have combined to force the delay.

This is pretty much how I feel. With the delays, its just hard for anyone to believe that's RIM has such a big masterplan, and I'm sure QNX could lead to many possibilities, but RIM just doesn't have the track record to convince people of the "big picture". Their marketshare here is approaching non existant so the battle to bring back people back to the platform is going to be crazy ridiculous. Not to say it can't be done, but when the majority of people believe that anything BB is a bad product, then u know the CMO probably has the hardest jobs on the planet right now lol. I hope Thor really capitalizes off this delay. He better deliver a near flawless experience because anything less and they might as well delay it again.

[Rickroller]

I think the OP has presented some food for thought, and certainly with an extra 2-3 months there's more time for developers to present a few thousand more new apps. It's also more time to coordinate with the carriers and the MAJOR app publishers and cross the 't's and dot the 'i's.

I also somewhat agree with Rickroller's/HootyHoo's notion that BB10 just wouldn't be ready in time, with a little modification. I think RIM came to the conclusion that BB10 wouldn't be competitive in the form they could present it in in Q4. Pushing back to Q1 next year doesn't add much time, so presumably it's close in its current form, but I continue to believe that they chose a route that lets them launch a (slightly) more complete BB10 in a quarter where they don't have to fight iPhone and WP8 launches for market attention.

It's totally possible that ALL of these considerations have combined to force the delay.

I agree that the delay gives them more time to make sure everything is falling into place. I'm sure Thor was presented with the option that they could make it happen by years end, however, it's going to be rushed. So we can rush it and gamble, or just take that little bit extra time and make it right.

I've been faced with similiar decisions, and most of the time I'd choose a delay as well. I just don't believe there was some plan from the beginning to make it this way, but rather that as the cards were being layed out, it became more obvious that although they could do it, they would be better off delaying.

[Rello]

I agree that the delay gives them more time to make sure everything is falling into place. I'm sure Thor was presented with the option that they could make it happen by years end, however, it's going to be rushed. So we can rush it and gamble, or just take that little bit extra time and make it right.

I've been faced with similiar decisions, and most of the time I'd choose a delay as well. I just don't believe there was some plan from the beginning to make it this way, but rather that as the cards were being layed out, it became more obvious that although they could do it, they would be better off delaying.

Yeah it is definitely better to delay. This has to be the last delay though lol. I can see it now that if the glaring holes in the software, people will ask what was the point in delaying it if it still was going to be buggy. The way I see it. Hopefully the delay is truly what Thor said it was for...to just tidy up everything. If one was to ask me if these devices will be released in January though, I lean more towards no and that's mostly because of their past lol. When has RIM every said something was coming in a certain quarter and it ended up being early in that quarter credit.

I'm gonna say the new CEO still needs to prove his track record. I'm still waiting for a .1 update to my playbook, and many others are still waiting on theme builder 7 lol.

[kevinnugent]

Yeah it is definitely better to delay. This has to be the last delay though lol. I can see it now that if the glaring holes in the software, people will ask what was the point in delaying it if it still was going to be buggy. The way I see it. Hopefully the delay is truly what Thor said it was for...to just tidy up everything. If one was to ask me if these devices will be released in January though, I lean more towards no and that's mostly because of their past lol. When has RIM every said something was coming in a certain quarter and it ended up being early in that quarter credit.

I'm gonna say the new CEO still needs to prove his track record. I'm still waiting for a .1 update to my playbook, and many others are still waiting on theme builder 7 lol.

I think RIM management lost a fair bit of credibility when after announcing the delay - due to not being 100% ready - the other's decided to spin what a great decision it was with "not getting lost in the Christmas shopping period noise" BS. C'mon guys, you can't have it both ways. Either it's not ready (the truth) or you're strategically withholding release to gain maximum impact (BS).

[Cesare21]

I personally like your thoughts and the way you have presented them. Very nice premise of the delay and some food for thought as well. Like @Thunderbuck said, it could be one of the reasons why BB10 got delayed, or was delayed a bit (I read around here the wait could be by 2 months, don't know if it was Thor or Kevin M).

About the apps, yes, people are insistent, fanatical, hyper (enter similar adjectives here....) and that's part of the game which RIM pioneered. I'm not a programmer myself but know about it a bit, I can roughly understand why QNX is being touted so much. If the effort to port apps from Android and iOS is minimal, then BB10 could possibly have the most titles sooner or later. Not to mention HTML5 and the rich UX from Cascades.

Now, let the trolls/BB fanatics spam you saying the title of the thread should be:
'Conspiracy theory of BB10 delay'.

[Thunderbuck]

I agree that the delay gives them more time to make sure everything is falling into place. I'm sure Thor was presented with the option that they could make it happen by years end, however, it's going to be rushed. So we can rush it and gamble, or just take that little bit extra time and make it right.

I've been faced with similiar decisions, and most of the time I'd choose a delay as well. I just don't believe there was some plan from the beginning to make it this way, but rather that as the cards were being layed out, it became more obvious that although they could do it, they would be better off delaying.

I know I've made comments elsewhere that suggest I thought this delay was in the cards all along, and that's not really what I had in mind.

More along the lines of some non-showstopper issues coming up, and presented with the choice between rushing to fix them or pushing the launch back to a quieter time, the RIM executive elected to take advantage of the delay. It's not impossible the new CMO had some influence on this, too.

[abwan11]

Serious question, why do u think they intended to release a "version" of OS2 on the first BB10 device. I don't think I can agree with that either. I feel like even when BB10 was supposed to be released at the top of 2012, it probably still looked something like the leaks of BB10 we've seen, just nowhere near as polished or feature rich as it will be upon launch. Dev alpha has been confirmed to be the device they initially planned to release, but I don't believe there's any evidence to support that they really decided to shrink the Tablet OS down to a smaller screen and call that BB10 on the first release.

What they are working on now is really BBx 2.0. Although I agree that it probably wasn't going to be a smaller screen playbook, but I would have to say that it also wasn't what we have seen in bb10 today. Things started to turn ugly for them both externally and internally. They reconsidered their direction, and in do so changed gears mid stream. They had hardware ready, meaning that software was near completion. Their ways of doing things had caught up to them, the playbook being the last example of this, and it was time to do it right or die. It's just my opinion, but I've been piecing things together that just didn't seem right, almost as if they were hidding something.

[Dapper37]

Man. every post you make is trash talkin' on RIM. Doesn't matter what the topic.

You and a few others can always be depended upon to crank the hate no matter what the thread.

If it walks like a troll, acts like a troll, posts like a troll . . . . . ain't a freakin duck now is it?

If we see your posts improve i'll reconsider my opinion. Howszat?

Spot on!...

[cynicalreader]

Nothing like a bit of revisionist history to liven things up.

Personally, I found this earlier thread:

http://forums.crackberry.com/news-ru...de-rim-732948/

to have quite a bit more meat and ideas to mull over.

[James Nieves]

Nothing like a bit of revisionist history to liven things up.

Personally, I found this earlier thread:

http://forums.crackberry.com/news-ru...de-rim-732948/

to have quite a bit more meat and ideas to mull over.

If it doesn't challenge you. It doesn't change you.

I'm glad RIM has chosen to forgo the easy route.
And develop their own platform in house. BlackBerry could have given up, when the Playbook "failed," but there is a master-plan. Heins didn't buy QNX or TAT. Heins simply looked at the state of RIM and said we have enough here to strike back. And despite all the confusion that's come out of this transition. RIM is making shifts, and they are navigating them with precision and speed. They are sharply pioneering their own way. Just like iOS and Android have done. 'Key Verticals'. Just wait. A lot of the support dying on the BBOS side is because their are those who develop for BBOS who see it's dying as BB10 rises. RIM is out right now to convince everyone it still has a future. Even if falling, 76 Million cannot be offloaded by the launch of BB10. There will be RIM faithful and we will bring BlackBerry back by ourselves if we must. Actions speak louder than words. BlackBerry right now is bleeding, not dying. There's a big difference. As the CMO said in response to being asked about how Blackberry advertising has failed in the past. BB10 isn't about the past. His focus is the successful launch of a new product/platform. Understanding why BBOS failed can only help BB10 succeed so much. The focus has to be forward. We can sit here and grumble over a product launch a year ago that was lackluster. Or we can respect that RIM is out to reinvent itself and that it's first show of that reinvention was something we know as Playbook.

We deem it another failure but it may very well turn into the linch pin that helps them explode. Everyone needs a base and what RIM is amalgimating with BB10 is a BOLD endeavor.
For that I wish them all the best, when I revist their history, I see them changing the world and the way we communicated at the start of an era. And now I see them struggling to bring us into the next era, against competition that has very effectively exploited the growing consumer need to be constantly simulated by media. RIM is out to put the media aside and refocus the devices purpose in the space; to say let's get productive once again. Technology is more than the depth-less lengths our phones apps can connect below a glass surface. But living the truly untethered yet completely connected life. Beyond the phone and directly to the people you interact with everyday

[Rello]

I think RIM management lost a fair bit of credibility when after announcing the delay - due to not being 100% ready - the other's decided to spin what a great decision it was with "not getting lost in the Christmas shopping period noise" BS. C'mon guys, you can't have it both ways. Either it's not ready (the truth) or you're strategically withholding release to gain maximum impact (BS).

Exactly. I mean it just sounds to me like the whole strategically waiting until Q1 to gain more exposure could be true, but its more to overshadow the fact that the software still wasn't ready and give people some sort of positive news. I mean, if Q1 was so strategic, the why was the original plan to release these devices at the end of 2012 before the announcement of the delays???

Thor isn't bad in my mind personally, he just still hasn't proven himself and to me, BB10 will be his first (and mayb only) chance to do this. If BB10 fails, it'll be interesting to see what happens to RIM...

[texazzpete]

Is there something I'm not getting?

I grew up with the canon that in the US, the Christmas season is actually the best for making loads of sales. Reading game magazines, the story was all about how consoles had to launch in time for Christmas sales to ramp up huge sales numbers.

I actually still believe that when I read about sales numbers of devices over the holiday periods.

So can someone explain to me how missing the holiday sales period can be spun as a positive for RIM? People talk about dodging the iPhone 5 launch frenzy, but all the information I know usually suggests that January spending is rather subdued thanks to the spending frenzy over the holidays.

Also...people are forgetting the following

1) CES in January 2013. All the top new phones will be announced. You can expect loads of ultra-specced Android handsets on show, running the latest quad core silicon from Nvidia, TI, Qualcomm etc.

2) Mobile World Congress in February 2013. More new upcoming phones that people will wanna wait for

Of course, Q1 2013 is when the next iPad should get revealed too...another weapon to drag folks into the Apple ecosystem.


So with all these, why's the belief that a Q1 2013 launch was a 'strategy' from RIM?

[cynicalreader]

Is there something I'm not getting?

I grew up with the canon that in the US, the Christmas season is actually the best for making loads of sales. Reading game magazines, the story was all about how consoles had to launch in time for Christmas sales to ramp up huge sales numbers.

I actually still believe that when I read about sales numbers of devices over the holiday periods.

My thinking too, so I actually looked up the numbers for last Christmas at
Smartphone Activations Hit Record Holiday Highs | Gadget Lab | Wired.com

"Smartphone activations hit record highs this Christmas, with combined Android and iOS activations topping the 6.8 million mark on Dec. 25 alone, according to mobile research firm Flurry Analytics. That�s an uptick of more than four times the average number of activations during the three weeks that preceded the holiday, and a 140 percent increase from last year�s Christmas Day activations.

And with such rapid hardware adoption, of course, comes a voracious appetite for apps. Google surpassed the 10 billion Android Market download mark earlier this month. An impressive milestone, though Apple did hit 15 billion downloads nearly six months ago.

App download rates will only skyrocket, if Christmas day numbers are any indicator. Flurry estimates more than 175 million Android and iOS apps were downloaded during the period from 11 am to 11 pm on Christmas day, with more than a quarter of a billion apps downloaded over the entire 24-hour period. That�s nearly twice the amount of apps downloaded on a single day than ever before."

Some have argued that smartphone sales just follow contract expirations. The numbers show otherwise. If you wanna sell smartphones, you need to get your stuff out before the holiday rush. Most ordinary folks are broke after Christmas. RIM delayed because it had to in order to get the product out the way it wanted to. It wasn't a strategy, it was by necessity. I am sure that even the marketing folks at RIM would have given their front teeth to have the BB10s out before Christmas, if they could have.

[cgk]

Exactly. I mean it just sounds to me like the whole strategically waiting until Q1 to gain more exposure could be true, but its more to overshadow the fact that the software still wasn't ready and give people some sort of positive news. I mean, if Q1 was so strategic, the why was the original plan to release these devices at the end of 2012 before the announcement of the delays???

The other reason it's nonsense is that it requires a CEO who actively lies to and misleads the market.

I'm all for having a debate but it's pointless have one around a revisionist history which does not stand upto any level of analysis. That remains me of how when WebOS was pulled, the faithful convinced themselves it was a secret marketing plan.

[brucep1]

Wasn't the reason for the delay supposed to be because of chips?

[hootyhoo]

Wasn't the reason for the delay supposed to be because of chips?

It depends on which delay you're asking about.

[Rello]

My thinking too, so I actually looked up the numbers for last Christmas at
Smartphone Activations Hit Record Holiday Highs | Gadget Lab | Wired.com

"Smartphone activations hit record highs this Christmas, with combined Android and iOS activations topping the 6.8 million mark on Dec. 25 alone, according to mobile research firm Flurry Analytics. That’s an uptick of more than four times the average number of activations during the three weeks that preceded the holiday, and a 140 percent increase from last year’s Christmas Day activations.

And with such rapid hardware adoption, of course, comes a voracious appetite for apps. Google surpassed the 10 billion Android Market download mark earlier this month. An impressive milestone, though Apple did hit 15 billion downloads nearly six months ago.

App download rates will only skyrocket, if Christmas day numbers are any indicator. Flurry estimates more than 175 million Android and iOS apps were downloaded during the period from 11 am to 11 pm on Christmas day, with more than a quarter of a billion apps downloaded over the entire 24-hour period. That’s nearly twice the amount of apps downloaded on a single day than ever before."

Some have argued that smartphone sales just follow contract expirations. The numbers show otherwise. If you wanna sell smartphones, you need to get your stuff out before the holiday rush. Most ordinary folks are broke after Christmas. RIM delayed because it had to in order to get the product out the way it wanted to. It wasn't a strategy, it was by necessity. I am sure that even the marketing folks at RIM would have given their front teeth to have the BB10s out before Christmas, if they could have.

It's exactly what some people refuse to believe. Don't get me wrong, to an extent it is true that people's contracts are up at all times of the year so there are always potential buyers, but like u said, people are broke after Christmas...seven if people like the devices, I suspect there will be a large group of people who simply won't be able to upgrade. By the time they are able, u will have shows like CES unveiling more top notch devices that may very well steal spotlight away from RIM. The way I see it, it's not good either way u look at it for RIM. They are letting their competition gain more of a lead and and missing a huge surge in potential buyers from the holiday season. This is exactly why I said in my previous post that they absolutely better take every single advantage of this delay as possible. Everyone knows the software isn't ready so if it's still not by Q1, don't bother to release it...delay it again

The other reason it's nonsense is that it requires a CEO who actively lies to and misleads the market.

I'm all for having a debate but it's pointless have one around a revisionist history which does not stand upto any level of analysis. That remains me of how when WebOS was pulled, the faithful convinced themselves it was a secret marketing plan.

Lol I love my BB I refuse to be as blind as some of the fanbois on this site (not talking to anyone specifically). To be completely honest, it's almost like RIM hasn't been trying since 2008. I had my curve 8900 for wayyyyy too long because no device was a significant upgrade. The 9700 was nice but my 8900 was almost the same device. I really do like my 9900 but even that wasn't enough to make me sign another 2 year agreement for one. I bought mine for around $450 off contract. I just don't think it should've taken until late 2011 for RIM's device to finally break the 1Ghz barrier. Then we get a glimpse of the PlayBook and it's specs and I start thinking "here we go, a true powerhouse from RIM finally", only to be disappointed by the many bugs with the device upon release. RIM has sooooo much potential but people on this site get upset at those who can't see it when that's completely understandable. RIM hasn't walked the walk in years and people can keep telling my how great BB10 will be and how QNX will lead to greater "verticles" but I'm at the point now where RIM needs to stop talking and show me why I should buy their device again.

[barnyr]

The other reason it's nonsense is that it requires a CEO who actively lies to and misleads the market.

I'm all for having a debate but it's pointless have one around a revisionist history which does not stand upto any level of analysis. That remains me of how when WebOS was pulled, the faithful convinced themselves it was a secret marketing plan.

From what I've read on the crackberry forums, it appears that around 90% of the posters believe RIM and all RIM employees actively lie to and mislead the market at every turn. I don't know why anyone would choose this statement to believe.

[shingi_70]

Question. Isn't the convergance of mobile computing pretty much what microsoft is doing with window 8 and windows phone 8.






Still find it weird an Os that hasn't launched yet has more big name support than the playbook.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2

[howarmat]

Question. Isn't the convergance of mobile computing pretty much what microsoft is doing with window 8 and windows phone 8.

Click to view quoted image

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Still find it weird an Os that hasn't launched yet has more big name support than the playbook.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2

correct me if i am wrong but doesnt MS have all dev tools released and not beta or incomplete status?

[mikeo007]

correct me if i am wrong but doesnt MS have all dev tools released and not beta or incomplete status?

Yup, for everything except Windows Phone 8. Plus, Microsoft's dev tools are vastly superior to ANYTHING else out there by a wide margin.