[jaconat]

I'm a complete noob to the blackberry and bought my first (an 8520) a week ago. So far I am *completely* disappointed with the experience and thought I would explain why.

I am unsure why I have to purchase the Blackberry Internet Service (at an additional �5/mth) to run almost all of the network enabled apps when I am sitting next to my wireless router and the BB has wifi? Is this not just a money making scam? What if my provider decides to up this to �10/mth? I am left with a very fancy phone but cannot access most of it's functionality.

I tried to update the os to v5 before purchasing BIS. This proved virtually impossible. After 3 hours of trying, downloading BBSAK and following numerous instructions on forums like this I gave up and subscribed to BIS.

Why after so many generations of BB is it still so temperamental connecting to wifi? My 8520 will drop connection for no obvious reason (even when I am sitting next to the router) and won't connect without a battery pull. This really is unacceptable. You only have to google bb wifi connection problems to see how many people struggle/cannot connect their bb. (My son's iPhone connects first time every time & never drops a connection)

The final straw came this evening when I updated my os to v5 to find that all my apps have been removed. Not hidden or moved to a different folder but deleted. The BB app world icon disappearing is a known bug and BB have a KB article. To get it back you have to back everything up, erase everything then perform a restore. This still did not restore all my apps and I have to download them all again, including App World. This is unacceptable.

Now I know there will be hundreds of you jumping up and down saying I'm wrong and that the BB is fantastic (the design & build quality is) and preparing to shoot everything I've said into flames. However, this is my experience and I have been frustrated by no end of problems and hurdles. If I had not been tied into a contract I would be asking for a refund. I am an above average ability user (I have an honors degree in computer systems) and have spent too many hours in front of my pc this week trying to sort my BB.

Your comments are most welcome. Let the flaming begin....

[Laura Knotek]

Perhaps, carrier plans are different in the US and UK.

Here in the US, most carriers require data plans for all smartphones, whether BlackBerry, iPhone, Android, etc. The plans tend to be the same price for any smartphone.

For instance, one must pay for a data plan on VZW for any smartphone. It costs $30/month, whether he has a Droid X, BlackBerry 9650, or Palm Pre Plus.

AT&T and Sprint are similar.

T-Mobile is the only carrier that allows one to use a smartphone without a data plan, provided the phone was purchased at full retail or second-hand (eBay, Craigslist, etc.).

[jeffh]

I'm sorry for your frustration and difficulties. As you have discovered, experience, competence and expertise on non-BlackBerry devices doesn't translate into immediate success with a new BlackBerry. In fact, it may be worse than no experience at all, because your expectation of success is higher but unfounded. BlackBerry devices are simply different. What is intuitively obvious to someone who has used BlackBerry devices for weeks or months may be completely opaque to some who lacks time on a BlackBerry. That's one reason why I never recommend new users attempt to upgrade their OS until their initial 30-day return period has expired. After 30 days experience, you are much more likely to be successful, and if you have a problem (and we all sometimes do), you are much more likely to be able to solve it.

Hang in there. I think you will find the benefits of a BlackBerry are worth the effort of learning it. If you don't, then perhaps another device is better suited to your needs. There's nothing wrong with that, either.

[FF22]

Sorry about your bad experiences. There was a way to restore the OLDER version of app world which did not require the wipe/restore of the OS and I think some found that if they did that, they could actually restore the newer version after.

If Crackberry/mobihand allow sales over there - it is much easier to restore purchased apps. And, yes, unfortunately, doing an OS upgrade generally blows stuff, particularly registration numbers.

[dodger_moore]

Hi Jaconat

I've got a 9700 and have owned a 8250. I live in the UK and am on O2. I'll try and help with your main points:

1. Paying for BIS. �5 a month - why wouldn't you? Surely you want to get your emails on the go and use data when mobile? What carrier are you with?

2. Upgrade OS 5, lose everything. Sadly that's how it is - pretty sure it says in the manual somewhere about backing up your device. If you do that, no problem.

3. Hidden Appworld icon. Yep this is a pain. But you only need to download the Appworld app again, then restart. No reason why you'd loose your other Apps.
4. WiFi troubles - this won't help you but I've not experienced that problem myself. With neither the 8520 or 9700. If I've ever had to force a connection, I just go into set up. Once a wifi profile is saved, the BB will automatically log onto it when in range.

This probs may not have told you anything you don't know but like others have said, BB's are different. I got off on the wrong foot with my first one, but it soon became completely instinctive and eveything else felt different afterwards.

Hope you get it sorted, the 8520 is a good phone. Otherwise, swap for a different one - I suggest a �30 upgrade to the 9700.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[jaconat]

JeffH wrote

I'm sorry for your frustration and difficulties. As you have discovered, experience, competence and expertise on non-BlackBerry devices doesn't translate into immediate success with a new BlackBerry. In fact, it may be worse than no experience at all, because your expectation of success is higher but unfounded. BlackBerry devices are simply different. What is intuitively obvious to someone who has used BlackBerry devices for weeks or months may be completely opaque to some who lacks time on a BlackBerry.

This I am quickly discovering - but it shouldn't be! Surely with the talent & quality of programmers out there (you only have to look at the quality and ingenuity of some of the 3rd party apps out there), RIM could *at least* ensure you can upgrade the os without losing a fundamental app like App World. Was this not tested by RIM? If they are not able to recognise/fix bugs as obvious as this what else are they missing?

dodger_moore wrote

Hidden Appworld icon. Yep this is a pain. But you only need to download the Appworld app again, then restart.

That's not the point...

Paying for BIS. �5 a month - why wouldn't you? Surely you want to get your emails on the go and use data when mobile? What carrier are you with?

I have wifi at home & work. I don't need push emails. Mobile browsing is nice to have but after the initial excitement will probably get used rarely. Data I can pay for as and when I want it. What I did want was a quality phone with keyboard (no slidey rubbish) where I can download some useful apps that would work over wifi.

Anyway today is a new day and I'm sticking with the 8520. BB's can't be as bad as my last week's experiences have shown otherwise they would not be as successful as they are. I'm paying for BIS now so have the functionality that I want. I just hope the handset proves to be as robust as my old nokia.

OK so no more moans from today

[ST79]

Don't hesitate to post a thread if you have questions/doubts... We all are here to help you out...

If you have some free time, give the blackberry 101 lecture series a go.. Its a good start. You cam find it under the 'blackberry help' tab...

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[dodger_moore]

Anyway today is a new day and I'm sticking with the 8520. BB's can't be as bad as my last week's experiences have shown otherwise they would not be as successful as they are. I'm paying for BIS now so have the functionality that I want. I just hope the handset proves to be as robust as my old nokia.

OK so no more moans from today

Fair do's, I think you're on the right track now with your new presumption that it's been a case of operator error.

Be interesting to see where you are a year down the line re: not wanting to use the internet on the go...

Best of luck

Dom

[jaconat]

Don't hesitate to post a thread if you have questions/doubts... We all are here to help you out...

I have and received some very helpful info, although my wifi problem post received no replies!! Still working on that one.

I think you're on the right track now with your new presumption that it's been a case of operator error.

Wooooh, hang on a sec. Operator error.... OS upgrade deletes icons is a known BB bug. Temperamental wifi which connects then doesn't. I would say that was not operator error but handset/RIM error. The jury is still out for me on the device but we'll see one year on as you suggest & let's hope the pro's far outweigh the con's. Here's hoping.

EDIT: BTW dodger_more - got lost out and about today so used google maps. I *MIGHT* have just used mobile internet to check where I was going.

[jeffh]

... Surely with the talent & quality of programmers out there (you only have to look at the quality and ingenuity of some of the 3rd party apps out there), RIM could *at least* ensure you can upgrade the os without losing a fundamental app like App World. Was this not tested by RIM? If they are not able to recognise/fix bugs as obvious as this what else are they missing?

Carriers release an OS version, not RIM. Verizon recently released a version of OS 5 for the 9630 that rendered inoperative a significant number of the phones on which it was installed. Verizon had to replace the phones. They either did not test the OS sufficiently, or they made a marketing decision to release the product before it was ready because they were introducing a new feature and wanted to get it on the market. Starting with the Storm and continuing with the Tour, OS quality has been and continues to be a serious problem.

[elvin1983]

One thing that I want to point out about the OS upgrade issue you talk about is that if you do an OS upgrade thru the Deskto Manager software, your 3rd party apps will be transferred onto the new os after it's loaded onto your device. I don't have any experience wiping my device and loading with BBSAK (I figure why mess with something when DM has been doing this process just fine for a long time), but I know that if you wipe your device, then load a new OS onto it, you will loose EVERYTHING. BBSAK isn't an RIM approved program, so you use it at your own risk.

I haven't heard about the WiFi problem, have you thought to take your device back to the carrier and get a warranty replacement? There's a chance that the WiFi radio could be defective.

We're here to help you out, if you have any questions be sure to ask!

[Xopher]

One of the things you have to remember is that BlackBerry devices have been built on security. Part of the reason you have to log onto a BIS/BES account is to get service books that turn on/off permissions. Some people report not having the web browser icon on their screen until they register a BIS account and get their service books. Features like web browsing, e-mail, and BBM all need service books to work properly. Even if you are doing everything over wifi, you still need that initial registration.

Part of the Desktop Manager OS update process is to back up and restore your applications and data. You have to let the entire process complete (including restore). One of the main things that happens is during the first initial load of a new OS, it can take up to 15 minutes for it to register the .cod files. It may seem like it stopped working, but you just have to be patient. If you stop it before it is done, then there is no way to continue from where you left off. This can mean the backed up apps won't have a chance to load back on.

Anytime you load an OS onto your phone, DM will wipe the device clean - giving you a fresh OS. Its backup and restore process will virtually make it so that everything is right where it was before you updated. It's also a good idea to make backups ahead of time (including backing up apps via BBSAK).

I can't answer the wifi connection problems. I haven't seen any wifi problems, myself.

[john_v]

Don't hesitate to post a thread if you have questions/doubts... We all are here to help you out...

If you have some free time, give the blackberry 101 lecture series a go.. Its a good start. You cam find it under the 'blackberry help' tab...

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Definitely go through the BB101 series...you won't be able to read them all at once but can pick out the ones you need help with. Then come back and learn more as time permits.

Welcome to the BB club!

[biznatch]

Here in Canada, with I'm pretty sure any provider that offers BB's you don't have to purchase a data plan with your BB. There are plans that just include voice+txt with no email or data (cheapest), that include voice+txt+email but no data (mid-range), or that include everything (voice+txt+email+data; most expensive). And then for all of those options you can still use wifi to access your email+data for free.

[dodger_moore]

Here in Canada, with I'm pretty sure any provider that offers BB's you don't have to purchase a data plan with your BB. There are plans that just include voice+txt with no email or data (cheapest), that include voice+txt+email but no data (mid-range), or that include everything (voice+txt+email+data; most expensive). And then for all of those options you can still use wifi to access your email+data for free.

Actually now you say that, it's the same in the UK. I had an older 8520 for a while without a contract at all and it was still picking up thw wifi signal and delivering emails.

Ive never experienced or heard of any wifi connection issues, but if you search on google you can prettyy much find someone somewhere experiencing any k d of problem you can imagine.

Apols if there are typos in this post, im using an ipad and it is quite an effort.