[app_Developer]

I completely agree. I've posted a similar sentiment in the past. It was a lengthy post, but what it boiled down to was that If I ran a company I'd rather listen to my critics than my fanboys.

On that point, I'm glad that Chen is staying in California. I think that gives him a perspective that might have been lost in the Waterloo area.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

On that point, I'm glad that Chen is staying in California. I think that gives him a perspective that might have been lost in the Waterloo area.

Agree.... I have to wonder if Waterloo is so isolated from the rest of the world, or is there something in the water????


The PlayBook was suppose to be a "test bed" for the BlackBerry, but yet they made all the same mistakes with the Z10 that cause the PlayBook to fail. They learned NOTHING from the PlayBook....

After two more years, they still didn't have even just the top 10 big apps.
They still expected premium prices even though the Z10 did not have premium hardware or an ecosystem.
They still left out many features that users have come to expect from current smartphones.


Really think that BlackBerry needs to give every employee both an iPhone and a Galaxy Phone and require them to use them. Might help them to understand where the market is today.

[southlander]

I completely agree. I've posted a similar sentiment in the past. It was a lengthy post, but what it boiled down to was that If I ran a company I'd rather listen to my critics than my fanboys.

They are not "listening" to anyone. They are looking at the sales. The sales tell the story. Companies look at sales. If you all are confusing fanboys with folks that are inside BlackBerry, running the business, who are saying "everything is fine" then I agree. But I do not agree that anyone that is spending money to help BlackBerry stay afloat is also "leading to their death", or whatever.

If someone buys a Q10 and they keep it then that helps BB (unless it is sold at a loss) -- whether or not they go on to rant and rave and defend. If they buy it and are disappointed and return it, that eats into the sales -- accumulates and BB takes notice on the return rates. If they come on here and say it's great, or it sucks, that does not matter one iota except to those here that think BB is running the company by following silly online message boards.

This all reminds of the threads on here that are titled: "BlackBerry PLEASE READ -- I hope you are listening!!!!". Guess what folks -- they are not making decisions based on your posts here.

Other than I do believe the leaks are followed closely by some folks at BB because why leak if not to gain some free testing. Yeah there are exceptions to what I am saying.

[kevinnugent]

They are not "listening" to anyone. They are looking at the sales. The sales tell the story. Companies look at sales. If you all are confusing fanboys with folks that are inside BlackBerry, running the business, who are saying "everything is fine" then I agree. But I do not agree that anyone that is spending money to help BlackBerry stay afloat is also "leading to their death", or whatever.

If someone buys a Q10 and they keep it then that helps BB (unless it is sold at a loss) -- whether or not they go on to rant and rave and defend. If they buy it and are disappointed and return it, that eats into the sales -- accumulates and BB takes notice on the return rates. If they come on here and say it's great, or it sucks, that does not matter one iota except to those here that think BB is running the company by following silly online message boards.

This all reminds of the threads on there are titled: "BlackBerry PLEASE READ -- I hope you are listening!!!!". Guess what folks -- they are not making decisions based on your posts here.

Other than I do believe the leaks are followed closely by some folks at BB because why leak if not to gain some free testing. Yeah there are exceptions to what I am saying.

I don't necessarily disagree with you south but when has Blackberry ever taken notice of returns feedback for example and changed a model midstream? 10.2 was supposed to fix everything wasn't it, and yet I hear it's pretty sub par.

[southlander]

Really think that BlackBerry needs to give every employee both an iPhone and a Galaxy Phone and require them to use them. Might help them to understand where the market is today.

T Heins is said to use an Android phone as well. Did that help any? BlackBerry has said publicly they test the competitions' devices. In fact to make x platform BBM that have to use those devices. In fact one of the main complaints on here is that BB10 and the Z10 were nothing more that attempts to "clone" the competition. Leaving out BIS, etc.

[southlander]

I don't necessarily disagree with you south but when has Blackberry ever taken notice of returns feedback for example and changed a model midstream? 10.2 was supposed to fix everything wasn't it, and yet I hear it's pretty sub par.

There is a very simple explanation for all this that has actually been said over and over and over on here. Fanboys are not the issue. I am one and I have spent probably $4000 on BB products since 2009. To say folks like me are causing the death of BB is a borderline insult.

The truth? The one that's repeated many times on here?

BlackBerry lacks the talent (and now also the resources) to execute. On hardware. On software. They can't get it done.

[kevinnugent]

There is a very simple explanation for all this that has actually been said over and over and over on here. Fanboys are not the issue. I am one and I have spent probably $4000 on BB products since 2009. To say folks like me are causing the death of BB is a borderline insult.

The truth? The one that's repeated many times on here?

BlackBerry lacks the talent (and now also the resources) to execute. On hardware. On software. They can't get it done.

But see, you aren't a true believer if you are critical of the company. There's people here who I call Flying Monkeys who defend Blackberry to the hilt on every issue. For them, Blackberry is beyond reproach. If a company listened to them it would be dead. That's the fear.

[southlander]

But see, you aren't a true believer if you are critical of the company. There's people here who I call Flying Monkeys who defend Blackberry to the hilt on every issue. For them, Blackberry is beyond reproach. If a company listened to them it would be dead. That's the fear.

Sorry but who BlackBerry chooses to listen to is still a BlackBerry problem. Anyway you slice it.

I help run a business. If our business got into trouble it would be up to our management to "ignore" when the remaining fanatical customer base says "don't change a thing you guys are AWESOME". We would be responsible to look at that and think hey we still have MAJOR issues even though 10% of our customers are still perfectly satisfied.



Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1767

[southlander]

But see, you aren't a true believer if you are critical of the company. There's people here who I call Flying Monkeys who defend Blackberry to the hilt on every issue. For them, Blackberry is beyond reproach. If a company listened to them it would be dead. That's the fear.

You really think someone high up in a decision making role at BlackBerry is taking those embarrassing rants to heart? Really?

Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1767

[darkehawke]

They are not "listening" to anyone. They are looking at the sales. The sales tell the story. Companies look at sales. If you all are confusing fanboys with folks that are inside BlackBerry, running the business, who are saying "everything is fine" then I agree. But I do not agree that anyone that is spending money to help BlackBerry stay afloat is also "leading to their death", or whatever.

If someone buys a Q10 and they keep it then that helps BB (unless it is sold at a loss) -- whether or not they go on to rant and rave and defend. If they buy it and are disappointed and return it, that eats into the sales -- accumulates and BB takes notice on the return rates. If they come on here and say it's great, or it sucks, that does not matter one iota except to those here that think BB is running the company by following silly online message boards.

This all reminds of the threads on here that are titled: "BlackBerry PLEASE READ -- I hope you are listening!!!!". Guess what folks -- they are not making decisions based on your posts here.

Other than I do believe the leaks are followed closely by some folks at BB because why leak if not to gain some free testing. Yeah there are exceptions to what I am saying.

So they pulled the idea of pinning the Android menu at the bottom out of things air did they? What about changing the squircle?
If you think that they aren't listening to anyone you are deluding yourself. All companies listen to someone .

FYI those examples I listed came from a focus group, so they are listening to someone...

Posted via CB10

[kevinnugent]

You really think someone high up in a decision making role at BlackBerry is taking those embarrassing rants to heart? Really?

Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1767

My experience is normally c level folks are fed feedback by people who don't want to displease them. Very rare for a CEO to step outside the bubble and listen to normal customers. So rare they made a reality tv program about ceo's doing just that.

[southlander]

So they pulled the idea of pinning the Android menu at the bottom out of things air did they? What about changing the squircle?
If you think that they aren't listening to anyone you are deluding yourself. All companies listen to someone .

FYI those examples I listed came from a focus group, so they are listening to someone...

Posted via CB10

So now Android pinning and a squircle are key strategic errors?

I didn't mean to say they are not listening to anyone. In fact if anyone has their ear in my experience it's the larger corporate accounts that spend big $$$. Which when you are trying to keep pace with the consumer smartphone race IS a problem. Designing for enterprise means slowly building out things securely. Long product cycles. Trim out features. Etc.

Probably their best course of action would have been a consumer line of additional BlackBerry devices running android. With cutting edge hardware and a faster product cycle. While keeping the pure BlackBerry line for government and large companies that need end to end hardware and software security.

But I still contend that the posts on here are basically irrelevant. As are ones on Facebook or anywhere else folks go to embarrass their selves.

Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1767

[darkehawke]

So now Android pinning and a squircle are key strategic errors?

I didn't mean to say they are not listening to anyone. In fact if anyone has their ear in my experience it's the larger corporate accounts that spend big $$$. Which when you are trying to keep pace with the consumer smartphone race IS a problem. Designing for enterprise means slowly building out things securely. Long product cycles. Trim out features. Etc.

Probably their best course of action would have been a consumer line of additional BlackBerry devices running android. With cutting edge hardware and a faster product cycle. While keeping the pure BlackBerry line for government and large companies that need end to end hardware and software security.

But I still contend that the posts on here are basically irrelevant. As are ones on Facebook or anywhere else folks go to embarrass their selves.

Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1767

Again. I never stated it was just posts here...

Posted via CB10

[southlander]

Again. I never stated it was just posts here...

Posted via CB10

Are they reading Facebook and Twitter?

Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1767

[southlander]

Look. It's fine. Let's just agree to disagree. No big one.

Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1767

[jhimmel]

I completely agree. I've posted a similar sentiment in the past. It was a lengthy post, but what it boiled down to was that If I ran a company I'd rather listen to my critics than my fanboys.

Exactly. That is why you can't put any of the blame on so called "fanboys". Every platform has its share of fanboys. I'd go as far as to say that BB is not even the worst in this regard. If BB is steering the company wrong because they are doing it based on what some minority of fanboys say and do, then that is 100% on BB. Obviously, a smart company would be trying to address those that do NOT find their product particularly compelling instead of sitting there having a love-fest with those who will stick by you no matter what - even as their numbers dwindle. Nope - to blame the fanboy is silly and naive. The company should be MUCH smarter then that - the fault lies solely with them. There will always be fanboys. The company needs to know how to find and deal with the realities of their market.

[southlander]

Exactly. That is why you can't put any of the blame on so called "fanboys". Every platform has its share of fanboys. I'd go as far as to say that BB is not even the worst in this regard. If BB is steering the company wrong because they are doing it based on what some minority of fanboys say and do, then that is 100% on BB. Obviously, a smart company would be trying to address those that do NOT find their product particularly compelling instead of sitting there having a love-fest with those who will stick by you no matter what - even as their numbers dwindle. Nope - to blame the fanboy is silly and naive. The company should be MUCH smarter then that - the fault lies solely with them. There will always be fanboys. The company needs to know how to find and deal with the realities of their market.

I agree with YOU but I think you quoted a poster that has a somewhat differing stance. Not sure about that though.

Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1767

[Toodeurep]

My experience is normally c level folks are fed feedback by people who don't want to displease them. Very rare for a CEO to step outside the bubble and listen to normal customers. So rare they made a reality tv program about ceo's doing just that.

But the really good ones have shown just how powerful listening is. The guy at Chrysler comes across as then antitheses to the traditional C level guy. He seems to despise **** kissers and closed off thinkers. I am sure Sergio Marchionne is no angel but if you judge a guy on what he gets done...

[msoler29]

NSA spied on and virus prone Nexus compared to a BlackBerry? uhhmmm let me think....

Posted via my BlackBerry Z30.

Dude the Nexus 5 kills the no app having Blackberry. Stop being a fan boy and give credit where it is due.

Sent from my One S using CB Forums mobile app

[darkehawke]

Look. It's fine. Let's just agree to disagree. No big one.

Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1767

Fair enough we'll leave it at that. Neither of us have any definitive proof to back up our opinions

Posted via CB10

[darkehawke]

Exactly. That is why you can't put any of the blame on so called "fanboys". Every platform has its share of fanboys. I'd go as far as to say that BB is not even the worst in this regard. If BB is steering the company wrong because they are doing it based on what some minority of fanboys say and do, then that is 100% on BB. Obviously, a smart company would be trying to address those that do NOT find their product particularly compelling instead of sitting there having a love-fest with those who will stick by you no matter what - even as their numbers dwindle. Nope - to blame the fanboy is silly and naive. The company should be MUCH smarter then that - the fault lies solely with them. There will always be fanboys. The company needs to know how to find and deal with the realities of their market.

I disagree. The fault lies with both. One may be more than the other and we can debate all they long about who is more to blame. Still this is a discussion on opinions and I feel that we have done this particular topic as far as can go.
Please see this post as me offering my view and not me saying that your view is wrong.

Posted via CB10

[canuckvoip]

Dude the Nexus 5 kills the no app having Blackberry. Stop being a fan boy and give credit where it is due.

Sent from my One S using CB Forums mobile app

Dude... your selfie would look better taken from a Z10 or Z30 with Time shift.
Oh, and dude... did you find your car?

[HabsFan9860]

I look at it this way, generally the best things are in smaller numbers...in any market...the ok, or good enough stuff (oddly filled with gimmicks to wow people as opposed to provide a quality experience)...best cars, smaller market share...best houses/buildings, smaller maker share...best electronics, smaller market share...best clothing, smaller market share......just because it's made in quantity, doesn't mean it is also made with quality...that costs more to make...consumers these days wouldn't know quality if it jumped up and bit them in the ***...

Posted by my awesome Z10 running 10.2

[MarsupilamiX]

I look at it this way, generally the best things are in smaller numbers...in any market...the ok, or good enough stuff (oddly filled with gimmicks to wow people as opposed to provide a quality experience)...best cars, smaller market share...best houses/buildings, smaller maker share...best electronics, smaller market share...best clothing, smaller market share......just because it's made in quantity, doesn't mean it is also made with quality...that costs more to make...consumers these days wouldn't know quality if it jumped up and bit them in the ***...

Posted by my awesome Z10 running 10.2

Your thesis would work, if every single 5+ inch touchscreen flagship wouldn't use far better specs than the Z30.
It's like saying the paintjob on the Lada looks better than on a Volkswagen, and that's why it's the better car...

Posted via CB10