[birdman_38]

With all the talk of a different possibilities for BlackBerry there's one that hasn't specifically been mentioned yet. What if a buyer would scrap BlackBerry 10 OS and BES 10, but preserve legacy OS + BES and BIS? There's still a huge user base out there with a major role for BBOS in business and government. Heck, maybe even a BBOS 8 would be released down the line.

[gnirkatto]

unrealistic, but I could live with that.

[Ben1232]

I really like BIS so I'm certain it would be gone for good.

Posted via my CB Q10

[Acidwire]

also to jump in, would anyone here besides belfastdispatcher continue to buy from this new company and revert from bb10 back to a legacy device when their contract is up?

personally i would jump ship as im already rocking a dinosaur and jealous of what bb10, android and ios can do that i cant

[3Dee]

I guess the reality might well be that BIS and BES survive but used by a different OS entirely. I can't see the BBOS having a long life span as vessels for the traditional BB advantages.

Sent from my HTC One using CB Forums mobile app

[MarsupilamiX]

With all the talk of a different possibilities for BlackBerry there's one that hasn't specifically been mentioned yet. What if a buyer would scrap BlackBerry 10 OS and BES 10, but preserve legacy OS + BES and BIS? There's still a huge user base out there with a major role for BBOS in business and government. Heck, maybe even a BBOS 8 would be released down the line.

This train of thought alone, is a sign of pure desperation and the complete inability to understand the structure of the cell phone market right now.

Wow, just wow...

This will never happen, no potential buyer would be interested in BBOS to actually release new handsets with it.
Android and WP8 are far better low-cost options.
Apart from the already existing Operating Systems that are successfully sold today (no, BBOS doesn't qualify for successful at this point in time), we have things like Tizen and the Firefox OS to see the light of the day.

If, for example LG gets desperate and thinks it needs another OS, they already have WebOs as a Plan B option.

BES isn't the only MDM solution out there, and is pretty much completely useless in a BYOD environment.
The BYOD trend was a detrimental force, further collapsings BBOS marketshare in the enterprise sector.
This is the case because an enterprise is made up of individual users and consumers.
And they vastly prefer iOS and Android.

The thought of a 3rd party picking up BBOS to further develop and employ it in handsets is just a delusion...

Posted via CB10

[gnirkatto]

also to jump in, would anyone here besides belfastdispatcher continue to buy from this new company and revert from bb10 back to a legacy device when their contract is up?

personally i would jump ship as im already rocking a dinosaur and jealous of what bb10, android and ios can do that i cant

If they make me a slider with a nice keyboard and a large screen, and some slight improvements in BBOS, this could potentially drag me over back to BBOS. Always providing there are no other more modern options.

[bobauckland]

This train of thought alone, is a sign of pure desperation and the complete inability to understand the structure of the cell phone market right now.

Wow, just wow...

This will never happen, no potential buyer would be interested in BBOS to actually release new handsets with it.
Android and WP8 are far better low-cost options.
Apart from the already existing Operating Systems that are successfully sold today (no, BBOS doesn't qualify for successful at this point in time), we have things like Tizen and the Firefox OS to see the light of the day.

If, for example LG gets desperate and thinks it needs another OS, they already have WebOs as a Plan B option.

BES isn't the only MDM solution out there, and is pretty much completely useless in a BYOD environment.
The BYOD trend was a detrimental force, further collapsings BBOS marketshare in the enterprise sector.
This is the case because an enterprise is made up of individual users and consumers.
And they vastly prefer iOS and Android.

The thought of a 3rd party picking up BBOS to further develop and employ it in handsets is just a delusion...

Posted via CB10

Dear goodness.
Do you ever get tired of telling people they're morons because they don't share your opinion?
It's just unbelievable how many people seem to think there's no other view but their own.

To the OP, I don't know if it's possible, but I'd deffo hop on that bandwagon is there was legacy plus better hardware.

[birdman_38]

I'm fully aware of how the industry operates, as I worked in it and studied it the past 4 years. There's no need for insults. Perhaps I wasn't making myself clear in my original post.

Simply put, if a potential buyer purchases BlackBerry and is motivated by the enterprise side of things, wouldn't existing legacy OS be part of that package? That company could conclude it's more lucrative to sustain legacy because there's still an appetite for it. Even BlackBerry as it exists today admits that by releasing the 9720. BB10 could lose out in the equation due to slow adoption, should the new owners choose to phase out the consumer side and only cater to enterprise.

[WES51]

Perhaps Blackberry should finally ask it's core customer base, business people, what they want.

I always believed that Blackberry was designed for business productivity and gained broad success when it was discovered and adopted by the masses.

But things changed and although most people want a toy now, business still demands productivity.

Trying to appeal to a few gaming kids, most of who wouldn't buy Blackberry anyways is the present loosing strategy of OS10.

[CHIP72]

If they make me a slider with a nice keyboard and a large screen, and some slight improvements in BBOS, this could potentially drag me over back to BBOS. Always providing there are no other more modern options.

Uh, Blackberry already did this three years ago with the Blackberry Torch. The Torch did not succeed against the iPhone 4 or the various Android smartphones that hit the market in the same time frame.

(NOTE: I'm addressing the economic viability of such an idea, not whether or not you (gnirkatto) would be interested in such a device. Blackberry or its successor company almost definitely wouldn't release a device like you described because that effort has already occurred and the device did not achieve serious market traction.)

[fearmantis]

Lol.

BB Z10 Rocks!

[MarsupilamiX]

Dear goodness.
Do you ever get tired of telling people they're morons because they don't share your opinion?
It's just unbelievable how many people seem to think there's no other view but their own.

To the OP, I don't know if it's possible, but I'd deffo hop on that bandwagon is there was legacy plus better hardware.

I never called the OP a moron.
I said that the thought of a company buying parts of BlackBerry for BBOS is delusional.

Your second paragraph is funny, because your activity in other threads, show instantly how guilty you are of the thing you accuse me.

I'm fully aware of how the industry operates, as I worked in it and studied it the past 4 years. There's no need for insults. Perhaps I wasn't making myself clear in my original post.

Simply put, if a potential buyer purchases BlackBerry and is motivated by the enterprise side of things, wouldn't existing legacy OS be part of that package? That company could conclude it's more lucrative to sustain legacy because there's still an appetite for it. Even BlackBerry as it exists today admits that by releasing the 9720. BB10 could lose out in the equation due to slow adoption.

I don't see it as an insult to tell you that your understanding of the cell phone market, in this instance, apparently is limited.

Since you worked in that segment, I did not want to imply that you know nothing at all.
I for example work in the field of market research, probably focused somewhere in the field of cell phones.

We both know things, most certainly from first hand experiences.
And still, we disagree.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...hone-shipments

The 9720 is a device for these markets, where the $/perfomance ratio has to be good.

In releasing this phone, the only thing that BlackBerry proved, was that they are unwilling at best, or unable to sell the Q5 at a competitif price, at worst.

If you have read and followed the quarterly reports then you will know that most of BlackBerry's sales are not in "developped" nations, for a certain number of quarters now.
At the same time, the BYOD movement erodes BlackBerry's marketshare in the enterprise, as it offers less costs, more flexibility and happier employees to the employer.

A lot of people who got a work issued BlackBerry Curves hate that thing, if they use another OS personally, as BBOS is extremely limited, in the categories most consumers see as desirable.

At least in "developped" nations, a lot of evidence proves that consumers don't like BBOS.
In emerging markets, this is a little different, but the trend clearly indicates a massive shift to very cheap Android phones from local manufacturers.

China, the world's biggest cell phone market, is pretty much a wasteland, considering BBOS, and market penetration is very doubtfull (read as: realistically no one would ever want to try it) if it only starts now.
India is moving away from BlackBerry as well.

Meanwhile in "developped" nations:
Smartphones slowly but surely become a commodity and the market paradigm shifts.
We are now at the stage where you can buy a very good smartphone for far less money than it was possible 2-3 years ago.
The mid-range has become "good-enough".

We remember the Samsung Galaxy S2.
IIRC the S2 had a cost of about 600 Euro. It was THE high-end Android phone at the time.
Today, you can buy a 250 Euro phone that outperforms it.
Some could argue that the Lumia 520 with a cost of 150 Euro outperforms it.
That Apple still sells the iPhone 4 is an acknowledgement of that situation.

You were pretty clear in your OP.
But the facts show, that it wouldn't make sense to buy BlackBerry so that the potential buyer can continue to make legacy hardware.

Posted via CB10

[bobauckland]

I never called the OP a moron.
I said that the thought of a company buying parts of BlackBerry for BBOS is delusional.

Your second paragraph is funny, because your activity in other threads, show instantly how guilty you are of the thing you accuse me.



I don't see it as an insult to tell you that your understanding of the cell phone market, in this instance, apparently is limited.

Since you worked in that segment, I did not want to imply that you know nothing at all.
I for example work in the field of market research, probably focused somewhere in the field of cell phones.

We both know things, most certainly from first hand experiences.
And still, we disagree.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...hone-shipments

The 9720 is a device for these markets, where the $/perfomance ratio has to be good.

In releasing this phone, the only thing that BlackBerry proved, was that they are unwilling at best, or unable to sell the Q5 at a competitif price, at worst.

If you have read and followed the quarterly reports then will know that most of BlackBerry's sales are not in "developped" nations, for a certain number of quarters now.
At the same time, the BYOD movement erodes BlackBerry's marketshare in the enterprise, as it offers less costs, more flexibility and happier employees to the employer.

A lot of people who got a work issued BlackBerry Curves hate that thing, if they use another OS personally, as BBOS is extremely limited, in the categories most consumers see as desirable.

At least in "developped" nations, a lot of evidence proves that consumers don't like BBOS.
In emerging markets, this is a little different, but the trend clearly indicates a massive shift to very cheap Android phones from local manufacturers.

China, the world's biggest cell phone market, is pretty much a wasteland, considering BBOS, and market penetration is very doubtfull (read as: realistically no one would ever want to try it) if it only starts now.
India is moving away from BlackBerry as well.

Meanwhile in "developped" nations:
Smartphones slowly but surely become a commodity and the market paradigm shifts.
We are now at the stage where you can buy a very good smartphone for far less money than it was possible 2-3 years ago.
The mid-range has become "good-enough".

We remember the Samsung Galaxy S2.
IIRC the S2 had a cost of about 600 Euro. It was THE high-end Android phone at the time.
Today, you can buy a 250 Euro phone that outperforms it.
Some could argue that the Lumia 520 with a cost of 150 Euro outperforms it.
That Apple still sells the iPhone 4 is an acknowledgement of that situation.

You were pretty clear in your OP.
But the facts show, that it wouldn't make sense to buy BlackBerry so that the potential buyer can continue to make legacy hardware.

Posted via CB10

Actually as per usual you've followed a certain pattern.
You have insulted someone else for having the temerity to disagree with you.

You expressed your opinion while trying to show you have an in depth understanding of world markets.
You dismissed the ops opinion and suggestions when he was decent enough to ask for all opinions, except he wasn't as harsh or dismissive as you.

And, in the end, you painted your opinion as indisputable facts, something you seem to enjoy doing and like in other posters across threads.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

Actually as per usual you've followed a certain pattern.
You have insulted someone else for having the temerity to disagree with you.

You expressed your opinion while trying to show you have an in depth understanding of world markets.
You dismissed the ops opinion and suggestions when he was decent enough to ask for all opinions, except he wasn't as harsh or dismissive as you.

And, in the end, you painted your opinion as indisputable facts, something you seem to enjoy doing and like in other posters across threads.

Posted via CB10

There was no insult, again.
Since this will lead exactly nowhere, I'll keep it short.

I presented facts in the reply you quoted and sometimes combined them with my opinion.
The actuality themselves are indisputable, as they are facts.
Under the facts I presented, the only logical conclusion is that BBOS will not be the target for an acquisition.

If you would have something like a fait accompli, to contradict mine, we wouldn't even have this discussion right now.
Your problem is, that you yourself think that your opinion is incredibly great and that you are so awesome.
But most of the times you present exactly zero facts.

Not presenting any actuality, is also what the OP is doing.
He posted a topic and wrote a little opponionated paragraph, without any facts.

If you want to contradict what I said prove me wrong.
If you can't, what's your problem again?

Posted via CB10

[Roo Zilla]

Dear goodness.
Do you ever get tired of telling people they're morons because they don't share your opinion?
It's just unbelievable how many people seem to think there's no other view but their own.

To the OP, I don't know if it's possible, but I'd deffo hop on that bandwagon is there was legacy plus better hardware.

Not all opinions have the same degree of validity. For example, there's a bunch of people out there who believe the earth is flat. They even have a name, the Flat Earth Society. You can talk to them all you want and try to convince them the earth is round, but they won't believe it. I would put forth the argument that there exists enough evidence in 2013 to say with reasonable certainty that the earth is indeed round.

It would appear that some members believe the OP's opinion that BBOS has a future has about as much validity as the opinion that the earth is flat.

[bobauckland]

There was no insult, again.
Since this will lead exactly nowhere, I'll keep it short.

I presented facts in the reply you quoted and sometimes combined them with my opinion.
The actuality themselves are indisputable, as they are facts.
Under the facts I presented, the only logical conclusion is that BBOS will not be the target for an acquisition.

If you would have something like a fait accompli, to contradict mine, we wouldn't even have this discussion right now.
Your problem is, that you yourself think that your opinion is incredibly great and that you are so awesome.
But most of the times you present exactly zero facts.

Not presenting any actuality, is also what the OP is doing.
He posted a topic and wrote a little opponionated paragraph, without any facts.

If you want to contradict what I said prove me wrong.
If you can't, what's your problem again?

Posted via CB10

Actually, the problem is, and remains, that your method of debate involves slinging mud at the other side rather than reasoned discussion.
This was best evidenced by the time where you and others hounded belfast for about a month, in his thread, while he was actually, in a change to previous attitudes, trying to have a reasonable discussion, and instead you and others were constantly insulting and snide in your remarks.
Then somehow he got banned and you moved on to other pastures.
I'll keep this short as well. You contend you never insulted OP?

This train of thought alone, is a sign of pure desperation and the complete inability to understand the structure of the cell phone market right now.

Wow, just wow...

...blah blah blah...

The thought of a 3rd party picking up BBOS to further develop and employ it in handsets is just a delusion...

Posted via CB10

That's certainly not a compliment.
Long paragraphs and copy pasted figures from stock pages do not make a savvy investor.

Not all opinions have the same degree of validity. For example, there's a bunch of people out there who believe the earth is flat. They even have a name, the Flat Earth Society. You can talk to them all you want and try to convince them the earth is round, but they won't believe it. I would put forth the argument that there exists enough evidence in 2013 to say with reasonable certainty that the earth is indeed round.

It would appear that some members believe the OP's opinion that BBOS has a future has about as much validity as the opinion that the earth is flat.

You're quite right about certain things. There is, however, scientific evidence that the world is round.
There is also scientific evidence that BBOS marketshare FAR outweighs BB10 marketshare, and with the debacle of the last few days, that's unlikely to change.
I think your analogy is good, but you have the groups mixed up, re who believes the world is flat, and who believes its round.

I will take the point that BBOS needs the NOC to function, and without it is a paperweight.
If the NOC lives on though, BBOS has a far better future than BB10 in the near term, who would really develop or advance a dead platform walking?

[Bbnivende]

In some markets BIS ( or some form of data compression) is still a viable proposition. I can see company taking on BIS (or similar) and providing a high level feature phone that can replace the Curve in those markets.

[birdman_38]

That's certainly not a compliment.
Long paragraphs and copy pasted figures from stock pages do not make a savvy investor.

Yeah, I feel like I'm not even being debated by him.

[David Murray1]

I love my Bold 9900, I love BBOS7, I love BIS (especially) and I love my PlayBook. I love legacy <3

[Bbnivende]

I love my Bold 9900, I love BBOS7, I love BIS (especially) and I love my PlayBook. I love legacy <3

Ah the Playbook ... a little S&M with your lovin...

[MarsupilamiX]

Yeah, I feel like I'm not even being debated by him.

If you don't understand why everything I said is relevant to the decision making of a company buying parts of BlackBerry to continue BES and BBOS then it's useless to have this discussion.





This chart alone should be enough, to understand why BBOS wouldn't be the target for an acquisition.

But I went more in depth, so that you understand the finer details.
What sense does it make to buy the BES infrastructure but scrap BES10, in a BYOD environment where BlackBerry completely loses out?
If anything, you would want the BYOD MDM software called BES10.

Why should someone buy BIS, just for legacy devices that are on a steady decline considering marketshare and profits?
If anything, one would buy the BIS infrastructure and open in up to other handsets and operating systems that are not BlackBerry based.
In the second step after opening up the infrastructure you collect a monthly payment for it.
But BBOS still disappears in that scenario as the hardware business tied to BBOS is pretty much useless as an acquisition target.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...hone-shipments

I already posted this article before but apparently you either didn't read it, or didn't understand it.
This article alone, pretty much proves that the Android OS is the way to go, for "cheap" smartphones.
WP as well, because of its awesome scalability.

If that isn't cheap enough, Nokia offers a 26$ feature phone.
To acquire BBOS is just useless and redundant in a World with far better options.
Be it for start ups, or already existing local manufacturers.
It wouldn't make any sense.

If you don't think that all of that is relevant, I can't help you.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

Actually, the problem is, and remains, that your method of debate involves slinging mud at the other side rather than reasoned discussion.
This was best evidenced by the time where you and others hounded belfast for about a month, in his thread, while he was actually, in a change to previous attitudes, trying to have a reasonable discussion, and instead you and others were constantly insulting and snide in your remarks.
Then somehow he got banned and you moved on to other pastures.
I'll keep this short as well. You contend you never insulted OP?



That's certainly not a compliment.
Long paragraphs and copy pasted figures from stock pages do not make a savvy investor.

No, I didn't insult anyone.
Actually, the word "delusion" is an antonym of "fact".
It may not be utterly friendly, but it is a far cry from being insulting.

Talking about the discussions with Belfast in the way you do, clearly shows your bias.
Please post the links to the 2-3 threads and let the guys decide who want to reread a 60 pages thread.

I provided facts to everything I said, and Belfast back then, as you are doing right now, tried to contradict facts with opinion.
There was no "hounding".

Your bias shows, because you, like Belfast, believe that BBOS is sooooo awesome.
The facts contradict that, for 97% of consumers.

Therefore the point still stands:
If you can't contradict what I said with facts, either accept it, or stay quiet.

who would really develop or advance a dead platform walking?

You just described BBOS. See the graph in the post above.

Posted via CB10

[kbz1960]

So someone is going to buy the legacy division and do what RIM could not? OK a niche player in a niche market, maybe a tiny company can make that work but in most markets very few want legacy devices.

[bp3dots]

Perhaps Blackberry should finally ask it's core customer base, business people, what they want.

I always believed that Blackberry was designed for business productivity and gained broad success when it was discovered and adopted by the masses.

But things changed and although most people want a toy now, business still demands productivity.

Trying to appeal to a few gaming kids, most of who wouldn't buy Blackberry anyways is the present loosing strategy of OS10.

Are you guys really still pretending that other devices aren't "productive?" The blinders have to come off sometime. iOS, Android, and WP devices are just as, if not more productive than, BlackBerries. AND they are able to entertain as well.

If BB was truly the only smartphone capable of doing productive work, you wouldn't see executives, doctors, lawyers, educators, etc. using all sortd of others. This type of thinking is what first put BB on the downslide. You can't gnore the strengths of your competition and expect to stay relevant.