New definition of failure

**hurds** · 07-03-2012, 02:43 AM

So I read a lot of people say the PB is a failure as though its an accepted fact. Now I strongly disagree with that but I won't argue that right now. But, if the PB is a failure, what is every other tablet aside from the ipad and kindle (I dont know why anyone would count the transformer considering it has a keyboard).

Sales wise most of the competition could be considered a failure if thats our benchmark. I would consider the unreleased google tablet, coming a good year and a bit after the playbook without a rear camera even to be considered a failure. Or I would consider the kindle with no cameras and no accelorometer to be a failure. But that would be my definition.

So is sales why people consider and proclaim the PB to be a failure? I think the real failure is the touchpad. In comparison I don't know how anyone could come to the conclusion that the playbook is a failure. So what are peoples definition of a failure and how does it apply to the different tablets?

**cgk** · 07-03-2012, 02:55 AM

Yes the majority of tablets are failures, they sell in small numbers and make little profit. However besides the touchpad, as far as I am aware only the playbook resulted in a write-off of over a billion dollars - by any normal measure it is a spectacular commerical failure.

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express

**ynomrah** · 07-03-2012, 03:15 AM

The Asus transformer series of tablets are not packaged with the keyboard docks. It is a detachable accessory that is sold completely separate. The prime is a tablet.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

**Saiga** · 07-03-2012, 12:33 PM

Sales are the only thing that matters. No one buys the PlayBook. Therefore it is a failure. The PlayBook could have the best of everything and it is still a failure. The PlayBook has great cameras. Who cares, that don't make it a success. It is a 1.5 Billion dollar mistake, do you honestly think it having an accelerometer makes it all ok? lol

Too many people here are confusing quality of the product with commercial success. The Touchpad and the PlayBook are both good products, but they are also both complete and utter failures. The only difference was HP was smart enough to pull the plug and RIM isn't.

**ayekon** · 07-03-2012, 12:43 PM

I would like to thank you for wasting a portion of my data plan.

**Moonbase0ne** · 07-03-2012, 12:46 PM

It's not really selling as they hoped it would. But, aside from that, it's not making rim a profit. In fact, they lost a lot of money on it. I'm sure they would rather have a inferior Playbook that sold and made money as opposed to a superior Playbook that doesn't.

**kbz1960** · 07-03-2012, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by ayekon

I would like to thank you for wasting a portion of my data plan.

OK can I not thank you for your useless input?

It's all about sales around here. I have to wonder if the least sold heart catheter is a failure even though it saves lives like the rest.

**Moonbase0ne** · 07-03-2012, 12:58 PM

What exactly is your definition of a successful and failed product?

Just curious.

**eve6er69** · 07-03-2012, 12:58 PM

Calling things failures because they don't like it is all very subjective to what you need and want.

Looking at the financial numbers compared to most other tablets in that price range sales are a definite failure.

I can't even go into a store and buy an accessory for my playbook other than a screen protector.

Sent from my Bold using Tapatalk

**scalemaster34** · 07-03-2012, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by berryboba

Sales are the only thing that matters. No one buys the PlayBook. Therefore it is a failure. The PlayBook could have the best of everything and it is still a failure. The PlayBook has great cameras. Who cares, that don't make it a success. It is a 1.5 Billion dollar mistake, do you honestly think it having an accelerometer makes it all ok? lol

Too many people here are confusing quality of the product with commercial success. The Touchpad and the PlayBook are both good products, but they are also both complete and utter failures. The only difference was HP was smart enough to pull the plug and RIM isn't.

Great Camera?? That is news to me, it does take good video with enough light.

As for a failure... It's purpose was 1) As a test bed for BB10, and 2) Get RIM into the Tablet market before Apple completely dominated it, and 3) Make RIM Money.

1) Failed - In my opinion BB10 might have been completed by now if RIM didn't spend so much time with the PlayBook. It couldn't have take longer than it has so far, could it?

2) Failed - Apple still doesn't even know RIM make a Tablet.

3) Failed - Big Time!

Not saying it isn't a good Tablet at this point. Just that like most every other table it is not a commercial success.

**pantlesspenguin** · 07-03-2012, 01:09 PM

I think the difference between the PB and others is that the PB didn't really live up to expectations. The other tablet options told of their weaknesses/shortcomings up front. No rear cam in the Nexus 7 (which I don't really see why it matters given several posts regarding how ridiculous people look taking pictures with tablets), no cams or gps in the Kindle Fire (the Fire was basically marketed as an e-reader with apps), every other Android tab wasn't very impressive given their price points that most consumers wanted to pony up the extra $100 and get an iPad.

Then there's the PB. The first "professional grade tablet"......which didn't have native email and calendar functionality for the first, what, 10 months after release? Bridge functionality is awesome and pretty revolutionary.......but your average consumer didn't really know what that meant. Marketing to THOSE people was pretty much non-existant. Bezel gestures are awesome and intuitive once you get the hang of using them..........but in-store display models didn't have a way of showing the shopper how they worked at all. Shoppers were searching for physical or on-screen buttons to try to navigate, and when they couldn't find them they moved on to the next tablet on display. That's where I think the sales problems stemmed from.

ETA: Also, consider price points. The Kindle Fire and Nexus 7 are at the $199 price point at release. The PB started at $499. I think people are willing to forego cameras and gps on their tablets at the $199 price point because they still have those capabilities on their phones, most likely.

**kbz1960** · 07-03-2012, 01:10 PM

Playbook is a failure if you look at market share blah blah blah.

But if you look at it as being the test bed for bb10 I'm not sure it is a failure. I'm sure they learned a lot about what works and doesn't, what needs to be changed etc. In that respect even though we have been like guinea pigs that spent our own money I think it has been a cheap research and development tool. So maybe not a failure in the sense.

I didn't/don't mind being a guinea pig as long as it has been useful to me which it has so my pb has not been a failure to me.

**louzer** · 07-03-2012, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by scalemaster34

Great Camera?? That is news to me, it does take good video with enough light.

As for a failure... It's purpose was 1) As a test bed for BB10, and 2) Get RIM into the Tablet market before Apple completely dominated it, and 3) Make RIM Money.

1) Failed - In my opinion BB10 might have been completed by now if RIM didn't spend so much time with the PlayBook. It couldn't have take longer than it has so far, could it?

2) Failed - Apple still doesn't even know RIM make a Tablet.

3) Failed - Big Time!

Not saying it isn't a good Tablet at this point. Just that like most every other table it is not a commercial success.

No one but RIM knows the answer to this one. We have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. People here make comments all the time about how anyone could bang out a new OS in a short period of time without knowing any of the complexities and intricicies of what's actually going on behind the scenes.

We don't know that the difficulties that they're experiencing are isolated to BB10-on-a-phone development or just the natural complexities of integrating all of the disparate functionality that they have developed and/or acquired into the QNX kernal. If the later is the case, then the developing Playbook OS might have been providing key insight into the challenges and, subsequently, the solutions to those challenges all along. We don't know that having a Playbook in the wild running an OS based on the QNX kernal hasn't provided key insight into the direction(s) they need to be heading. But if this is the case, as I suspect that it is, then the writeoff is both loss based on sales and R&D.

**Tre Lawrence** · 07-03-2012, 01:52 PM

I thought the Xoom was a nice tablet. Really nice. I think the foolish way Moto marketed it caused it to fail.

For me, it's black or white. If a product causes the executive staff to wince every time it is mentioned, then chances are that it is doing nothing for the company's bottom line.

Does anyone think Apple TV is currently considered a success by Apple?

I owned a Kindle for a short time. For several reasons, it simply did not work for me. I'd still consider it a commercial success (yes, I know the margins on it are razor thin).

Now, flip it for a minute... if you buy a product you enjoy, why does it matter if it has failed commercially or not? I don't understand the overly emotional connection. I don't care if I am the ONLY person who buys a product if I like the product. I understand that success means new iterations and continued support, but in the short term, the PB is not being threatened with extinction.

**sevoman** · 07-03-2012, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by berryboba

Sales are the only thing that matters. No one buys the PlayBook. Therefore it is a failure. The PlayBook could have the best of everything and it is still a failure. The PlayBook has great cameras. Who cares, that don't make it a success. It is a 1.5 Billion dollar mistake, do you honestly think it having an accelerometer makes it all ok? lol

Too many people here are confusing quality of the product with commercial success. The Touchpad and the PlayBook are both good products, but they are also both complete and utter failures. The only difference was HP was smart enough to pull the plug and RIM isn't.

i have been saying this all along. people rave about how the playbook's OS is more advanced than others, QNX this and that... but at the end of the day, what good is it if it's outsold 20:1 (ipad/galaxy tabs : playbooks)? quality =/= sales. unfortunately.

**elphie28** · 07-03-2012, 08:35 PM

The PB may be a "failure", but I love it and bought two of them (and don't even resent that I paid full price for the first one -- got a GREAT deal on the 2nd one ). I bought and sold both the ipad and the Kindle Fire, but you will have to cremate my PB along with me, be-cause it will probably be in my hand when I die! Failure? Not for me! If more people would get past their pre-conceived ideas about anything BlackBerry they might agree with me.

**Moonbase0ne** · 07-03-2012, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by elphie28

The PB may be a "failure", but I love it and bought two of them (and don't even resent that I paid full price for the first one -- got a GREAT deal on the 2nd one ). I bought and sold both the ipad and the Kindle Fire, but you will have to cremate my PB along with me, be-cause it will probably be in my hand when I die! Failure? Not for me! If more people would get past their pre-conceived ideas about anything BlackBerry they might agree with me.

Unfortunately, RIM has done a terrible job in convincing people otherwise.

**JTATL** · 07-03-2012, 08:54 PM

Ok reality check. Apple in last 5 quarters sold over 65 million full priced iPads . Blackberry sold 1.5 million playbooks most of them deeply discounted and the loss written off. You be the judge of who was the success.

Second PB was never a test bed for qnx or bb10 you can tell urself that if u like but it was a product designed to make money not write down 100's of billions of product. Sane companies do not do that.

To put it bluntly the PB is a failure on the level of the introduction of new coke or the hp touchpad

**elphie28** · 07-03-2012, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Moonbaseone

Unfortunately, RIM has done a terrible job in convincing people otherwise.

And unfortunately I agree with you. None of the retailers made much of an effort either. Almost everyone who has seen my Playbook has been impressed. Most did not realize that it was even available! Most bought the Kindle Fire because it has been advertised all over the place.....yet I still feel the PB is so much better. It's sad really

**hurds** · 07-03-2012, 09:52 PM

Got the answers I was looking for.

Now you should all go to mcdonalds for your daily big mac cause sales proove its the best.

And people wonder why fanbots get called sheep.

Edit:
I apologize for the absolute. Should have send 'sales above all people' vs 'all'

**elphie28** · 07-03-2012, 09:53 PM

Oops....double post.

**JTATL** · 07-03-2012, 09:54 PM

Why didn't RIM run an ad campaign? Simple it was targeted to current blackberry owners who they figured would flock to it however they didn't. It could never be a consumer product for non bb users because it didn't have native apps for email contacts or calendar or any app ecosystem of popular apps. Remember you can't judge PB by the the wonderful 2.0 version we must remember it was the crippled 1.0 os they sold for 10 months prior that determined its marketability.

RIM should have paired os2.0 upgrade with a massive tv ad campaign to inform public what the new stand alone PB was capable of they didn't so there was no sales buzz.

**Tre Lawrence** · 07-03-2012, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by hurds

Got the answers I was looking for.

Now you should all go to mcdonalds for your daily big mac cause sales proove its the best.

And people wonder why fanbots get called sheep.

Flawed analogy. You've used it before (and most likely will again), but hey...

If iOS devices were cheap and used the technological equivalent of mystery meat to keep prices low, you would have a logical argument. In the category that it exists in, all things being equal, Mickey D is king, much like Symbian holds court in lower end devices.

Now, I believe there are very few people that would pick a Big Mac when filet mignon is available FOR THE SAME PRICE. Not too many people would pick a bicycle if a BMW costs the same.

Apple wins even though they charge a premium. In the premium category, Apple wins.

Now, I'm off to wait for you to angrily ask those who disagree with you why they are here.

Mobile post via Tapatalk

**BlackBerry Guy** · 07-03-2012, 10:39 PM

The PlayBook had incredible potential going for it prior to launch. Even the media, both tech and mainstream, was proclaiming this the "iPad killer" everyone was waiting for. Essentially it had the type of hype surrounding it that marketing can't buy. Everything couldn't have been laid out more perfectly for a resurgence. Then the PlayBook launched...inexplicably without things people would consider to be part of basic tablet functionality. We all know what happened after that. Yes, RIM fixed it...not within 60 days, but a full 10 months later. By then the damage was already done.

**Tre Lawrence** · 07-03-2012, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by Blackberry Guy

The PlayBook had incredible potential going for it prior to launch. Even the media, both tech and mainstream, was proclaiming this the "iPad killer" everyone was waiting for. Essentially it had the type of hype surrounding it that marketing can't buy. Everything couldn't have been laid out more perfectly for a resurgence. Then the PlayBook launched...inexplicably without things people would consider to be part of basic tablet functionality. We all know what happened after that...

Incorrect, sir. It was perfect, and the media and US government (in league with Rupert Murdoch) sabotaged it. Yes.

Mobile post via Tapatalk