[anon8656116]

I think Windows Phone just has the better future prospects than BlackBerry to the eyes of developers. Microsoft has cash to spend and will continue supporting the platform for a long time, especially now that they’ve announced Windows 10 for Windows Phone devices and universal apps that will run on it. This will allow them to consolidate developer ressources over time. In addition, Microsoft is building up very strong cloud services to compete with Google, the most sought-after apps on all platforms. Office 365 and native Office apps, Exchange support with Outlook.com, OneDrive (currently the best cloud storage offer you can get). They’re pressing the attack on different fronts now. They are also venturing into new areas like wearables and virtual reality, inciting developers even more.

BlackBerry offers none of this: no long breath, continuous questioning whether BlackBerry will keep the hardware division, apps that only run on BlackBerry 10 smartphones (with limited portability even if you code everything in C++/Qt), no cloud services that people would want to use, no prospect of Office-class document support, no immediate intention to enter any new hardware markets.

[yessuz]

At what cost? Microsoft have probably spent over a billion dollar to promote Windows phone in the past 3 years. That's not including buying out Nokia. So far I have not seen them make any progress and I'm pretty sure they have been taking loses year after year. Whereas BlackBerry doesn't have the money like Microsoft but focuses on minimizing lost and focus on profits.

Windows Metro UI looks fun and cool but in practice its not efficient as BB10 UI. This is why some people just don't understand or get the interface. Microsoft will continue to bleed if they don't change it up again and come up with something more innovative imo.

when you think about it:
MS spent ~billion. Apps coming and Windows is steadily growing.
BBRY sits on 3BN in cash...

[JRF_1986]

While I do notice that Windows has some apps missing from BlackBerry, I do notice that there really isn't much more support.
My Q10 runs pretty much the same apps as my Moto X, Note 2 and Lumia 830. While the Windows OS looks nice, I have apps that haven't been updated in months (Instagram) and having the option of iGrann or the android port of Instagram makes up for the "lack of support", personally I prefer using iGrann than Instagram on Windows.
Each platform has their pros and cons. While BB has never been the phone for the App crowd, it definitely has potential.
BB10 is my favorite OS of the ones I use and everyone has their favorite as well.

[seascape]

Because in theory, these aren't for Window's Phone, they are for the Windows platform.

Microsoft is getting the worst ROI I have ever seen. It will probably pay off in the end, but right now it is in the red. Even with their $50 entry level devices that people just throw away after a couple of months and their $100 mid-level devices that might lead to liking the platform, they can barely sell their top of the line products.

OP, I think you must be watching the WP Store from a distance, because I have a WP and the WP Store is nothing to be proud of. It has a little more than BlackBerry and like BlackBerry it too has some fantastic apps that you cannot get anywhere else, but it is no model by which BlackBerry should measure themselves.

This. In terms of scale, Apple and Google's stores are the ones that everyone makes apps for. I've seen far more apps that are exclusive to iOS than for any other single platform.

[anon(679606)]

what concerns me is today selling the hard case for the passport down from $35 to $5 !!! Hmmm... longevity ??

I've been using BlackBerry for 4 months and I love it.
I'm just wondering why blackberry really lacks of applications. I mean the native ones.
Cz what I see, windows phone today is getting more and more new apps and applications updates since I have also Lumia 620.
It's an excuse for small market share? Since people keep saying that developers don't want to make apps because of small users.
Now I think back to windows phone which sucks back into early 2013 with terrible experience. Now they improving and new apps keep coming.
In this case I am thinking the rise of blackberry is in the same start as windowsphone in early 2013. Cz back in in the time. Blackberry smartphone (Z10) could do way more than windowsphone did.
I see Microsoft has good promotion if their smartphone (from what I see in Indonesia). But, blackberry I only see once in 2013.
People only know android phones and iPhone, some people only know blackberry as phone from 2006 era. Some people don't even know blackberry 10 OS and still think that it needs special Internet subscription. Which for some people see this as impractical since mostly people use prepaid card and has to activate different package for that.
Blackberry barely promote its smartphone. Too bad, it's very good OS.

Posted from CB10 with BlackBerry Z3

[Phone Guy 4567]

Microsoft are selling millions of those throw-away devices. Though I personally doubt how many are thrown-away.

From the Verge, reporting on MS's Q2 figures:
On the Lumia side, Microsoft continues to focus on the low-end without a flagship handset, but the gamble has paid off. Microsoft has sold 10.5 million Lumia devices in the latest quarter, compared to the 8.2 million during the same period last year. That's an impressive 28 percent increase year-over-year, and exactly the direction that Lumia and Windows Phone needs to be heading. However, it comes at a cost. Windows Phone revenue has dropped by 61 percent, and Microsoft blames a Nokia commercial agreement which terminated during fiscal Q4.

So, not 3x but 7x more WP sales.

I did chuckle at the "New apps keep coming, even for Windows Phone" thread title. The implication that Microsoft and BlackBerry are in remotely the same position, either financially or commercially, is laughable.

Yup

If people find things on the WP side laughable then the things taking place on the BB side are positively roll on the floor hilarious. The Android Player and inclusion of the Amazon App Store is BB waving the white flag and giving up IMO, and why no one is really coming out with native apps anymore.

IMO Chen is slowly moving towards full Android and away from BB10. Doing it slowly allows them to save face and not admit that BB10 was a flop. If there isn't a significant rise in device sales they will get out of devices altogether and concentrate on BB12 and licensing their various technologies to other vendors.

[Thunderbuck]

BlackBerry World may finally see attention from developers when there are 40-50 million BB10 phones out there. If there is any less than that, it's not worth the effort because it won't reach enough users to bother with.

BlackBerry tried to battle this. They held "hackathons" to drum up support with student/hobbyist devs. They paid bigger devs like Songza to port their apps over. That helped, but only so much.

The platform is still viable, but the truth is that for now the best, most sensible thing a developer can do is to code for Android to BlackBerry standards (yes, you can do that) and publish in Amazon's store.

Posted from CB10 running on my awesome PASSPORT(!) 2BDDB50E

[amonte64]

No reason? My reason is just wanna get better experience. Personally. Well, everyone has different needs.

Posted from CB10 with BlackBerry Z3

What are you talking about? BlackBerry 10 has all the apps. It doesn't matter whether it comes from BlackBerry World, amazon or Google play store.

Posted via CB10

[Traxxmy]

What are you talking about? BlackBerry 10 has all the apps. It doesn't matter whether it comes from BlackBerry World, amazon or Google play store.

Posted via CB10

Maybe you are the one that should think what you talking about.

Symbian is still and always my favourite Os. Nokia 808. FilePLAY Music Player

[amonte64]

Maybe you are the one that should think what you talking about.

Symbian is still and always my favourite Os. Nokia 808. FilePLAY Music Player

No elaboration. Waste of a post.

Posted via CB10

[JeepBB]

BlackBerry World may finally see attention from developers when there are 40-50 million BB10 phones out there. If there is any less than that, it's not worth the effort because it won't reach enough users to bother with.

I agree with you. Something like 50M users appears to be the point at which Devs seem to take notice. That's certainly when the WP store seemed to awake, though it's still slow and Apps often lag behind their equivalents in other platform stores.

Seeing as we agree that 50M is the magic number, and given that BB sold <6M devices last year (only half? of which were BB10). How long do you think it will take BB to reach a user base of 50M BB10 devices?

[GadgetTravel]

I agree with you. Something like 50M users appears to be the point at which Devs seem to take notice. That's certainly when the WP store seemed to awake, though it's still slow and Apps often lag behind their equivalents in other platform stores.

Seeing as we agree that 50M is the magic number, and given that BB sold <6M devices last year (only half? of which were BB10). How long do you think it will take BB to reach a user base of 50M BB10 devices?

Is the question "when". There doesn't seem to be a path to that number if it is really 3 million per year.

Posted via CB10

[JeepBB]

Is the question "when". There doesn't seem to be a path to that number if it is really 3 million per year.

Posted via CB10

Which was really my point.

If it takes the better part of 10 years to grow BB10 userbase to the level where Devs will *begin* to take a real interest in native development, it's not going to happen. Ever.

I doubt that even the most ardent BB10 fan can really believe that BB management will give the platform the *years* it needs to gain traction.

[paulwallace1234]

There will never be 50m users if BlackBerry keep making Phones like the Leap, and that slider, I really doubt it will sell that well, Another Passport

[Troy Tiscareno]

Which was really my point.

If it takes the better part of 10 years to grow BB10 userbase to the level where Devs will *begin* to take a real interest in native development, it's not going to happen. Ever.

I doubt that even the most ardent BB10 fan can really believe that BB management will give the platform the *years* it needs to gain traction.

The problem is that when a new phone is sold, it's only going to be "counted" for a max of 2 years, under the assumption that most users will replace it with something else by then. Sure, some people will hold on to it longer, but others will replace their device after 6 months, so 2 years is a good average. How many people bought a Z10 or Q10 at launch but have already moved on to something else, BB or otherwise?

So, what that means is: if you are trying to reach 50M users, you need to be selling 25M phones per year. That is the threshold you're dealing with.

[GoJaysGo]

As much as BlackBerry positions themselves as a Enterprise device, there are more Enterprise apps available for iOS then there is for BlackBerry. The largest one in the world, Microsoft Office is not available on BlackBerry. And Sheets to Go is not an enterprise tool.

Tools not toys right.

[JeepBB]

The problem is that when a new phone is sold, it's only going to be "counted" for a max of 2 years, under the assumption that most users will replace it with something else by then.

I decided to ignore the effect of handset churn in my "10-years to reach the 50M start-line" estimate above, as I didn't want it to be too depressing. Someone has to think of the kittens, Troy! LOL

But you're right of course. Most people stop using any particular make of phone after a time, so the user base story won't be a continually increasing line unless the new buyers greatly outweigh the leavers.

[Thunderbuck]

Which was really my point.

If it takes the better part of 10 years to grow BB10 userbase to the level where Devs will *begin* to take a real interest in native development, it's not going to happen. Ever.

I doubt that even the most ardent BB10 fan can really believe that BB management will give the platform the *years* it needs to gain traction.

The growth in BB10 users should be accelerating. If they make 10 million this year that should nearly triple the existing user base.

If they could get that user base to 15 million this year, 25-30 million by the end of 2016 isn't out of the question.

Posted from CB10 on my classy Passport--TBUCK64

[Thunderbuck]

There will never be 50m users if BlackBerry keep making Phones like the Leap, and that slider, I really doubt it will sell that well, Another Passport

What's wrong with the Leap? It would seem to be exactly the kind of high-volume affordable phone that stands to grow the user base.

I have no interest whatsoever in a Nissan Versa, but that won't stop millions of them from being sold.

Posted from CB10 on my classy Passport--TBUCK64

[anon(679606)]

Of course, if Chen keeps saying "you'll have to wait," the entire user pool may bail out soon... this is not a patience based industry... people want it NOW & will change phones without a moment's hesitation strolling the mall encountering a kiosk... security? ...a myth when the hackers decide to devote time to the tiny BlackBerry diaspora...

The growth in BB10 users should be accelerating. If they make 10 million this year that should nearly triple the existing user base.

If they could get that user base to 15 million this year, 25-30 million by the end of 2016 isn't out of the question.

Posted from CB10 on my classy Passport--TBUCK64

[paulwallace1234]

What's wrong with the Leap? It would seem to be exactly the kind of high-volume affordable phone that stands to grow the user base.

I have no interest whatsoever in a Nissan Versa, but that won't stop millions of them from being sold.

Posted from CB10 on my classy Passport--TBUCK64

Nothing wrong as such, not the best looker and not exactly going to be cheap as needed from the sounds of it, but they should have and yes I know I'll get moaned at, revealed a high spec full touch, the Slider thing doesn't count.

Not everyone wants a Keyboard phone, I don't want a keyboard phone, I want to see something that might intrest myself and others to switch over, we have the OS, but the z30 is old, a Passport specc'ed Full Touch would out sell the Passport and Classic easily if they bothered to advertise.

[GadgetTravel]

The growth in BB10 users should be accelerating. If they make 10 million this year that should nearly triple the existing user base.

If they could get that user base to 15 million this year, 25-30 million by the end of 2016 isn't out of the question.

Posted from CB10 on my classy Passport--TBUCK64

Is growth in BB10 sales increasing to anywhere near those numbers? Or increasing at all?

Posted via CB10