[ajst222]

So BlackBerry can release phones with keyboards and that's fine, but if those phones have trackpads, suddenly they're perceived as backwards? Releasing any phones with physical keyboards already is going against the grain, so if you can add more utility to the device with another button or physical element, why not? Who cares what the cool kids think--they're not going to buy the phone anyway because it has a keyboard (among other reasons).

I think one of the challenges BlackBerry is wrestling with is deciding who it's trying to please. It wants to appeal to the broader market while maintaining its existing user base. The problem is, it's doing neither of those things very well. It's like a "nerdy" kid who's trying to impress the "cool" kids so they'll like him (yes, for this analogy, I'm calling us BB fans "nerds" ). Sure, he's got some slick new clothes on, but underneath, he's still a "nerd." And the cool kids were never going to like him anyways, regardless of his clothes.

The "technical" reasons I see in threads like this for why a trackpad wouldn't work with the BlackBerry 10 are based on some false assumptions, such as gestures being the *only* way Peek & Flow could work. Windows offers a bunch of interaction options, such as mice, trackpads, keyboards shortcuts, touch gestures, stylus/digitizers, etc. And just as the keyboard shortcuts that many are clamoring for can work with BB 10, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't take a few seasoned engineers more that few hours to map out how a trackpad could work.

Ultimately, it seems like BlackBerry is taking a "red ocean" strategy, but doesn't offer a compelling enough value proposition to steal market share. Plus, it unfortunately has some key competitive gaps in areas like apps and ecosystem. Meanwhile, the "blue ocean," which includes some of BlackBerry's most hardcore or loyal customers, is evaporating due to neglect.

But here's the thing...what are the cool kids going to do when the nerdy kid tries to fit in? Are they just going to leave him alone? No they're going to go "Hey Joe...look at this loser. He's trying to hangout with us. What a wannabe nerd". And that will spread. The same way that it would spread if BlackBerry put old technology in a new device. Yeah, there are going to be people who aren't interested from the start but then they will have something ELSE to mock BlackBerry for. And obviously they will bring it up and it will spread so it would ruin it for those who might want a BlackBerry because they will think "Why should I buy a phone that everyone mocks?".

BlackBerry could do a great job appealing BB10 to the masses if they MARKET IT! They need to market it well and they need a commercial that won't bore the hell out of people. That means they can't just show someone using the device and show off features.

Anyone remember this commercial?:
The best ads don't show off the phone itself. They just take something sentimental or something "more than the device" and put it on screen

If they do decide to show off a bit of the phone, at least make it interesting! Like what they did with the original Torch 9800:
Instead of having the phone front and center with a thumb navigating the phone, hype it. Nobody likes a bland commercial. Plus, the music is very catchy in both commercials.

[lorax1284]

Call, end call, and back buttons wouldn't work well with BB10. A track pad won't either. It's pointless and redundant. And I've explained the downside.

Please link to the message where you explain the downside, and saying it won't work well is 100% conjecture on your part, and no one would force you to use it. There are already soft call, end call and back buttons (and I didn't even ASK for a back button) on the device so all the hard buttons would do would be whatever the soft ones do. Likewise, you can connect a external mouse / keyboard to the PlayBook, and it works at the OS level, in apps, without any special support by the app developers.

[matt4pack]

I never have felt the need for a trackpad on my Z10 and with 10.1, the cursor (bubble thing) is so much better, it's scary. But I think a virtual trackpad would be a good compromise for those who have been begging for one. It won't interfere with the gestures UI that people like myself thing a physical trackpad would ruin (not to mention it would look ugly) and it would make text selection easier for those who want it.

It will never be better no matter how good it is compared to other OS's because you're hiding part of the screen with your hand like when you're dragging the bubble. A trackpad is way better for text editing in the same way a mouse is.

[unbreakablej]

A software keypad might help!

Posted via CB10

[Thud Hardsmack]

A software keypad might help!

Posted via CB10

Have you seen the Z10 yet?



Posted via CB10

[Nine54]

But here's the thing...what are the cool kids going to do when the nerdy kid tries to fit in? Are they just going to leave him alone? No they're going to go "Hey Joe...look at this loser. He's trying to hangout with us. What a wannabe nerd". And that will spread. The same way that it would spread if BlackBerry put old technology in a new device. Yeah, there are going to be people who aren't interested from the start but then they will have something ELSE to mock BlackBerry for. And obviously they will bring it up and it will spread so it would ruin it for those who might want a BlackBerry because they will think "Why should I buy a phone that everyone mocks?".

BlackBerry could do a great job appealing BB10 to the masses if they MARKET IT! They need to market it well and they need a commercial that won't bore the hell out of people. That means they can't just show someone using the device and show off features.

Anyone remember this commercial?: They just take something sentimental or something "more than the device" and put it on screen

If they do decide to show off a bit of the phone, at least make it interesting! Like what they did with the original Torch 9800: Instead of having the phone front and center with a thumb navigating the phone, hype it. Nobody likes a bland commercial. Plus, the music is very catchy in both commercials.

I agree that more marketing is needed...and certainly better ads. But, while more awareness is part of it, it's also about making people want your product. To that end, BB needs compelling features that it can highlight in ads and make people go, "holy schnikes, I want that." I think Samsung is doing a good job of taking its unique but arguably gimmicky features and turning them into compelling ads that show how the device improves an ordinary situation: video playback pausing while the dad dozes watching the game, the video pausing while the dad swaddles the baby, using the air gestures to control the phone while your hands are dirty, etc.

But here's the thing...what are the cool kids going to do when the nerdy kid tries to fit in?

You have a point about avoiding giving people reasons to mock it, but what if some people actually like the things some people might mock? Physical keyboards are a great example of this. Some people want physical keyboards, and they might be ostracized for that. But if you clung to a BB because of the keyboard, you would be ostracized because your phone has a keyboard AND can't do what other phones could do. That's what BB needed to address when "modernizing" its devices. So, when someone sarcastically goes, "Oh, cool BlackBerry, too bad it can't do this," you could respond, "Uh, yes it can, jack@ss," and show them.

The point is that maybe BB should stop trying to fit in with the cool kids, especially when there's a group whom it already fits in with. And maybe that group is is an older crowd...that wears suits and spends more time in conferences rooms than coffee shops. This crowd knows its making a compromise on things such as screen size when it wants a phone with a keyboard and its cool with that: just don't make it unnecessarily compromise on a raft of other things as well.

[ajst222]

I agree that more marketing is needed...and certainly better ads. But, while more awareness is part of it, it's also about making people want your product. To that end, BB needs compelling features that it can highlight in ads and make people go, "holy schnikes, I want that." I think Samsung is doing a good job of taking its unique but arguably gimmicky features and turning them into compelling ads that show how the device improves an ordinary situation: video playback pausing while the dad dozes watching the game, the video pausing while the dad swaddles the baby, using the air gestures to control the phone while your hands are dirty, etc.



You have a point about avoiding giving people reasons to mock it, but what if some people actually like the things some people might mock? Physical keyboards are a great example of this. Some people want physical keyboards, and they might be ostracized for that. But if you clung to a BB because of the keyboard, you would be ostracized because your phone has a keyboard AND can't do what other phones could do. That's what BB needed to address when "modernizing" its devices. So, when someone sarcastically goes, "Oh, cool BlackBerry, too bad it can't do this," you could respond, "Uh, yes it can, jack@ss," and show them.

The point is that maybe BB should stop trying to fit in with the cool kids, especially when there's a group whom it already fits in with. And maybe that group is is an older crowd...that wears suits and spends more time in conferences rooms than coffee shops. This crowd knows its making a compromise on things such as screen size when it wants a phone with a keyboard and its cool with that: just don't make it unnecessarily compromise on a raft of other things as well.

I agree with the part about Samsung. But BlackBerry could do the same thing. Time Shift is a good example of what they could hype. I understand what you're saying about how BlackBerry already has a crowd that likes their products. The only thing is: that crowd is quite small when compared with the "normal" smartphone crowd. The Q10 does a great job at addressing that white collar crowd you are talking about. And the Q10 doesn't look or feel dated either. Yes, the physical keyboard market is getting smaller and smaller but it hasn't hit it's end yet. A track pad has hit it's end especially with the advancements in touchscreen technology. It can only go further.

Posted via CB10

[ajst222]

It will never be better no matter how good it is compared to other OS's because you're hiding part of the screen with your hand like when you're dragging the bubble. A trackpad is way better for text editing in the same way a mouse is.

And that is why I (along with others) have suggested a toggleable virtual track pad for those who want it.

Posted via CB10

[ajst222]

Please link to the message where you explain the downside, and saying it won't work well is 100% conjecture on your part, and no one would force you to use it. There are already soft call, end call and back buttons (and I didn't even ASK for a back button) on the device so all the hard buttons would do would be whatever the soft ones do. Likewise, you can connect a external mouse / keyboard to the PlayBook, and it works at the OS level, in apps, without any special support by the app developers.

I feel that I along with others have driven the point home on the downsides. And you are saying that there are virtual call and end call buttons on the device so you agree it would be redundant to have physical buttons. So why wouldn't it be redundant to have a physical track pad when there is already the bubble and the possibility of a virtual one?

Posted via CB10

[jegs2]

So why wouldn't it be redundant to have a physical track pad when there is already the bubble and the possibility of a virtual one?

I would be content with a virtual track-pad. One of the issues I'd face is that I automatically hit the left phone button when getting a call on my 9930 - no chance of missing the call. Would not be intuitive for me to glance at the screen and swipe in particular direction to answer a call. Heck, my wife's Galaxy Note 2 confuses me to the point I won't use it at all.

[Nine54]

I agree with the part about Samsung. But BlackBerry could do the same thing. Time Shift is a good example of what they could hype. I understand what you're saying about how BlackBerry already has a crowd that likes their products. The only thing is: that crowd is quite small when compared with the "normal" smartphone crowd. The Q10 does a great job at addressing that white collar crowd you are talking about. And the Q10 doesn't look or feel dated either. Yes, the physical keyboard market is getting smaller and smaller but it hasn't hit it's end yet. A track pad has hit it's end especially with the advancements in touchscreen technology. It can only go further.

And the market for Bentley and Rolls Royce cars is small when compared with the normal automobile market. Yet, those companies seem to be doing OK (if the number of both cars I see these days is any indication). The same goes for any product that caters to a more specific need or use case within a broader market.

Unlike cars, though, the challenge with the smartphone market is that the price window difference between the low-end and high-end is relatively small and the way people use--or want to use--their devices doesn't substantially differ from person to person. Just because some people prioritize screen size doesn't mean they'll accept crappy call quality. Or just because a good typing experience is important to some users doesn't mean that web browsing is unimportant. So, it's a race to commoditization--much like the PC industry was. All phones eventually will provide the same functionality more or less based on buying criteria such as cost, battery life, etc.

But, the market is not quite there yet. In the short term, there are opportunities to exploit under-served markets or use cases in order to differentiate your devices. Android and iOS might represent 85% of the smartphone market, but that doesn't mean that, for example, Apple and Samsung are perfectly serving the needs of everyone within that 85%--it just means that no OEMs outside that 85% are serving those needs any better (and probably are serving them worse). There's room for sub-markets within the broader market, which is why some OEMs are focusing on features like camera quality and battery life in order to differentiate their products and attract users who might prioritize those features.

If BlackBerry's goal was to create phones for the "everyman," then parts of its strategy are questionable. Both BlackBerry and Nokia determined that it would be difficult to compete in the Android market with dozens of OEMs using the same OS. However, that's "inward" thinking. Consumers don't care whether BlackBerry and Nokia choose business strategies that let them compete: they care about what their devices can do. The question is how will building products using alternative OS platforms allow BlackBerry and Nokia to serve users' needs better than their competitors. That's unclear right now, and both companies are struggling as a result.

What is clear, though, is that going with alternative OS platforms has put both at a significant competitive disadvantage in terms of third-party app and ecosystem support, which is something the "everyman" user definitely cares about. In addition, it increases the amount of work both companies have to do to maintain feature parity since they cannot leverage others' work (this applies less to Nokia since Windows Phone is a third-party platform, but for all intents and purposes, Nokia's the only relevant WP OEM right now). So, sure, if Google adds Google Now to Android, then any Android OEM will have that as a feature. However, this also means that by leveraging something like Google Now, an OEM like Samsung doesn't have to reinvent the wheel to compete with Apple's Siri. Instead, it can focus on adding value in other areas.

I like BlackBerry 10 and I like my Z10. And on a feature-by-feature basis, I think both arguably do some things better than products based on other platforms. But is the sum of the parts significantly better than competitor offerings? Is there any gotta-have-it feature that overshadows any perceived weaknesses and makes people switch?

If the goal was to serve the "everyman" consumer, then the decision to go with a proprietary platform might have been more viable had BlackBerry released devices with the platform back in 2010...when it acquired QNX. That might not have been feasible, but then BlackBerry should have considered what strategy would be feasible without de-prioritizing time-to-market. Instead, 3 years went by and the hill it had to climb to serve the "everyman" user only got steeper.

What I'm saying is, BlackBerry needs to find some lower-hanging-fruit than the everyman user or find some under-served need within the everyman market that could be waiting to break out. It can target a niche market in order to compete more easily and gain some traction, which will enable it to later cast a wider net later. But, if it can't compete with the market leaders but thinks any niche it could serve is too small, then it should question its purpose in the industry.

[brunolovesbrit]

I don't miss the trackpad at all!


Posted via CB10

[alternator77]

Never mind...

[lorax1284]

Thank you John Chen for being a business leader that also knows when to follow (the wishes of his customers).

[boeingrules]

BlackBerry should definitely not adopt the 'if even a few people want it why not provide it' mindset. That would be a disaster. I for one would hate to see BlackBerry descend into the Samsung-esque habit of spamming the market with hundreds of spin offs trying to squeeze every cent out of their product lines. Just because there are people who want it, doesn't always mean they should develop a product for them.

I can tolerate the belt because it makes at least a bit of sense, even though it's already pushing it for me. But I would be absolutely mortified to see a BB10 Slider.

People say that 'stepping back' is not that big of a deal, but it really is. It might not be immediately logical, but these steps back into BlackBerry's history cannot be good for BB10's image which Chen is already desperately trying to recover.

Posted via CB10

[eggman1987]

Why would a slider be terrible? So many of us and I'm sure even many iSheep would look twice at a brand new, sleek as ****, sexy BB10 slider made from premium materials...

Big screen, and a lovely keyboard when you want to use it.

Posted via CB10

[RyanGermann]

People say that 'stepping back' is not that big of a deal, but it really is. It might not be immediately logical, but these steps back into BlackBerry's history cannot be good for BB10's image which Chen is already desperately trying to recover.

It's a great thing for BlackBerry's image if "stepping away" was a bad idea in the first place.

The assertion that BlackBerry's reputation can possibly suffer 'further harm' by producing some devices with the belt seems misplaced: BlackBerry's reputation was harmed in trying to ape the ecosystems of Android and Apple without first-mover advantage and without literally 10s of billions of disposable cash and the embedded advantages like iTunes or Google's dozens of other services to build upon.

Stepping "back" is the only thing BlackBerry CAN do: find what it does best and do it better than anyone else, and what that is is NOT "full screen devices without hard buttons"... it was the attempt to beat Apple and Google at their own game that was misguided and which John Chen is "undoing" by steering the company in a different direction, one that is responsive to customer requirements. The iPad Mini is a case where Apple tried to defy the market until it became clear they were going to lose significant mindshare and leave 'money on the table' for other (Android) tablet vendors... well run companies DO respond "against their will" to market factors and the pleas of their customer base.

[2c]

hahahahaha he should better go back and sell ketchup.

[DisturbedRocks31]

[Link]

Called it! :P

I expect a cheque in mail anytime BB!

If BlackBerry brings back the trackpad, they'll have to bring back the call and end call buttons with the BB button and the back key... it just looks weird then AND it is a step back. We don't want the Call and the End Call buttons, don't want the BB Key and the Back key..! JUST THE TRACK PAD!

SO, what if they put sensors in between the keys?! As shown in the picture below, the 5 sensors should be able to sense movement up-down and left-right!

You may ask, what about clicking? Well, if the user is covering 4/5 of them, then the G+H keys become the equivalent of the trackpad push button! The frets can be darkened or you can use other technology (that's your job) to blend the sensors in the frets and between the keys..!


Attachment 181284

You can test the same idea, but around the T+Y keys instead of the G+H keys...! Whichever works better, use that!

Do you see anything wrong with this?