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  1. TomJasper's Avatar
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    #101  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    I have no issue with your "thinking". I believe you're engaging in some degree of denial, but you're entitled.
    Denial of what? When ppl have a bad "yesterday" relationship(means one who has bad RIM memories of the past) they move on, that's called reality. When one won't move on and can't deal with the past (daily points out RIM's past) other than harping on it over and over, that's called "denial".

    I'm sure everybody has had a friend (obviously friend is generic,could be anybody) at one time that goes on and on about their past "yesterday" relationship( past negative view of RIM), you meet them at parties sometimes, and boy are they ever a downer,lol.( a simple metaphor that anybody can relate to)

    Making more sense yet?( just explained why I'm not in a state of denial as I was told I was)

    (the above post is what got me an infraction for harrassment,everything in brackets has been added for clarity AFTER the infraction. No place in this post have I mentioned ANY poster, the post is meant as a metaphor)
    Last edited by TomJasper; 01-04-2013 at 09:00 PM. Reason: Everything in brackets added for clarity
  2. TomJasper's Avatar
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    #102  

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    Quote Originally Posted by howarmat View Post
    Tom I suggest you quit while you can. The road you are traveling on is similar to a couple others that have been on this site. Notice the past tense used in the last comment. While its fine to have debate and share enthusiasm, you cannot continue to call out people as you are. Others have just the same right to share their thoughts as you do. So lets just stop and find something better to talk about instead trying to find "labels" to slap on people.
    How about them Leafs, eh. Better?
  3. TomJasper's Avatar
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    #103  

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinnugent View Post
    So, what are you saying? You have prior knowledge of what Kevin M will be doing? And there's to be some sort of censorship of what sort of articles members can link to? This will be interesting.
    No,lol, not at all, didn't you hear the last podcast? Kevin made mention of it.
  4. kevinnugent's Avatar
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    #104  

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    To be honest, the podcasts are so irregular and so far apart that it's hard to even know when they've been released. I subscribe in iTunes but sometimes they don't even show up there.
  5. TomJasper's Avatar
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    #105  

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    Quote Originally Posted by howarmat View Post
    Tom I suggest you quit while you can. The road you are traveling on is similar to a couple others that have been on this site. Notice the past tense used in the last comment. While its fine to have debate and share enthusiasm, you cannot continue to call out people as you are. Others have just the same right to share their thoughts as you do. So lets just stop and find something better to talk about instead trying to find "labels" to slap on people.
    In all seriousness, do you have an issue with myself using "yesterday syndrome" TM in future posts, lets say in a generic sense, as a metaphor of sorts?
  6. TomJasper's Avatar
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    #106  

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinnugent View Post
    To be honest, the podcasts are so irregular and so far apart that it's hard to even know when they've been released. I subscribe in iTunes but sometimes they don't even show up there.
    Maybe ask the MOD for the link?
  7. TomJasper's Avatar
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    #107  

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    But we all make mistakes, and then you get those annoying people that keep reminding you about them and never let you forget it. Over and over again.
    You might as well drop this subject, I just got an "infraction" for "harrassment" from a MOD.
  8. SixStringMadness's Avatar
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    #108  

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    Quote Originally Posted by collinc93 View Post
    I am feeling like some people pointedly miss the part about constructive criticism. Whatever. To each his own....
    as stated above, when so many noobies are those doing the criticizing, its not seen as constructive.... The vets we get and some even spar with, but noobie after noobie, it just gets old and downright frustrating for some
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  9. TomJasper's Avatar
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    #109  

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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStringMadness View Post
    as stated above, when so many noobies are those doing the criticizing, its not seen as constructive.... The vets we get and some even spar with, but noobie after noobie, it just gets old and downright frustrating for some
    Does that mean the "vets" have an in with MOD/S , does time spent here extend ones range of "spar" ing?
    Help me understand what you are saying, seems a bit cryptic.
  10. SixStringMadness's Avatar
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    #110  

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomJasper View Post
    Does that mean the "vets" have an in with MOD/S , does time spent here extend ones range of "spar" ing?
    Help me understand what you are saying, seems a bit cryptic.
    No, no cryptic message here.

    Big difference in criticizing vets and noobs in my view as of late. Vets criticize (usually) in existing threads, where noobs start new ones as I seem to observed (not as a rule, but in most cases, because surely someone will come along and refute that statement).

    My post surely count doesn't reflect it, but I've been here longer than most non-mod active posters (May 2008). The vets who criticize were once BB owners, and kinda have room to be critical, where the noobs who come in being critical just fit a different criteria. Their either perma-banned and starting new accounts, or strait up trolls. Do we really think that these noobs coming in offering their "constructive criticism" have just gone out and purchased a new BB, and are here to tell us how terrible it is?

    Just my simple way of breaking it down....
    Last edited by SixStringMadness; 01-04-2013 at 09:30 PM.
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  11. TomJasper's Avatar
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    #111  

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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStringMadness View Post
    No, no cryptic message here.

    Big difference in criticizing vets and noobs in my view as of late. Vets criticize (usually) in existing threads, where noobs start new ones as I seem to observed (not as a rule, but in most cases, because surely someone will come along and refute that statement).

    My post surely count doesn't reflect it, but I've been here longer than most any non-mod active poster. The vets who criticize were once BB owners, and kinda have room to be critical, where the noobs who come in being critical just fit a different criteria. Their either perma-banned and starting new accounts, or strait up trolls. Do we really think that these noobs coming in offering their "constructive criticism" have just gone out and purchased a new BB, and are here to tell us how terrible it is?

    Just my simple way of breaking it down....
    I suppose I'm a noob then because I don't have 2,000 posts under my belt like some vets,lol,no biggie will be there some day,not sure if that reflects content though,perhaps it's perceived that way.

    You says "vets" have more room to be critical(of RIm) yet that is exactly where my whole thrust of posts was , trying to draw that distinction should not hold in practical mind think. I used as many metaphors as I could because I had no intention of singling out ANY poster individually, it's the "group think" that I was posting to, then I get engaged by "vet/s" who obviously take it personal.

    You know it's kind of ironic and a catch-22 when, as you say "vets" are more critical of RIM, what is the upside to that? You don't think the "group think" that is positive on RIM is turned off by the negative "vet" group think?

    It should NOT be a prerequisite to be negative on RIM to be positive on RIM, "vets"(elders aside).

    Seems I got caught up in the cross hairs.
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    #112  

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    Why can't be be friends...why can't be be friends.....
    Q 10 for the win!
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  13. TomJasper's Avatar
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    #113  

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    There is no war jakie.
    I have nothing personal against any poster, it's totally different from that.

    I just get the distinct impression some "vets" (no one person/s individually) will not be happy with the noobs (myself included) unless/until noobs prescribe to the same group think (vets being around when RIM did bad to them in some way/s).

    Here we are 25 days from launch yet still you can still hear the group think (RIM did bad to them in some way/s), this coming from "vets" (no one person/s individually).

    Yet these are the same "vets" (no one person/s individually) who complain about outside negative media. You think the media does not read Crackberry.com to get a pulse in what direction they will write. It's a self fufilling prophecy if a "vet" (no one person/s individually) keeps bringing up RIM past and yet complains when the media mirrors same.

    I mean what's to lose by putting aside RIM's past and let Jan 30 2013 roll out , certainly can't be pride to lose, can it?







    Quote Originally Posted by jakie55 View Post
    Why can't be be friends...why can't be be friends.....
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    #114  

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomJasper View Post
    I suppose I'm a noob then because I don't have 2,000 posts under my belt like some vets,lol,no biggie will be there some day,not sure if that reflects content though,perhaps it's perceived that way.

    You says "vets" have more room to be critical(of RIm) yet that is exactly where my whole thrust of posts was , trying to draw that distinction should not hold in practical mind think. I used as many metaphors as I could because I had no intention of singling out ANY poster individually, it's the "group think" that I was posting to, then I get engaged by "vet/s" who obviously take it personal.

    You know it's kind of ironic and a catch-22 when, as you say "vets" are more critical of RIM, what is the upside to that? You don't think the "group think" that is positive on RIM is turned off by the negative "vet" group think?

    It should NOT be a prerequisite to be negative on RIM to be positive on RIM, "vets"(elders aside).

    Seems I got caught up in the cross hairs.
    Your original point--that the past is the past--is a reasonable one to make. I don't completely agree with the notion that we should just ignore the past and move on, but I can also understand the frustration of dealing with unrelenting negativity. Trust me, it was much grimmer around here last January than it is now.

    To argue that things are different at RIM now, one first needs to accept a few hard truths about where they've been: 1) the company was driven into the weeds by a dangerous combination of complacency and hubris, 2) that customers have grown increasingly frustrated with RIM's operating system as it's grown long in the tooth and 3) that the PlayBook launch wasn't just flawed, it was a train wreck, and a slow-moving one at that because the dust didn't really settle until close to a year later.

    I agree, this is all ancient history, more or less, but you also need to accept that the vast majority of people don't follow RIM as closely as this community does. They actually DON'T know that anything's changed. And we seem to see threads started almost daily that bemoan that BB10 couldn't possibly be that good and that it's "too little, too late". The approach you imply we should take is to dismiss such sentiments as mindless negativity and urge the user to move on. Personally, I prefer to be less dismissive and acknowledge that while RIM has definitely had some issues to work out, it shows a lot of promise now.

    Absolutely none of what I just said relates to why you got an infraction. You demonstrated a lack of tolerance for points of view that you didn't agree with, and your tone became defensive and patronizing. There are a great many people on CB that I don't agree with for a great many reasons, and I'll defend my points of view vigorously when I feel it's warranted. But you'd be hard pressed to find anyone on this site who would accuse me of insulting them.
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  15. SixStringMadness's Avatar
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    #115  

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomJasper View Post
    I suppose I'm a noob then because I don't have 2,000 posts under my belt like some vets,lol,no biggie will be there some day,not sure if that reflects content though,perhaps it's perceived that way.

    You says "vets" have more room to be critical(of RIm) yet that is exactly where my whole thrust of posts was , trying to draw that distinction should not hold in practical mind think. I used as many metaphors as I could because I had no intention of singling out ANY poster individually, it's the "group think" that I was posting to, then I get engaged by "vet/s" who obviously take it personal.

    You know it's kind of ironic and a catch-22 when, as you say "vets" are more critical of RIM, what is the upside to that? You don't think the "group think" that is positive on RIM is turned off by the negative "vet" group think?

    It should NOT be a prerequisite to be negative on RIM to be positive on RIM, "vets"(elders aside).

    Seems I got caught up in the cross hairs.
    not too sure I got all that, maybe too many metaphors....

    quicky clarification, post count does not qualify noob vs vet.

    Bottom line, there is not a prerequisite to be positive or negative. This should be a place of knowledge sharing. Tips tricks and shortcuts, theme and hybrid OS sharing, BB photo contests, article writing as I used to do for another BB website.....so on and so forth.....

    Vets who are former BB owners, and still contributing CB members defending their current platform have room to be critical. RIM clearly dropped he ball on them. Maybe they just felt forced to switch. Maybe they're a little resentful, because they likely enjoyed the intuitiveness of their old BlackBerrys, but wanted the rich app experience as well. Doesn't mean they don't like the platform, they just like their new one better.

    The trouble is, the new thread button might have well said "New Blog", as it felt as though the forum become a sounding board for both sides hard feelings. Not to be mistaken for trolling. Trolling is another matter all on its own. They are not vets. The average veteran member of the forum accused of trolling is not a troll, they just allowed their emotions to get the best of them, as I have myself on a few occurrence (pre BBX rumors).

    Forum trolls are real, do what they do intentionally, and like anything else evolve as enforcement catches on. Think I'm kidding, read this; wikihow If you don't want trolls on the board, don't feed them. Mods keep us in line, but we can keep the trolls at bay by not giving them the fights they're looking for (like I goofed up a did today, Hey, like I said, they're evolving)
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  16. TomJasper's Avatar
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    #116  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    I don't completely agree with the notion that we should just ignore the past and move on
    I was talking to jakie55
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    #117  

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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStringMadness View Post

    Forum trolls are real, do what they do intentionally, and like anything else evolve as enforcement catches on. Think I'm kidding, read this; wikihow If you don't want trolls on the board, don't feed them. Mods keep us in line, but we can keep the trolls at bay by not giving them the fights they're looking for (like I goofed up a did today, Hey, like I said, they're evolving)
    I hear ya loud and clear. Thanks
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    #118  

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    Quote Originally Posted by collinc93 View Post
    I am feeling like some people pointedly miss the part about constructive criticism. Whatever. To each his own....
    I think some people pointedly ignore the point that constructive criticism needs to include the constructive part too.
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  19. TomJasper's Avatar
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    #119  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post



    You demonstrated a lack of tolerance for points of view that you didn't agree with, and your tone became defensive and patronizing. .
    I disagree with your perspective on the discourse of the conversation in no post did I refer to you individually,you obviously convinced a MOD otherwise, so be it. Do me a favour and put me on ignore or at least don't post to me again in the future, this way my future post/s cannot be misunderstood by yourself or a MOD in any way. Thank you.
    Last edited by TomJasper; 01-04-2013 at 11:16 PM. Reason: Grammar
  20. SixStringMadness's Avatar
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    #120  

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    ...oy vey...
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    #121  

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    Clearly theres points to be made on both sides. Valid points no doubt!
    I never saw anyone go over the edge in this thread, but i'm not a mod.
    We all enjoy this forum for similar reasons, lets continue!
    Sounds like a bit of perlaunch jitteres! A lot of this will be cleared up by Jan 30th
    Go RIM!
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  22. collinc93's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #122  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeevecr View Post
    I think some people pointedly ignore the point that constructive criticism needs to include the constructive part too.
    and that is what is irksome reading the upteenth posts about why RIM will fail (after messing up so bad and still having enough good will, why not allow product release ie BB10 to determine what stance to take going forward? seems logical to me no?
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    Quote Originally Posted by collinc93 View Post
    and that is what is irksome reading the upteenth posts about why RIM will fail (after messing up so bad and still having enough good will, why not allow product release ie BB10 to determine what stance to take going forward? seems logical to me no?
    just don't let it get the best of you, that's all
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  24. TomJasper's Avatar
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    #124  

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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStringMadness View Post
    ...oy vey...
    gornisht helfn
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    #125  

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomJasper View Post
    I disagree with your perspective on the discourse of the conversation in no post did I refer to you individually,you obviously convinced a MOD otherwise, so be it. Do me a favour and put me on ignore or at least don't post to me again in the future, this way my future post/s cannot be misunderstood by yourself or a MOD in any way. Thank you.
    As eager as I am to put this exchange to rest, let me clear up a couple of points here:

    1) I didn't report you. If a mod issued an infraction, it didn't require any "convincing" from me.

    2) I don't think I "misunderstood" you at all. You adopted an offensive tone and it came across as clear and deliberate. To suggest I "misunderstood" is kind of like those fake-apologies where a politician stands up and says "I'm sorry if you were offended by what I said" when he should REALLY be saying "I'm sorry I said it."

    If you're going to adopt an offensive tone and make personal attacks, own it, try to learn from it, and move on. Don't try to assume the moral high ground and claim that your right to self-expression has been stifled in some way.
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