1. RichardHBB's Avatar
    Cast, set the hook, and reel in. That's what just happened to those who posted. Does the word gullible mean anything to you guys or what? LOL
    Yes; I'm sure you're the only one that saw through it. The rest of us are rubes...

    Richard
    11-05-14 05:53 PM
  2. Frehley's Avatar
    I have a friend in the intelligence community and I remember when he said a few years ago(I'm paraphrasing) that basicly the US government does not want the masses to use blackberry. At the time I laughed and I said how are they going to do that? The friend said media. After reading between the lines of this article it seem very true. Former NSA's chief lawyer: BlackBerry's encryption efforts led to its demise | ZDNet

    Posted via CB10
    All I want BACK is BIS, which gave the "non corporate" users the encryption and some sense of security.

    Love the BB10 OS, but just wish that BIS was an option...even a "moderate" additional charge by my carrier/BlackBerry.

    Just sayin'...
    11-05-14 06:10 PM
  3. litig8or98's Avatar
    The absolute last person who would tell you what the "intelligence community" was doing to control the masses, is someone "in the intelligence community". Friend or not.

    I smell a bit of creative licence in this thread.
    kbz1960 and Eumaeus like this.
    11-05-14 06:38 PM
  4. rohetaku's Avatar
    Really interested in this
    Do you have a link to the article?

    Posted via CB10
    11-05-14 07:28 PM
  5. THBW's Avatar
    I think the OP should get credit for high lighting this important issue and we should not ridiculed him. There is a very long and frankly sad history of this sort of government behavior.

    Let's first breakdown the discussion into into key elements. The first question is whether the US government is monitoring the activity of US citizens. The answer is an overwhelming yes, plenty of evidence beyond the revelations of Edward Snowden. If not, why is the NSA and the FBI so concerned with Apple encryption? Are US tech companies complicit in this monitoring? The answer is Yes. The NYT has run a series of articles showing that tech reps and CEOs routinely meet in Washington to ensure easy access to the information of US citizens. BTW, encryption is useless if you give the government the key. Was BlackBerry part of these meetings? No. Hmmm, I wonder why.

    Now, is there any history of the US government either directly or indirectly using its power to further the economic interest of US companies to the disadvantage of others? Yes,I don't think you could build a library big enough to store all that information. We have whole academic departments devoted to this stuff. Is it conceivable that the US government would target BlackBerry given that it is a foreign company and that it wouldn't play nice with the NSA? Yes. Just look at what the US government does to small operators who try to build a private client service in the US. They bankrupt them through legal proceedings (well documented in the NYT, again).

    If you don't think BlackBerry wasn't targeted to some degree, you are living in a tin foil room with a tin foil hat. It is the way things work and it is time for everyone to start facing reality. It isn't pleasant but this is how governments work these days. They no longer trust the people they serve.

    Posted via CB10
    11-05-14 09:10 PM
  6. to boldly go's Avatar
    I knew about the spying / data collection long before Ed Snowden's revelation. The masses are being led by the nose, and for those who dont care, why do you get mad that it is discussed? I didnt buy a blackberry for my first smart phone because i just blindly needed to get a smart phone, i knew nothing about blackberry or any other brand, the ATnT store display Z10 didnt work, Nicole my sales lady told me in no uncertain terms that i did not want a BlackBerry, and i accepted that she probably knew best.

    Thats why i didnt buy a Blackberry.

    My L G was so full of obnoxious spyware that it made me miserable, i only had it because at the time it was my only option for having a phone and access to the internet. I wish i knew enough to insist on the blackberry but you see i got to see first hand the horror of android, at least unrooted ones.

    The media is the culprit, as well as the carriers. How many people belittle Blackberry who've never even touched one, or probably even seen one?

    Before that i saw more about the spyware in computers than phones, your real identity is very important to be revealed, its called search for "heartbeat," anything that helps to positively identify who you are. See on my Blackberry if i am in private browsing mode (most of the time i am on my Playbook), ATnT's website has started telling me to turn it off "for a better website experience."

    People who have their mind open and want to learn if its true will find it so. People who have nothing to hide are not getting the picture here as to why this is going on. I like that it is being discussed. No need for people to get rabid about it. Kidding the tinfoil hatters is fine but dont stifle the discussion or the search for facts.
    si001, THBW and world saviour like this.
    11-05-14 09:50 PM
  7. notafanofyou's Avatar
    I think the OP should get credit for high lighting this important issue and we should not ridiculed him. There is a very long and frankly sad history of this sort of government behavior.

    Let's first breakdown the discussion into into key elements. The first question is whether the US government is monitoring the activity of US citizens. The answer is an overwhelming yes, plenty of evidence beyond the revelations of Edward Snowden. If not, why is the NSA and the FBI so concerned with Apple encryption? Are US tech companies complicit in this monitoring? The answer is Yes. The NYT has run a series of articles showing that tech reps and CEOs routinely meet in Washington to ensure easy access to the information of US citizens. BTW, encryption is useless if you give the government the key. Was BlackBerry part of these meetings? No. Hmmm, I wonder why.

    Now, is there any history of the US government either directly or indirectly using its power to further the economic interest of US companies to the disadvantage of others? Yes,I don't think you could build a library big enough to store all that information. We have whole academic departments devoted to this stuff. Is it conceivable that the US government would target BlackBerry given that it is a foreign company and that it wouldn't play nice with the NSA? Yes. Just look at what the US government does to small operators who try to build a private client service in the US. They bankrupt them through legal proceedings (well documented in the NYT, again).

    If you don't think BlackBerry wasn't targeted to some degree, you are living in a tin foil room with a tin foil hat. It is the way things work and it is time for everyone to start facing reality. It isn't pleasant but this is how governments work these days. They no longer trust the people they serve.

    Posted via CB10
    I'm find it interesting that the nay sayers offer no input other then simply saying "tin foil hat" or " conspiracy theories " etc rather then debating the topic which in of itself is a propaganda tactic . When they dont want to discuss the issue they simply deem it a wild conspiracy theory and pretend it doesnt exist. At the same time it's also ment to defame the messenger and the massage as invalid without providing anything of substance.





    Posted via CB10
    spikesolie likes this.
    11-05-14 11:18 PM
  8. BBrickk's Avatar
    It's true guys. The US wants to track every move of its population, and they can't do that if people use BB devices (and don't tell me if they want access then they will, because If they did get access it would have been all over the news, and as OP stated, media would have fed on that for years).
    11-06-14 01:56 AM
  9. HACandtelecoil's Avatar
    3 quick thoughts on this subject

    1. Elitist BB customers vs stupid mass customers
    Fans who already have the Z10, Z30, Q10 and Passport differ in consumption only by the brand…

    2. Monitoring by the government
    Every government monitored for 3 reasons:
    a. Preserving their own power
    b. Protection against radical political / religious movements
    c. Supporting domestic economic

    3- What does he mean by that?
    No idea
    But I am grateful to live in a prosperous democratic (European) country where I can write about such topics without risk and plenty of room for all sorts of opinions exists
    11-06-14 01:59 AM
  10. iN8ter's Avatar
    I have a friend in the intelligence community and I remember when he said a few years ago(I'm paraphrasing) that basicly the US government does not want the masses to use blackberry. At the time I laughed and I said how are they going to do that? The friend said media. After reading between the lines of this article it seem very true. Former NSA's chief lawyer: BlackBerry's encryption efforts led to its demise | ZDNet

    Posted via CB10
    Blackberry not having a competitive consumer OS led to its demise. Apple devices are well encrypted and guess what? They're thriving even though they've been a thorn in the side of law enforcement due to the encryption. Android will soon join with default encryption in 5.0.

    Windows had encryption built into it since 7 (or was it Vista?) and Governments don't seem to mind.

    They failed because of the consumer side. No one wanted what they were selling. They are still decently reputable in the enterprise. Their users also continue to put the company in a bad light by raving on about stuff consumers don't care about instead of telling others why it should be considered a superior consumer-oriented choice (media, gaming, apps, ecosystem, etc.).

    It's funny. People don't seem to get how they're (basically) endlessly perpetuating the narrative that has hurt this company so much in the minds of consumers.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
    11-06-14 02:41 AM
  11. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    I'm find it interesting that the nay sayers offer no input other then simply saying "tin foil hat" or " conspiracy theories " etc rather then debating the topic which in of itself is a propaganda tactic.
    I recognize you are correct that that that is not a legitimate debate tactic; but, there is no point even acknowledging certain arguments. Not every argument merits a rebuttal (for example, ad hominem, etc.).

    We're on the internet and there will always be some portion of the populace that is absolutely insane and it's not my responsibility to change that nor will working on one or two individuals make a difference.

    "Know when to pick your battles." Those are words of wisdom and signs of emotional maturity. All that matters is that what you believe is fairly innocuous; though, it is pretty anti-American and therefore offensive.
    11-06-14 02:46 AM
  12. ymb's Avatar
    This has got to be true. Things like ecosystems, apps, marketing, you know....what everyone has been asking BB to do since like 08', couldn't possibly be the reason people choose other devices over a BlackBerry. Nope....the government just doesn't want people to use a BlackBerry. That's all that's holding BlackBerry back

    Lol

    Posted via CB10
    The point is if people have been asking BlackBerry for so long to do that why didn't they the answer is the government lol

    Z30STA100-3/10.2.1.3289
    11-06-14 03:01 AM
  13. HACandtelecoil's Avatar
    As for "conspiracy theories" and "anti-american" from my European perspective�

    If a nuclear power plant exploding in Russia or Japan it is of course always a human or technical failure. If the same thing happens in America it can only be a conspiracy of the government with the help of the FED

    That's the price of a free society which no country represents as much as America. People like Bin Laden hated the US IMHO mainly because of the freedom of their society. Politics is of course first used as a justification but that's (again only IMHO!) not the whole truth. Only with an abysmal hatred (or fear?) to a free society is one able to approve the death of thousands of civilians.

    It would be a shame if he still could realize his ideas because (ultraconservative?) politicians now abusing it for their own social ideas�
    11-06-14 03:51 AM
  14. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Actually they landed in Liverpool. It's the only way to explain the residents.

    Posted via CB10
    Damn you Banco!!!!! Coffee all over my screen!!!!!!!


    Sent from my SEXY GORGEOUS AWESOME GOLD 128G iPhone 6
    11-06-14 04:31 AM
  15. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Thanks for the laugh! I needed it today.
    Yah but Banco owes me some perfectly doctored up coffee....I'm serious about my coffee.


    Sent from my SEXY GORGEOUS AWESOME GOLD 128G iPhone 6
    11-06-14 04:39 AM
  16. Banco's Avatar
    Yah but Banco owes me some perfectly doctored up coffee....I'm serious about my coffee.


    Sent from my SEXY GORGEOUS AWESOME GOLD 128G iPhone 6
    I can do tea - is that sufficient compensation? I make a mean cup of tea...

    Posted via CB10
    11-06-14 04:44 AM
  17. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I can do tea - is that sufficient compensation? I make a mean cup of tea...

    Posted via CB10
    With milk and a scone with clotted cream????? You're on!!!!!


    Sent from my SEXY GORGEOUS AWESOME GOLD 128G iPhone 6
    11-06-14 04:44 AM
  18. canadian nick's Avatar
    I would say there is at least a little truth in this.

    In Canada for example, Bell,Rogers and Telus own the media. They produce shows, own the channels, own the service provider, they provide the Internet, the phones and the cell service. These companies know more about you than even Google. Clearly there is a want and need for your information.

    Posted via CB10
    11-06-14 04:48 AM
  19. Banco's Avatar
    With milk and a scone with clotted cream????? You're on!!!!!


    Sent from my SEXY GORGEOUS AWESOME GOLD 128G iPhone 6
    I'll meet you at Fortnums for that one then!

    Posted via CB10
    11-06-14 04:48 AM
  20. MC_A_DOT's Avatar
    The masses are not allowed to use BlackBerry-conspiracy.png
    kbz1960, shaleem and Rello like this.
    11-06-14 05:11 AM
  21. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I'm find it interesting that the nay sayers offer no input other then simply saying "tin foil hat" or " conspiracy theories " etc rather then debating the topic which in of itself is a propaganda tactic . When they dont want to discuss the issue they simply deem it a wild conspiracy theory and pretend it doesnt exist. At the same time it's also ment to defame the messenger and the massage as invalid without providing anything of substance.





    Posted via CB10
    OK. So to the topic. From 2007 to 2014 I bought literally dozens of BlackBerry devices. Nobody ever stopped me. One person questioned me at Verizon as to why I would want a 9370 and I told her to go pound sand and to give me what I wanted. I paid cash and walked out with my 9370.

    Fast forward to 2014. I decided on my own, just my own little self, that BlackBerry's decision to let tumbleweed accumulate in BBW and for me to go to the Amazon Appstore was not a palatable one. Nobody told me not to buy the next BlackBerry. No guy in black, no helicopter hovered over Best Buy when I bought my Note 4 or when I bought my Lumia 1520 or when I bought my iPhone 6. Simply BlackBerry made a decision that I did not appeal to me. That's why I left. As one of the masses, silly me, I chose the product that made my life simpler and that gave me what I wanted.

    And nope....no snoops under my bed, bank account isn't drained, no microchips under my skin, and my TV doesn't have brief intervals of distortion. I remain as I have ever been, far below the radar.

    As one of the masses, quite an average one, I went for the product that offered me what I wanted. Like me, there are millions who also left to get devices that offered what they wanted. Many of those millions used RIM products when they offered something unique, which was world class email and messaging. The problem is that smartphones became about so much more than just messaging. And with the removal of BIS as a focal point in communication, BlackBerry offers an email experience that is no longer so compelling as to justify my loss of the convenience offered by the devices I use.

    Nothing to do with governments or espionage or ET. Everything to do with my personal choice and convenience.

    Sent from my gorgeous sexy white BEAST of a Note 4 ❤
    11-06-14 05:12 AM
  22. MC_A_DOT's Avatar
    OK. So to the topic. From 2007 to 2014 I bought literally dozens of BlackBerry devices. Nobody ever stopped me. One person questioned me at Verizon as to why I would want a 9370 and I told her to go pound sand and to give me what I wanted. I paid cash and walked out with my 9370.

    Fast forward to 2014. I decided on my own, just my own little self, that BlackBerry's decision to let tumbleweed accumulate in BBW and for me to go to the Amazon Appstore was not a palatable one. Nobody told me not to buy the next BlackBerry. No guy in black, no helicopter hovered over Best Buy when I bought my Note 4 or when I bought my Lumia 1520 or when I bought my iPhone 6. Simply BlackBerry made a decision that I did not appeal to me. That's why I left. As one of the masses, silly me, I chose the product that made my life simpler and that gave me what I wanted.

    And nope....no snoops under my bed, bank account isn't drained, no microchips under my skin, and my TV doesn't have brief intervals of distortion. I remain as I have ever been, far below the radar.

    As one of the masses, quite an average one, I went for the product that offered me what I wanted. Like me, there are millions who also left to get devices that offered what they wanted. Many of those millions used RIM products when they offered something unique, which was world class email and messaging. The problem is that smartphones became about so much more than just messaging. And with the removal of BIS as a focal point in communication, BlackBerry offers an email experience that is no longer so compelling as to justify my loss of the convenience offered by the devices I use.

    Nothing to do with governments or espionage or ET. Everything to do with my personal choice and convenience.

    Sent from my gorgeous sexy white BEAST of a Note 4 ❤
    The masses are not allowed to use BlackBerry-game-set-match.jpg
    shaleem likes this.
    11-06-14 05:18 AM
  23. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Oh - and BB10 does not use the NOC.
    I'm pretty sure this is not entirely true. It definitely doesn't use it the way BlackBerry OS did for email, but I thought there were specific services it utilized it for, such as when you set up an email in the first place, BBM, App World and other services.

    BB's not utilized in a BES enviroment have no more security than any other smartphone.
    Agree, though I'm waiting for someone to misconstrue that as "OMG - BlackBerry 10 devices are insecure" ;-) vs. the reality of "For most users, most devices are secure enough provided you take the appropriate precautions".
    11-06-14 05:44 AM
  24. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Just to put time and observations in perspective :
    "On July 13, 2005, Baker was appointed by President George W. Bush to be Assistant Secretary (acting as Under Secretary-equivalent) for Policy for the United States Department of Homeland Security."
    BlackBerry pioneered the same business model that Google and Apple are doing now
    So I believe he's referring to the early ages ...
    I can't refrain thinking there a part of truth in this statement. Sure not the whole story though.
    Yet, BIS death (there were factual, psychological and good reasons for that) has always questioned me. Why the NOC hasn't been updated (so, my mention of BIS is just for time reference, not to one or other specific function) to add a (more/optional) secure layer for Joes ? Did they already plan another usage (IoT? It was really early times) ? I've not heard much about a massive dismantling either ... I remain puzzled.

    To refer to OP, MHO is that, somehow, there might have been a pressure to constrain the scope of "unbreakable" communications where they were perceived as legit; enterprises and gov agencies.

    P.S: I've tried to write as much conditional as possible, hope y'all get this as a guess, nothing I could assert as a truth. And - I repeat - it would be only a partial reason of the demise. So take your guns down, thanks
    11-06-14 06:01 AM
  25. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Agree, though I'm waiting for someone to misconstrue that as "OMG - BlackBerry 10 devices are insecure" ;-) vs. the reality of "For most users, most devices are secure enough provided you take the appropriate precautions".
    (re: BB's not utilized in a BES enviroment have no more security than any other smartphone.)
    Except they can't be rooted. That's quite a difference, if you ask me (but we'll go way OT).
    11-06-14 06:03 AM
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