1. anon(4141156)'s Avatar
    We all know this, trends com and go and come again. What once was big is now small, only to grow again.
    Apple was the bomb before, then they kicked out Jobs, and they tanked. They came back under his guidance, and now where are they now that he is gone.......

    iPhone sinks as Android seizes market share | Fox News

    Microsoft could do no wrong in the 90's and even though they still dominate in the desktop market, there public perception is horrible. Most of the people I know hate Micorsoft and anything that they touch.

    BlackBerry invented the smartphone, and anyone that was anyone had a BlackBerry. Right now Android is dominating the market, both in specs, UI, hardware, creativity, everything! Now I don't want to hear about how specs really don't matter and that BB10is better, blah blah blah. The lay person, which is the vast majority of the market believes this, and when they walk in to a store for an upgrade they see specs, and apps and base there purchase on that. I am all in for BB, I have almost 40 lines, BESX, and am upgrading to BES10 when I feel 100% confident that BB is in it for the long haul. I love the security, I love the qwerty, peak and flow are just plain awesome!!! But I am not the norm, and most CB readers are not either, truly very few people on any of the Talk Mobile sites will every change from the die hard fan that they currently are. So BB needs to blow the doors off the people that don't visit any of these sites and walk in to the store and buy a new phone in 20 minutes with very little if any research. They need the WOW factor!!!

    Either that, or they just need to wait around for it to be there turn again. Its really up to them.
    08-08-13 11:48 AM
  2. LROBLES46's Avatar
    WOW factor = marketing worldwide
    08-08-13 11:56 AM
  3. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    It's not always cyclical. Every company story is different. Maybe they can rebound (I hope they do) but sometimes things just come to an end. For the 1 person saying how Apple made a comeback another says Palm didn't. What happened to them in the past has 0 impact on Blackberry because there are some many different internal and external factors that lead to the rise and fall of a company and sometimes it's just timing that can make all the difference. Think about it..... when Apple made a turnaround, what were the main competing products? What was the biggest iPod competitor prior to it being invented? What touchscreen device was good when the iPhone came out? What tablet was highly usable when the iPad came out? Nothing worth noting. But when Palm tried to make a turn with webOS there was Android and iPhone. 2 growing platforms from companies with enormous resources and not to mention Blackberry was still doing well. So while I hope it's cyclical, I can't be naive to the fact that circumstances are different and sometimes good things must come to an end. Let's just hope not.
    ccbs likes this.
    08-08-13 12:00 PM
  4. FFR's Avatar
    That is not true for the US market.

    "Signs of US Android net user decline"
    Published on August 8th, 2013

    http://www.asymco.com/2013/08/08/and...-user-decline/
    08-08-13 12:04 PM
  5. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Remains to be seen what happens.

    They have one of four outcomes I think

    1. They get bought
    2. They continue to downsize to a specific smaller niche
    3. They make BlackBerry 10 or 11 a success and start to grow
    4. They eventually can't continue and close

    Ranked in what I think is the order of liklihood. 1 and 2 far more likely than 3 and 4 IMO

    Posted via CB10
    Savior4Life likes this.
    08-08-13 12:04 PM
  6. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    That is not true for the US market.

    "Signs of US Android net user decline"
    Published on August 8th, 2013

    http://www.asymco.com/2013/08/08/and...-user-decline/
    This surprised me.
    08-08-13 12:07 PM
  7. anon(4141156)'s Avatar
    I never said every company completes a turn around. One big difference between Palm and BB is BB already has a 70 million+ following and billions in the bank. Circumstances are different, but Apple has become stagnant, and Android to me doesn't appear to be a long term public darling. BB has a good foundation to build on. I am reminded about the story of DeWalt. When Black & Decker studied names for a new commercial line, DeWalt's name was still known to be solid, even though they owned a very small market share. Look at what with building solid products, with great performance, wrapped in an atractive package can do when a name people still recognized can do. Sure millions of people when asked would say the BB is not what it was, but if they show them what they currently are, and where they are going, BB could come back quick!
    earlym and damien kupuku like this.
    08-08-13 12:13 PM
  8. BBThemes's Avatar
    So BB needs to blow the doors off the people that don't visit any of these sites and walk in to the store and buy a new phone in 20 minutes with very little if any research. They need the WOW factor!!!
    I`m not disagreeing with you, but BB10 has been out for 6 months, feels kinda late to enact that idea with BB10, as many many people will of had their first impressions already
    scorpiodsu likes this.
    08-08-13 12:13 PM
  9. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    I never said every company completes a turn around. One big difference between Palm and BB is BB already has a 70 million+ following and billions in the bank. Circumstances are different, but Apple has become stagnant, and Android to me doesn't appear to be a long term public darling. BB has a good foundation to build on. I am reminded about the story of DeWalt. When Black & Decker studied names for a new commercial line, DeWalt's name was still known to be solid, even though they owned a very small market share. Look at what with building solid products, with great performance, wrapped in an atractive package can do when a name people still recognized can do. Sure millions of people when asked would say the BB is not what it was, but if they show them what they currently are, and where they are going, BB could come back quick!
    Yes I know you didn't say every market and I was just emphasizng. Markets in general are cyclical but the companies themselves don't always just go up and down and I think we agree there. But when you say "I just hope BB can hold out until it is their turn again", that assumes they get another turn. And my point was companies don't always get another turn. Sometimes it never comes back around.

    And yes there's a big difference between blackberry and Palm. Just like there's a big difference between blackberry and Apple. So again, my point is don't use other companies as an example because what happened to them does not matter. Anyone can make an argument either way based on another company but those comparisons don't matter. But I will say that Blackberry is faced with more market challenges similar to Palm then what Apple was facing. And there's no denying that. But again, what happened to those companies means squat. Apple made a comeback. So what? Has zilch to do with blackberry.
    08-08-13 12:20 PM
  10. anon(4141156)'s Avatar
    I only use other companies as examples because that is exaclty what they are.....examples. I guess if you are able to succeed without using others as succesful examples, good on you!
    Lets just see if Apple can prove they can suceed without Jobs, history says otherwise.
    08-08-13 12:27 PM
  11. BBThemes's Avatar
    history says otherwise.
    As this is a BlackBerry forum, what does BlackBerrys history tell us about them? jus sayin lol
    pineappleqwer and scorpiodsu like this.
    08-08-13 12:31 PM
  12. anon(4141156)'s Avatar
    Broken promises, missed deadlines, and what seems to be a philosophy of only needed to play catch up, not get ahead.
    Savior4Life likes this.
    08-08-13 12:35 PM
  13. ccbs's Avatar
    Broken promises, missed deadlines, and what seems to be a philosophy of only needed to play catch up, not get ahead.
    Wow, truer words have not been heard here in crackberry.
    Savior4Life likes this.
    08-08-13 12:42 PM
  14. dc9super80's Avatar
    Apple is not tanking. They have the highest market cap in the world, they are extremely profitable, albeit the profit margin has been shrinking. But profit margin shrinking and a company tanking are two very different things. Their market share is less, because the market is growing faster than they can. They still sell more iPhones than before. Apple for what�s worth is doing just fine for now. That can change in the future, but for now they are doing well.

    Apple came back and revolutionised 3 product categories. Is BB able to do that? That is what they may have to do to "have their turn again". But to come in with a damaged name, with lackluster (when compared to some flagships) devices in a pretty mature market is not the best thing they could have done.

    P.S. Apple in my opinion also has relatively lackluster devices in terms of specs but they have major brand recognition and offer a pretty reliable service that people have come to trust, so BB cannot be compared to them.
    08-08-13 01:37 PM
  15. pineappleqwer's Avatar
    That is not true for the US market.

    "Signs of US Android net user decline"
    Published on August 8th, 2013

    Signs of US Android net user decline | asymco
    IF you read what you linked to is just shows that the US market is near full saturation. As such Android's rate of growth is slowing down, they still control well over 52% of the US market. Leaving less then 50% for apple, windows, and the small <1% of blackberry users.

    It may not be an a huge rate of growth but its better then the 15 months of negative rate of growth since jan 2012.
    08-08-13 01:40 PM
  16. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    IF you read what you linked to is just shows that the US market is near full saturation.
    I don't know if it's at "saturation" yet. In the last year, 32 million more Americans became new smartphone owners. Still sounds like the market is growing to me.
    08-08-13 01:50 PM
  17. m1kr0's Avatar
    Here today, gone tomorrow. Nothing is guaranteed to be everlasting especially when we talk tech. It's up to the fast adapters to stay ahead of the rat race. Lets see how resilient BB is... and how tuned-in.
    scorpiodsu and damien kupuku like this.
    08-08-13 01:51 PM
  18. FFR's Avatar
    IF you read what you linked to is just shows that the US market is near full saturation. As such Android's rate of growth is slowing down, they still control well over 52% of the US market. Leaving less then 50% for apple, windows, and the small <1% of blackberry users.

    It may not be an a huge rate of growth but its better then the 15 months of negative rate of growth since jan 2012.
    From 73.88 million to 73.84 android devices is a Decline.

    First two paragraphs of the article :

    "ComScore�s latest survey for US smartphone users showed that Android had 52% share of about 142 million users. That amounts to 73.84 million Android devices in use.

    ComScore�s previous such survey showed that Android had 52.4% of about 141 million users. This amounts to 73.88 million Android devices in use. It also means that Android usage in the US went down for the first time. "
    08-08-13 01:52 PM
  19. pineappleqwer's Avatar
    The difference is surely within a margin of error so it’s not something to declare definitively, but the pattern of Android “peaking” has been evident for some time.

    Above from the article.

    Note this is all from the US market share.

    Globally android is around 80%.

    Also at RubberChicken78: Smartphones Continue to Gain Share as US Mobile Usage Plateaus - eMarketer

    the rate of new owners in the US market alone is dropping to 1% levels.
    08-08-13 02:09 PM
  20. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    I only use other companies as examples because that is exaclty what they are.....examples. I guess if you are able to succeed without using others as succesful examples, good on you!
    Lets just see if Apple can prove they can suceed without Jobs, history says otherwise.
    Yeah but when I used the example of Palm, you were quick to dispute why it's not the same. And at the end of the day, that's my only point.
    08-08-13 02:22 PM
  21. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    Apple came back and revolutionised 3 product categories. Is BB able to do that? That is what they may have to do to "have their turn again". But to come in with a damaged name, with lackluster (when compared to some flagships) devices in a pretty mature market is not the best thing they could have done.
    This is exactly the point. Apple didn't just bounce back because "their time game back around". They did something that no one else did better. They had to initiate their own turn around. It's not something that just automatically comes for any company. In order for blackberry to do so, they have to be the catalyst of their own turnaround by introducing new products, services and devices that are just as good and in some cases, better than the competition. That's how companies turn around, not just because the market is cyclical.
    dc9super80 likes this.
    08-08-13 02:25 PM
  22. FR33MAN's Avatar
    I think there will be a boost in sales with 10.2 update especially with toast notification. They have to advertise this like hammer style especially in the USA.

    Posted via CB10
    08-08-13 02:31 PM
  23. kamlesh bhambhwani's Avatar
    The end is near and BlackBerry is just fighting a losing battle here,every app maker of any product is considering making apps for Windows as their third option and not BlackBerry, so it's just a matter of time if things don't turn around soon. I love my BlackBerry but if it doesn't deliver the goods I can't be emotional and hang on to it for long. Will have to move on eventually.

    Posted via CB10
    Savior4Life likes this.
    08-08-13 02:38 PM
  24. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Also at RubberChicken78: Smartphones Continue to Gain Share as US Mobile Usage Plateaus - eMarketer

    the rate of new owners in the US market alone is dropping to 1% levels.
    This is someone's forecast for the future, which is fine. If you look at actual month to month ComScore data, the number of US smartphone users has grown every month in the US for the last year. So it hasn't plateaued yet. June last year, only 110 million Americans had smartphones. The data released yesterday, it had risen to 142 million.
    08-08-13 02:39 PM
  25. anon(4141156)'s Avatar
    This is exactly the point. Apple didn't just bounce back because "their time game back around". They did something that no one else did better. They had to initiate their own turn around. It's not something that just automatically comes for any company.
    You are right, I really didn't mean to imply that BB had to just wait it out. They do need to innovate, and thats what I meant when I said
    "So BB needs to blow the doors off the people that don't visit any of these sites and walk in to the store and buy a new phone in 20 minutes with very little if any research. They need the WOW factor!!!"
    Thor keeps talking about mobile computing, so i do wonder what that means to BB. Apple (with Jobs) basically invented the MP3, the touch screen phone, and the tablet. They didn't create the market, they ARE the market, much like Levi IS the denim pant market. For BB to get its next turn in the cyclical market they need to do something like that. I have my hopes as for what Thor is talking about, but only time will tell.

    THANKS EVERYONE FOR THE COMMENTS!!
    scorpiodsu likes this.
    08-08-13 02:49 PM
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