[EdY]

The Globe and Mail "Insider" article referenced recently on CB was somewhat eye-opening. Market has spoken but the problem seems to be:

1. too large a company with problems in focus/direction due to conflicting visions by leaders, causing delays and ultimately competing resources devoted within BB to achieve them

2. products increasingly delayed, loss of key people who were responsible in enforcing deadlines and lax attitude development

3. loss of carrier support, therefore product placement, therefore consumer awareness, causing a vicious circle

Ultimate BB became a snow plow instead of a spear... Trying to be too many things to too many people, and too late.

QNX was the right way to go. Ultimately I believe BB will come back stronger but it needs a visionary leader who can execute, on time, and pushing like a spear.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Crackberry Tapatalk Forum app

[jic999]

So True, why when I show the Z10 and Q10 when I excite them with my Storymaker vidos they say
" where is Blackberry advertising "
I like this phone !
Then they go home and hear all the bad media trashing of the BlackBerry

Posted via CB10

[jic999]

Really love the Windows surface tablet vs iPad AD

Posted via CB10

[anon(5828343)]

I'm one who believes BlackBerry didn't give BlackBerry 10 a chance. Did they market it? Sort of. Do they have a negative perception right now? Absolutely. Do they have a great product? Yes.

One thing I kept hearing is that it takes someone using the device to appreciate it. Yet that is something most people never had the chance to do. Where was the commercial with someone bragging about the Z10 keyboard? Or showing off the Time Shift feature of the camera? How about someone showing how they can interact with Facebook or Twitter without having to open up the apps? Or using BlackBerry Protect to lock and find their phone? Or using BBM Groups as a family calendar, or shopping list?

Samsung and iPhone don't require people to use their devices in order to successfully sell them. Consumers are just willing to take a chance with a $650+ investment when those brands are behind them. So what's the difference with BBRY?

One thing I have heard is how sales people found BB10 "cumbersome" to demonstrate and rather than being intuitive, BB10 required demos and training before consumers could figure it out. Sadly, people nowadays are not willing to invest the time or effort in having to learn how to use a device like a smartphone (heck, how many devices have you bought recently that still included a product manual in the box? Most products today only contain a very basic "quick start guide". The point is that people aren't willing to read a book just to operate a device. BB10 was considered by many to be far too complicated for the average consumer).

[canuckvoip]

Samsung and iPhone don't require people to use their devices in order to successfully sell them. Consumers are just willing to take a chance with a $650+ investment when those brands are behind them. So what's the difference with BBRY?

One thing I have heard is how sales people found BB10 "cumbersome" to demonstrate and rather than being intuitive, BB10 required demos and training before consumers could figure it out. Sadly, people nowadays are not willing to invest the time or effort in having to learn how to use a device like a smartphone (heck, how many devices have you bought recently that still included a product manual in the box? Most products today only contain a very basic "quick start guide". The point is that people aren't willing to read a book just to operate a device. BB10 was considered by many to be far too complicated for the average consumer).

You know what I find cumbersome?
Telling the iPhone users in my office how to kill apps that are still in the background (usually 20 or so) because "my phone is running slow/lousy".
Cumbersome is double clicking the ancient home button and pushing the trashcan icon on the dancing apps one by one.
Now, iOS7 has "taken" the BETTER idea from BB10/Playbook/WebOS, and made a better experience for a user by letting them swipe away a running app. Duh.
Did you ever get the feeling that Apple is starting to train people to get away from the ancient home button?
If not, hopefully you do now.
Buttons fail over time. Swiping lasts longer.

[GadgetTravel]

You know what I find cumbersome?
Telling the iPhone users in my office how to kill apps that are still in the background (usually 20 or so) because "my phone is running slow/lousy".
Cumbersome is double clicking the ancient home button and pushing the trashcan icon on the dancing apps one by one.
Now, iOS7 has "taken" the BETTER idea from BB10/Playbook/WebOS, and made a better experience for a user by letting them swipe away a running app. Duh.
Did you ever get the feeling that Apple is starting to train people to get away from the ancient home button?
If not, hopefully you do now.
Buttons fail over time. Swiping lasts longer.

Odd. I have been using an iphone since the 3G and have been unaware of that problem.

Posted via CB10

[AWB70]

In the world of mobile devices image is king. The problem with a lot of people who use this board is they know far too much and make a decision to buy the hardware based on it's merits. We are already sold I have been a Blackberry user for that long now I don't know which phone is best based on the one I have is exactly what I want. I find BB10 very intuitive, I don't see any of the problems I often read about in this forum. Poor battery, re-boots etc and never have even when I got the Z10 on release day. I strongly suspect that a lot of it is brought on by poorly rushed/coded apps causing issues with the OS. Not being an app man, other than the essentials is probably why I don't have that many issues.

Ultimately I think the OS is rock solid but I only have an ipod to compare it too which I think feels quite dated. I don't even know what the fuss was about ios7, it changed very little. I did notice however that some things had been stolen from Blackberry, so even Apple recognise on a lot of things that BB was ahead of the game.

I have the same issue with Linux, IMO it's a far more stabler, secure OS with the same issues as BB of big companies not releasing software. Linux has tried the same approach as BB of rather than get these companies on board to make native software, making a windows virtual machine so you can run windows software with different levels of success. Same as sideloading Android stuff but on most occasions I can get away with a native bit of software.
I have been trying windows 7 lately purely because my daughter will be going to big school next year and she needs to be more familiar with it and I was shocked at how much of a PITA it is. Installing Linux takes about an hour to have a fully functioning PC. I think I'm in my third day now and I'm still installing drivers and updates in W7.
Back to the post though, I personally prefer BB10 and Linux Ubuntu as my OS through by educating myself of the difference. The difference is from a stability and security POV. I couldn't and no longer try and explain this to people. Because having both, unless you're a bit techy is just not cool.

Back to advertising, although BB may have got its message out to millions it was the wrong message and to the wrong people. It needed to be associated with cooler people. Strange but true! Alicia Keys? Who? exactly. Don't know how big she is in Canada at the MO but over in the UK I don't think many people would care if her ar*e hole healed up. The image BB have in the UK right now is works phone and Chavs. The reason for the Chav bit is when the riots were on and the UK government asked BB to help by releasing messages and sort of refused, or said they couldn't technically they immediately became cool for a while to the younger generation. Ironically when uprisings were started in libya etc the UK government were praising the power of social media. When BBM was used for the same thing the government condemned it. That's governments for you.

So, what I'm trying to say is if BB want to sell the phones in the UK there is no point making a big deal over the hardware, security or ecosystem because there is only a small minority of people who actually care about it. The large portion of people who BB wanted to attract only care about two things, apps and image. BB never got a hold of either. In fact the closest they came was a picture of the Beckhams lad with a Z10. They should have has one in the hands of David and Victoria as well and plastered that all over UK TV. They were also destroyed in the Media it's fair to say. BB's problems were over shadowed by any advertising campaign they tried. Being in trouble was main stream prime time news, the new OS wasn't.

Just my pennies worth.

[Wiki Cydia]

You know what I find cumbersome?
Telling the iPhone users in my office how to kill apps that are still in the background (usually 20 or so) because "my phone is running slow/lousy".

You could just stop doing it. Who knows? Maybe they'll get frustrated enough to try something else. At the same time, if you find yourself having to repeat this often, it suggests the people in your office aren't all that swift, regardless of what phone they use. Just saying.

Now, iOS7 has "taken" the BETTER idea from BB10/Playbook/WebOS, and made a better experience for a user by letting them swipe away a running app. Duh.

True, though I think you mean WebOS/PlayBook/BB10, since of those OSs you mentioned, WebOS came first. Of course, if we're going to play the who-copied-who game, we could point to the fact that BBRY didn't offer any touchscreen devices before the iPhone, yet now even their physical QWERTY devices have touchscreens.

Did you ever get the feeling that Apple is starting to train people to get away from the ancient home button?
If not, hopefully you do now.

Good point. I mean, nothing's happened recently to suggest otherwise. Oh wait, it has. As for buttons being ancient, Curve, Bold and Q10 owners don't find them ancient at all.

Buttons fail over time. Swiping lasts longer.

It's ironic to have someone complain about the reliability of buttons on a BBRY forum. I guess all those Curve, Bold and Q10 owners better prepare themselves for multiple failures, since those devices have a lot of buttons.

[canuckvoip]

You could just stop doing it. Who knows? Maybe they'll get frustrated enough to try something else. At the same time, if you find yourself having to repeat this often, it suggests the people in your office aren't all that swift, regardless of what phone they use. Just saying.



True, though I think you mean WebOS/PlayBook/BB10, since of those OSs you mentioned, WebOS came first. Of course, if we're going to play the who-copied-who game, we could point to the fact that BBRY didn't offer any touchscreen devices before the iPhone, yet now even their physical QWERTY devices have touchscreens.



Good point. I mean, nothing's happened recently to suggest otherwise. Oh wait, it has. As for buttons being ancient, Curve, Bold and Q10 owners don't find them ancient at all.



It's ironic to have someone complain about the reliability of buttons on a BBRY forum. I guess all those Curve, Bold and Q10 owners better prepare themselves for multiple failures, since those devices have a lot of buttons.

Our opinions differ, that's OK isn't it?

[Wiki Cydia]

Our opinions differ, that's OK isn't it?

The only opinion I offered was regarding your co-workers. The other things I wrote (WebOS came before PlayBook and BB10; no touchscreen BB devices before the iPhone; fingerprint scanner in the iOS home button; Curve, Bold and Q10 devices have lots of buttons and their owners don't find those buttons ancient) aren't opinions. Instead, they're well-known facts that weaken the evidence you use to form your opinion. I also applied the logic you used to belittle the iOS home button to buttons generally, which makes your whole argument seem odd in light of the preferences of many CBers.

[canuckvoip]

The only opinion I offered was regarding your co-workers. The other things I wrote (WebOS came before PlayBook and BB10; no touchscreen BB devices before the iPhone; fingerprint scanner in the iOS home button; Curve, Bold and Q10 devices have lots of buttons and their owners don't find those buttons ancient) aren't opinions. Instead, they're well-known facts that weaken the evidence you use to form your opinion. I also applied the logic you used to belittle the iOS home button to buttons generally, which makes your whole argument seem odd in light of the preferences of many CBers.

Good Lord buddy... Get over yourself. Fine.. you're right about everything, as usual... OK?
:>)

[xandermac]

They had the largest captive audience on the planet during the Super Bowl, the one time when people actually pay attention to commercials and look what they did.


Sent from my 4s using TapaTalk

[Hup55]

In many posts and threads right now I'm seeing the same thing pop up time and again, particularly from users of other platforms...

'The market has spoken and the (Z10/Q10/Q5/Z30 - in other words BB10) has been rejected by the market'.

I can understand this, in one way, particularly with regard to the abysmal sales figures x their own apparent need to troll a BlackBerry website but, it is fair to say that even us CB loyalists are pretty hacked off with the sales figures too (we just don't rub our own faces in it!)

BUT. Here's the thing.

The market hasn't 'spoken' on BB10. The market has never had the chance to 'speak' on BB10 because the vast majority of people outside of our little bubble here have absolutely no idea BB10 exists.

Why? Because no one ever told them it did!

When I look at the BB10 marketing effort since February, as someone who specialises and works in that very subject every day, I want to weep. It's been utterly pathetic. Painfully so.

It's as if the company honestly thought that the phones would sell themselves and, thinking back to TH's 'sell like hell' I honestly think that was the limit of his marketing budget. Get the phone out there, get the BB loyalists to upgrade and by a factor of multiplication that was dreamed up at some meeting or other they wouldn't have to spend all those disgusting marketing dollars. The very attitude of an engineer.

Unlucky. The world doesn't work like that.

Don't get me wrong. The phones do sell themselves when we show them to others. There's threads here, there and everywhere about how BB10 knocks 10 bells out of the opposition. I can name umpteen examples of the 'BB10 stare' (where users of other platforms look back at their phones in disbelief that their phone doesn't do what the new BLACKBERRY does. Then they say, in that slightly interested but not willing to commit themselves voice 'so, is that the new BlackBerry?)

There just could never have been enough of us without the slightest smidgen of help. And that should have come from the utterly useless marketing department who have left us in a situation where I have what I consider to be the best phone I have ever owned, which answered SO many iphone and Android users requirements and complaints about their OS, never mind the joy BB owners have had of going to BB10 from BB7, made by a company in the crap. ANd only in the crap for one reason only - they didn't tell anyone it was happening.

So, back to my original point. Has the market spoken? No.

Don't ever believe that for a second because the market has NO IDEA the Z10, Q10, Q5 or Z30 exists.

To make such a claim you would have to run all 4 platforms ads in the same place at the same time with the same spend. If that were the case I think you'd find BB10 doing a whole load better than it is now but I'd settle for anything!

Anything at all that let the public of all our countries know it actually exists!

BlackBerry 10 - the wonderful secret your friends must never know....

http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=855000

I couldn't agree more. As I posted in a thread on someone I ran into from L.A had no clue BlackBerry even had new phones or an OS.

Posted via CB10

[Xopher]

Samsung and iPhone don't require people to use their devices in order to successfully sell them. Consumers are just willing to take a chance with a $650+ investment when those brands are behind them. So what's the difference with BBRY?

One thing I have heard is how sales people found BB10 "cumbersome" to demonstrate and rather than being intuitive, BB10 required demos and training before consumers could figure it out. Sadly, people nowadays are not willing to invest the time or effort in having to learn how to use a device like a smartphone (heck, how many devices have you bought recently that still included a product manual in the box? Most products today only contain a very basic "quick start guide". The point is that people aren't willing to read a book just to operate a device. BB10 was considered by many to be far too complicated for the average consumer).

That's partially true. A person doesn't just walk into a store, not knowing anything about an iPhone or Samsung, pick it up and open their wallet.

They's seen commercials that tell them how simple the iPhone is to use, and how the camera and music systems fit into their lives. They've seen the gimmicky videos about Samsung that make the devices look fun to use. They walk into a store and see ads for them, and sales reps who guide them towards these devices. The market perception is overpoweringly towards Samsung and iPhone right now. A person who never knew about smartphones ends up walking out of the store with one because of all the different things that built up that sale.

When you look at BlackBerry 10, it is very intuitive. Maybe not to someone who has been using an iPhone for years, but the flow is very easy to use. Consumers pretty much never knew anything about BlackBerry 10 when they walked into the store. There weren't any advertising banners to catch their eye. Sales reps hadn't handled the device for more than a couple hours during a quick training class. If they were used to an iPhone or Android, they probably even went into using the device with expectations that they had built up from using those. The phones ended up in the back of the store, unmarked, uncharged, with some even behind the counter. Customers coming to ask for the Z10 were guided towards other devices.

Market perception is much more than just ads. It has to do with properly training people, getting sales people excited about the product, making sure the demos you are showing are ones that are easy to show, and can be made to be personal to the consumer. Combine that with smart marketing that targets consumers and you start to build up interest. That way, when someone walks into a store, there is not as much negativity towards a product they don't even know about.

A perfect example is Facebook. On an Android device, you get a notification. Swipe down the notification bar and clicking on the Facebook notification opens the Facebook app. Sometimes it opens to the new notification. Other times to your timeline. No matter where it opens to, you still have to wait for the application to fully open. On BlackBerry 10, the notification is in the Hub, You can read it, view photos, and even like, comment, and respond without ever opening the Facebook app. The same goes for Twitter, LinkedIn, FourSquare, BBM, and SMS. All easily accessible without ever opening an application. We all pretty much know it, because we're on here and read about it every day. That small ability - to have access to socialize all in one place - that would have been a good message to target consumers with. The Hub could make perfect sense to someone who lives on Twitter, Facebook ,and SMS all day. With 10.2 toast messages, and being able to respond right from the drop-down message, without even opening the Hub would even add to that. It's something that can be portrayed to consumers to make it personal to them. It's an activity that sales people should be showing off. The only thing BlackBerry ever showed was that you can swipe up from the bottom to get to your inbox. They never showed how it would fit into consumers' lives.

I still believe that the market perception is there because BlackBerry never worked on changing it. That is something that should have started back in January. Hints. Teasers. It's coming. We're back. Better than ever with something brand new.

[bigglybobblyboo]

'So, what I'm trying to say is if BB want to sell the phones in the UK there is no point making a big deal over the hardware, security or ecosystem because there is only a small minority of people who actually care about it.'

Spot on. All those on here who go on about how specs make such a difference to the sale...

Nope. The average person in the street doesn't care, or know. They just want the brightest, the fastest, the quickest. They don't even LOOK at the quad core kerthingummy.

They want what they feel is cool right now, driven by the marketing message. And at the minute, that's Android. And that, in itself, is a reaction to iPhone. iPhone may seem cool in the numbers they are shipping but Apples market share worldwide has been decimated by Android, primarily driven by Samsung.

Now, what if Samsung get too big for their boots and go with their own OS? That could be fun!

What BlackBerry should have done with BB10 IMHO is make it a naughty secret, which, ironically, is where it is going by default....!

[bigglybobblyboo]

http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=855000

I couldn't agree more. As I posted in a thread on someone I ran into from L.A had no clue BlackBerry even had new phones or an OS.

Posted via CB10

Absolutely. You would not believe the amount of people in the UK that I have showed the phone to and they've gone 'What? There's a touch screen BlackBerry? Really? Wow!'

[bradu1]

Absolutely. You would not believe the amount of people in the UK that I have showed the phone to and they've gone 'What? There's a touch screen BlackBerry? Really? Wow!'

I honestly can't believe anyone would even be arguing against this. I get it all the time. I was just told recently that someone would not buy a BlackBerry because of the tiny little screen. Then I showed them how my Z dwarfed their iPhone screen. They surely didn't know about the new bb's.

As much as I love bb, their marketing has sucked. The super bowl commercial you hardly saw the phone. The newest commercials I've seen has been the Q10 commercial where the guy is planning his second honeymoon. Showed a little of what the phone can do, but it was the q, not really a form factor that most would even stop long enough to watch the commercial. Next round, they need to show the Z30, show its size, and show what it DOES. No storyline about middle aged people required.

Posted via CB10

[GadgetTravel]

'So, what I'm trying to say is if BB want to sell the phones in the UK there is no point making a big deal over the hardware, security or ecosystem because there is only a small minority of people who actually care about it.'

Spot on. All those on here who go on about how specs make such a difference to the sale...

Nope. The average person in the street doesn't care, or know. They just want the brightest, the fastest, the quickest. They don't even LOOK at the quad core kerthingummy.

They want what they feel is cool right now, driven by the marketing message. And at the minute, that's Android. And that, in itself, is a reaction to iPhone. iPhone may seem cool in the numbers they are shipping but Apples market share worldwide has been decimated by Android, primarily driven by Samsung.

Now, what if Samsung get too big for their boots and go with their own OS? That could be fun!

What BlackBerry should have done with BB10 IMHO is make it a naughty secret, which, ironically, is where it is going by default....!

They do know about the ecosystem. They may not call it that I think that is largely what they are responding to - apps and ease of connectivity and options for that.

Posted via CB10

[DS1331]

I just wanna ask, everyone who says they've shown someone their BlackBerry and the person says " wow that's a blackberry phone, sweet" who actually even bought or even gave a second thought about buying a BlackBerry after that. Probably 0 out of 10

Sent From Q10/HTC One

[milo53]

This whole thing is like a bad dream......

[BlackStormRising]

I recall their Super bowl commercial was winning...and it got pulled from the contest voting page. And I highly doubt that Crackberry fans were stuffing the ballot box, there's 10 haters for every zealot here, has been for years.

Posted via CB10

[canuckvoip]

I recall their Super bowl commercial was winning...and it got pulled from the contest voting page. And I highly doubt that Crackberry fans were stuffing the ballot box, there's 10 haters for every zealot here, has been for years.

Posted via CB10

I wouldn't say zealot... or even fanboy, but for sure there are way too many people wanting to tear this down instead of build it up. Negative Nancy circle jerkers thanking and liking each other seems to be a sad sport.