[defcon3]

Hello awesome citizens of the CB nation!

Despite the fact I do not have a single BBM contact, lately I have been pondering on the concept of BBM, the PIN numbering, the data communication behind it, etc - just random stuff to keep my mind fit and entertained.

What I wish to know is how are PIN numbers generated?

Is the factory following a gradual incrementation, like

00000001, 00000002, ... 000000A1, 000000A2, .... ZZZZZZZY, ZZZZZZZZ
using numbers from 0-9 and letters A-Z

or

is the PIN a more complex number, somehow linked to the IMEI number, or randomly generated using a hash from the IMEI, S/N or other number specific to the device hardware it is assigned to?

Thank you for your input

[Sith_Apprentice]

The PIN and IMEI are not related until burned into the device. The IMEI will not be incremental when the PIN is, and the PIN wont be when the IMEI is.

[Shinrar]

00000001, 00000002, ... 000000A1, 000000A2, .... ZZZZZZZY, ZZZZZZZZ
using numbers from 0-9 and letters A-Z

I thought PINs were Hexadecimal, not AlphaNumeric...

[Reed McLay]

using numbers from 0-9 and letters A-Z
...

The PIN number is expressed in base 16 or hexadecimal.

The numbers range from 0-9 and A-F, only. The math works out to over 4 billion (4,294,967,296) possible PIN numbers, that should be enough the next few years.

[Radius]

Can't we just go to BCD and be done with it?

[defcon3]

Thank you guys for the clarification - I did not know it was hexidecimal, but this is really aside to the question.

Are they growing incrementally +1 or are they calculated in some other way?

[Javaddict]

The PIN number is expressed in base 16 or hexadecimal.

The numbers range from 0-9 and A-F, only. The math works out to over 4 billion (4,294,967,296) possible PIN numbers, that should be enough the next few years.

Maybe the next 1 or 2 years. Yes it's Hex based, sexatrigesimal is rather unwieldy in the computer world.

[Reed McLay]

Thank you guys for the clarification - I did not know it was hexidecimal, but this is really aside to the question.

Are they growing incrementally +1 or are they calculated in some other way?

There no way the numbering could have started at zero, at 50 million odd BlackBerrys manufactured, there would still be leading zeros in every PIN number. (268,435,455)

It could be random, bounded by a range and checked against previously assigned number. I once wrote an card shuffle subroutine that did pretty much that to fill an array for the shuffle, in BASIC.

[crackalackberry]

Maybe why they are now doing barcodes? Hm...

Maybe the next 1 or 2 years. Yes it's Hex based, sexatrigesimal is rather unwieldy in the computer world.

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[CanuckBB]

It was my understanding that part of the PIN indicated the device type.

[joryoung]

If you scan your barcode with another phone like a G2 it just states your pin and user name so no the barcodes are not to expand amount that can be used.

[kenman345]

If you scan your barcode with another phone like a G2 it just states your pin and user name so no the barcodes are not to expand amount that can be used.

Then explain why i had BBM5 on my phone, decided to go back to 4.7, and then reverted back to bbm5 and have a different barcode? Both work however, so i never changed my avatar to the new one. Also, when i had bbm4.7, people were still able to add my via my barcode.

[defcon3]

I understand there is no known pattern for PINs, i.e. there is no way of drawing a conclusion like
2008 devices start with 2******* and 2009 devices go 3*******, 2010 with 4******* and the like...

Reason for my asking is that most of ONYX and ODIN devices out there sport a 3******* PIN numbers, while the majority of "existing" officially announced devices go under 2*******

Could be a coincidence, IDK, but was worth asking around, I think

[Radius]

I suspect we are thinking too simply here, they probably would not encode models as 1..9, A..F but most likely they have reserved some bit fields in there. So looking for a pattern in the alpha numeric representation is pointless.

Now collecting a whole slew of PINs from 8310's, 8320's and Bolds and comparing everything bit by bit would be very interesting, I bet some patterns would start to emerge between the different models.

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[defcon3]

Computer processors are labeled in a specific manner, using a "reading" cheat-sheet you can see when a CPU was produced, where, which revision of the core it has, and so on. I was simply wondering if PIN for BBs would represent something similar.

Judging by the number of threads for exchange of PIN numbers with 99% of model numbers listed in each person's profile, a dump of just these two columns from the forum DB should be no problem - model + PIN; this would make great digging/study material for patterns and perhaps a key to reading what's coming next.

[Radius]

I will get right on it. Assuming someone harvests for me. I am just so lazy. :-P

But I can make a program real quick to reveal it all no problem.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[skyboxer]

It certainly does seem like a range of PINs are used, although the generation of the numbers may be random within that range. I've had a TMO 8900 that started with 24, and have a VZW tour that starts with 30. Does anyone have the same models that start with something different?

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[dictoresno]

Ive noticed all T-mobile or ATT PINs begin with a "2" and all Verizon ones ive seen begin with "3". I wonder if thats a GSM/CDMA thing.

[Devlyn16]

The PIN number is expressed in base 16 or hexadecimal.

The numbers range from 0-9 and A-F, only. The math works out to over 4 billion (4,294,967,296) possible PIN numbers, that should be enough the next few years.

yep and then almost all the PINS that have been used can be recycled when their carriers no longer support CDMA or GSM