1. Upright-Underground's Avatar
    Attachment 365670

    It is beyond beaten to death. But maybe if we add sensationalist language, copious amounts of extreme punctuation, and an alarmist header, perhaps it can be resurrected so that we can beat it to death again!
    Sounds like the majority of threads.

     Classic
    08-13-15 03:22 PM
  2. CTU2fan's Avatar
    It doesn't matter how we got here. We're here now. And right here, right now, BB10 is on its last legs. Imagine a freight train screaming down the tracks at 100km/hr, and five feet from hitting a brick wall.

    You could introduce the God device - slab or otherwise, and put all $3 billion you have left into marketing, and nothing would change. Why? Apps.

    If you want apps you need Google Play Services. To get that, you need pure Android. Simple.

    With an effective BlackBerry Experience on a BlackBerry branded Android device, you would interest most of the BlackBerry faithful, and would provide the market with something interesting in the ocean of slabs - an optional world class keyboard that you can extend if so desired.

    It's worth a shot. Since there is, by definition, no alternative.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2339
    As much as I personally like BB10 I agree with this 100%.

    I do wonder what BlackBerry can bring to the table to make its Android device(s) more attractive than the current crop of Androids out there. I mean something with more general pull than a PKB and the BlackBerry Experience skin.

    Posted via CB10
    08-13-15 03:38 PM
  3. lnichols's Avatar
    You poor, poor things you. This is an atrocity! How dare they not build a phone that you and a handful of others want?!?!? They should build a super premium all touch device tailor made for each and every one of you and sell it to you at an incredible loss to make up for not catering to your needs. How's $50 sound for a super premium all touch device with all the bells and whistles?

    What a joke. BlackBerry is a company. They're in the business of making money. BlackBerry all touch devices have already proven to the company that they just won't sell. BlackBerry made the Z30 and it flopped. How many Z10 users actually upgraded then?



    Your whole thread was started to create drama where there was none.

    Posted via CB10
    I think the issue is that they have built phones that few people want like the three different Passports, the Classic, and the Leap, but have ignored their largest user group by device sales, all touch. It would be like Honda or Toyota stopped making Camry and Accord for two years and focusing on the lower selling cars and wondering why their sales dropped dramatically. Also how can you say all touch didn't sell, when in the first 4 months of BlackBerry 10 only being available on an all touch Z10, they sold more phones than the entire year since the Passport released and had the Classic and Leap in there too? The Z30 released 6 months after the Z10, and it didn't offer enough improvements over the Z10 to justify that quick of an upgrade.

    You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. Please reference the earning reports for the launch quarter and quarter after that to see sales numbers. Also realize that the Z30 was not released with a US variant other than Verizon, and the one available on shopblackberry.com supports T-Mobile fairly well, but AT&T less so. Fact is PKB audience can only buy so many of the different color variants and they still can't break a Million units a quarter, but an all touch would have allowed them a couple quarters to double or maybe triple those numbers from all touch BB10 users wanting legitimate upgrades. I upgraded from a Z10 to a Z30 for $224 because that was all that was available. Had a Passport Spec'd all touch device been launched at the same time with a 1080 or better screen, I and likely many other all touch BB10 users would have upgraded and paid $600.

    Posted via Z30
    08-13-15 04:04 PM
  4. ZeroBarrier's Avatar
    Trying to talk reason into rabid BlackBerry all touch fans is impossible, and I apologize that I even tried. I broke the cardinal rule, arguing on the Internet; because it's exactly like competing in the special olympics...

    Strike everything I said off the record. Please proceed to beat the horse to death yet another time.


    Lack of a Premium All Touch is Killing BB10-58a.jpg

    Posted via CB10
    08-13-15 04:33 PM
  5. lorax1284's Avatar
    i'm astounded that anyone has the 'nads to suggest that the relative 'success' of the z10 is something that can be repeated, like everyone who bought the Z10 is going to forget how the 150,000 apps are mostly marginalized junk, and now that the whole world knows it, who's going to buy a new powerful all touch aside from existing BB10 diehards?

    I respect those that say 'I want a BB10 all touch and I'll pay anything to get it, and I don't care what it does to BB's bottom line or market share.'

    ...but to suggest it as some kind of hail Mary pass for BlackBerry? We weren't born yesterday.

    The slider running BB10 would do more for BB10's fortunes than a full slab will, because the slider stands a chance at increasing BB10 market share... a full touch can only cannibalize existing BB10 market share... but the slider is apparently not going to be running BB10 so we'll never know.

    Posted via CB10
    DrBoomBotz and GadgetTravel like this.
    08-13-15 04:50 PM
  6. lnichols's Avatar
    i'm astounded that anyone has the 'nads to suggest that the relative 'success' of the z10 is something that can be repeated, like everyone who bought the Z10 is going to forget how the 150,000 apps are mostly marginalized junk, and now that the whole world knows it, who's going to buy a new powerful all touch aside from existing BB10 diehards?

    I respect those that say 'I want a BB10 all touch and I'll pay anything to get it, and I don't care what it does to BB's bottom line or market share.'

    ...but to suggest it as some kind of hail Mary pass for BlackBerry? We weren't born yesterday.

    The slider running BB10 would do more for BB10's fortunes than a full slab will, because the slider stands a chance at increasing BB10 market share... a full touch can only cannibalize existing BB10 market share... but the slider is apparently not going to be running BB10 so we'll never know.

    Posted via CB10
    And I'm amazed at people that defend PKB devices even though there are now high end and lower end options available, a stupid tool belt that people said was needed, and sales suck! Sales have never been lower at BlackBerry than under the current heavily PKB focused product portfolio.

    Posted via Z30
    08-13-15 07:11 PM
  7. mnc76's Avatar
    I'm very interested in the slider. I'm hoping that it will be low profile with a rigid mechanism and pulls double duty well. I'd like it personally to function as a slab well for the times I don't want a pkb. I do miss flick typing. I really enjoyed that.

    Sent via Passport!
    If the blurry pics turn out to be accurate, then it appears that the slider looks like a regular slab when closed (unlike a device like the Torch, which was clearly a slider).

    If they can make it look just like a regular high-end slab when closed, then I may be getting it. If it *looks* like a slider, then I'm not interested. I prefer the look of slabs, and BlackBerry's touch keyboard is more than good enough for me.

    I never thought I'd go for an all-touch, but the Z10 (and *especially* the Z30), taught me to be just as good on a touch screen.

    It's funny, BlackBerry taught so many of their loyal users to live without a PKB, and now they likely won't make anymore non-PKB devices after converting them.

    Posted via CB10
    RickTrout likes this.
    08-13-15 07:22 PM
  8. lnichols's Avatar
    I never thought I'd go for an all-touch, but the Z10 (and *especially* the Z30), taught me to be just as good on a touch screen.

    It's funny, BlackBerry taught so many of their loyal users to live without a PKB, and now they likely won't make anymore non-PKB devices after converting them.

    Posted via CB10
    Yep in the same boat. Used PKB from Treo 600 through the 9900. Ten + years of use. The Z line converted me to all touch and I'm never getting another PKB device. I upgraded to the Z30 last November during the $224 sale, and one for wife too, to hold me over till a new all touch. If they had a high end all touch then, or any time after that, I would have bought that at $500 to $600. Now I'm waiting for the iPhone event to see what Apple brings to the table with the 6s as BlackBerry has said I'm not a customer they value. Well hopefully BlackBerry is forced to start leaking some info with the Galaxy Note event and IPhone event coming soon to minimize defections.

    Posted via Z30
    08-13-15 07:51 PM
  9. Notna Nosyel's Avatar
    Can a high end all touch change the way I use my phone? Does calling or texting be different? Or sending emails will it be different from what I'm doing in the hub? Or just to look cool like the other platforms?

    Posted via CB10
    08-14-15 03:55 AM
  10. stavwoz's Avatar
    I don't think we will ever see another BB10 all touch, I think bb10 is dead, sales ridiculously low even with the saviour classic and resources taken away and moved to software, development to me is quieter than ever....

    Chen has got his way, I believe from day one he wanted rid of phones but couldn't do it until he could build the software side (which is starting to happen) so has slowly overseen the demise of handsets by building niche models and so sales have tanked and he has an excuse to kill it off.

    Oh well, it has been good while it lasted, I will continue to use my Q10 until it dies along side a slab from another company so I can get certain apps I need.

    Just my thoughts...

    No more double typing...
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    08-14-15 04:13 AM
  11. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    The reason I suggest a passport minus physical keyboard because it would take the least R and D.
    Would have a BOM that is only slightly different to the passport. Possibly the same line could make both devices.
    Its probably too late to cancel the slider but I suspect that it will be born into a tough market
    My suspicions were confirmed today.
    Canada in recession as GDP shrinks in 2nd quarter - Business - CBC News
    09-01-15 08:42 AM
  12. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Why were adoption rates higher for the platform when the Z10/Z30 were on the market?

    Sent via Passport!
    Before Thor put the company up for sale it was less apparent that the ecosystem did not have a chance.
    The Z10/Z30 purchasers were optimistic early adopters who were either unaware of the ecosystem limitations, didn't care about apps or thought that BlackBerry would solve those problems in due time. After Thor put the company up for sale the stream of optimistic pioneers pretty much dried up. Any high end all touch BB10 device released after that would have only sold to existing users, which is too small a market for profitability.
    Last edited by DrBoomBotz; 10-22-15 at 02:01 PM.
    ubizmo and Troy Tiscareno like this.
    10-22-15 11:13 AM
  13. cgk's Avatar
    Where does this idea that the z30 had an impact on sales come from? A quick skim at the earnings calls say that in the first fall quarter of its release that BBRY handset sales declined by 600,000 (from 1.9 million) - now we know from other statements from the time that sales were roughly 65% BBOS and 35% BB10 so it could be accounted for by the drop-off in the old OS but when you are dealing with such tiny numbers to start with and multiple devices, the Z30 contribution has to be pretty low.

    So where's the sales boost? Except for when they sold off the warehoused Z10s, every BB10 device has flopped.
    TgeekB likes this.
    10-22-15 01:17 PM
  14. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Where does this idea that the z30 had an impact on sales come from? A quick skim at the earnings calls say that in the first fall quarter of its release that BBRY handset sales declined by 600,000 (from 1.9 million) - now we know from other statements from the time that sales were roughly 65% BBOS and 35% BB10 so it could be accounted for by the drop-off in the old OS but when you are dealing with such tiny numbers to start with and multiple devices, the Z30 contribution has to be pretty low.

    So where's the sales boost? Except for when they sold off the warehoused Z10s, every BB10 device has flopped.
    Please correct me if I am wrong.

    1.9 - 0.6 = 1.3
    1.3 x 0.35 = 0.56

    So they sold 560,000 BB10 units that quarter.

    10-22-15 01:58 PM
  15. cgk's Avatar
    Please correct me if I am wrong.

    1.9 - 0.6 = 1.3
    1.3 x 0.35 = 0.56

    So they sold 560,000 BB10 units that quarter.
    Something like that (the 65, 35 is from an analyst question and is said to be 'roughtly right) Which was made up of Z10, Z3 was then out, em Q5, Q10 and z30.
    10-22-15 02:00 PM
  16. lnichols's Avatar
    Any high end all touch BB10 device release after that would have only sold to existing users, which is too small a market for profitability.
    Who do you think was driving the Passport and Classic's pathetic sales figures. The only people buying those things were existing users, and less existing users than bought Z line devices. They release an SE version or Blue color Classic and they sell more to the same people, not bring in new people. This Priv is going to bring in a few people, and has caused some to leave. I might have actually bought a BB10 Priv and definitely an all touch device with the same internals, but thankfully Chen saved me from setting more money on fire by going Android because now the company has nothing I want to buy.
    10-22-15 02:03 PM
  17. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Who do you think was driving the Passport and Classic's pathetic sales figures. The only people buying those things were existing users, and less existing users than bought Z line devices. They release an SE version or Blue color Classic and they sell more to the same people, not bring in new people. This Priv is going to bring in a few people, and has caused some to leave. I might have actually bought a BB10 Priv and definitely an all touch device with the same internals, but thankfully Chen saved me from setting more money on fire by going Android because now the company has nothing I want to buy.
    I agree that the Passport and Classic sold largely to existing users.
    I also would not argue that the high-end all touch device would sell more.
    IMO an all-touch device would not bring in a significant number of new users.
    My guess is that BlackBerry thought they might get more new users with Passport and Classic but were disappointed.
    Soon we will find out if the Priv can get new users and get the hardware group on a paying basis.
    10-22-15 02:11 PM
  18. JulesDB's Avatar
    Crackberrians are already divided.

    The Android worshippers aren't supporting BlackBerry 10 anymore, sadly they 've sold their soul for an handful of apps...

    ___BlackBerry 10 makes me stay___
    10-22-15 03:29 PM
  19. cigarsandtanks's Avatar
    What defines a "premium" device? Was there an industry definition that I missed? How are Passports and Z30's not "premium"?

    Posted via CB10
    10-22-15 03:42 PM
  20. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    What defines a "premium" device? Was there an industry definition that I missed? How are Passports and Z30's not "premium"?

    Posted via CB10
    Passport was in premium territory but the z30 screen was not up to par and its soc was a year old if memory serves.
    10-22-15 03:58 PM
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