[JRSCCivic98]

I'd like to take the time to give everyone my quick assessment of Kevin's video. I sat there watching this video and I have to say that the video didn't give me any insight into Android, BB vs Android, various Android handsets and how they compare to each other, or anything of the sort. (This is not a negative, so don't read too much into it.) What it did give me is a view into the world of a heavy BB user and abuser. As we all know, Kevin's heavy into RIM devices. There's a ton of stuff he does with the platform on a daily basis both on the hardware and software fronts. However, with all that said, I guess I always expected a lot of users on these forums to be a little more informed about their rival platforms. I can honestly say that to me it came as a total shock that Kevin seemed to be "The General Novice User" in the video. He seemed so much like someone going into a carrier's store and wanting to pick up a new phone that I almost thought I was watching a Kevin imposter. I don't know if he "played dumb" for the sake of the video and that's the persona he wanted to embody, but it completely floored me that a cell device centric person such as Kevin really could seem so "non-aware" of other handsets and their capabilities or OS layouts/functions.

I'm not knocking Kevin on this, but it made me wonder how many other Blackberry users and abusers out there are "truly" within this scope of mind that they have no idea what the other phones out there can do. I can't sit back and wonder just how many of you out there are so content on not seeing what the other platforms can do that you truly think that BB is the ultimate handset. I guess if this new mindset reality is true, I can see why so many of you on here seem so brainwashed and content with the BB platform.


I for one like to mess with and dive into many different smartphone platforms. I have to be, because a lot of my clients have different needs and they all need all those different platforms to work with their stuff, both work and play. I guess I'm a bit more open minded when it comes to which platform is best for each user. I tend to approach it from the standpoint of "What does the user need to do and how?" and help them pick the best fit for that based on carrier and handset preference/availability.


As I said before, this isn't a knock on Kevin or his video, it's just a public expression of what I witnessed as a surprising factor about him. It's almost as if aside from the Round Robin, Kevin never ventures outside of the BB platform or wants to even touch other devices. Even if this is not true, I have to wonder how many BB users out there this video doesn't personify to a T. I guess this explains why so many of you aren't as passionate about many of the issues or shortcomings that I see in the BB platform.... it's not that you don't care, it's more that you don't think its a problem since you don't know any better.

[Bajanbastard]

Ha! Will Smith is first in the *** kissing line now!

You hit the nail right on the head in your assessment IMHO. Many BB users are so into their devices that they never see any shortcomings with the platform and frankly some get offended when people point out pretty obvious flaws........I'm RIM to the core but there are some things that can be improved.

[jeffh]

.... it's not that you don't care, it's more that you don't think its a problem since you don't know any better.

I think that sums it up perfectly.

[Username00089]

The reason why I agree with this whole-heartedly is because I was once a person
who would knock other devices like there was no tomorrow. Especially the iPhone.
Even when I "played around" with an iPhone in a store or using a friend's, I hated it
and took every chance I could to rip it.

Until a month later after the 3GS came out over this past summer I actually bought
it to get more aquainted with it. I gave it a chance and used it on a daily basis. I'm
not going to say it was because I'm an open-minded person though. The initial
reason was because I too started to become very, very enervated in the BB's
shortcomings.

Well wouldn't you know I use my iPhone 3GS now more than my Blackberry. Instead
of using my experience with "playing around" with it I used my experience of
actually owning the device to know more about it.

I've actually played around with a Droid hands on and don't care too much for it
but I will no longer make the mistake in ripping it like I did the iPhone.

My point: Nowadays with new devices, you need a much more hands-on
user experience to know what you're using instead of the traditional walk in
to the store and play around with the phone and form an opinion right away.

This is a very, very good thread.

[Blkbear]

I think what it might be is that many BB users came from dumb phones and maybe just used one phone for several years until it was time to upgrade, the phone was lost/broken or they switched carriers and were forced to get a new phone, due to it not working on the new carrier. Many of these users only get phones their carrier handles at the discounted prices that are offered, so there won't be much in the way of trying out other platforms, if the phone is out of their price range or it is not even offered on their carrier.

The closest many users come to trying out other platforms, is through friends and family that have other platforms, or playing with the tethered phones at retail outlets or carrier stores. While you can get a feel for a phone standing in a store, you really can't get comfortable with a new platform, unless you have a weekend or more to sit down and really play with the menus and settings.

JRSCCivic98 I can see where you are coming from as far as Kevin's video, to me it felt more like an interview on a talk show rather than a product review.

Also many of the BB "shortcomings" are things long time or power users will notice, before a new BB user will. Like your pet BB peeve, "truncated emails". And the option for other platforms is one they will move to, if RIM does not step up and make changes. But I have a feeling that really won't happen, until RIM's core demographic, starts to make that shift to other platforms.

[cain0013]

What the h*ll is a Droid? Is that the new guy on Terminator Salvation? If Kevin doesn't like him, then neither do I.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[amazinglygraceless]

I have not seen the video so I can't comment on it's content. As to Civics' post I
have to agree with the assessment and believe there are several other reasons:

1) Elitism. There are people that genuinely think having a "smartphone", especially
a BlackBerry puts them in some elevated class. And no matter how much people
protest this opinion, anyone who honestly reads this and other forums know
this is completely accurate.

2) Changing demographic. For better or worse, with the release of the Pearl 8100
RIM entered the consumer space with a bang. That particular segment of the
market is not interested in minutiae such as truncated emails, inability of the
Premier email device to do things as simple as make folders, templates, or add
items to the calendar. They want what is new, flashy and popular.

3) Groupthink - there are some people who will hear stuff so much that it simply
becomes fact to them. How many people believe in the battery pull as a memory
management tool? Or that the BlackBerry provides bulletproof security to
BIS users?

4) Blind allegiance - as long as RIM knows there are legions of people who utter
"I will never use anything else" they don't have to make anything else. Just
rewrap the old items, make a few incremental tweaks and call it revolutionary.

[SevereDeceit]

I have not seen the video so I can't comment on it's content. As to Civics' post I
have to agree with the assessment and believe there are several other reasons:

1) Elitism. There are people that genuinely think having a "smartphone", especially
a BlackBerry puts them in some elevated class. And no matter how much people
protest this opinion, anyone who honestly reads this and other forums know
this is completely accurate.

2) Changing demographic. For better or worse, with the release of the Pearl 8100
RIM entered the consumer space with a bang. That particular segment of the
market is not interested in minutiae such as truncated emails, inability of the
Premier email device to do things as simple as make folders, templates, or add
items to the calendar. They want what is new, flashy and popular.

3) Groupthink - there are some people who will hear stuff so much that it simply
becomes fact to them. How many people believe in the battery pull as a memory
management tool? Or that the BlackBerry provides bulletproof security to
BIS users?

4) Blind allegiance - as long as RIM knows there are legions of people who utter
"I will never use anything else" they don't have to make anything else. Just
rewrap the old items, make a few incremental tweaks and call it revolutionary.

Man, I couldn't agree more. Especially that last statement...

BTW, You rock Civic...

[jlsparks]

I have not seen the video so I can't comment on it's content. As to Civics' post I
have to agree with the assessment and believe there are several other reasons:

1) Elitism. There are people that genuinely think having a "smartphone", especially
a BlackBerry puts them in some elevated class. And no matter how much people
protest this opinion, anyone who honestly reads this and other forums know
this is completely accurate.

2) Changing demographic. For better or worse, with the release of the Pearl 8100
RIM entered the consumer space with a bang. That particular segment of the
market is not interested in minutiae such as truncated emails, inability of the
Premier email device to do things as simple as make folders, templates, or add
items to the calendar. They want what is new, flashy and popular.

3) Groupthink - there are some people who will hear stuff so much that it simply
becomes fact to them. How many people believe in the battery pull as a memory
management tool? Or that the BlackBerry provides bulletproof security to
BIS users?

4) Blind allegiance - as long as RIM knows there are legions of people who utter
"I will never use anything else" they don't have to make anything else. Just
rewrap the old items, make a few incremental tweaks and call it revolutionary.

Ignoring the first 2 points (not out of lack of interest, but because they're not what I choose to address):

3. Groupthink. I would respectfully submit that if there is any group of smartphone owners (or potential owners) who exhibit groupthink it's iPhone users. Ever been in an Apple store? I don't mean that facetiously, but rhetorically. I had to go to one tonight because my MBP is getting wonky on me, and I need it for a snazzy little A/V presentation on Wednesday at trial. Anyway, talk about herd mentality. I watched 2 people "trying out" iPhones. By the time my "genius" called me about 10 minutes later there must have been around 8 folks gathered around, watching the original 2 playing some game app. I'm not knocking the phone or the platform - I have a lot of friends and relatives who own them, and couldn't be happier. Point is: Apple's done a fan-friggen-tastic job of creating a cult mentality around their phone. RIM doesn't do that. They just drop devices, sell tens of thousands of new ones to government/Fortune 50 BES accounts, and count the money.

4. Blind allegiance. Again, briefly, I would submit that there are far more iPhone users who had v1, v2, 3G, and now 3GS (whatever that is) than RIM users who "won't use anything else." Fact is, a large minority of RIM device owners are provided them by their employer. These employers have a variety of reasons for selecting RIM devices over other smartphones, but the point is that these enormous corp and government accounts aren't going anywhere. I just don't see the FBI migrating from RIM to Android any time soon. That's largely because RIM's devices do *exactly* what these corps and government agencies need them to do: support reliable push (BES) email, cal and contact integration, etc. Can Android and others provide comparable services? Today, no. In a year? Perhaps. But keep in mind that these very entities are among the most conservative, and least likely to make a massive change in their mobile communications.

Know that I'm not knocking any of the platforms I've mentioned. I'm well aware that some former BES customers have migrated to other smartphones. My underlying point, though, is that RIM continues to be in the catbird seat with respect to massively profitable contracts. That affords them the ability to play around some in the consumer (BIS) sandbox.

[JRSCCivic98]

Ignoring the first 2 points (not out of lack of interest, but because they're not what I choose to address):

3. Groupthink. I would respectfully submit that if there is any group of smartphone owners (or potential owners) who exhibit groupthink it's iPhone users. Ever been in an Apple store? I don't mean that facetiously, but rhetorically. I had to go to one tonight because my MBP is getting wonky on me, and I need it for a snazzy little A/V presentation on Wednesday at trial. Anyway, talk about herd mentality. I watched 2 people "trying out" iPhones. By the time my "genius" called me about 10 minutes later there must have been around 8 folks gathered around, watching the original 2 playing some game app. I'm not knocking the phone or the platform - I have a lot of friends and relatives who own them, and couldn't be happier. Point is: Apple's done a fan-friggen-tastic job of creating a cult mentality around their phone. RIM doesn't do that. They just drop devices, sell tens of thousands of new ones to government/Fortune 50 BES accounts, and count the money.

4. Blind allegiance. Again, briefly, I would submit that there are far more iPhone users who had v1, v2, 3G, and now 3GS (whatever that is) than RIM users who "won't use anything else." Fact is, a large minority of RIM device owners are provided them by their employer. These employers have a variety of reasons for selecting RIM devices over other smartphones, but the point is that these enormous corp and government accounts aren't going anywhere. I just don't see the FBI migrating from RIM to Android any time soon. That's largely because RIM's devices do *exactly* what these corps and government agencies need them to do: support reliable push (BES) email, cal and contact integration, etc. Can Android and others provide comparable services? Today, no. In a year? Perhaps. But keep in mind that these very entities are among the most conservative, and least likely to make a massive change in their mobile communications.

Know that I'm not knocking any of the platforms I've mentioned. I'm well aware that some former BES customers have migrated to other smartphones. My underlying point, though, is that RIM continues to be in the catbird seat with respect to massively profitable contracts. That affords them the ability to play around some in the consumer (BIS) sandbox.

Let me tell you why RIM is successful in the BES/Corporate. Cheap handsets and limited capability usage. By this I mean... easy to replace handsets when the workers break them because they're cheap and inexpensive. And easy to take a phone that can do quite a bit of stuff and lock it down to where the monkey that carries it can use it for PIM and Phone capabilities only. Now, with a need such as this, why on earth would a non-elite employee be given a sexy and slick device with touch screen that they can break because their fat American *** sat on it when beer thirty hit and they were out at the bar with their friends? Yep... it's the truth and how I view it. It's the same reason they make trucks, non-designer jeans, and basic shoes.... Before the Storm, there were no Blackberries that you couldn't drop and then pick it back up and finish typing your sentance. This is what most corporations want... a simple plastic device that can take a banging and only let people do what their company wants them to do. Elite people and highly tech aware corporate execs (but don't have a choice because IT runs the ship) want more... consumers aren't far behind on this either. RIM needs to find a way to fit this perticular bill. Currently, they aren't doing it and I don't believe they think they need to at a very fast rate.

[noized77]

I can relate to the point the original poster was making but doesn't it apply to other popular platform such as android and apple? Why only limited to RIM, just b/c they've been in the business much longer then everyone else? I've own my first BB for about 6 month now. Prior to that I've been lurking in the iphone and android forums in my research for my first smart phone and I've seen just as much if not more blinded fanboi user then BBs. I've decided to try a BB b/c it was best catered to my need better then those other devices given the information from each platform respective forum. I honestly though most BB user on Crack share my sentiment here. This is an old logic implemented into todays technology that will never go away. Sega vs Nintendo, Sony vs Microsoft. All of these companies have elite status users that the OP and Amazinglygracless mention but in a much more grander scale IMO. Its a moot point to make and I'm not sure why its even a discussion considering we see it all the time.

Here another reason to add to the list. Sometimes people are under contract and they don't want to pay full price for a new phone so they have to convince themselves their current phone are just as good or better and therefore they blindly see opinion as fact. Nothing new really...

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[oasissux]

...why on earth would a non-elite employee be given a sexy and slick device with touch screen that they can break because their fat American *** sat on it when beer thirty hit and they were out at the bar with their friends?

Don't you get it?? You just described the bulk of humanity. Those are the people buying things. Wal-Mart ring any bells???

The 'elite' user is barely worth marketing to. They're a niche market at best.

[Username00089]

4) Blind allegiance - as long as RIM knows there are legions of people who utter
"I will never use anything else" they don't have to make anything else. Just
rewrap the old items, make a few incremental tweaks and call it revolutionary.

This here has also been my point for the last few months. RIM has absolutely
no incentive to improve their product because of all this loyalty. These are
the people that do the talking with their wallets and nothing else.