[undone]

Gloom and Doom.....they will either be in business in the future or not. Only time will tell and most are bend on seeing BB going down. I write it up to passive aggressive hatred for having to use the only smart phone for years....I hated BB devices back in the day, thought they where stupid and who would really want to be 'connected' all the time.

BB will survive much better (maybe longer is more accurate) then Palm ever had a chance too and HP is where all tech goes to die (its like a graveyard). BB doesn't just make handsets.

[ynomrah]

Do you have any numbers to back this up, specifically the sales numbers for Nexus devices (sales of Nexus 4 and a separate number for non-Nexus 4 devices' sales would be great.) You are making two claims in the rest of your post:

1. Subsidized Nexus pricing isn't why the Nexus 4 sold decently well ("superior product" as you claim. Therefore I'd like to see numbers for previous Nexus phones that demonstrate the superiority of a continuous sales strategy pushing these superior products.)

2. The Nexus 4 sells well, which would be contradicting something you said previously:

I never said the sales of the nexus 4 were good all I said was that were well in contrast to what blackberry is doing. Trying to be smart by digging through my post history? Nice try. Both your points are just assumptions your making about what I said.

Sooo if the Nexus 4, was the result of "a superior product and sales strategy," for starters, wouldn't it have done better than 1% within Android devices?

Sales strategy applies to much more than just raw box sales, especially in googles case.


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[lawguyman]

Can we at least agree that they made about half a billion more in the FY that just closed than they did in the previous year? And that to most people that would represent progress?

From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10

Having cash on your balance sheet is nice but it is not the same thing as being profitable. Truth is that I am not that concerned about the distant past. The thing that concerns me is that BlackBerry has nice products that are not selling. That is not a sustainable situation.

The US launch was botched royally but Heins thinks it went fine because BlackBerry trained 50,000 people? How many sales per each trainee then?

He is talking about investment but where has it been? I think he would rather keep the cash on his balance sheet than spend chunks of it to seed device acceptance. It is not the time to be cautious in this way. There are only so many chances BlackBerry will get and one has already been squandered with a bad launch.



Posted via CB10

[lawguyman]

You're posting reasons why. Of course there are reasons why. Doesn't refute the similarities.
For example, the Sprint reference above.
And why was that ? Verizon backed out at the last minute. No carrier support, same as Blackberry. The why is different, the end results similar.

The "comparison are weak" reference is subjective. The similarities are not.

BlackBerry has three American carriers on board now and the 4 th is coming. Palm never had more than one. I don't get the comparison.

Palm also spent lots of money on those ads with the creepy chick. I still remember them. BlackBerry spends no money on its forget able ads.

Posted via CB10

[Thunderbuck]

Having cash on your balance sheet is nice but it is not the same thing as being profitable. Truth is that I am not that concerned about the distant past. The thing that concerns me is that BlackBerry has nice products that are not selling. That is not a sustainable situation.

The US launch was botched royally but Heins thinks it went fine because BlackBerry trained 50,000 people? How many sales per each trainee then?

He is talking about investment but where has it been? I think he would rather keep the cash on his balance sheet than spend chunks of it to seed device acceptance. It is not the time to be cautious in this way. There are only so many chances BlackBerry will get and one has already been squandered with a bad launch.



Posted via CB10

I don't know that BB "botched" the US launch any more than Samsung "botched" the GS4 launch. Both fell short of projections and that suggests a market weakness. That isn't BB's fault unless you expect them to be psychic.

And I'm going to say that there's even a silver lining to the slow start in the US: the BB10 phones are already less buggy and have more features and available apps than they did at launch. If a major new marketing offensive is launched they have a more attractive product to base it on.

From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10

[njblackberry]

@Scalemaster Agreed, the BES10 upgrade isn't just plug-and-play, but I'd still say it's easier and cheaper than ripping everything out and going with Good or MobileIron.

And why does a CIO care about BB10 as a platform, anyway? They can go all Android or iOS if they want and never buy another BlackBerry again. BB will still be happy to collect annual license fees.

From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10

I envision it the other way around (imagine that) - why would I rip out a perfectly good working Mobile Iron or Airwatch MDM in order to support BES 10...

[RubberChicken76]

Aging OS that needed revamp like Palm - Check

And Apple (Classic Mac OS), Microsoft (Windows Mobile) and others throughout the years. :-D

Low adoption rate like Palm - Check

True, though the BB10 numbers are approximately 3 times as high so far. :-)

Hemorrhaging users like Palm - Check

But from a much larger base. Did Palm ever have - say 5 million active users at any given time? What was the peak? Anything close to 72 million?

Poor marketing and clueless commercials like Palm - Check

You don't like them. More opinions as 'fact'.

Weak US carrier support like Palm - Check

Palm only had one carrier in the US, if I recall.

Handset released with missing common features like Palm - Check

Unfortunately, that's common. See "no cut and paste" on Windows Phone, iOS etc. BlackBerry 10 also had a lot of things out of the gate too.

Missing big names apps like Palm - Check

700 apps vs. 70,000 at launch is not the same.

Making promises of updates for released device and then reneging on promise like Palm - Check

Outlanding and exagerated. I've had two updates for the Z10 since I got it two months ago. If you mean PlayBook, yes, 10 was not released. but they had 10 updates leading to it.

Release of me too tablet before hero handset like Palm - Check

The touchpad predated the Pre?

Not like Palm:

A much larger install base
A much higher shipment rate
A large international audience
A much larger carrier network
A high margin service revenue stream helping in the interim
$3 billion in cash (highest in three years and many times that of Palm)
No debt to speak of (unlike Palm)

[undone]

I envision it the other way around (imagine that) - why would I rip out a perfectly good working Mobile Iron or Airwatch MDM in order to support BES 10...

Same reason you change firewalls or antivirus, something better comes along. Better can be feature set, cost, incentives, etc.

[sinsin07]

BlackBerry has three American carriers on board now and the 4 th is coming..

Number of carriers is apparently not the issue in the US. But I'll concede. Blackberry carrier support in the US is stellar.

Palm never had more than one. I don't get the comparison.

Palm Pre = Sprint. Palm Pre 2 = Verizon

Palm also spent lots of money on those ads with the creepy chick.

What do you consider "lots of money". How much is "lots"? "Lots" as opposed to what?
Have any links or is this just of the top of your head?

I still remember them. BlackBerry spends no money on its forget able ads.

No money? Seems to be some info floating around on this subject. "No money" was not mentioned.

[Thunderbuck]

I envision it the other way around (imagine that) - why would I rip out a perfectly good working Mobile Iron or Airwatch MDM in order to support BES 10...

I'm not arguing that shops that have already migrated to another platform will come back (though some might... who knows?). I'm saying there are still tens of thousands of current BES customers who HAVEN'T migrated yet.

From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10

[njblackberry]

Same reason you change firewalls or antivirus, something better comes along. Better can be feature set, cost, incentives, etc.

You need a compelling case to make any of those moves.
Are you saying the BES10 is better than the incumbents?

[sinsin07]

And Apple (Classic Mac OS), Microsoft (Windows Mobile) and others throughout the years. :-D
.
True, though the BB10 numbers are approximately 3 times as high so far. :-)


But from a much larger base. Did Palm ever have - say 5 million active users at any given time? What was the peak? Anything close to 72 million?



You don't like them. More opinions as 'fact'.



Palm only had one carrier in the US, if I recall.



Unfortunately, that's common. See "no cut and paste" on Windows Phone, iOS etc. BlackBerry 10 also had a lot of things out of the gate too.




700 apps vs. 70,000 at launch is not the same.




Outlanding and exagerated. I've had two updates for the Z10 since I got it two months ago. If you mean PlayBook, yes, 10 was not released. but they had 10 updates leading to it.



The touchpad predated the Pre?

Not like Palm:

A much larger install base
A much higher shipment rate
A large international audience
A much larger carrier network
A high margin service revenue stream helping in the interim
$3 billion in cash (highest in three years and many times that of Palm)
No debt to speak of (unlike Palm)

Thanks for the explanations. But this is not a report card. Doesn't affect the similarities.

[raino]

I never said the sales of the nexus 4 were good all I said was that were well in contrast to what blackberry is doing. Trying to be smart by digging through my post history? Nice try. Both your points are just assumptions your making about what I said.

Trying to be smart by not providing the numbers I asked for? Nice try.

Sales strategy applies to much more than just raw box sales, especially in googles case.

What?? LMAO

[sinsin07]

Repeatedly expressed on the PreCentral/webOS Nation over the past 3 years:

"webOS is hands-down the best mobile OS out there"
"Bad marketing is the real problem"
"The carriers aren't pushing it enough"
"Everyone thinks mine is great when I demo it and are running to the store to get one"
"Just wait till the superphone comes out"
"iOS is getting stale...Android is LMAO. Thanks for the explanations. Doesn't affect the similaritiesa mess"
"iOS was missing all sorts of stuff when it launched. They didn't even have apps for more than a year"
"We've got features that nobody else has - but they all want it"
"There's a flood of new apps coming."
"You don't really need 200,000 apps - most of them are crap"
"This is productivity phone for people who want to get things done, not a toy."
"Just yesterday I saw two people who had one"
"Who really needs a tablet anyway?"
"Management has a roadmap to success - it just takes time."
"The CEO just said how committed they are - so there!"
"The company just rebooted the platform so you can't compare it to the established competition"
"This OS has the potential to operate a lot more than smartphones"
"The new management wasn't in place when the [failed product] was designed and launched"
"It's really the next quarter that will be the key."
"There are a lot of doomsayers around here...Moderator!"

More eerily frightening stuff. Is almost like Blackberry is the ghost of Palm in certain aspects.

[RubberChicken76]

Thanks for the explanations. But this is not a report card. Doesn't affect the similarities.

There are similarities. I just have issue with people assuming blanket-like that "RIM is the next Palm" when there are also some pretty important differences as well.

[Jeremy Bivens]

Repeatedly expressed on the PreCentral/webOS Nation over the past 3 years:

"webOS is hands-down the best mobile OS out there"
"Bad marketing is the real problem"
"The carriers aren't pushing it enough"
"Everyone thinks mine is great when I demo it and are running to the store to get one"
"Just wait till the superphone comes out"
"iOS is getting stale...Android is a mess"
"iOS was missing all sorts of stuff when it launched. They didn't even have apps for more than a year"
"We've got features that nobody else has - but they all want it"
"There's a flood of new apps coming."
"You don't really need 200,000 apps - most of them are crap"
"This is productivity phone for people who want to get things done, not a toy."
"Just yesterday I saw two people who had one"
"Who really needs a tablet anyway?"
"Management has a roadmap to success - it just takes time."
"The CEO just said how committed they are - so there!"
"The company just rebooted the platform so you can't compare it to the established competition"
"This OS has the potential to operate a lot more than smartphones"
"The new management wasn't in place when the [failed product] was designed and launched"
"It's really the next quarter that will be the key."
"There are a lot of doomsayers around here...Moderator!"

Funny part about all this is, a lot of them are things early adopters of Android also said. A lot of these statments are general statements that anyone who supports a brand in the face of adversity would say. And, not to nitpick, but are these actual quotes? Or did you make them up? If they're, where'd you get them from? That's a lot of quotes to just have waiting on this moment to post!

[rudyalexc]

Funny part about all this is, a lot of them are things early adopters of Android also said. A lot of these statments are general statements that anyone who supports a brand in the face of adversity would say. And, not to nitpick, but are these actual quotes? Or did you make them up? If they're, where'd you get them from? That's a lot of quotes to just have waiting on this moment to post!

Poster has a lot of time to spend on gathering quotes I presume. With an attitude of failure from the owners, it won't help the brand anymore. If we are at least willing to work with BlackBerry and expect updates, rather than turn our backs on them when they need us the most, well.. that's that then.


Sent from my BlackBerry Q10 using Tapatalk 2

[Thunderbuck]

More eerily frightening stuff. Is almost like Blackberry is the ghost of Palm in certain aspects.

I'm sure if Palm had 50 million subscribers in 2009 that they would have held on a little longer.

They were heavily in debt and hadn't had a profitable quarter in years by the time HP rode in to the rescue. Nor did they have any corporate mobile infrastructure products. Or a highly-regarded embedded software division.

So, frankly, I don't see any more than the most superficial of comparisons.

From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10

[cgk]

Funny part about all this is, a lot of them are things early adopters of Android also said. A lot of these statments are general statements that anyone who supports a brand in the face of adversity would say. And, not to nitpick, but are these actual quotes? Or did you make them up? If they're, where'd you get them from? That's a lot of quotes to just have waiting on this moment to post!

Well you could search to find them but as a longer term webos nation the only I think is missing is

'Who needs apps when you have a browser?" And

"It's a marathon not a sprint"