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  1. BlackJack-21's Avatar
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    Default Just Speculating. BB10 will kill the "home button".

    Hey folks!

    I reserved my BB10 device at #167, looking forward to my first smartphone. This post is just speculating that when BB10 launches and when consumers catches on how intuitive the User Interface is compared to competitors, I can see Apple and Android adopting the same style of gestures to their OS's. BB10 will simply kill the inconvenience of the "home button". I think that Apple's iOS is looking stale, therefore are in need of a refresh. Of course, they are in no hurry. They have a strong customer base and piles of cash, they are the most valuable tech company in the world. Rightfully so, but after a couple of disappointing iPhone launches they will borrow/steal some feature from BB10. Android might follow suit.

    These are just my thoughts. Sorry about the Grammer and spelling errors.

    I'll revisit my post in a few years time .
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  2. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackJack-21 View Post
    Hey folks!

    I reserved my BB10 device at #167, looking forward to my first smartphone. This post is just speculating that when BB10 launches and when consumers catches on how intuitive the User Interface is compared to competitors, I can see Apple and Android adopting the same style of gestures to their OS's. BB10 will simply kill the inconvenience of the "home button". I think that Apple's iOS is looking stale, therefore are in need of a refresh. Of course, they are in no hurry. They have a strong customer base and piles of cash, they are the most valuable tech company in the world. Rightfully so, but after a couple of disappointing iPhone launches they will borrow/steal some feature from BB10. Android might follow suit.

    These are just my thoughts. Sorry about the Grammer and spelling errors.

    I'll revisit my post in a few years time .
    Apple is indeed looking stale. In app-home screen-other app-In app-home screen-other app-In app-home screen-other app-In app-home screen-other app...

    You have to go to the home screen all the time for no reason if im browsing the web and i get a message why should i have to see a home screen first?
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  3. AVPTI's Avatar
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    The iPhone is at least 2 years away from any removal of Home button...Android has starting to move away from home screen by having actionable notifications and slightly better "multitasking" compared to iOS.
    XoXoXo
  4. CrackedBarry's Avatar
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    May I take a wild guess, that you two fine gentleman have never owned or been near an iPhone? Thereby having just about the same credibility as Ford owner who doesn't like how a Chevy feels, despite never having driven one?

    And the home button has been killed off in many Android handsets, for over a year in fact. It's a pretty poor design decision though. In the iPhones case, Apple are so good at intuitive design that i doubt the homebutton is going anywhere. The homebutton serves an important role that can't be emulated by an onscreen button without a pricy trade off in usability and screen estate.

    And is much more intuitive than on screen gestures. As an example, look at how intuitive the iPad is to use, with the home button that serves as a focus point for multitasking, taskswitching and other functions, and compare it with the Playbook that floundered in sales. The people that DID see it in store quickly gave up on operating it, with the multiple screen gestures and lack of home button.
  5. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackedBarry View Post
    May I take a wild guess, that you two fine gentleman have never owned or been near an iPhone? Thereby having just about the same credibility as Ford owner who doesn't like how a Chevy feels, despite never having driven one?

    And the home button has been killed off in many Android handsets, for over a year in fact. It's a pretty poor design decision though. In the iPhones case, Apple are so good at intuitive design that i doubt the homebutton is going anywhere. The homebutton serves an important role that can't be emulated by an onscreen button without a pricy trade off in usability and screen estate.

    And is much more intuitive than on screen gestures. As an example, look at how intuitive the iPad is to use, with the home button that serves as a focus point for multitasking, taskswitching and other functions, and compare it with the Playbook that floundered in sales. The people that DID see it in store quickly gave up on operating it, with the multiple screen gestures and lack of home button.
    In my household there are ipads, iphones, imacs, ipods. I am aware of the home button and what it does. Its a big button for people that want a way out without multi tasking. People that can't fathom going from one app to another without going to the homescreen and clicking on an icon.
  6. AVPTI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackedBarry View Post
    May I take a wild guess, that you two fine gentleman have never owned or been near an iPhone? Thereby having just about the same credibility as Ford owner who doesn't like how a Chevy feels, despite never having driven one?

    And the home button has been killed off in many Android handsets, for over a year in fact. It's a pretty poor design decision though. In the iPhones case, Apple are so good at intuitive design that i doubt the homebutton is going anywhere. The homebutton serves an important role that can't be emulated by an onscreen button without a pricy trade off in usability and screen estate.

    And is much more intuitive than on screen gestures. As an example, look at how intuitive the iPad is to use, with the home button that serves as a focus point for multitasking, taskswitching and other functions, and compare it with the Playbook that floundered in sales. The people that DID see it in store quickly gave up on operating it, with the multiple screen gestures and lack of home button.
    You really using sales as a reason to why the home button feels old? Desperate much?

    PS. I've been around/used plenty of iDevices over my time and yes, there is nothing wrong with a home button, it just hasn't changed. It's stale. It's boring.

    BB10/the PlayBook have proven that a home button isn't needed and can be replaced by gestures. No loss in screen estate and usability
    XoXoXo
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  7. grahamf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackedBarry View Post
    And the home button has been killed off in many Android handsets, for over a year in fact. It's a pretty poor design decision though.
    Technically they never did. Honeycomb had "virtual" home buttons that were moved onto the touchscreen, and in ICS it was moved back to a physical button (albeit Capacitive on most devices)

    In the iPhones case, Apple are so good at intuitive design that i doubt the homebutton is going anywhere. The homebutton serves an important role that can't be emulated by an onscreen button without a pricy trade off in usability and screen estate.
    Funny. The playbook (and BB10) implements the role without a button, onscreen or not. More efficiently too, as I bet most people don't know about the double-click for app switcher.
    And is much more intuitive than on screen gestures. As an example, look at how intuitive the iPad is to use, with the home button that serves as a focus point for multitasking, taskswitching and other functions, and compare it with the Playbook that floundered in sales. The people that DID see it in store quickly gave up on operating it, with the multiple screen gestures and lack of home button.
    That's not necessarily cause and effect. There are many reasons why the Playbook isn't popular (shipped with a lacking OS, retailers don't always properly set it up for display), but I assure you the gestures are not the problem. Especially with the very explainative sticker that explains the controls in a way that most people can understand (I'd say all people, but you prove that's not the case)
    Blackberry 10 > Windows Phone 7/8 > Blackberry 7 > WebOS > iOS > Android > Symbian > Meego
  8. AVPTI's Avatar
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    Not to mention the iPad's "gestures" are awkward as awkward can get.

    It's like a game "how many fingers can you fit on the screen and swipe to change apps?"
    XoXoXo
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    actually, frequently using iPads and owning iPods, the Home button works fine on a smaller device that you typically use in one hand, it helps orient the device and is easier to use. Where it is awkward is on a larger tablet, which you typically pick up and rotate frequently... where's the home button? Oh, it's on the top or side now, gotta reach up /over and hit it to get back to the home screen... clumsy implementation on the iPads.

    That's where the PB UI shines, it's conveniently functional at any orientation.
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  10. AVPTI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorpalz View Post
    actually, frequently using iPads and owning iPods, the Home button works fine on a smaller device that you typically use in one hand, it helps orient the device and is easier to use.
    Good point there...needless to say, each option (button/gesture) has pluses, but gestures will prove to allow for more flexibility and usability.
    XoXoXo
  11. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
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    This forum may be shut down soon as its mostly non apple fans
  12. calicocat2010's Avatar
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    I bet once BB10 releases and sales are very good, Apple might reconsider their whole design and try to match, yet maybe try to beat their competitors. I mean this is Apple we are talking about. Then again, they lost the vision when Jobs passed so let's see how it goes next year.
    I wait for the future...to COME back to BlackBerry!
  13. grahamf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calicocat2010 View Post
    I bet once BB10 releases and sales are very good, Apple might reconsider their whole design and try to match, yet maybe try to beat their competitors. I mean this is Apple we are talking about. Then again, they lost the vision when Jobs passed so let's see how it goes next year.
    This is Apple we're talking about. They won't do anything unless they can convince the masses that they invented it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes View Post
    You have to go to the home screen all the time for no reason if im browsing the web and i get a message why should i have to see a home screen first?
    Because you don't know any better?

    If a message comes in while you are in any app you have two ways of accessing it without ever touching the home button or going to the home screen. Tap the notification that appears at the top of the screen or pull down from the top of the screen if you didn't deal with it in time. Both of those will drop you straight into messages from wherever you are. Emails work the same way.

    You can also swipe directly into messages, emails, or other notifications directly from the lock screen. It really seems like most people posting criticisms of Apple/iOS have never used an iPhone for more than a couple of minutes.
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  15. ubizmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackedBarry View Post
    And is much more intuitive than on screen gestures. As an example, look at how intuitive the iPad is to use, with the home button that serves as a focus point for multitasking, taskswitching and other functions, and compare it with the Playbook that floundered in sales. The people that DID see it in store quickly gave up on operating it, with the multiple screen gestures and lack of home button.
    We've been over this before.

    Intuitions are learned. Yes, if people expect a home button, hard or virtual, then they need to be show how to do things a different way. That doesn't make gestures "counterintuitive".

    As one might surmise from my gray beard, I'm old enough to remember when turning on the high beams in my car involved tapping a button on the floor with my left foot. It was like that on every car I drove, and seemed utterly intuitive to me. Then they stopped putting that button down there, and relocated the function to the turn signal lever. Until someone showed me, I had no reason to guess that the turn signal level now controlled high beams too. It wasn't counterinuitive, or "harder"; just different. And it took about 3 seconds to learn (but I confess that for a few months I would sometimes tap my left foot on the button that wasn't there anymore).

    Yes, it was a mistake not to have signs or something in the stores that showed how to use the PB, precisely because it was/is an innovative interface. But none of that shows that a home button is any more (or less) inherently intuitive than gestures.
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  16. aha
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    Default Just Speculating. BB10 will kill the "home button".

    Today's Apple is like yesterday 's RIM. Today's RIM is like yesterday 's Apple.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grahamf View Post
    This is Apple we're talking about. They won't do anything unless they can convince the masses that they invented it.
    TRUTH or that the need it
  18. calicocat2010's Avatar
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    Ok, to put it in Another way. Apple will copy RIM in every way they can their Own way, make it Better and then make the public believe they invented it.
    I wait for the future...to COME back to BlackBerry!
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    Default Re: Just Speculating. BB10 will kill the "home button".

    Quote Originally Posted by grahamf View Post
    Technically they never did. Honeycomb had "virtual" home buttons that were moved onto the touchscreen, and in ICS it was moved back to a physical button (albeit Capacitive on most devices)
    You're very wrong here. Google implemented the button-less phone layout with ICS starting with the Galaxy Nexus, and although it's taking quite some time, companies are slowly starting to take advantage of it (Sony, Motorola, Acer already have their latest phones using this particular layout).

    Sent from the world's (once) most powerful smartphone.
  20. CrackedBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatperson View Post
    You're very wrong here. Google implemented the button-less phone layout with ICS starting with the Galaxy Nexus, and although it's taking quite some time, companies are slowly starting to take advantage of it (Sony, Motorola, Acer already have their latest phones using this particular layout).

    Sent from the world's (once) most powerful smartphone.
    The problem is however, that those virtual buttons take up screen space. A physical home button doesn't.
  21. CrackedBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubizmo View Post
    We've been over this before.

    Intuitions are learned. Yes, if people expect a home button, hard or virtual, then they need to be show how to do things a different way. That doesn't make gestures "counterintuitive".

    As one might surmise from my gray beard, I'm old enough to remember when turning on the high beams in my car involved tapping a button on the floor with my left foot. It was like that on every car I drove, and seemed utterly intuitive to me. Then they stopped putting that button down there, and relocated the function to the turn signal lever. Until someone showed me, I had no reason to guess that the turn signal level now controlled high beams too. It wasn't counterinuitive, or "harder"; just different. And it took about 3 seconds to learn (but I confess that for a few months I would sometimes tap my left foot on the button that wasn't there anymore).

    Yes, it was a mistake not to have signs or something in the stores that showed how to use the PB, precisely because it was/is an innovative interface. But none of that shows that a home button is any more (or less) inherently intuitive than gestures.
    Having only gestures is fundamentally counter intuitive first of all because it has to be learned. (There is only one way to press a button, but gestures can be from all sorts of directions, and can be different from platform to platform). Secondly, people are used to buttons. For well over a hundred years, people have been used to operate things by pressing a button is how you make things happen. And sorry, change just for changes sake is stupid.

    As for your excellent example with the high beams, please note that they moved the function ton something that is fundamentally a button. (albeit with more directions to be pressed in) They didn't implement a gesture where the high beams turn on when you wave your hand in a certain direction, though that would certainly be possible today.

    The fundamental layout of a car hasn't changed for close to a hundred years. There's a good reason for that, just like there's a good reason for keeping the home button.

    Now that doesn't mean that gestures are useless, they're not. I sure do appreciate being able to go from app to app just by swiping on my iPad. But a physical home button has some advantages that gestures can never replace. That's its intuitive is just one. It can also be operated without turning the device on, and it makes one handed operation easier.
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  22. CrackedBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorpalz View Post
    actually, frequently using iPads and owning iPods, the Home button works fine on a smaller device that you typically use in one hand, it helps orient the device and is easier to use. Where it is awkward is on a larger tablet, which you typically pick up and rotate frequently... where's the home button? Oh, it's on the top or side now, gotta reach up /over and hit it to get back to the home screen... clumsy implementation on the iPads.

    That's where the PB UI shines, it's conveniently functional at any orientation.
    Ehm, you don't NEED to press the home button to get back to the home screen on an iPad. There's a gesture for that. A pinch gesture will get you back to the home screen any time.

    Gestures isn't as new and revolutionary as some people make them out to be. They've been available on Android and iOS for quite awhile. But they also kept the home button, simply because a physical home button has some advantages that gestures by themselves can't have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackedBarry View Post
    The problem is however, that those virtual buttons take up screen space. A physical home button doesn't.
    Google's implementation doesn't do away with the buttons, but just moves them onto the screen where they take up real estate.
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  24. CrackedBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grahamf View Post
    That's not necessarily cause and effect. There are many reasons why the Playbook isn't popular (shipped with a lacking OS, retailers don't always properly set it up for display), but I assure you the gestures are not the problem. Especially with the very explainative sticker that explains the controls in a way that most people can understand (I'd say all people, but you prove that's not the case)
    Ooh! A thinly veiled insult... How cute! The last resort of the scoundrel, and the guy who's running out of arguments fast.

    Thank you very much for proving my point! On screen gestures are so counter intuitive, that RIM needed to put up stickers and cardboard signs to explain people how to turn on and use their tablet. That really speaks for itself, doesn't it?

    Contrast that with the iPad that ALSO have gestures to change apps or return to the home screen AS WELL as a physical home button. If they wanted to, they could have replaced that home button a long time ago. But a physical home button has advantages that you can't get with only gestures. One of those is that's its intuitive. You don't need to put on a sticker that explains how you need to press the button, people know that. We've been used to pressing buttons to make stuff happen for well over 100 years. That intuitive factor is good to hold on to alongside physical gestures.
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  25. Masahiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackedBarry View Post
    But a physical home button has advantages that you can't get with only gestures. One of those is that's its intuitive. You don't need to put on a sticker that explains how you need to press the button, people know that. We've been used to pressing buttons to make stuff happen for well over 100 years. That intuitive factor is good to hold on to alongside physical gestures.
    Meh. Physical keyboards were very intuitive at first, but look at things now...
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