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  1. IrishJK09's Avatar
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    Default Interesting take on iPhone and BlackBerry in the Enterprise

    DISCLAIMER: I DID NOT WRITE THIS!!!

    Credit for the thoughts conveyed goes to Alex Alexzander.

    Again, I did not write this, I am merely copying and pasting. I just feel that it is an interesting take on the BlackBerry and the iPhone in the Enterprise market from an ACTUAL Enterprise user. Not a BIS user that likes to throw around the term, "BlackBerry is for business," but an actual person with Enterprise experience.

    Take it as you will, just please don't shoot the messenger. I just feel it is a well written, alternate take on the "conception" of BlackBerry being the "only" device for business class use.


    "I don't know if you have actually used a BlackBerry or not. I have owned them a few times, and used my 8800 and 8310 for about a year with BES/Exchange. Since I am independent I rented the Exchange / BlackBerry Enterprise Services from Mail2Web.

    Here is a breakdown of the cost involved when I used one...

    Exchange Server for 1 GB of mail space...

    $14.95 mo.

    BlackBerry Enterprise Services

    $14.95 mo.

    AT&T Blackberry BES Data Plan

    $44.95 Mo.

    450 Minutes talk

    39.95 a month.

    I also had other services like SMS, TeleNav, but let's not even add those. The email alone is $30 in total for push with integrated calendar and address book and much less space than dot mac. With dot mac I am getting 10 times that for less than $8 a month. And in July, I get 20 times the storage, and push just like BlackBerry for the same $8 a month. In addition the data plan is $15 less a month than BES.

    What about software?

    RexWireless ToDoMatrix, Ascendo DataVault, JiveTalk, and a few others are hands down the best applications for the BlackBerry. And they don't hold a candle to the software on the iPhone. RexWireless is a fantastic ToDo app with nothing to compare it to on the iPhone at this time. However, just looking at the March 6th event, and the yesterday's WWDC event I can tell you the depth of the software on the iPhone is years ahead of BlackBerry.

    It's not just touch screen and a virtual keyboard. It's a platform architecture that separates the iPhone from the BlackBerry. All RIM is doing by adding TouchScreen to their Thunder is changing the method of input. The architecture of the operating system remains the same. Meaning you still have the concept of an Options key. You still have the same legacy technology driving the device. It's essentially a new skin on an older technology.

    Does Apple have anything to fear? Of course there are always unforeseen technologies in development. But so far Windows Mobile 6.1, BlackBerry Thunder, Treo devices and Nokia devices have nothing that effectively competes with the iPhone. Google's Android is perhaps the best competition I have seen to date.

    Now let me first explain a potential in the SmartPhone market. We may be seeing a large growth rate in SmartPhones. If this proves to be true, everyone could win, literally, and no losers. What I mean is simply this. Apple's iPhone may simply expand the market in which case iPhone, Android-based devices, Windows Mobile, and BlackBerry all gain in unit shipments in an expansion that takes marketshare from the one-billion standard hand-sets sold per year. In this case, everyone wins. BlackBerry experiences growth. Apple experiences growth. Windows Mobile experiences growth.

    But what if the pie is not expanding. What if the SmartPhone market is as large as it is going to get?

    In that case, I believe the iPhone will take marketshare away from RIM's BlackBerry, Microsoft's Windows Mobile, the Palm Treo, and Symbian based devices.

    RIM supporters love to say Enterprise this and that. Well, I am an Enterprise class customer. I use my iPhone for 95% business and 5% personal. When I was a member of the BlackBerry forum I can tell you I was in the minority for using a database, Push ToDo, and Push Travel software on my device. You know what most folks in that forum use? A call app which blocks certain calls from causing the phone to ring. Most used an IM client. Most used a spell-checker. Most used a email, and many, not most, used an HTML parse engine to see HTML mail as RIM does not provide this natively. Many, not most used a poor music app called FlipSide, and boasted at how great it is. It's seriously a joke compared to the iPod app in the iPhone. In fact the way you handle all entertainment on the BlackBerry is a joke compared to the iPhone eco system of management. Most of those folks in the forums are fanboys the same as most of us could be called a fanboy. We are here talking about the platform after all. We go to forums and read news about the platform, don't we? So to some extent, yes, we, you and me, could be called fans.

    Personally, I think many, dare I say most, of those RIM users are blind to what is really possible with the iPhone. They'd rather hang on to outdated ideals than face up to reality. I, just like they, said I wanted a physical keyboard. And yet here I am no longer caring for one. I said, as they do, that email on the BlackBerry is like no other. Well, that's true. No one else has such lame email as RIM. They have Push. They have Security. But the iPhone is releasing Push as well. And it's not tied to a NOC.

    They love to say big business won't be interested in iPhone. I hear this one a lot. Yet 35% of the fortune 500 is already in trials for the iPhone before the 2.0 release even hit. Now that speaks volumes in my opinion. Before the 2.0 release 35% of all fortune 500 companies are already considering it and dropping their existing smartphone. Why might that be? Look at the March 6th event. Look at the SalesForce.com demo. I was blown away by that. That software is so far and away better than anything RIM has ever seen in its existence and they did what we saw in 2 weeks. How can that not reveal the very definition of new generation versus old?

    Look how quickly developers can get a seemingly desktop quality experience on the iPhone versus a clunky mobile subset of an application on devices such as the BlackBerry.

    Good software is a business enabler. And I can tell big business agrees with me on this. They don't care about RIM. They don't care about Apple. They care about the tool. The better tool means they can better engage their clients. It's the software. It's the opportunity to have the tools you need when you need them. Mark my words, BlackBerry cannot compete with Apple. And their coveted enterprise markets are about to be pulled away from them. Not because of fanboy-ism. Not because it's cool. It's because the software is so much better. Applications like SalesForce.com are so easily better for sales people in the field that it will become the standard. It's going to be like comparing a full class word processor to a note pad. RIM has simplistic software. Software that is a subset and second-class. The iPhone has software far closer to desktop quality and this sets the bar out of reach of RIM.

    Adding touch screens and a virtual keyboard neglects the very core of what I am writing about. Does adding a touch-screen change the software and platform opportunity for RIM and its customers? No of course not. It merely changes the method of input. It's like saying a new keyboard and mouse changes the foundation of the computer. It doesn't do any such thing. The keyboard is merely the interface to the platform, not platform itself. Apple's wonderful touch-screen is not the iPhone's strength. It's merely part of the interface. The iPhone is so much better because the architecture is so much better. The Kernel, the optimized OSX operating system creates a mobile platform that is far and away better than RIM's simple Mobile OS. The touch screen is merely part of that system. For RIM to think that adding a touch-screen to their existing platform somehow brings them on par is not only ridiculous, it's almost offensive. It's like painting a clunker of a car and expecting me to believe it will somehow run like new again. Paint and the mechanics of the car have absolutely nothing to do with each other. And the fact that RIM appears to think so little of their customers is downright offensive to me. And it should be to you as well.

    RIMs must think we're all stupid or something. Of course they understand what truly separates their legacy device from a next generation device. And yet they show you some picture and attempt to infer that they are releasing something on par with the iPhone, when they are doing nothing of the kind. They didn't release the car mechanics to do an overhaul on their aging car. They sent out the painters to give it a new coat of paint with a gloss finish, and they mean to tell you that's all you want or need. Sorry, but it's not even close to reality.

    Ever wonder why good companies lose their markets right out from under themselves? It's because a market opportunity came and went. I write went, because what often happens is the current leader falsely believes they know their own market. If that were true, RIM would have better hardware that moved itself forward and closer to desktop quality. Instead, RIM has performed exactly like Palm. They are not far from what they started with. The current RIM architecture is all RIM has to offer. The mechanics are long since gone. And what is left is marketing and paint. Lot's of paint. Sorry sir, the food is awful, try some salt. No thank you, I'd rather something else to eat entirely. RIM's response; the food is fine, just needs a little more spice. Well, it's not at all true.

    I actually enjoy watching this sort of thing happen. Companies that are so well thought of exposed for what they are. One-trick ponies. RIM, the one-trick pony will do nothing but bring paint to an engineering fight. And they will leave humiliated and overwhelmed. And I'll chuckle years from now as I recount how I called this the same as I called the downfall of Circuit City, and the slow, but coming downfall of Sun Micro. Give customers what they demand, or watch as someone else does this and takes your market away from you."


    Take it as you will, but I think the man makes a few good points...
    Last edited by CrazEtooN; 06-13-2008 at 03:38 PM.
  2. IrishJK09's Avatar
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    So much for intelligent conversation....
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    Good read, but I still like my bb better than the iPhone. I don't like touch screens so that right there makes the iPhone a no no. I love Apple products though ( I own a Macbook, 6 different iPods). I think the new iPhone is going to be awesome, but I would rather get the bold because it is not touch. I do like my iPod touch though, only because I don't type on it, just flipping through music is great with a touch screen.
  4. jenaywins's Avatar
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    Hmm. A very interesting article with points I would have never thought of. I suppose I do understand where the author is coming from.. But. I think it's a bit harsh on RIM. Especially seeing as the Bold isn't even out yet with the new OS. All in all, I would think this article is a tad biased.. But perhaps it's me who's biased, as I really, really am not a fan of the iPhone at all. I was even a little bitter when my father told me last night he was thinking of purchasing one!

    Maybe I'm a minimalist, but my Curve allows me to do what I need to do. Period. Without all the fanfare of a heavily media-driven device. I'm quite happy with my phone just the way it is. Sure it's a little bulky, I don't have the best native browser ever, I don't have a fancy touch screen, and my phone isn't the newest and trendiest thing on the market. Oh well. It's reliable and when it comes down to it, it just works.

    All this excitement about the new iPhone is perfectly understandable.. It's new! It's pretty! It's flashy! It does lots of cool stuff! But hey.. guess what. The Next-Best-Thing is going to come out after the new iPhone, and people will be again mesmerized by a new shiny toy. Not to mention the fact that no one actually has the new iPhone, so we don't know what bugs and flaws it has yet. Is Apple going to advertise the bad points of the phone or its OS? Heck no! People will find out in time. On the other hand, people are all too aware of what flaws RIM's devices have and what shortcomings are there. So before we say just how much the iPhone is God's gift and how badly RIM sucks.. Let's wait for the phone to actually come out and make our own informed decisions.

    That's my 2 cents on this whole thing.
    ... and stuff!
  5. IrishJK09's Avatar
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    The iPhone 3G will use the same OS as the first iPhone. If it has bugs, they will be no different than the ones that have been worked on and squashed for the past year.

    OS 4.6 isn't entirely different so much as it is a few minor software features added on top of the old OS. This is the "add some spice to the food" mentality the author was talking about.

    Assuming I am understanding him correctly, it seems like he is saying that he has lived through several generations of RIM devices and has seen the minimal changes. I know I can agree because I have done the same thing.

    The point isn't so much that the iPhone destroys RIM and BlackBerry devices as it is that the OS is more capable and RIM needs to shed their complacency. If RIM would stop resting in the concept of safety due to their legacy, they might actually be able to go back to the drawing board and release a true next gen effort that has a true next gen OS offering.

    The thing that bothers me the most about RIM is that I can pull out my 2006 8703e and sit it next to my Curve, and I will see almost nothing different outside of the hardware. I can then go to a colleague of mine that still has a 7250, and again, it is hardly different than my Curve.

    Sure, they have added the "mini-menu," added some fonts, and upgraded the hardware; but the core architecture is still the same, and still presents the same limitations. This is also why the 3rd party app selection for the BlackBerry OS is so much smaller than Symbian, Palm, and Windows Mobile.

    You, me, or the entirety of the CrackBerry community may not "need" the improvements to be happy; a company, on the other hand, needs to keep its architecture inline with its competitors, lest they see their competitors one up them and steal their customers. I like to call this the "Ford-syndrome."
    Last edited by CrazEtooN; 06-13-2008 at 03:43 PM.
  6. jenaywins's Avatar
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    Very valid points, Toon. It certainly wouldn't be a bad idea for RIM to step their game up in response to recent developments by their competitors. This just doesn't seem to be their thing. It seems to me that RIM subscribes to the theory that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. They seem to want to stick to what has worked for them for so long. But I guess the question has to be asked.. With all the new pretties coming out, how long is that really going to work to keep RIM on top? I suppose at some point they are definitely going to have to go back to the drawing board and figure something out to stay ahead of the curve (no pun intended.)

    Apple seems to target a much younger, more fashionable demographic than RIM. However, the iPhone appears to appeal to the young and "old" alike. Even my father is gunning for an iPhone now. On the flip side of that, I have said this many times before and I will drive it home again... Devices like the iPhone, to me, are trendy. I doubt the average consumer is going to look at the iPhone and say, wow! Look at all those capabilities! Why, I can view the heck out of some spreadsheets on that bad boy! Doubt it. They will look at the phone and think, wow. This is the newest and best thing! And I love touchscreen! Etc, etc... So perhaps RIM's staying power is indeed due to the fact that they have stuck for so long with what has worked for them. People have come to know and trust Blackberries to do what they do well.

    I guess only time will tell what affect this new iPhone has on RIM and what its developers come out with next.
    ... and stuff!
  7. IrishJK09's Avatar
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    Therein lies my personal beef with RIM.

    I can't prescribe to the notion of accepting something just because it is fine when I know it can be better. DOS was a fine operating system, Word Perfect was a fine word processing application. These were once the pinnacles of their genres. Think about the advancements we have made since then; the advancements that came about from a need to improve, to innovate, to take it to the next level. Think how much better and stronger our choices for these types of things are in the present day. The ones we have to thank are the people that refused to just "accept it because it works."

    I will never doubt that the BlackBerry is fine in its current state and I will never say it isn't an acceptable platform. The BlackBerry is a good device for what it does, but we all know that it could be made better. RIM not taking steps to make it better bothers me on a very primal level because I know they are capable of more.

    Push email is not the amazing thing it once was. Security isn't the only selling point anymore. While RIM was a pioneer of an industry some 5-6 years ago, they have gotten fat and slow. Their upgrades are minimal, their software rarely changes. Worse than all of that is their inability to really listen to their customers.

    How long has HTML email been requested? How long has document storage, editing, and creating been desired? How long have people asked and begged for a BES like solution that caters to the individual? Where is the Desktop Manager software that Mac users have begged for? (I doubt DM software not coming to Mac has anything to do with the iPhone. It has been asked for since long before the iPhone was even released)

    Sure, RIM may release these things now. To be honest, I haven't a doubt in my mind that they won't. Look what it took to spur the movement though. Instead of listening to their customers, they waited for their competition to spring up and bring these things. They sat back until they had no choice but to act, and now they are just starting.

    If RIM rolls out a "BES for everyone" that is akin to Apple's MobileMe service, what else is there to thank for it? Sure, RIM will claim it has been something they have been working on for 3 years and that they always wanted to deliver it, but "something" held them back. Those of us with brains know that the only thing holding them back was complacency.

    I have been a BlackBerry fan for quite some time, and I have used their devices with much adoration. 5 months ago, I never would have agreed if someone told me I would have this view today. I swore, like many of you, that RIM was the King and nobody can mess with the King. The iPhone really is the device that woke me up from this deep slumber. The first time I owned an iPhone, I still didn't see it. I still looked at the surface more than I concentrated on the depth. I saw that it didn't have MMS, it didn't have this, it didn't have that, and I gave up, I sold it.

    I was prodded into watching the Apple SDK keynote from March, and watch it I did, very begrudgingly I might add. I sat there irritated as I saw Mr. Jobs rave about the new direction the —lackluster in my opinion from the time— "Jesus-phone" was going. I scoffed and laughed, and swore it would never happen. I watched anyway, and 1 hour later, I sat back and chuckled at my own ignorance. Still skeptical, I watched it one more time and skipped to the parts that caught my attention. Fast forward another 30 minutes and I finally realized what made the iPhone so special: Potential.

    Jobs and Co. have released a product that has absolutely AMAZING potential packed into its trendy and sleek little body. Some people, like yourself, have a hard time looking past that trendy exterior, and I can't fault you for it. Once you do though, you can really see what it is capable of. I am not saying that it will instantly make you want to ditch RIM and jump ship to the world of the fruit, but it might make you realize what I did. And that is that I was accepting RIM and the BlackBerry just because "it worked." I was selling myself short by not expecting more, and not being given what I should have gotten. I started looking deeper into the architecture of the system instead of the surface features, and it really bothered me.

    I honestly felt like I had been hooked like a fish. I was taken by a shiny lure that hid some nasty secrets. I understood that I was accepting something just because it was acceptable, and to me, accepting something just because it is acceptable should not be accepted.

    BlackBerry and RIM still hold a special place in the smartphone category of my heart, but they need to step up and deliver what I know they can before they get my loyalty again. I think this is the thing that bothers me the most about the iPhone hate on this forum coupled with the sickening BlackBerry devotion. It is a sign of people selling themselves short and accepting something "because it works," instead of questioning why they aren't being given better.
    Last edited by CrazEtooN; 06-14-2008 at 11:15 PM. Reason: Fixed something
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    Very good reading... very good. This is exactly what I've been thinking to myself. Like toon said, I'm looking at my 7290, 8700c, Curve & Pearl (in front of me as we speak, next to my iPhone, lol.) and they are all the same devices, different "paint" job, smaller frame. Coming from Treos/WinSlow, BB was the obvious choice for me. The memory leaks weren't too bad and one quick battery pull would do it. Now that the iPhone has come, it has totally changed the game plan. You can tell every and I mean EVERY manufacturer sees that Apple is about to run away with the gold. Nokia... "I have the iPhone Killer" RIM... "I have the iPhone Killer" Samsung (Instinct)... "I have the iPhone Killer" LG... ""We have the iPhone Killer" and not once have I heard from these companies, "I have the Nokia/RIM/Samsung/LG killer" because they were all on the step plateau. It's 1 out, Apple's at 3rd base and almost anything can bring them home... These companies are trying to strike the batter (Apple) out and forget they need to change their game plan. They need to walk the a man on to first base and home for a double play.

    Jenay... thanks for the add Were you able to watch the keynote from WWDC? The iPhone is no longer just a Wow. We have the U.S. Army testing this device now. That means the iPhone isn't just appealing to little kids and is catching the eye of other Fortune 500 companies. Now that security + exchange is on this device, the possibilities are endless. IMO, Nokia and RIM are the only ones capable of striking Apple out, but will they change their game plan up?


    The below quote is so true...

    Personally, I think many, dare I say most, of those RIM users are blind to what is really possible with the iPhone. They'd rather hang on to outdated ideals than face up to reality. I, just like they, said I wanted a physical keyboard. And yet here I am no longer caring for one. I said, as they do, that email on the BlackBerry is like no other. Well, that's true. No one else has such lame email as RIM. They have Push. They have Security. But the iPhone is releasing Push as well. And it's not tied to a NOC.
    Me... I'm for technology and growt, but honestly the thunder is a slap in the face and not with their hands either (ewww.)
    Last edited by Jayden0606; 06-14-2008 at 08:55 PM.
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    this will open a different view point for many ppl. n its tru. but i'll wait till the bold comes out to finally decide. but yeah, RIM does need to step their game up n release what they have "been working on for 3 years" already. in the keynote, the things that caught my attn was the medical app and the games. very very good. n to create something like that in a short matter of time was incredible. n i too was thinking about the OS on thunder. i was definitely wondering whether it was gonna be someting simliar to like what other previous devices have, exactly the same as other BBs, or something better than apple's. i mean for the thunder to be an iphone killer, it would have to make a UI that blows iphone n be able to outperform it. n be able to have at least the same amount of potential. im still gonna be tru to RIM, until the ship sinks. but i doubt it will. to be honest, this is my first smartphone ever n coming from a no contract, crappy device selling company *cough* metro pos *cough* My Berry is like heaven...
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    I honestly want devices beating the iPhone. For us consumers, it means more intuitive products... It means cheaper (8gb/16gb @ $199/$299 respectively)... It means better 3rd party and built in software (MobileMe)

    One reason I will never be a fanboy for any company is because I know they could care less about me... They love my pockets... I will though give respect when it's due.
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  11. IrishJK09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayden0606 View Post
    I honestly want devices beating the iPhone. For us consumers, it means more intuitive products... It means cheaper (8gb/16gb @ $199/$299 respectively)... It means better 3rd party and built in software (MobileMe)

    One reason I will never be a fanboy for any company is because I know they could care less about me... They love my pockets... I will though give respect when it's due.
    I agree, but my wallet hates the idea...

    I think that if anyone is poised to "out-innovate" Apple, it is Google with their Android OS. The only thing that scares me about Android is that it is going the Windows Mobile route of being an OS that is applied to various devices by various companies.

    I can't image the big "G" allowing their OS to be as fundamentally awful as Windows Mobile though, so it should work out well enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazEtooN View Post
    Therein lies my personal beef with RIM.

    I can't prescribe to the notion of accepting something just because it is fine when I know it can be better. DOS was a fine operating system, Word Perfect was a fine word processing application. These were once the pinnacles of their genres. Think about the advancements we have made since then; the advancements that came about from a need to improve, to innovate, to take it to the next level. Think how much better and stronger our choices for these types of things are in the present day. The ones we have to thank are the people that refused to just "accept it because it works."

    I will never doubt that the BlackBerry is fine in its current state and I will never say it isn't an acceptable platform. The BlackBerry is a good device for what it does, but we all know that it could be made better. RIM not taking steps to make it better bothers me on a very primal level because I know they are capable of more.

    Push email is not the amazing thing it once was. Security isn't the only selling point anymore. While RIM was a pioneer of an industry some 5-6 years ago, they have gotten fat and slow. Their upgrades are minimal, their software rarely changes. Worse than all of that is their inability to really listen to their customers.

    How long has HTML email been requested? How long has document storage, editing, and creating been desired? How long have people asked and begged for a BES like solution that caters to the individual? Where is the Desktop Manager software that Mac users have begged for? (I doubt DM software not coming to Mac has anything to do with the iPhone. It has been asked for since long before the iPhone was even released)

    Sure, RIM may release these things now. To be honest, I haven't a doubt in my mind that they won't. Look what it took to spur the movement though. Instead of listening to their customers, they waited for their competition to spring up and bring these things. They sat back until they had no choice but to act, and now they are just starting.

    If RIM rolls out a "BES for everyone" that is akin to Apple's MobileMe service, what else is there to thank for it? Sure, RIM will claim it has been something they have been working on for 3 years and that they always wanted to deliver it, but "something" held them back. Those of us with brains know that the only thing holding them back was complacency.

    I have been a BlackBerry fan for quite some time, and I have used their devices with much adoration. 5 months ago, I never would have agreed if someone told me I would have this view today. I swore, like many of you, that RIM was the King and nobody can mess with the King. The iPhone really is the device that woke me up from this deep slumber. The first time I owned an iPhone, I still didn't see it. I still looked at the surface more than I concentrated on the depth. I saw that it didn't have MMS, it didn't have this, it didn't have that, and I gave up, I sold it.

    I was prodded into watching the Apple SDK keynote from March, and watch it I did, very begrudgingly I might add. I sat there irritated as I saw Mr. Jobs rave about the new direction the —lackluster in my opinion from the time— "Jesus-phone" was going. I scoffed and laughed, and swore it would never happen. I watched anyway, and 1 hour later, I sat back and chuckled at my own ignorance. Still skeptical, I watched it one more time and skipped to the parts that caught my attention. Fast forward another 30 minutes and I finally realized what made the iPhone so special: Potential.

    Jobs and Co. have released a product that has absolutely AMAZING potential packed into its trendy and sleek little body. Some people, like yourself, have a hard time looking past that trendy exterior, and I can't fault you for it. Once you do though, you can really see what it is capable of. I am not saying that it will instantly make you want to ditch RIM and jump ship to the world of the fruit, but it might make you realize what I did. And that is that I was accepting RIM and the BlackBerry just because "it worked." I was selling myself short by not expecting more, and not being given what I should have gotten. I started looking deeper into the architecture of the system instead of the surface features, and it really bothered me.

    I honestly felt like I had been hooked like a fish. I was taken by a shiny lure that hid some nasty secrets. I understood that I was accepting something just because it was acceptable, and to me, accepting something just because it is acceptable should not be accepted.

    BlackBerry and RIM still hold a special place in the smartphone category of my heart, but they need to step up and deliver what I know they can before they get my loyalty again. I think this is the thing that bothers me the most about the iPhone hate on this forum coupled with the sickening BlackBerry devotion. It is a sign of people selling themselves short and accepting something "because it works," instead of questioning why they aren't being given better.
    Agreed for the most part. It seems like RIM has been getting slower in pushing upgrades because of the near monopoly it has in the enterprise market. This is econ 101: characteristics of a monopoly...if there is no competition and comsumers have no choice...why try hard? This is natural to all companies in this position. RIM prides itself on stability...they just work and for people in the enterprise...they don't care about the gimmicks. They just care about what works


    However; as you said, they recognized the threat from Apple and Google and therefore pushed hard to develop OS 4.6 with HTML viewing, editing words, excel and ppt in NATIVE format, saving and sending it on device also.
    They have improved the browser on 9000 (I have a protoype) and things are just extremely smooth. (I loaded the national gepgraphic page that was loaded during the WWDC demo and only took me 5 seconds vs. 15 or something on Iphone)

    I'm glad Apple is in the picture, which means we will get better products from both companies...The UI on Apple is fresh and innovative but remember to analize it in a fair way. Apple is alot about hype, gimmicks and tricks (case in point their "cheaper" Iphone will be costing more per month on data plan so in the long run, it's more expensive )

    Thx for bringing up a great discussion
  13. JasonHDD's Avatar
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    The author is right about the Fortune %00 co's and he's right about alot of the things in his article. He is leaning Apple way a little bit though. But he makes some VERY valid points. And time will tell. I have to agree that, if RIM doen't upgrade, actually upgrade their phones as a whole, they are going to lose quite a bit of business. Not mine, but alot of others......
  14. Arninetyes's Avatar
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    All the good points about the iPhone are interesting, and many are quite valid. I'm not a RIM fanboy, I just know the Curve is the best phone/PDA I've had yet.

    There is a major, major problem with the iPhone - and I'm not talking about the crappy phone part - that can be fixed at any time. The problem is that Apple has wedded the iPhone to ATT. In my job and in the area in which I live, ATT is a DISTANT second in coverage to Verizon - it's not even close. I'm not a fan of Verizon, but I stay with them ONLY because of the coverage.

    Consequently, for the next four years, I won't care if the iPhone absolutely stomps the BB in every way possible - ATT is of no use to me.

    I do hope that RIM really does see the writing on the wall and updates their OS - not little, incremental updates, but big revolutionary updates.

    I mean, look at the computer OS - 10 years ago, Macintosh was dying on the vine, very few people even heard of Linux, and Windows was king of the world.

    Today, while Windows is still the top OS, it is losing marketshare rapidly to the Mac and Linux - take a look at the percentage of webservers that are now Linux. Unless Windows 7 is a HUGE improvement, that marketshare will continue to erode.

    RIM needs to take note.
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    Quote Originally Posted by avt123 View Post
    Good read, but I still like my bb better than the iPhone. I don't like touch screens so that right there makes the iPhone a no no. I love Apple products though ( I own a Macbook, 6 different iPods). I think the new iPhone is going to be awesome, but I would rather get the bold because it is not touch. I do like my iPod touch though, only because I don't type on it, just flipping through music is great with a touch screen.
    well said.

    i am an apple fanatic.

    i have many of their products and love em. but i just cant deal w/ the touch screen on the iphone.

    i send 23k texts a month. theres no way in **** id be able to keep that volume with a touch screen lol.
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    With the Army testing the iPhone in the field, I wonder how much of it is actually the Army looking at it as legit (which may be possible), and how much of it is the soldiers/officer wanting the newest hip phone from Apple and them working to oblige those who serve under them?
    I was a Treo user. Then the light of BlackBerry shone, and I was never the same.
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    The Kernel, the optimized OSX operating system creates a mobile platform that is far and away better than RIM's simple Mobile OS. The touch screen is merely part of that system. For RIM to think that adding a touch-screen to their existing platform somehow brings them on par is not only ridiculous, it's almost offensive.
    That's a pretty broad assumption, isn't it?

    The Thunder is months away from release and I suspect that it's been in development for a long time. Virtually nothing is known about it except that it has a touchscreen. I doubt if they're going to release a complete overhaul of the BlackBerry OS in the Fall but there's certainly no reason to assume that it's never going to happen, and market pressure from Apple is just what they need to actually get off their arse and do it.

    Personally, as much as I admire the iPhone, the platform's roadmap, and the upcoming V2 hardware, it has one major flaw: AT&T. While their coverage and uptime isn't awful, Verizon's is second to none, and with Vodaphone involved now and LTE on the way it's just going to get better, and get better faster than AT&T will, who still hasn't fully built out 3G yet!

    And btw, the author mentions that the Army is testing it...for what? According to something I read (but didn't bookmark, sorry), Verizon just got a contract to sell more than 100,000 Blackberry's to the FBI, CIA, and DHS. At least one of those departments knows more than a little about security and they all understand the importance of coverage and uptime. No doubt they looked at the iPhone because it's a better software platform for them to write proprietary apps with, but instead they went with RIM and Verizon anyway.

    Why? Don't tell me it was a financial decision, today's US government spends money like drunken sailors so that wasn't an issue. Something else was. My guess is that on balance they decided that RIM+Verizon just suited their needs better, as specialized as those needs may be.
  18. asloman's Avatar
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    Default I think this article is relevent to this discussion

    Last edited by asloman; 06-16-2008 at 06:44 AM.
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    Based on the author's usage, I wouldn't consider him an "Enterprise class customer." Enterprise users are based on a BES that is hosted by the company they work for - they don't pay mail2web for BES services! Additionally, most real enterprise customers need (not want, but need) one main thing from their BB: reliable, fast email. The BB does that extremely well. BB batteries can last for days - why is that? Many bells and whistles which eat through the battery are not present.

    The BB is first and foremost a business device - it isn't there for music, games, 3rd party apps, etc. It is meant to be mobile Outlook/LN. That's it, and it does that very well.

    Now that BB wants to compete in the consumer market, it has to create devices that will compete with the iPhone, offering multimedia, games, etc. However, if the iPhone wants to compete in the true enterprise world, it has to prove to be a completely reliable, secure device. AFAIK, that hasn't happened yet.
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    interesting article too...it just goes to show the extent of why Blackberries are called Crackberries and Apple lovers are called fanboys. I do think that Apple changed the game with their iphone, but by doing so didn't supplant RIM at the top. Apple made the smartphone market explode to where both brands saw increased sales and profits.

    The real question is whether or not the smartphone market will take over the mobile communication segment, or if this is just a fad for consumer level devices. Can the growth be sustained?

    If not, both companies will need to work to stay on top. And by then throwing Android into the mix will certainly make the market dicey.

    Apple will have stunted growth until they release on multiple carriers. The battles between At&t and Verizon are more hardcore than any apple/Rim battle. In Enterprise, apple will need to prove that they are secure devices. That will only happen with time.

    RIM needs to realize that they cannot rest on their laurels and lead the market. Apple upped the game and Rim needs to offer some new tech. Will the Bold or the Thunder do that? Only time will tell. RIM is in a good position because they are on multiple carriers, with multiple devices, that they can update with out losing a step. Apple had their problems over the last couple of months because they didn't have somewhere to send consumers when the iphone was out of stock. RIM has that ability by upselling to a 8800 or soon the Bold, or downselling to a pearl.

    Android will be the sleeper in this discussion, because it is an OS and not a device. They are working with most of the major players in the cell phone industry, and making a software that is seamlessly integrated to the web through google. The question is will they have an enterprise solution? And when they do, watch out because google will be hard to top on the web integration front.
  21. TampaDude's Avatar
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    The bottom line is...competition is a GOOD thing...the consumer WINS...
  22. IrishJK09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HofstraJet View Post
    Based on the author's usage, I wouldn't consider him an "Enterprise class customer." Enterprise users are based on a BES that is hosted by the company they work for - they don't pay mail2web for BES services! Additionally, most real enterprise customers need (not want, but need) one main thing from their BB: reliable, fast email. The BB does that extremely well. BB batteries can last for days - why is that? Many bells and whistles which eat through the battery are not present.
    How can you possibly consider them different? A BES users is a BES user regardless of where their BES is hosted. If their company hosts it, they are a BES user that is lucky enough to not have to pay out of pocket for it. If they are an independent contractor with no company to front the ridiculous cost of a BES solution, they use a 3rd party hosting service, and they are a BES user all the same.

    Why is a corporate employee more of a BES user than an independent contractor like a salesperson, or a real estate agent? What about freelance journalists that write for numerous publications? What about non-captive insurance agents?

    The host site of the BES is irrelevant. The actual difference is that a person paying out of pocket for hosted BES is doing it because they know they need it, while a corporate employee was more than likely handed a BlackBerry and was told they need it.

    EDIT: I personally feel that Android is poised to be the "one ring that rules them all." I love the iPhone, and I still have love for BlackBerry and RIM, despite their apparent complacency, but I think Android could very well dominate both of them if it is actually handled properly. I am really excited to see how it turns out in the coming months...

    I am such a geek...
    Last edited by CrazEtooN; 06-16-2008 at 02:35 PM.
  23. karledice's Avatar
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    With whatever I said in the previous page; just wanted to add that the original article posted is extremely biased and has no concerete proof. As someone said, how can you make so much assumtions on something that hasn't even been released...also he kept making the same point over and over and over so that whole article maybe has two valid points...

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