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  1. mozartpc27's Avatar
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    Default I'm worried... tell me why I shouldn't be.

    I have been one of BlackBerry's staunchest supporters since I got my first one, very late in the game, in February 2010 (BlackBerry Storm2, the model I still have). I've added a Playbook since then, the virtues of which I extol to anyone who will listen, to the point that they probably don't want to talk to me about tech stuff anymore. I have steadfastly maintained that I will be buying a BlackBerry 10 phone the very minute they are available.

    The other day, though, I went to Best Buy and took a look at a Windows 8 desktop.

    I kind of want one now (and I think I am going to get one, seeing how I just got a promotion), but, more to the point, I am now officially worried.

    One of the first things I noticed is that the big thing that we keep hearing about BlackBerry 10, the central upgrade to the mobile experience that this OS is supposed to represent, is the "always in" application experience. The Windows 8 platform I looked at had the same essential experience - swiping between applications - only it did it even slightly better than say the Playbook, because it allowed you to leave two apps visible, side by side, with a simple swiping gesture. If this feature is on Windows 8 PCs, I imagine it will also be on Windows 8 tablet/phones. In other words, the key "distinguishing" feature of BlackBerry 10 has now already been done, and done better, by Microsoft.

    Are BlackBerry 10 phones out of date before hitting market?

    The other issue for me is admittedly an aesthetic preference. RIM likes to call BlackBerry 10 a "mobile computing platform." That suggests, to me, something I've always coveted: unity among all devices in terms of operating system. Apple offers that with the iPad/iPhone, but, at this point in time, still makes a major mistake (IMHO) in not having their true "computers" (Macbooks, iMacs, etc.) on the same OS. I hear that will be changing (finally). RIM will begin to offer it with Playbook/BB10. But without the critical component - a fully-functional PC - I think it falls short of its stated goal of "mobile computing." IOW, to compete with MS in my mind, RIM would have to license its BB10 OS to a company willing to make laptops/desktops on the platform.

    This is now what Microsoft is doing: one OS for all devices - PCs, tablets, and phones.

    I will probably buy that Windows 8 desktop, and it may well make me reconsider the purchase of a BB10 phone. Maybe my next purchase should be a Windows 8 phone.

    Tell me why I am wrong/I should stick with BB10.
  2. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    Why in heaven's name do you need other people to help you make up your own mind? If the Windows ecosystem works for you, by all means go with it.
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  3. hpjrt's Avatar
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    First of all, worrying will get you nothing but ulcers. If it's something you can't do anything about, then what is the point of worrying?

    In my humble opinion, BB10 is not "out of date" before it comes out. BB10 will be fabulous and all you need do is read the countless articles and view the many videos dedicated to the various leaks and features.

    I'm not going to take the time to explain why you shouldn't worry. Do your own research.

    If Windows is what you want - get it - although I fail to see what the Win 8 desktop has to do with the question.

    Buy what you need for you.
    Last edited by hpjrt; 11-15-2012 at 04:02 PM.
    Posted using my 32 gig Playbook - and 9 times out of 10, my new BB OEM mini keyboard
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  4. moegumby's Avatar
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    Default I'm worried... tell me why I shouldn't be.

    I kinda with you there, also I seem pictures of the L next to the IPhone, and the caption "which would you choose". That being said, I wasn't impressed with the IPhone 5, just a stretched out 4, should have made the screen wider! Looking at the L, I have the same feeling, should be a wider screen and 4.5 min. As for the article on which would you choose? The one with the APPS that I want. That's where IPhone Wins! Rim better up their game with popular cross platform apps and games. Windows Phone 8 is pushing that hard because they realize its not just the OS it's the infrastructure (apps).


    Sent from my iPhone 4
  5. simu31's Avatar
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    You can't be wrong, if that is your opinion about your needs. And I don't think you'll find too many people here willing to expend their time telling you that you're wrong, because it is an individual choice.

    Personally, I think you're wrong about how close in similarities Windows8 is with BB10, but time will tell.

    From what I've seen, and what I've been told about what is deeper down, I believe that Microsoft have made massive mistake in presuming what the general public want from their interactions with their PCs... but time will tell for this too.

    Either way, if you want a Windows Phone, and believe that will answer your needs, then get one... What's the worst that could happen??

    Si.
  6. simu31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moegumby View Post
    Windows Phone 8 is pushing that hard because they realize its not just the OS it's the infrastructure (apps).
    Would that "realisation" [that they need a good ecosystem], be by the same company that didn't release the native SDKs for developers until days before the official phone release?? ....Yeah, way to show developers and potential customers that you "realise" how important apps are!

    Si.
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  7. mozartpc27's Avatar
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    I suppose this thread came out wrong. I really didn't intend it to be about ME and my needs, but rather about whether RIM has been outflanked again. From what I've seen of Windows 8, it already does THE THING that was supposed to make BlackBerry 10 revolutionary, and does it better.

    Maybe I am wrong about what is supposed to make BB10 revolutionary. Maybe there is more to it. Maybe I am wrong about what Windows 8 on the phones can actually do. But if I'm not, and Windows 8 phones are every bit as multi-tasking friendly as BB10 phones... what exactly does that leave BB10 with?

    That is why I am "worried." I want BB10 to succeed. I want to believe it is as good as the best phone on the market. But I saw something today that has shaken my belief. I was hoping you all might be able to restore it, or join me in bemoaning the end of the world.

    Either way.
  8. sam_b77's Avatar
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    Just to make a point, Windows 8 and Windows PHONE 8 are two different things. Since RIM doesn't make a laptop they don't need to worry about Windows 8 and what it does. Windows Phone 8 however doesn't do what you described. It has, multitasking but you need to press and hold the back key to display the open programs. And also to close a program is a pain. You need to keep pressing back key till you have reached to the home screen and press back again to close it. Please try Windows Phone 8 before you compare it to BB10. Win 8 doesn't offer a glimpse into what WP8 is.
    Through the Years :2001 Ericsson T29s> Sony Z5> Sony Z7> SE Z600>Moto A760> RAZR V3>Razr V3i>BB 8800>BB 9500 >BB 9800>Bold 9900..RIM Returns with a bang

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  9. sandmanfvr's Avatar
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    Its technology, chill out. I am a geek by trade and owned every smart phone os out there, so I am jumping around but if you like something, get it. IF windows 8 and windows phone 8 work for you, then RIM will not get your business and that is fine, it is your money. I don't know what my next and better smart phone will be, as web os has died, windows phone is lagging especially on sprint, and now I want RIM to succeed, but they may not (I think BB 10 will). For those like you and me that love tech, save your pennies and then do Craigslist etc. I can't spend all my money on new tech but sometimes you got to try used stuff (like windows phone) and then get a cheap windows 8 laptop, their are some for $300, if you don't like it trade it in and move on. I do this all the time, drives my wife crazy.
  10. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
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    #10  

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    1. Life is too short to worry. Let it go.

    2. For me, I expect a PC or laptop to do more than a mobile device.

    3. For me, I'm not concerned at all if Windows does something first before RIM. I will wait to see the BB 10 phone, and then decide what phone suits my needs.

    4. I don't need to buy a PC or laptop as often as I buy my mobile phones.

    All of this is just my not so humble opinion that its not worth worrying about what Windows is doing.
    Last edited by TequilaAddict; 11-15-2012 at 04:39 PM.
    ~DENISE~
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    PLEASE STOP WITH THE LONG POSTS! YOU'RE BORING US.
  11. cjcampbell's Avatar
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    #11  

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    Like the others have said, if it's what you want, then go right ahead but bear in mind that Windows 8 desktop is not the same OS as WP8. They have the same look with the tiles but they are not the same. Also, depending on what your communication needs are, there is no unified messaging "hub" so you will need to open each app individually to see what messages you have, whereas BB10 will sort it nicely in one unified space.
  12. mozartpc27's Avatar
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    Default

    sam_b77 & cjcampbell, thanks for pointing that out about Windows Phone 8. I just assumed it was the same across all platforms. Shows you what you get when you assume!

    Faith in the future of BB10 restored!
  13. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozartpc27 View Post
    sam_b77 & cjcampbell, thanks for pointing that out about Windows Phone 8. I just assumed it was the same across all platforms. Shows you what you get when you assume!

    Faith in the future of BB10 restored!
    One more point to consider.... you have a PlayBook. Having a updated BlackBerry will be a huge improvement over your Storm.
    ~DENISE~
    YES, I DO BELIEVE THAT I AM WORTH IT!

    PLEASE STOP WITH THE LONG POSTS! YOU'RE BORING US.
  14. daveycrocket's Avatar
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    It depends what your needs are, if you want a phone that stores most of it's data in a cloud and you don't mind that BB10 can do it, windows phone 8 can do it. If you want a phone that can do all of the above plus be interactive/sync with your computer without first connecting with a cloud BB10 can do it windows phone cannot.
    If you would like to be able to download data off your phone via usb or wifi to your PC or Mac BB10 can, windows phone is limited, if you want to be able to store data on a SD card BB10 can, windows phone doesn't have one (unless this has now changed) I could go on.
    There are many features which need internet connection for example pictures, when looking into windows phone 7 there were only shortcut thumbnails on the phone, the actual pictures are uploaded. Computer documents have to be uploaded, I think skydrive, before being viewed on a phone.
    I was on the forum for windows phone 7 during its development (I even won a prize) and most of the above is drawn from that experience, I personally would never go back to useing a windows phone as it feels very limited to me.
    There are no other phones in my opinion which have the same degree of flexibility or security than BlackBerry so I look forward to my first BB10.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozartpc27 View Post
    I suppose this thread came out wrong. I really didn't intend it to be about ME and my needs, but rather about whether RIM has been outflanked again. From what I've seen of Windows 8, it already does THE THING that was supposed to make BlackBerry 10 revolutionary, and does it better.
    Let me ask you a question first. Why do you think RIM's outflanked when only a handful of people know how BB10 entirely works and how it's features are? Unless you have a crystal ball or BB10 is released, I don't think it's a fair comparison between WP8 and BB10. RIM have held their cards close, so I would say wait till 01/30 to check what BB10 has in store, and then make a comparison of the two OS.
    Children of tomorrow live in the tears that fall today
    Will the sunrise of tomorrow bring in peace in any way?
    Must the world live in the shadow of atomic fear?
    Can they win the fight for peace or will they disappear?

    -- Black Sabbath: Children of the Grave
  16. mozartpc27's Avatar
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    Cesare21, it's no secret that the thing that all advanced discussion of BB10 has focused on is their "always-in" model for apps. It's what the producers themselves have pushed as revolutionizing the mobile experience. When I played with Windows 8 today, I found a similar - even a slightly more advanced - experience already on the market. I assumed that the Windows PHONE 8 would be largely identical to the PC OS, so I thought that meant that the keynote feature of BB10, which again has not been any sort of a secret, had now already been done and published by another producer.

    I was wrong, but that was my line of reasoning.
  17. Cesare21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozartpc27 View Post
    Cesare21, it's no secret that the thing that all advanced discussion of BB10 has focused on is their "always-in" model for apps. It's what the producers themselves have pushed as revolutionizing the mobile experience. When I played with Windows 8 today, I found a similar - even a slightly more advanced - experience already on the market. I assumed that the Windows PHONE 8 would be largely identical to the PC OS, so I thought that meant that the keynote feature of BB10, which again has not been any sort of a secret, had now already been done and published by another producer.

    I was wrong, but that was my line of reasoning.
    See I'm not trying to be harsh, on the contrary, I think there is nothing too much to worry about for now. The main differentiating point would be how well any idea (including the always in paradigm) is executed and how soon customers pick this up.
    Children of tomorrow live in the tears that fall today
    Will the sunrise of tomorrow bring in peace in any way?
    Must the world live in the shadow of atomic fear?
    Can they win the fight for peace or will they disappear?

    -- Black Sabbath: Children of the Grave
  18. nocturnal123's Avatar
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    #18  

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    The WP8 and BB10 are different devices and have different software, BB10 has that we all are aware of is the Time Warp feature for the camera which nobody else has at this time which I hope they patent immediately. To my count the only thing WP8 and BB10 share at this point is the active tiles and imo WP8 looks stupid with that home screen with all the tiles. Out of 4 or 5 features we know that BB10 will have there is only one that it shares with WP8 to my knowledge I could be wrong havent seen a WP8 nor a BB10 in person.
  19. tharrison4815's Avatar
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    I'm a big fan of Windows 8, a very big fan. But not as much as BB10.

    Windows 8 is great but the core of BB10 for me is the perfect multitasking.

    In BB10 you literally run your apps all at once and switch between them and close them exactly as you would expect.
    In Windows 8, yes you can run two apps at once but that's it. The multitasking system in W8 is very messy too, it works like Android 4.0+ where the list of apps is not running apps but recently opened apps.
    If you close an app in task manager or it crashes or closes itself it will still show on the list.
    If you specifically want to close an app because let's say it's crashed or some other reason, you do the drag down technique to close it may or may not close depending on how the app is designed, or it may take several seconds to close but there is no indication of whether it has or not, and if you relaunch before it finishes closing it cancels the close request.
    Also if you open more apps than the height/resolution of your monitor can display, instead on turning into a scrolling list it will just stop showing the oldest item on the list even though it's still an open app.

    Without using the task manager in desktop mode there's no definitive way to control apps. Metro task management is just messy IMO. And to me task management is important and should integrate seamlessly into the UI.

    Personally I don't like apps suspending and carrying on where I left them. I prefer to control specifically which apps are running and when. I prefer manual control over my task management, and only BB10 (and PlayBook OS) seems to deliver this.
    gokulesh and Thunderbuck like this.
  20. Superfly_FR's Avatar

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    Don't know why this popped in my mind while reading all this ... must be late.
    Dady goes to bed now.
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  21. TheScionicMan's Avatar
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    #21  

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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnal123 View Post
    The WP8 and BB10 are different devices and have different software, BB10 has that we all are aware of is the Time Warp feature for the camera which nobody else has at this time which I hope they patent immediately. To my count the only thing WP8 and BB10 share at this point is the active tiles and imo WP8 looks stupid with that home screen with all the tiles. Out of 4 or 5 features we know that BB10 will have there is only one that it shares with WP8 to my knowledge I could be wrong havent seen a WP8 nor a BB10 in person.
    It's not their technology to patent. They licensed it from Scalado which I think got purchased by Nokia.
    "Distrust and caution are the parents of security." -Benjamin Franklin
  22. TheScionicMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozartpc27 View Post
    This is now what Microsoft is doing: one OS for all devices - PCs, tablets, and phones.
    That is what they'd LIKE to do, but they're a ways off. They are still making 3 OSes, Win8, RT and WP8
    "Distrust and caution are the parents of security." -Benjamin Franklin
  23. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheScionicMan View Post
    That is what they'd LIKE to do, but they're a ways off. They are still making 3 OSes, Win8, RT and WP8
    My understanding is that RT and WP actually share a codebase. Maybe not identical, but very close to it. That was part of the idea; hopefully someday we'd see one single, monolithic Windows.
  24. TheScionicMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    My understanding is that RT and WP actually share a codebase. Maybe not identical, but very close to it. That was part of the idea; hopefully someday we'd see one single, monolithic Windows.
    With the size of the RT OS, they must have "shared" every part of Win8 into it and added the rest on top. It may share a lot, but there's still big differences, especially for people that think they will be running their legacy EXEs across all devices...

    Sometimes, trying to make one thing do too many things can cause a lot of bloat.
    "Distrust and caution are the parents of security." -Benjamin Franklin
  25. knowledge_6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozartpc27 View Post
    I have been one of BlackBerry's staunchest supporters since I got my first one, very late in the game, in February 2010 (BlackBerry Storm2, the model I still have). I've added a Playbook since then, the virtues of which I extol to anyone who will listen, to the point that they probably don't want to talk to me about tech stuff anymore. I have steadfastly maintained that I will be buying a BlackBerry 10 phone the very minute they are available.

    The other day, though, I went to Best Buy and took a look at a Windows 8 desktop.

    I kind of want one now (and I think I am going to get one, seeing how I just got a promotion), but, more to the point, I am now officially worried.

    One of the first things I noticed is that the big thing that we keep hearing about BlackBerry 10, the central upgrade to the mobile experience that this OS is supposed to represent, is the "always in" application experience. The Windows 8 platform I looked at had the same essential experience - swiping between applications - only it did it even slightly better than say the Playbook, because it allowed you to leave two apps visible, side by side, with a simple swiping gesture. If this feature is on Windows 8 PCs, I imagine it will also be on Windows 8 tablet/phones. In other words, the key "distinguishing" feature of BlackBerry 10 has now already been done, and done better, by Microsoft.

    Are BlackBerry 10 phones out of date before hitting market?

    The other issue for me is admittedly an aesthetic preference. RIM likes to call BlackBerry 10 a "mobile computing platform." That suggests, to me, something I've always coveted: unity among all devices in terms of operating system. Apple offers that with the iPad/iPhone, but, at this point in time, still makes a major mistake (IMHO) in not having their true "computers" (Macbooks, iMacs, etc.) on the same OS. I hear that will be changing (finally). RIM will begin to offer it with Playbook/BB10. But without the critical component - a fully-functional PC - I think it falls short of its stated goal of "mobile computing." IOW, to compete with MS in my mind, RIM would have to license its BB10 OS to a company willing to make laptops/desktops on the platform.

    This is now what Microsoft is doing: one OS for all devices - PCs, tablets, and phones.

    I will probably buy that Windows 8 desktop, and it may well make me reconsider the purchase of a BB10 phone. Maybe my next purchase should be a Windows 8 phone.

    Tell me why I am wrong/I should stick with BB10.
    hey hey... so i'm gonna try and answer ur questions to best of my knowledge..someone can correct me if i am wrong. After i got "owned" in another thread about WP8 i went and did some more reading and found WP8 to be better then i thought.. but some of the things that gets to me are:
    1) the multitasking.. it's not TRUE multitasking.. it might be for a 2 apps at once, but after that it behaves like Android... I believe someone mentioned this above.
    2) A lot of people were saying WP8 had a notification center.. no matter how much i looked and went into a store to look i could not find it outside of the live tiles... hence if you do not have a live tile set up for an application there is NO WAY you can know u have a new message..
    - i.e. if you have whatsapp installed and it is not a live tile, and you get a message.. you will NEVER know until you open whatsapp to check manually..
    - the way the HUB is designed... you get ALL your messages, bbms, sms, msm, fb, twitter etc in once place.. and u can choose which ones display in your HUB.. and u can also FLOW to the left and see all the accounts u have setup and filter them and see ONLY "SMS". I would believe u can have whatsapp set up when it does make a bb10 app..
    3) Beside mode.. there is none... to go to bed without being disturbed with one simple swipe down from your lock screen... or if you want to turn off your device completely and still charge it, you can't.. WP8 doesn't have the ability to be charged when the phone is OFF! therefore it always has to be ON!

    - Technobuffalo did a video on #2 and #3..

    Mobile Computing doesn't just refer to Blackberry devices and Playbook.. the reason why they called it mobile computing is the fact that the foundation of BB10 is QNX... QNX has already been incorporated into a lot of daily used applications, such as CARS, Monitoring computers, and special cases like NASA, etc etc etc... you have to remember BB10 is the REBIRTH of blackberry.. therefore it's starting from scratch.. BB10 on the device will be STEP 1.. it's going to be hard for people to dismiss the past, but we kind of have to.. it's not an evolution of BBOS.. it's a complete NEW product.. and with this new product there will be a lot of enhancements, equipment and other things we as customers and enterprise customers use on a daily basis.. you have to think out of the BOX when you hear mobile computing.. it's not just an ecosystem of devices.. it's a product that links multiple ecosystems together in a possibly limitless potential...

    it's not just about having the SAME OS on phone/tablet/PC... it's about allowing your phone/tablet/pc to integrate into whatever your want it to do.. maybe i am thinking out in left field but that's what i am thinking mobile computing to mean.. and for RIM to be the first to get into that space .. it might help them spring back.

    Also on the note of dismissing the PAST... it's unfortunate that RIM didn't get to keep the name BBX... because with the OS called BB10 it makes people think it's an evolution... and there will be NEW OS' beyond it.. but i think everything will be stemmed off BB10 and everything in the future will evolve off of what BB10 is with the help of it being on QNX..

    this post is getting longgg haha but the whole FLOW experience and the Always IN paradigm is GREAT... the fact that i can be scrolling through twitter, get a notification, PEEK to see what it was, get into the HUB, open the notification i just got, read it, reply to it and with a simpe swipe up and a screen press gets me RIGHT back into twitter where i left off and continue what i was reading .. is amazing..

    the same usecase on my S3 would go like this (i don't have a WP8 so i cant say what the usecase would look like):
    reading twitter, get a notification, press the HOME button (cause if i press the BACK button in some instances the application will close), pull down the notification menu, click on the notification, which opens the gmail (or whatever) i read the email, reply to it, press the home button again to return to my homescreen, and if i don't have a widget or homescreen icon for TWitter, i have to enter the application drawer, find twitter and continue reading..OR i can long press the home button and click on twitter to continue..

    i think the bezel gestures combined with flow and peek ...make for a GREAT user experience..

    in the end it's what works for you... it's a bad analogy.. but if BB10 had the ability to allow you to travel to Europe for free, but no where else.. and u don't want to go to Europe .. it wouldn't matter to you! where as someone else they LOVE Europe would buy BB10 in a heart beat..

    I think the this new Flow and Peek and bezel gestures with the always IN paradigm is fantastic.. if the OS is built like a rock, i get updates on a regular, see it improve, and i don't get lags and don't have to reboot my phone everyday .. BB10 is going to be good for me!
    Thunderbuck likes this.
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