[itmccb]

Real-time multitasking sounds nice on paper, but I don't know if I like what RIM's doing with it- now that I think of it, it's app management in general that I hold issue with, but let's start with multitasking:

With BB10, I can have 8 applications fully running at once ( technically 9 -one in the foreground and 8 in the background, but I believe that once I minimize the foreground app, the 8th will be forced out to make room for the foreground). If the app is running, it's on the home screen and conversely, if it's not on running, it's not on the home screen

The first problem is, why is it "running apps" and not "recent apps"? If I close an application or it's forced out of the list, then I have to dig through the app drawer to get back to it. With Android, it manages running apps on its own and apps are only as open as they need to be; if I leave the app and it's not doing anything, then it suspends (allowing me to get right back to where I left off) until it times out and closes completely. If I leave the app while it's doing something, then it will complete the task before suspending. If the app has background processes, then they will remain running. Regardless of the app's state, I can quickly and easily get back to it via the Recent Apps menu. Again, with BB10, I'd only be able to get back to it quickly if it were running. If I don't want an app in the Recent Apps menu then I can swipe it away, but that only clears my session and any necessary processes remain running as long as the OS deems necessary. Save for playing videos in the background*, what more could one need?

The second issue with with the active frames themselves and that they are the home screen. They're like widgets and live tiles without the full benefit of either. With either of those, I can view and in some cases, interact with the app without it needing to be open. On top of that, it's pinned to the home screen so that the information is always readily available. Going back to the full benefits of widgets and live tiles, Android has resizable, scrolling widgets that can show an indefinite amount of information within an app. WP8 has resizable live tiles that can either show basic info from the app or virtually anything within the app that I deem important. I can make a live tile for specific people or groups and get updates on them rather than whatever has happened most recently (Android also allows for pinning in-app shortcuts to the home screen, but they just take you to that point within the app and don't show any info outside of it). With Active Frames, I can only get a set (and decidedly small) amount of information and it's what the developer chooses, not me. On top of that, Active Frames are constantly moving, coming and going as I use the device.

Third, is that I don't have full control over what's on the "landing screen". iOS, Android, and WPx all allow for this. With those three, if I want quick access to an app or folder, I can put it on the home screen so that it's always one button press and a screen tap away. Because the "landing screen" is filled with Active Frames, I'd only be able to get to an app so quickly if it were one of the last 4 apps I used and open, otherwise, I'd need need to take an extra step to get to the app.

While I have your attention, I guess I'll bring up notifications as well. No real issue here, but I'd just like to touch on a misconception that RIM has been spreading: When you receive a notification, you have to leave the current app and dig around to find the app that the notification came from, check it, then get back to what you were doing. That may be true to a small degree for WP, but for Android and iOS, it's downright false. When you receive a notification, it appears on the top of the screen (and with Android it stays there until dismissed or acted on). All you have to do is look at the top of the screen to see what app and a what the message is. Even if you missed the initial notification, you can still see what app it came from and you need only pull down to see more. With BB10, you need to gesture to even see what app the notification came from and need to go to the app/BBH to dismiss or act on it. With Android, you can swipe away notifications and the first one is automatically actionable and others you can expand with a gesture (all of this, of course in the semi-transparent shade pulled over the app so you never leave it). Now BB10's system does have some benefits, such as when you dismiss a notification without acting on it in Android, you do have to dig around to get to it, but in the scenario that RIM described (the moment you get the notification), BB10 has little to no benefit over the competition.

As I typed this, I thought of several other things to touch on (like the recently mentioned invocations), but I think I'll stop here. Apologies if my thoughts are too rambly and incoherent to follow.



*With certain apps (no root required), and as a native feature on recent Galaxy devices, you can have a floating video player over the current app.

NOTE: Android, in the form of apps (no root required) or as native features of certain phones/tablets supports floating app over the current running app such as a messenger, browser, video player, and calculator. Several other types of floating apps are available, all of which can be open at once if you are so inclined and in some cases, multiple instances. Windows 8/RT will support snapping any app to the side of the current app. In either case, you can view/interact with multiple apps at once whereas with BB10/PBOS, despite it's real-time multitasking can only have one app in the foreground.

[OniBerry]

Well, there is truth in your title...

You post seems to indicate that you have used a finished BB10 build and are commenting on things that are wrong(deficiencies? idk) , but I don't see how that's possible. It's not out yet. Not trying to be a smarty, but are talking about a Dev build, some PB build.

In regards to BB10, I really haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that I can't make folders by stacking apps (Like on the PB), and if you know differently, please post a link. If your post was an opinion piece, then I would have to say, to each their own. I am looking forward to seeing a finished, polished OS in the coming months. From the videos I have seen, the need for multitasking would be reduced, as your flow from one app to your hub would greatly reduce ever leaving the actual app in the first place. I don't know how it will work when it's finished, but we still have months until it's released.

BlackBerry, Android, and iOS all have multitasking capabilities, whether the process continues to run in the background while you switch to another app is not that important to the average user imho(Just a quick method of switching back). Pretty sure most new devices have led notification(or an emulated flash or something), and they all have pop-up notifications, unified settings and message hubs of some kind. It may be wrapped in a different skin and may take a button/tap/swipe or whatever but generally gets the job done. The only thing that truly makes for an above average experience is user satisfaction.

[itmccb]

Well, there is truth in your title...

You post seems to indicate that you have used a finished BB10 build and are commenting on things that are wrong(deficiencies? idk) , but I don't see how that's possible. It's not out yet. Not trying to be a smarty, but are talking about a Dev build, some PB build.

In regards to BB10, I really haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that I can't make folders by stacking apps (Like on the PB), and if you know differently, please post a link. If your post was an opinion piece, then I would have to say, to each their own. I am looking forward to seeing a finished, polished OS in the coming months. From the videos I have seen, the need for multitasking would be reduced, as your flow from one app to your hub would greatly reduce ever leaving the actual app in the first place. I don't know how it will work when it's finished, but we still have months until it's released.

^When you swipe up on BB10, the first thing you see is the Active Frames. When you press the home button on Android or iOS, you see your apps/folders/widgets (with an alternate, equally conveniant means of getting to recent apps). There is no way in BB10 to bypass the Active Frames and go straight to your apps which means you need to do an additional gesture to get to your apps/folders. As far as "flowing" between apps, both Android and iOS have similar functionality, mostly different animations.

BlackBerry, Android, and iOS all have multitasking capabilities, whether the process continues to run in the background while you switch to another app is not that important to the average user imho(Just a quick method of switching back). Pretty sure most new devices have led notification(or an emulated flash or something), and they all have pop-up notifications, unified settings and message hubs of some kind. It may be wrapped in a different skin and may take a button/tap/swipe or whatever but generally gets the job done. The only thing that truly makes for an above average experience is user satisfaction.
Indeed. It works, I'm just a little annoyed that you can only quickly get to apps that are open rather than any app that you've recently used (and only 8 of them, at that). Not very power-usery.

I'm aware that I can't expect a new platform to be as capable and fully baked as years-old platforms on day one, but at the same time, I don't know what RIM's priorities are or how long it'll be before they amend certain quirks (considering they even intend to). Though I must admit BB10 is in excellent shape for a new platform; much better than where WP started.

[BennyX]

OK well I read through your entire post and it basically sounds like you would be happier going with an Android device, as that's what you kept making comparisons to in your post.

Rather than wait for BB10 to do what you want it to do, why not use something that already does what you like, that being Android?

[itmccb]

OK well I read through your entire post and it basically sounds like you would be happier going with an Android device, as that's what you kept making comparisons to in your post.

Rather than wait for BB10 to do what you want it to do, why not use something that already does what you like, that being Android?

BB10 still does a lot that I like (for instance, that incoming calls don't force you out of whatever you were doing). I'm just doubting that BB10's multitasking system is as great as RIM lets on.

[kbz1960]

You do know that it's a stripped down beta? Since you know this wouldn't it make sense to only open so many apps or do you need that many open?

Edit: Or is it still an alpha?

[GTiLeo]

BB10 still does a lot that I like (for instance, that incoming calls don't force you out of whatever you were doing). I'm just doubting that BB10's multitasking system is as great as RIM lets on.

oh it does multitasking well, if you've ever used the playbook you'll understand how well it handles each open app

[SHOBOKSHY]

Did you forget about this? I consider this as multitasking BlackBerry 10's Invocation Framework: ingenuity at work | CrackBerry.com

[itmccb]

You do know that it's a stripped down beta? Since you know this wouldn't it make sense to only open so many apps or do you need that many open?

Edit: Or is it still an alpha?

It's in Beta, I believe (Beta, save for when Google uses it, being the stage where the software is more or less feature-complete and just needs bug-fixing/cosmetic refinements). Regarding multitasking, my problem isn't that I can only have 8 apps running so much as it is that I can only quickly switch between 8 apps and it's only apps that are running.

[itmccb]

Did you forget about this? I consider this as multitasking BlackBerry 10's Invocation Framework: ingenuity at work | CrackBerry.com

No, I actually mentioned that "As I typed this, I thought of several other things to touch on (like the recently mentioned invocations), but I think I'll stop here."

Android already has this feature (as well as the ability to set and clear defaults), though I don't know enough about it's implementation in BB10 to make a comparison.

oh it does multitasking well, if you've ever used the playbook you'll understand how well it handles each open app

I have a PlayBook (in a pretty little Journal case to boot ) and it has all the "quirks" mentioned in the OP as well. Though swiping from the edge to switch apps is nice (a luxury only otherwise had in Windows 8/RT), that won't be on phones.

[hurds]

Get a droid. If you see so many things your like better about it you'll drive yourself crazy worrying about something you have no control over.

From what I've seen with the PB and RIM invocation system I can't wait to use BB10. I'm looking forward to something different from the old out-in-tap repeat.

[GTiLeo]

No, I actually mentioned that "As I typed this, I thought of several other things to touch on (like the recently mentioned invocations), but I think I'll stop here."

Android already has this feature (as well as the ability to set and clear defaults), though I don't know enough about it's implementation in BB10 to make a comparison.



I have a PlayBook (in a pretty little Journal case to boot ) and it has all the "quirks" mentioned in the OP as well. Though swiping from the edge to switch apps is nice (a luxury only otherwise had in Windows 8/RT), that won't be on phones.

no i mean how it runs the apps and how smoothly you can run things even with multiple apps open

[itmccb]

no i mean how it runs the apps and how smoothly you can run things even with multiple apps open

No argument there

[aha]

For me, the peek and flow concept is way better than pull down menu from notification bar.

1. What you peek into on BB10 is a hub customized by yourself. You determine what's in there and what's not. This is different from the notification pull down menus in Android or IOS, where Developers can inject their presences into your menu.

2. You only need to go to the hub to get all the messages you want. In IOS and Android, you still have to go to multiple apps to read your messages if they are from different communication tools. in and out and in and out and in and out....

[Masahiro]

RIM can just as easily add, improve or update features as needed. It's not like there will only be one version of BB10 released. Think of BBOS7.1 compared to BBOS 4.X or earlier. Think of iOS 6 compared to iOS 3.

The point is, the OS takes years to "finish" even after release.

[itmccb]

Get a droid. If you see so many things your like better about it you'll drive yourself crazy worrying about something you have no control over.

From what I've seen with the PB and RIM invocation system I can't wait to use BB10. I'm looking forward to something different from the old out-in-tap repeat.

I can't get a Droid, I'm not on Verizon :P Jokes aside, this is just my thoughts on one part of the whole. No OS satisfies me entirely (I think Android's large screen tablet UI is terrible, but I still enjoy mine). There's still several months to see all that BB10 has to offer. On a side note, "Flow" is just PR talk. Android and Windows are just as gesturey, just in different ways. Peek is a nice feature, though.

[Dapper37]

RIM can just as easily add, improve or update features as needed. It's not like there will only be one version of BB10 released. Think of BBOS7.1 compared to BBOS 4.X or earlier. Think of iOS 6 compared to iOS 3.

The point is, the OS takes years to "finish" even after release.

Good point, I'll add, BB10 is the OS thats not meant to be finished. Finished versions yes but something that will continue to expand for years maybe decades to come. Similar to what you said.

[recompile]

The first problem is, why is it "running apps" and not "recent apps"?

That's not a problem. That's a huge positive for everyone.

It should not be the responsibility of the operating system to decide when an app should close. I want to decide what apps are running, and I want to decide if they should continue running or not. (Why else would third-party task managers for Android be so popular? Even non-technical Android users actively seek them out and use them!)

Sure, there was a time when the ridiculous things that Android and iOS do made a little bit of sense, but those days are long gone. No one would have implemented a multitasking system like we have on Android and iOS except to overcome specific technical limitations. It's an ugly compromise that WILL hold Android and iOS back in the long-run. It's time to move on from those outdated platforms and the limits of yesterdays technology.

We have the technology and the need for a better-than-desktop multitasking experience. That's what RIM will deliver and what iOS and Android can't.

I can't say anything about the rest of your comment -- the OS isn't out yet, so I have no idea where you get all the "There isn't" and "you can't" statements from.

[itmccb]

For me, the peek and flow concept is way better than pull down menu from notification bar.

1. What you peek into on BB10 is a hub customized by yourself. You determine what's in there and what's not. This is different from the notification pull down menus in Android or iOS, where Developers can inject their presences into your menu.

Can't say I agree. See below.

2. You only need to go to the hub to get all the messages you want. In iOS and Android, you still have to go to multiple apps to read your messages if they are from different communication tools. in and out and in and out and in and out....

I like that a lot, but Android isn't all that far off. In Jelly Bean, the notification shade is pretty much a temporary UIB. All messages are viewable and actionable within that area; no need to hop between apps or even leave the current one. If you are so inclined, the shade is a quick way to switch between them. Same basic workflow, different aesthetic; just swiping from the top rather than the left. I must admit that Android's system doesn't encompass all of BB Hub's benefits, but at the same time, it has it's own benefits and all things considered, isn't far off.

words.....

[tinysalmon]

I'm sure RIM still has some stuffs kept from us. Just be patient and wait till the launch date. #BB10believe

[itmccb]

That's not a problem. That's a huge positive for everyone.

It should not be the responsibility of the operating system to decide when an app should close. I want to decide what apps are running, and I want to decide if they should continue running or not. (Why else would third-party task managers for Android be so popular? Even non-technical Android users actively seek them out and use them!)

Sure, there was a time when the ridiculous things that Android and iOS do made a little bit of sense, but those days are long gone. No one would have implemented a multitasking system like we have on Android and iOS except to overcome specific technical limitations. It's an ugly compromise that WILL hold Android and iOS back in the long-run. It's time to move on from those outdated platforms and the limits of yesterdays technology.

We have the technology and the need for a better-than-desktop multitasking experience. That's what RIM will deliver and what iOS and Android can't.

I can't say anything about the rest of your comment -- the OS isn't out yet, so I have no idea where you get all the "There isn't" and "you can't" statements from.

Don't get caught up in PR talk; Android's and iOS' system is fine now and perfectly workable moving forward. In either case, the OS decides when apps are forced out of memory; in one case, it's after a timeout when inactive, in the other, it's when you open 8 other apps.

My issue with "running apps" vs "recent apps" is that you can only quick-switch between apps that are currently running. If I close the app or it's forced out of memory then I can't quickly get back to it. Android and I believe iOS allow for an infinite number of recent apps in the list. An infinite number of apps that have been launched since boot vs. 8, all of which must currently be running. That's not a huge positive; that's annoying. Though Windows 8/RT has a similar limitation (it's capped at 10). Still annoying, but that's only a small part of one off the 3 complaints I made in the OP; It more than makes up for it with the rest of its features.

[notfanboy]

Get a droid. If you see so many things your like better about it you'll drive yourself crazy worrying about something you have no control over.

From what I've seen with the PB and RIM invocation system I can't wait to use BB10. I'm looking forward to something different from the old out-in-tap repeat.

There are a several ways in Android to enable swiping in from the bezel in order to switch to or launch other apps. I hardly use the home button anymore to switch apps. The only time I use it is when I'm driving and can't look at the phone. You can even customize where to swipe from - left, right, or bottom, as well as the height and width of the swiping area. There's also the very useful "alt-tab" functionality, which switches between the last two active apps.

As the OP mentioned, once I learned about the popup features, I have found them indispensible and use them every day. Yes, even on a phone. A common use is to watch a YouTube music video in the lower corner while still having 80% of the screen for say, the web browser. The popup browser and calculator comes in handy as well.

Even in iOS, there's the three finger swipe that lets you to peek into the previous app, and switch into them. Swipe up will bring up a list of recently used apps. It's far from ideal, but it's time to put the myth that you have to always use the home button in iOS, to rest.

[hurds]

There are a several ways in Android to enable swiping in from the bezel in order to switch to or launch other apps. I hardly use the home button anymore to switch apps. The only time I use it is when I'm driving and can't look at the phone. You can even customize where to swipe from - left, right, or bottom, as well as the height and width of the swiping area. There's also the very useful "alt-tab" functionality, which switches between the last two active apps.

As the OP mentioned, once I learned about the popup features, I have found them indispensible and use them every day. Yes, even on a phone. A common use is to watch a YouTube music video in the lower corner while still having 80% of the screen for say, the web browser. The popup browser and calculator comes in handy as well.

Even in iOS, there's the three finger swipe that lets you to peek into the previous app, and switch into them. Swipe up will bring up a list of recently used apps. It's far from ideal, but it's time to put the myth that you have to always use the home button in iOS, to rest.

I'll never own an android device personally. I already have a gmail account, thats enough google for me. So its great android can do all those things but I'm definitely impressed with what I've seen in BB10 and I'm betting RIM is holding some back for launch. Also I think fragmentation is always going to be a big problem for android while RIM seems to support their devices well after release. Its just the nature of their business models. OEMs just keep pumping out new devices while its in RIMs best interest to suppor their models well into the future.

For iOS, there is no myth. iOSs weakness is multitasking. This is known. What you are saying is misinformation (where are the misinformation people?). If you've ever owned an iphone there is no 3 finger swipe (ipad only). Also I don't know how anyone could ever say that iOS is good at multitasking. iOS is good for a lot of things ('ecosystem!'), but multitasking is not one of them. Its one of the reasons I got pushed away from the platform. I'm the type of person who likes to do a lot of things at once and I'm not of fan of their app-switcher bar after double tapping the home button and then waiting for the app to start up again. That is not multi-tasking. If you have videos of this on youtube I'd be happy to look at them, or if there is something in the settings let me know. But I was just trying it on my iphone with iOS6 and it was a no-go. Its not a myth, iOS on the iphone is unable to multitask adequately. If you get a PB and swipe once at the edge between apps you'll know what I mean by multi-tasking.

[calicocat2010]

In regards to BB10, I really haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that I can't make folders by stacking apps (Like on the PB), and if you know differently, please post a link. -- I have seen this from one of the Dev alpha B device hands on video. I know I saw it because I was excited to see the feature. I am trying to find the link.

[itmccb]

In regards to BB10, I really haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that I can't make folders by stacking apps (Like on the PB), and if you know differently, please post a link. -- I have seen this from one of the Dev alpha B device hands on video. I know I saw it because I was excited to see the feature. I am trying to find the link.

I meant on the main screen which is populated by Active Frames; no apps/folders can be placed there. When you swipe up, you see 4 Active Frames. If an app that you always want to have quick access to isn't one of the 4 frames, then you either have to swipe up (if it is among the other 4) or right to the app drawer; an additional step over, well, every other smartphone OS where your home screen covered in your most important apps is always one button press away.