[engelscdr]

Here's my take why products like BlackBerry doesn't sell that much anymore. IT DOESN'T TRY TO APPEAL TO THE YOUNGER CONSUMERS, especially FEMALE CONSUMERS.

I have observed that the best selling consumer products are those that appeal to girls, women, teens, and kids. Take for example the Android phones. Why do they sell like hotcakes? They're designed for entertainment like games and social media. Teens, kids love that. Girls love to talk, chat over social media. Adolescents love keeping up with the Joneses and are cray over one-upmanship over who's got the best photos or OOTD or wacky shots.

Look at Apple and the iPhone. Where did the boom really start? Everyone was having fun with Sony Walkman, then came the iPod. The iPod was the jumping board of the iPhone. You want music in a cool gadget? Everyone dumped the Walkman for the iPod. You want that cool music player with internet and phone functions too? Boom, you have the iPhone. Those hordes who patronized the iPod were for sure the first to line up to get the iPhone.

BlackBerry had internet too, but most especially emails. Teens don't talk and send pictures over email no more. It's the same for girls. BlackBerry users are mostly male I suppose. They are the breadwinners and they want a serious smartphone like the BlackBerry. But their wives and daughters and kids want an entertainment tool. So they ask Daddy to buy them android and iPhones. Then later on, daddy buys one for himself too so he could keep up with what his wife and kids are doing.

I admit this is a simplification. But come to think of it. Who does Apple and Samsung really talk to with their commercial ads? Aren't they the girls and teens? The android and iPhone lovers wouldn't admit this but what their looking for is really not a smartphone per se. They want that iPod with expanded multi and social media capabilities, and games. If this is true, they have to admit that BlackBerry is the only smartphone in its original sense (because it is indeed the original smartphone). BlackBerry puts the "smart" in smart-PHONE.

Having said this, I hope BlackBerry pushes forward the concept of Passport and create a micro-PC-phone soon, one that is fully equipped with all the programs you have in a netbook, especially with spreadsheets where you can program formulae, word processor where you can create tables, and presenters where you can customize animations.

[engelscdr]

Blackberry doesn't have to appeal to the teens and girls to thrive, though. They just have to win back their old customers and expand to new corporate segments.

[RubberChicken76]

Well it is what it is

As I said before, have you tried them all? If you have, the developers in the dev forum would likely love your feedback.

Or alternatively, you could just be honest and say, "I haven't liked the apps I've personally tried"?

[RubberChicken76]

Well it is what it is, even BlackBerry's inhouse apps are half baked.

- onenote (best note app out there

- Snap6 (much better than snap10/snap2chat

- better reddit clients

- here maps (best maps app out there

he docs to go app is featureless compared to the android/ios version and those versions don't even come close to office)

Amazon and BBworld together is the worst app store out of any of the 4 OS' by far.

You make very valid points, but man, do you suffer from "I like to act as though my personal subjective opinions are 'facts'" disease. Not an "I think", "I prefer", "I like", "In my opinion" in the lot ...

[byex]

And what do we hate even more, than unfulfilled potential in our meritocracy?
Communism.
(I hope nobody gets mad. The net neutrality thread inspired me)

But yeah, I agree. When my 9 year old niece knows one reason of why BlackBerry fails ("do they have phones without 100 keys?"), it's kinda fascinating that those econ/math majors working at BB don't get it.

That's interesting. PKB is part of the reason BlackBerry is failing.
I'll have to reconsider my Passport since 9 year olds know more than most and we hold their opinions in high regard.

Posted via CB10

[deebo550]

In my case I'm still waiting on a z30 successor. My z10 died a few years back and I couldn't get the z30 with at&t so I went with the galaxy s4. Still waiting I got an s5. Now I just preodered the s6 edge since no such bb10 device is in sight.

I am more than willing to come back to bb10 but I need something to entice me to.

Give me bb10 on a Samsung like device and I think you'd have a hit. Just my opinion of course.

Posted via CrackBerry App

[Sridhara Shankara]

Yup BBRY needs to release more touchscreen phones if they want to garner or even retain present market share!!

[Sridhara Shankara]

Over simplification yes!! but, definitely not further from truth about BBRY's current standing in the devices
market

[RubberChicken76]

My z10 died a few years back

Did it die right after it launched?

[ADGrant]

In my case I'm still waiting on a z30 successor. My z10 died a few years back and I couldn't get the z30 with at&t so I went with the galaxy s4. Still waiting I got an s5. Now I just preodered the s6 edge since no such bb10 device is in sight.

I am more than willing to come back to bb10 but I need something to entice me to.

Give me bb10 on a Samsung like device and I think you'd have a hit. Just my opinion of course.

Posted via CrackBerry App

Why do people think a touch only BB10 device will sell. None have so far and why would someone dump their 6+ or S6 for a BB?

[birdman_38]

Why do people think a touch only BB10 device will sell. None have so far and why would someone dump their 6+ or S6 for a BB?

The Z10 remains the best selling BlackBerry 10 device of all time.

Still, you're right in the fact that most people will have moved on by this spring with no Z10 successor or this fall with no Z30 successor.

[lnichols]

I myself believe the road BB is taking now is the best for them. By making phones that are exclusively for businessmen, and "weird" phone that attracts alot, they are now without direct competition in that field. Another Z10 or Z30 will be another flop... as the mainstream wants youtube, games, apps, and web browsing capability, BB to be honest can do nothing. Poor android apps performance, the browser just suck, native app still nowhere to be found. And moreover BB10 is no need dinosaur spec for it to run well, and higher spec costs more, for a company lacks cash this would not be a smart choice to mass produce another Z30 with higher spec... BB should keep it simple, 1 to 2 smartphones per year, but make sure they are unique, their only advantage right now

Posted via CB10

A flop relative to what? One could probably look at Passport sales and they would be a flop compared to Z10, and maybe Z30 sales too. Classic sales will be a joke too IMHO. People here seem to forget the all touch form factor is almost certainly the biggest seller for BB10 too, not just the remaining 99% of the phone market. People, even in Enterprise and government want all touch devices. Every BB10 device I see in the agency I contract to is either Z10 or Z30. BlackBerry sees the PKB as a differentiator, but it is a differentiator that the overwhelming majority of the market, including business and Government are abandoning.

Posted via CB10

[Soulstream]

I think the main problem for BB in today's market is Android. The fact that most OEMs don't have to spend so much money on OS development (Android is already there), means they can put up higher speced phones than BB for a lower price and with a very good ecosystem.

Android produced a very competitive smartphone market that is very good for consumers (lower prices for higher specs), but very bad for BB that tries to survive with its own OS.

[lnichols]

Why do people think a touch only BB10 device will sell. None have so far and why would someone dump their 6+ or S6 for a BB?

Why do people think BlackBerry PKB devices will sell? Why would someone abandon the phones you mention for a Passport or Classic or Slider? Those devices you mentioned have made people in business and Government want that form factor their business and Government issued devices. They have shown that PKB is no longer necessary to pound out the quick communications that would comprise 99% of the messages sent from a phone. Once the iPhone and high end Android devices became popular, BlackBerry was really only selling PKB devices in low end, data plan price sensitive markets. It had nothing to do with the PKB, and everything do to the best option for those markets. As soon as cheap Androids flooded these markets and data plans came down they too abandoned BlackBerry showing the PKB was not what got them on the phone and wasn't enough to keep them.

So how will sticking with a differentiator that has been shown to be a differentiator that won't keep people on or bring them back to the platform, be a solid strategy for hardware?

Posted via CB10

[anon(5818411)]

As I said before, have you tried them all? If you have, the developers in the dev forum would likely love your feedback.

Or alternatively, you could just be honest and say, "I haven't liked the apps I've personally tried"?

You make very valid points, but man, do you suffer from "I like to act as though my personal subjective opinions are 'facts'" disease. Not an "I think", "I prefer", "I like", "In my opinion" in the lot ...

So far you haven't given be a single rebuttal. I even rebuttal myself with pushplane since it is 1 app that is fully featured, fast, headless, hub integrated and a great UI. This is the way all BB10 should be made.

Another amazing app is Ultimate backup, before firechest (now back up pro) was the standard, I beta tested firechest for them and everything. It was a good app that made good progress and now it barely gets support and Ultimate backup is 100 steps a head, it includes all back up pro features, organizes back ups better and now has unique features. Plus i kept on losing contacts with backup pro due to merged with social media contacts.

I have bought over 50 BBworld apps to support the devs and i've tried 100s plus beta tested like 30 for the devs. So i have tried my fair share of apps. At first they make good progress then all a sudden there is no support.
__________________________________________________ ____________________

if you can point me to better apps then those for a specific activity let me know.
- Onenote can be used as a damn word doc if you wanted or it can me for simple tasks like evernote and remember, it is cloud synced, multiple reminders, location reminders. You can even add a video to a note. If you have a tab or a big enough screen (Note 4), forget bringing a pen and paper to class or a meeting (you can draw on the damn screen), all handwriting can translated and edited via keyboard, you can scan a paper document and edit it on the app. Legit the app has everything you need to be productive.

- Here Maps is newish but it's like an upgraded version of google maps with tons of offline map storage, not sure if you used google maps offline but it's kind crappy of support. You even have indoor maps for shopping malls, what maps app can do that? Everything else like transit, pedestrian support, traffic support, POI and pre-trip planning is the same as google maps. The only thing Google maps is better with is it's integration with Google Now.
Most blogs rated the BETA version of Here to be better than Google.

- docs2go for BlackBerry is unquestionable the worst. I shouldn't even have to explain this. Docs2go premium for android ($15) isn't even fully compatible with Microsoft Office, Google docs and iWorks. Have you seen the UI? It might not be a fact but it is the general population's opinion that it's cluttered and damn ugly.

- Amazon/BBworld vs competitor comparison, if you can tell me which of the top 4 OS' is worse then it, let me know. I think the next step down is Tizen and JollaPhone app stores. BBworld not regulated like the only 3 main OS', remember all those "App for" scams? Amazon is full of outdated apps that were last updated, last year. I can't think of any apps in BBworld that out play other apps on other platforms except the 2 i mentioned above. Any you find in BBworld/Amazon most likely you will find in WP.
Microsoft is ACTIVELY trying to fill the gap, if they can make the 1 app for all devices as seamless as they say. That right there is a game stopper and they will instantly become the biggest user base besides android to develop apps for. This will most likely benefit you because most likely you are running win7/8 or have an xbox.
BlackBerry's dev relations all left. BlackBerry obviously doesn't care about the app gap like they did at BB10 launch.

Your right i'm not stating facts since i'm not getting raw data because there is none, except for the # of app downloads, updates (how frequently the app is updated whether bug fixes or features) and the apps actually being in the app stores. I am just basing it on features, usability and what the mass population thinks.

Like I stated many times, the hardware is not the issue with BB10. So far they have been pumping up 3 phones a year to various audiences where most manufactures only have low end and high end.

I'm still waiting on a knowledgeable rebuttal to it.

[Bbnivende]

Blackberry doesn't have to appeal to the teens and girls to thrive, though. They just have to win back their old customers and expand to new corporate segments.

They could do that but they would need a $125 phone with a $ 50 trade in program for Indonesia,fAfrica and India. They could do that if they made a cheap all touch that had BIS. They could do that if the Leap was value priced for Enterprise customers. They could licence a version of BB10 for local manufacturers in India, Russia, Nigeria and a South America.

Posted via CB10

[anon(5818411)]

They could do that but they would need a $125 phone with a $ 50 trade in program for Indonesia,fAfrica and India. They could do that if they made a cheap all touch that had BIS. They could do that if the Leap was value priced for Enterprise customers. They could licence a version of BB10 for local manufacturers in India, Russia, Nigeria and a South America.

Posted via CB10

they should have done that with the Z3, but what ever happened to that? After the first week of launch, it was never heard of again.

[RazzBerry]

Yes. Or you are putting way to much stock into what phones people use and the problems that society faces. I tend to look to the latter.

I was actually just making a simple observation.
You can't control others, you can only control yourself and your own actions.

[Bbnivende]

So far you haven't given be a single rebuttal. I even rebuttal myself with pushplane since it is 1 app that is fully featured, fast, headless, hub integrated and a great UI. This is the way all BB10 should be made.

Another amazing app is Ultimate backup, before firechest (now back up pro) was the standard, I beta tested firechest for them and everything. It was a good app that made good progress and now it barely gets support and Ultimate backup is 100 steps a head, it includes all back up pro features, organizes back ups better and now has unique features. Plus i kept on losing contacts with backup pro due to merged with social media contacts.

I have bought over 50 BBworld apps to support the devs and i've tried 100s plus beta tested like 30 for the devs. So i have tried my fair share of apps. At first they make good progress then all a sudden there is no support.
__________________________________________________ ____________________

if you can point me to better apps then those for a specific activity let me know.
- Onenote can be used as a damn word doc if you wanted or it can me for simple tasks like evernote and remember, it is cloud synced, multiple reminders, location reminders. You can even add a video to a note. If you have a tab or a big enough screen (Note 4), forget bringing a pen and paper to class or a meeting. Legit the app has everything you need to be productive.

- Here Maps is newish but it's like an upgraded version of google maps with tons of offline map storage, not sure if you used google maps offline but it's kind crappy of support. You even have indoor maps for shopping malls, what maps app can do that? Everything else like transit, pedestrian support, traffic support, POI and pre-trip planning is the same as google maps. The only thing Google maps is better with is it's integration with Google Now.

- docs2go for BlackBerry is unquestionable the worst. I shouldn't even have to explain this. Docs2go premium for android ($15) isn't even fully compatible with Microsoft Office, Google docs and iWorks. Have you seen the UI? It might not be a fact but it is the general population's opinion that it's cluttered and damn ugly.

- Amazon/BBworld vs competitor comparison, if you can tell me which of the top 4 OS' is worse then it, let me know. I think the next step down is Tizen and JollaPhone app stores. BBworld not regulated like the only 3 main OS', remember all those "App for" scams? Amazon is full of outdated apps that were last updated, last year. I can't think of any apps in BBworld that out play other apps on other platforms except the 2 i mentioned above. Any you find in BBworld/Amazon most likely you will find in WP.
Microsoft is ACTIVELY trying to fill the gap, if they can make the 1 app for all devices as seamless as they say. That right there is a game stopper and they will instantly become the biggest user base besides android to develop apps for. This will most likely benefit you because most likely you are running win7/8 or have an xbox.
BlackBerry's dev relations all left. BlackBerry obviously doesn't care about the app gap like they did at BB10 launch.

Your right i'm not stating facts since i'm not getting raw data because there is none, except for the # of app downloads, updates (how frequently the app is updated whether bug fixes or features) and the apps actually being in the app stores. I am just basing it on features, usability and what the mass population thinks.

Like I stated many times, the hardware is not the issue with BB10. So far they have been pumping up 3 phones a year to various audiences where most manufactures only have low end and high end.

I'm still waiting on a knowledgeable rebuttal to it.

In North America - most Enterprises and non -profits are only supporting Google Play and the Apple store with all others maybe being offered a mobile app. I have Snap but I can also e-mail myself an APK from my Nexus cheapo tablet. Ultimately I have access to more apps than I could on a windows phone. My bank app and home security apps are not on the windows phone. Regardless, no matter how you look at it neither BlackBerry or Microsoft have great app stores. I do agree that the Microsoft store will be improving where as the BlackBerry store is not.

[RubberChicken76]

So far you haven't given be a single rebuttal.

Did you miss the part where I said that I thought you made many good points?

What I have a problem with is you painting "all apps as half assed". Unless you've downloaded and tried them all (you haven't), it's unfair to the developers. I'm sure they'd love to hear from you if you have legit concerns about the apps they've made. But reality is likely that you'd go into the dev forum and not have tried most of the apps made by the developers there.

The other issue is a general pet peeve. You act as though your personal opinions are facts. You have personal preferences. Others may not agree. It's a common problem in discussion forums.

I'm not getting into the other parts because I really don't actually disagree with many of the points you've made, even though you attempted to make it out like I did.

[MarsupilamiX]

That's interesting. PKB is part of the reason BlackBerry is failing.
I'll have to reconsider my Passport since 9 year olds know more than most and we hold their opinions in high regard.

Posted via CB10

9 year olds seem to have a better understanding of aggregated market data (they only see touchscreen phones 99.9% of the time), than some posters in here

She seems to intuitively grasp what the market is composed of and what people prefer.

Meh

Moo

[Coffee Shampoo]

Apps are the problem. Most of the people that I've met in real life love their BlackBerry 10 phones but are frustrated with the lack of apps. Sideloading/downloading from the browser is not an option to them any longer. I'm pretty sure they'll sacrifice BlackBerry 's software in favor of another platform with a better ecosystem.

That's today's consumer market whether you like it or not, even I get frustrated that I can't get some android apps to work properly, that's why I only use my q10 as a WiFi device and the iPhone 6 as my main driver.

BlackBerry's software is brilliant, the ecosystem dragged them behind of apple and android together with their continuos faith on BlackBerry 7. Had the z10 been released one or two years earlier and today BlackBerry would definitely have a bigger marketshare. So for now it doesn't matter how many devices they release, they need to come up with some true and out of this world innovation (in regards to the consumer prospect) if they want to ever gain traction again.

Posted via CB10

[RubberChicken76]

Meh

[lnichols]

Apps are the problem. Most of the people that I've met in real life love their BlackBerry 10 phones but are frustrated with the lack of apps. Sideloading/downloading from the browser is not an option to them any longer. I'm pretty sure they'll sacrifice BlackBerry 's software in favor of another platform with a better ecosystem.

That's today's consumer market whether you like it or not, even I get frustrated that I can't get some android apps to work properly, that's why I only use my q10 as a WiFi device and the iPhone 6 as my main driver.

BlackBerry's software is brilliant, the ecosystem dragged them behind of apple and android together with their continuos faith on BlackBerry 7. Had the z10 been released one or two years earlier and today BlackBerry would definitely have a bigger marketshare. So for now it doesn't matter how many devices they release, they need to come up with some true and out of this world innovation (in regards to the consumer prospect) if they want to ever gain traction again.

Posted via CB10

They thought that by releasing the PlayBook they would start app development and ecosystem creation for the new platform. Unfortunately they killed it all off with the announcement of the Android runtime before the PlayBook even launched, and by stupidly going with Adobe on the main part of the PlayBook's OS, and with Texas Instruments for the SOC. Once Adobe backed out of mobile, and TI did as well, and BlackBerry realized that Adobe's offering in TabletOS were an abomination, they basically had to start on Cascades, abandon the PlayBook, and delay having a new phone/OS ready, all while creating a one off abomination in the Playbook, (Maybe two off if you include the STL100-1 which was clearly the phone planned to run TabletOS for phones with that TI processor).

Posted via CB10

[anon(5818411)]

In North America - most Enterprises and non -profits are only supporting Google Play and the Apple store with all others maybe being offered a mobile app. I have Snap but I can also e-mail myself an APK from my Nexus cheapo tablet. Ultimately I have access to more apps than I could on a windows phone. My bank app and home security apps are not on the windows phone. Regardless, no matter how you look at it neither BlackBerry or Microsoft have great app stores. I do agree that the Microsoft store will be improving where as the BlackBerry store is not.

I have google play store on my BlackBerry 10 device but the general population will ONLY go to amazon and BBworld. Amazon devs are starting to block BB users from even downloading their apps and most business apps aren't in BBworld or amazon. Business' will most likely hesitate to get apps from amazon anyways because it's not BlackBerry's native app store and the apps don't work fully all the time. The runtime is getting better but if you are downloading android apps on a blackberry you are crippling your business' productivity and resources. No IT department (except for maybe small business' and enthusiasts) will look on crackberry and download google play on everyone's phone.

Some business' aren't even allowing you to use your BlackBerry for BYOD because it doesn't have the apps the business requires, natively.

Ironic, that some business' don't allow you to use a business specific phone, eh? It's just the type of world we live in now. BlackBerry seems to be stuck in 2007 when there were barely any apps. (AKA sending all "consumer" devs to the amazon store disaster)

I do find the whole banking apps thing a bit odd on WinStore too. Big name banks just pulled from it recently. My bank is on it personally (RBC) and it's much more useful then the HTML5 port that is on BB10. I am curious what security apps you use that is native on BB10 and not on WP though?