1. adamschuetze's Avatar
    gmail on android is even a different experience then on the web version.... conversation mode cannot be turned off on the android version.. does it make it pretty bad?
    I prefer conversation mode, and it makes more sense to use it, but yes, I think it's pretty lame that you can't turn it off. Is it fatal? No, I don't think so. Hopefully they'll offer an option to toggle it on and off in the future.

    But...I'm thinking about it in different terms. Will I be able to sync multiple Google calendars to my BB10 calendar? Will I be able to control calendar sharing on my BB10 device? Will I be able to sync Google tasks to my BB10 task manager? Will I have full folder sync? Will my email/contacts/calendar/tasks sync pretty much instantaneously, or will I have to wait ages for the changes to filter through? Think big features, main functionality.
    10-19-12 12:23 PM
  2. missing_K-W's Avatar
    I don't think "Android" was the point here.. the point was, RIM needs to offer the same sort of cohesiveness with Google in BlackBerry 10 that Android does. e.g. Google services need to work and work right!
    Oops. My bad. I meant to say Google services. A very intuitive and engaging Google service experience I should add. I trust they will
    10-19-12 06:47 PM
  3. badiyee85's Avatar
    Google pulled the plug on Google Sync simply because it's limited function had become redundant, and not due to any lack of love. As for Maps (and as yet still non existent Google apps) that haven't seen development in a while, I'd say it's more an issue that Google decided to suspend development in anticipation of BB10.

    Google already provides API's to a significant majority of their services, and they eagerly develop applications for platforms for their services that don't. Take iOS for example; the moment they stopped developing their own Google Apps and gave Google the ok to build their own maps/gmail apps for iOS, Google happily began hacking away at them.
    Your observation is noted. However, when one looks at what Google did, they never did once say that they are anticipating BB10 for further development. If Google-Microsoft-Apple news are (emphasis on IF) of any indicator of things to come, it is very obvious that Google is scrambling to react to the stranglehold that Apple-Microsoft is maneuvering. Its not like apple and microsoft like each other (they supposedly hate each other) but they do, i believe have a common goal of bullying google. And the way i look at RIM did with the alpha version of bb10 os, rim is doing all it can as to be in the middle ground, as much as possible.
    10-20-12 02:02 AM
  4. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Google follows the money (aka raw users). A good corporation doesn't have hurt feelings. Google will do what it needs to do to make money... scarily so.

    Android OS and Google services do one thing, IMHO: they tie you into Google's ecosystem.
    10-20-12 06:46 AM
  5. stephen_az's Avatar
    There is a level at which RIM cannot fully embrace Google and it is based upon the same reasons Microsoft and Apple also do not. The Google business model is more inherently based in the idea of monopoly building than Microsoft ever was, even in the late 1990s. Leaving open source BS aside, or viewing it its proper context, the Google model is about being the player in a field of one. They will sell products at a loss and open source an OS because they can monopolize a market by volume and then make their money on the data they extract from their customers. That then gets to the second issue which is Google's approach to customer security and privacy is about as anti-RIM as one can get. Personally, I think RIM should certainly assure that its customers aren't left in the cold with respect to key offerings, but would otherwise be wise to continue to keep Google at arm's length.
    10-20-12 02:31 PM
  6. adamschuetze's Avatar
    There is a level at which RIM cannot fully embrace Google and it is based upon the same reasons Microsoft and Apple also do not. The Google business model is more inherently based in the idea of monopoly building than Microsoft ever was, even in the late 1990s. Leaving open source BS aside, or viewing it its proper context, the Google model is about being the player in a field of one. They will sell products at a loss and open source an OS because they can monopolize a market by volume and then make their money on the data they extract from their customers. That then gets to the second issue which is Google's approach to customer security and privacy is about as anti-RIM as one can get. Personally, I think RIM should certainly assure that its customers aren't left in the cold with respect to key offerings, but would otherwise be wise to continue to keep Google at arm's length.
    How do you mean keep at arms length? Not fully implement support for it? If I can do folder sync on my bb10 phone and sync multiple google calendars and other basic requirements, you're ignoring all those millions who rely on Google services.

    Setting aside for a moment the enterprise market and security, the general consumer market, like it or not, uses Google. If RIM doesn't make those services available on bb10 in the same fashion as they are on Android or iOS (mind you the iOS Gmail app is awful), then they're dead. People won't buy a BB10 if they can't be used in the same way as the competition.
    10-20-12 11:57 PM
  7. badiyee85's Avatar
    How do you mean keep at arms length? Not fully implement support for it? If I can do folder sync on my bb10 phone and sync multiple google calendars and other basic requirements, you're ignoring all those millions who rely on Google services.

    Setting aside for a moment the enterprise market and security, the general consumer market, like it or not, uses Google. If RIM doesn't make those services available on bb10 in the same fashion as they are on Android or iOS (mind you the iOS Gmail app is awful), then they're dead. People won't buy a BB10 if they can't be used in the same way as the competition.
    RIM can keep Google at arm's length. Look at the Android player. Google made some noise about it, (as being forked Android) but RIM still benefitted on the advantages, while being able to somewhat mitigate the unwanted elements (such as total traffic control) though there were a few things that had to be sacrificed.

    I'm sure its possible, but i won't say RIM can do much better than APPLE (after all Apple burnt their bridge with Google, and is supposedly going thermonuclear with Google)
    10-28-12 10:53 AM
  8. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    If RIM doesn't make those services available on bb10 in the same fashion as they are on Android or iOS (mind you the iOS Gmail app is awful), then they're dead.
    I don't know many people who use the Gmail app for iOS, maybe to search old emails once in a while. Most people I know who use Google services just set it up as Exchange to use Google Sync.
    10-28-12 11:04 AM
  9. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    RIM can keep Google at arm's length. Look at the Android player. Google made some noise about it, (as being forked Android) but RIM still benefitted on the advantages, while being able to somewhat mitigate the unwanted elements (such as total traffic control) though there were a few things that had to be sacrificed.

    I'm sure its possible, but i won't say RIM can do much better than APPLE (after all Apple burnt their bridge with Google, and is supposedly going thermonuclear with Google)
    When did Google make any noise about RIM incorporating the Android player? Last I recall, Google was happy about it.

    And how did Apple burn Google exactly? Sure Apple decided to stop working on their native Google support, but at the same time they gave the green light to Google to take over the development of Google apps that Apple previously developed themselves. Google is now developing their own Google Maps and Gmail apps for iOS. Which benefits iOS users, because now Google will probably beef up those apps to have more of the features as seen in the Android versions. It's not like Apple decided to prevent Google services from working on their platform.
    10-29-12 12:45 AM
  10. Majestic Lion's Avatar
    At what cost?
    10-29-12 01:49 AM
  11. jivegirl14's Avatar
    What are you talking about? Of course conversation mode can be turned off, I have turned it off on my Android phone.

    Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2
    10-29-12 07:33 AM
  12. ubizmo's Avatar
    BB10 needs to give users the option of continuing to use Google services, but ideally they'll also tempt them to switch to something better. I'd gladly drop Google for secure BlackBerry services live synced with Web apps. I don't know if this is in the cards but I hope so.
    10-29-12 07:54 AM
  13. kraski's Avatar
    I understand that Google has ways of limiting its API on a platform-specific basis (see the latest Apple maps debacle where Google was refusing access to turn by turn navigation so as to retain a differentiating feature in Android). But if RIM is unable to get access to full API functionality for the major Google services, that's pretty bad. Some services like maps can be replaced, but if I can't get full access to the basics...
    But your example is the exact reverse. And publicly admitted so. Apple didn't give Google enough API info to be able to create a fully functional, accurate Apple version of Google Maps for the latest iOS/iPhone. How is that Google's fault?
    10-29-12 08:45 AM
  14. bitek's Avatar
    I don't really think that RIM hates Google, but its more of an issue of "Google not giving any love". As far as I recall, Google pulled the plug off on things such as google sync, etc. Whether it was a retaliation for RIM making an Android Player (because RIM isn't a part of the Open Handset Alliance, or unless I stand corrected) so Google had no way to tell RIM to "get off Android".

    I mean, even for maps, RIM goes with TomTom instead of a native Google Maps application. That shows just how much things (probably) broke down between RIM and Google. So we'll probably see forked versions of Google products on BlackBerry 10. But fully supported? Not probably. Unless Google have everything do-able on HTML5, by web access (then we'll probably see some love from Google, because its a "one-code-multi-OS-platform" issue then, to which RIM would have anticipated by making sure that BlackBerry 10 has the best HTML5-compliant browser out on the market.
    all true. i also think google is trying to get rid off competition. this sucks because i like google and google services but android player got so good that my problems are gone.
    10-29-12 01:41 PM
  15. bitek's Avatar
    What would be awesome for RIM to do is maybe use Android as the main operating system for all their future devices but then again maybe RIM would love to have their own operating system.
    terrible,terrible idea. as much as i like google i do honestly think that android sucks.
    10-29-12 01:42 PM
  16. lnichols's Avatar
    I hope the Google embraces BB10! I don't think RIM is trying to restrict services, it would be Google. Will Google make maps available to BB10? What about Goggles?
    10-29-12 04:19 PM
  17. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    When did Google make any noise about RIM incorporating the Android player? Last I recall, Google was happy about it.

    And how did Apple burn Google exactly? Sure Apple decided to stop working on their native Google support, but at the same time they gave the green light to Google to take over the development of Google apps that Apple previously developed themselves. Google is now developing their own Google Maps and Gmail apps for iOS. Which benefits iOS users, because now Google will probably beef up those apps to have more of the features as seen in the Android versions. It's not like Apple decided to prevent Google services from working on their platform.
    Like ads in the Google versions of Youtube and GMaps apps...
    10-29-12 07:27 PM
  18. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Like ads in the Google versions of Youtube and GMaps apps...
    Google didn't add ads to the new app Youtube app for iOS. They added the ability to watch videos that were previously unavailable on iOS' native app because the videos themselves are ad supported. Huge difference. It's not like you fire up the app and you get inundated with ads.

    As for the new Gmaps app for iOS, there are no reports (that I've seen, nor can find) of it being ad supported.
    10-29-12 10:41 PM
  19. badiyee85's Avatar
    When did Google make any noise about RIM incorporating the Android player? Last I recall, Google was happy about it.

    And how did Apple burn Google exactly? Sure Apple decided to stop working on their native Google support, but at the same time they gave the green light to Google to take over the development of Google apps that Apple previously developed themselves. Google is now developing their own Google Maps and Gmail apps for iOS. Which benefits iOS users, because now Google will probably beef up those apps to have more of the features as seen in the Android versions. It's not like Apple decided to prevent Google services from working on their platform.
    I think it went unnoticed, but I remember some high ranking Googler did mention RIM and Amazon under one same breath as "they won't be making (in terms of capability) it" (references to their forked Android experiences)

    Apple burnt Google in the sense of lowering / severing their support. I won't say reducing usable APIs as a bad thing, but it has shown that Apple is severing, if not deliberately trying to outdo Google in their services (in the case of the Map-gate kerfurfle, that is) and you cannot compare RIM's relationship to Google in the same light.

    Why? Take a look at the advertising when it comes to maps. Apple said they made it better.
    In regards to RIM, I believe Thorsten Heins in one of the earnings call that very spesifically about maps, he said "i'm not going to compete with others in areas we're not experts at, so we'll subscribe to other providers that can do a better job (not the best).

    Of course RIM definitely is at fault in they implemented a "crippled" Android player that wouldn't connect to GAPPS (google apps services), and if I'm Google, having to be able to use Google-centric apps without using google apps is essentially forking Android experience.
    10-30-12 08:52 AM
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