[GenghisKahn2011]

Like many, I feel 'burned' by BlackBerry.

I am really tempted to spring for a KEYone when it becomes available to work alongside my Passport SE - a device that sill has untapped potential.

But, by purchasing a KEYone, I feel like I am rewarding bad behavior on the part of BlackBerry.

At this moment, as a consumer who has spent a lifetime on the bleeding edge of technologies, I am weary from the fight of acquiring and using truly great operating systems like OS/2, webOS, and BlackBerry 10 only to have the developers take a walk instead developing them to their full potential.

I was raised during an era when it was unnecessary for extraordinary steps to be taken, such as a government mandated recall, for a company to rectify issues with the products they put into the market place. Today, I live in an age that dictates if the challenge to do what is right by the customer is considered "too hard" the company simply walks away from the product - in this case BlackBerry 10 and its foresighted components Blend and Link.

What is truly amazing to me is that BlackBerry, whether as a software company or as the licensor of hardware, expects me to continue to purchase their products which they and many astute technocrats have declared to be excellent. "Excellence" as noted in my regard for OS/2, webOS, and BlackBerry 10 was not good enough for these products to survive.

Why should I continue to take chances with BlackBerry security software, or their version of Android, or hardware produced in their name? If the project becomes too difficult, as demonstrated by their history, they simply walk away leaving consumers like me holding the bag. I am becoming more cynical by the minute, hour, day, week, and year.

I do not accept the arguments that BlackBerry has a fiduciary responsibility to its stockholders to justify walking from BlackBerry 10. Buying stocks and securities has always carried an element of risk. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. Investing in a company like BlackBerry that so easily dismisses what used to be its millions of customers is extraordinarily high risk. In the net, stockholders needed to elect a board of directors that understands that when products are brought to market, you "pull out all the stops" to satisfy the customers by intelligently introducing products that are reasonably bug free that you intend to support for a reasonable period of time - traditionally five years unless you are talking Windows XP which to this day is still running many computers.

The bottom line, I find the Keyone tempting, but do I want to continue to reward BlackBerry for its bad behavior? I am still working through my decision tree.

[johnb_xp]

By not buying the KEYone you are just dooming BlackBerry Mobile. KEYone is not made by BlackBerry, they will still make money off software and continue to let BB10 die. If you like the phone, you should buy it! But if not, they might make a KEYtwo or stop making new BlackBerry phones. Probably no more BB10 phones will be released. BlackBerry Android is actually pretty nice and getting better, and it's much cheaper for BlackBerry to maintain since they aren't doing everything in house. Remember, they are still in the process of getting profitable again. Not really financially viable for BlackBerry to keep up BB10.

[Troy Tiscareno]

A product launch is NOT a suicide pact. You are right that sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. BB lost - and BB10 cost them about $9-10 BILLION in losses, between cash and holdings, and most people realized that it really had no chance in the first place, not because it wasn't good, but because it was many years too late.

To not accept those things is to be in denial, or to be detached from the realities of the world. It seems pretty clear that you're a contrarian - you like to be different than the masses - and by your own admission, your OS choices reflect that. But that's just the thing: in the real world, you are competing with the entire market, and if you take on a massive project like a mobile platform (and make no mistake, you can't have a successful OS by itself - the whole platform has to be a success), then you need to make sure you're in a position to win, and you need to execute well at every level, or you're going to lose.

BB lost because Mike was unwilling to risk his old (successful but rapidly aging) product being cannibalized by future products, so he dragged his feet for years, and in the process, destroyed BB's reputation and brand image, and then tried to enter the market far too late with an incomplete platform that didn't do anything the others didn't already do (even if it did a few of those things better). Well, the free market is a cruel thing if you can't compete well, and BB wasn't competing well. A mobile platform was a bigger project than they were able to handle or finance, and they were years late to the game and missed their window.

To continue dumping money into BB10, after losing so much and with everything in a downward trend would have been corporate suicide. You may not like it, but you should have no trouble accepting that reality - because that's exactly what it was: reality.

Each time you selected a niche OS/platform over a mainstream one, you decided to take a risk, along with the company, that you would end up being abandoned if that platform wasn't a financial success. And 3 out of 3 times, you lost. Perhaps it might be a good time to consider whether being the outsider is the right choice for the future or not?

Anyway, BB has done what BB had to do. Those decisions were made long ago - BB10's development ceased more than 2.5 years ago already. It isn't coming back.

So, take a little time, breathe deep, and look hard at the reality of the situation as it stands today, and as it's LIKELY to be within the next 2 years. Given the speed of tech, it doesn't make much sense to try to look any further than that. Do what makes you comfortable, but know that the bigger the risk, the more likely you are to lose again - and you can't really blame those losses on anyone but yourself, because they were your choices, after all.

[Rico4you]

Was lucky enough to be at the launch of KEYone in Barcelona. bottom line..once you try it you will love it! It's simply feels so right in basically every aspect. Good luck.

[nbaliga]

Late last year I thought I was ready to wean off of the physical keyboard and almost pulled the trigger on a dtek60.

Then came the Keyone hype machine and I held off. Over a month ago my Priv mic died and I've been using it on speakerphone and headset only and was hoping this would be here early April.

The delay till June is not workable for me and has resurfaced my feelings of needing to future-proof myself so I will NOT be buying a PKB device again. I'm done.

I'm on a business trip now but am researching between dtek60, g6, or s8. G6 seems to be in the lead for overall price/value right now.

TLDR; blackberry repeats mistakes of past, loses another customer.

[misterabrasive]

I keep looking at something other than these soap opera posts. Then I happen to look in a month later and here we are with the same drama queens telling the same sad stories over and over and over again. Right where they left off. Just like my wife's soap operas on daytime TV. Like sand through the hourglass......

[thurask]

OS/2, webOS, and BlackBerry 10

Oh, hello.

[gebco]

Buy what works for you. A phone doesn't have to be a lifetime commitment. I bought BlackBerry phones from BBOS to BB10 and now BlackBerry Android. Each time it is because they offered something better for me than the competition. If BlackBerry drops the ball on their security updates for example I may look at a Google phone. But then again, I like that a BlackBerry phone so far can't be rooted. To get OP I suggest to get what works for you. BlackBerry works for me. For now.

[donnation]

Oh, hello.

Good read, thanks for the link.

[OTCHRussell]

Oh, hello.

Very interesting!! I guess I'm a customer of doom!!

[spantch101]

Very interesting!! I guess I'm a customer of doom!!

Me as well. I don't let phone issues create such drama in my life. I will buy it. If it's good enough to be my daily driver then that's what it will be. And YAY for a little extra BlackBerry love. But if not , I am sure I will find another device to fill my needs

[OTCHRussell]

Me as well. I don't let phone issues create such drama in my life. I will buy it. If it's good enough to be my daily driver then that's what it will be. And YAY for a little extra BlackBerry love. But if not , I am sure I will find another device to fill my needs

This is why I switched to the Dtek50 from the Z30 (my favorite). Learning Android after BB10 is a pain, but I got the Dtek50 on trade, so it was a cheap way to learn how to use it.
From here there are many choices of Android phones that I can buy without worrying that I will hate it. For now I'm sticking to BB, even though I may be causing them to fail. LOL

[anon(9607753)]

Oh, hello.

Interesting...although this paradigm does not anticipate a company that puts out products intending them to fail. Most loyal customers can be fooled with lies and they are rightfully upset by deception. For Chen, even moderate success with hardware would have been a setback to his plan. Clearly he misled his customers by having them believe he had any intention whatsoever to keep the hardware division alive.

[Troy Tiscareno]

Interesting...although this paradigm does not anticipate a company that puts out products intending them to fail. Most loyal customers can be fooled with lies and they are rightfully upset by deception. For Chen, even moderate success with hardware would have been a setback to his plan. Clearly he misled his customers by having them believe he had any intention whatsoever to keep the hardware division alive.

BB10 failed before the first line of BB10 code was written - it was way too late and missed the window of opportunity. But for any doubters, it had failed publicly and loudly when sales failed to materialize in 2013 and Heins was forced to put the company up for sale - and had NO TAKERS.

Chen had absolutely nothing to do with BB10's failure - that all happened before he was hired. Chen was like a trauma surgeon brought in to work on a badly injured patient - you can't remotely blame him for the fact that the guy on the table is bleeding out.

BB lost the market under Mike's watch. BB10 was Mike's plan, and that plan was many years late. By the time Heins took over, BB was already committed to BB10 and the board insisted on seeing it through, and by the time Chen was hired, the board had given up on BB10 and hired him to transition the company to software. All of those things were well known, and thoroughly discussed here as they happened.

To believe anything else, you had to be in denial and chose to take BB's words at face value when it was clearly the kind of spin that any company in that position would release to prevent investors from dumping the stock and users from fleeing.

[keyboardweeb]

History is littered with the corpses of superior technologies. Betamax had better quality than VHS. Amiga was superior to IBM compatibles (remember when "PCs" were called that?), NeXT was way way ahead of its time, Linux was and arguably still is far more secure than Windows, and certainly was 20 years ago and is still more capable of doing practically anything, HD-DVD if I remember right actually had more storage capacity than Bluray, PKB has been supplanted by VKB, and on and on and on. They all fell to more accessible, cheaper technologies in the long run. Superiority is no guarantee of success.

But all that being said, I imagine you have a Blu-ray player, a windows pc, and a dozen other "inferior" things which succeeded over their competition. What's the problem with BlackBerry Android? Why is that rewarding bad behavior?

Posted via CB10

[anon(9607753)]

BB10 failed before the first line of BB10 code was written - it was way too late and missed the window of opportunity. But for any doubters, it had failed publicly and loudly when sales failed to materialize in 2013 and Heins was forced to put the company up for sale - and had NO TAKERS.

Chen had absolutely nothing to do with BB10's failure - that all happened before he was hired. Chen was like a trauma surgeon brought in to work on a badly injured patient - you can't remotely blame him for the fact that the guy on the table is bleeding out.

BB lost the market under Mike's watch. BB10 was Mike's plan, and that plan was many years late. By the time Heins took over, BB was already committed to BB10 and the board insisted on seeing it through, and by the time Chen was hired, the board had given up on BB10 and hired him to transition the company to software. All of those things were well known, and thoroughly discussed here as they happened.

To believe anything else, you had to be in denial and chose to take BB's words at face value when it was clearly the kind of spin that any company in that position would release to prevent investors from dumping the stock and users from fleeing.

Thank you for that latest regurgitation from the book of Troy, but my post had absolutely nothing to do with BB10. I know you are eager to repeat your well-rehearsed thesis but it makes no sense in this context.

[sallenthornton]

I'm interested in the Keyone also. On paper it's the blackberry I always wanted, but I'm going to wait a while before purchasing and read the reviews.

[z10Jobe]

I don't feel let down at all by bb10. It has provided me with 4 years of reliable secure communication. Flicking this post on my original z10 makes me think that this phone can last another 4 years.

As far as Android goes, BlackBerry had to make a decision to reduce costs. The market wants apps. Whilst I enjoy my Priv and Dtek50, I prefer the simplicity of portability of my z10 or q5.

Posted via CB10

[Riddymon]

I noticed that you blamed the developers for walking away but wouldn't you want to blame customers first for walking away? They drive demand, higher demand means more people using the devices...more people using the devices means more incentive for developers and companies with mobile software to continue developing. As someone mentioned, blackberry has to be blamed as well because by the time the introduced blackberry 10....the handset business was already on life support. If you want to cast blame...blame blackberry management first, then customers for going to other platforms...then developers for no longer seeing blackberry 10 as a lucrative platform to develop for.

Posted via CB10

[GenghisKahn2011]

I noticed that you blamed the developers for walking away but wouldn't you want to blame customers first for walking away? They drive demand, higher demand means more people using the devices...more people using the devices means more incentive for developers and companies with mobile software to continue developing. As someone mentioned, blackberry has to be blamed as well because by the time the introduced blackberry 10....the handset business was already on life support. If you want to cast blame...blame blackberry management first, then customers for going to other platforms...then developers for no longer seeing blackberry 10 as a lucrative platform to develop for.

Posted via CB10

My references to 'development' are internal to BlackBerry's BB10 development. I have no quarrel with the valiant third party app developers. After all, BlackBerry effectively cut their legs off with the initial half baked release of BB10 and then turning their backs on what could have been an extraordinary phone OS.

BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition 10.3.3.2205 on T-Mobile

[Drael646464]

I do kinda feel like, IF blackberry makes a profit, they sort of owe it to their previous consumers to do some basic maintainence to bb10. Security bigfixes, ,maybe even update the runtime (A 5.0 runtime would last a few more years). Especially given their were new devices released a few years ago.

AFAIK they didn't give any proper warning to the EOL, like say, Microsoft does, they just dumped it. Am I wrong?

But anyway, their commitment to recent customers, doesn't really bode well for new users of bbdroid phones such as the keyone, if the smartphone business spits them out one more time.

I understand the constraints and business realities. They can afford what they can afford. But the consumer has a valid perspective too.

On one had, businesses owe you nothing. On the other hand a company's reputation is grounded it mutual interest to at least some degree. There's a sort of middle ground there. Hence why giving some sort of roll over end date, seems a lot fairer.

[keyboardweeb]

My references to 'development' are internal to BlackBerry's BB10 development. I have no quarrel with the valiant third party app developers. After all, BlackBerry effectively cut their legs off with the initial half baked release of BB10 and then turning their backs on what could have been an extraordinary phone OS.

BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition 10.3.3.2205 on T-Mobile

So, would you be less bitter if BB10 had never come, and BlackBerry had switched to Android at that time instead? Do you believe BB10 could have gained more market share and become viable if it had been in the state it's in now (which, to my eyes, is pretty damn good and better than Android) at launch?

[TCB on Z10]

the initial half baked release of BB10

I disagree with this mantra. I started BB10 early and it was better than anything out there from the get go. It even had the most apps of any new OS on introduction in history. It has given us years of great use and, for those who are not big on apps, will give us years more.

BB, Still the One

[eshropshire]

Thank you for that latest regurgitation from the book of Troy, but my post had absolutely nothing to do with BB10. I know you are eager to repeat your well-rehearsed thesis but it makes no sense in this context.

It's not the book of Troy, it's the book of reality. Blackberry's failure was having the crazy Co CEO management organization. BlackBerry needed to start their transformation in 2006. Blackberry's CEO sat on their collective buts for years until they made moves to modernize their platform.

Those who say marketing would have overcome this, explain how Microsoft spent millions on marketing Windows Phones and their market share plummeted over the last few years.

[keyboardweeb]

Those who say marketing would have overcome this, explain how Microsoft spent millions on marketing Windows Phones and their market share plummeted over the last few years.

Windows in a phone form factor has a longer history than Android or iOS. While evolution is to be expected over such a long period, Microsoft handled it poorly. Windows developers tell me MS kept pulling the rug out from under them with respect to app development, making it harder to create and maintain apps. A similar thing is happening to Firefox as they shed the XUL extension model--many developers are calling it quits, because not only is this not the first time Mozilla has changed things enough to necesssitate full rewrites, but this time there's no longer any way to do what many popular extensions do.