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  1. xMatter's Avatar
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    Default How The Sales Chain Is Destroying RIM

    So I went into AT&T yesterday to upgrade our work phones to the iPhone 4s (management decision) and the Sales Rep there proceeds to tell me how RIM will be the next Palm because I asked why they aren't carrying the 9860. This was 2 days after the BB Expo that just happened. Obviously AT&T Reps aren't really into technology news or else they might have some sort of information towards the new platform. I dont know if the Sales Reps are making personal decisions to sell other devices other than BB, or if corporate is pushing it upon them. But based on the article about the AT&T CEO crying because the iPhone consumes a boatload of data (and androids more so) you would think these carriers would push for something that hogs less of their bandwidth. Idiots!!!

    About a month ago my wife went into Staples to purchase me a PlayBook and the rep there say they no longer carry them and tried selling her another tablet. I warned her before she went in that I did not want anything else besides the PB and that they would try to sell her something else (she thinks all tech items are the same). It's a shame that consumers must defend themselves when trying to purchase the platform of their choice.

    With all that said, I shall purchase RIM stocks shortly.

    Anyone else like to vent about this?
    a killer blackberry would make me waffles after exiting bedside mode
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  2. dew066's Avatar
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    Where I live there are no more Unlimited Data Plans through Telus and it is funny how people don't understand. My BB costs me about $65, my girlfriend's iPhone 4 about $75. I have a Playbook and 9900 and I am faster than my girlfriend at communicating.

    Store people are funny, they don't understand the quality of a device that just works. I need to get done, so I use my BB. If I wanted a gaming device I would buy a Sony PSP, lol.

    RIM will be okay, but there is a concern out there that many companies are developing business applications for Android & iPhone not BB. A guy I know sells touch screen restaurant ordering/management systems and he says servers can use their iPhone to link to the system and take orders at the table. Buy the cheap App and the server can use her own iPhone with no added cost to the business. So, in order for my friend to show potential clients this valuable tool he had to get rid of his BB and get an iPhone. This is how Apple is attacking the business side of the market.
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    It is true. The Sprint rep for work went on and on about how he had been a die-hard BB guy but didn't like them anymore. Said they weren't nearly as "good" as the Android Admiral they're selling to replace the BB PTT devices. He's right about the Droid being better than the IDEN PTT BB, but he was talking in general. My 9900 is easier to use and much faster than the android. To the OP's point, the guy wouldn't sell BB's and refused to talk about them. Word isn't getting out about the newer BBs. The problem is one of perception and until the media catches on that Rim is producing some good devices, perception isn't likely to change. It's too bad. Hopefully 10 will grab the spotlight.
    “When you hold resentment toward another, you are bound to that person or condition by an emotional link that is stronger than steel. Forgiveness is the only way to dissolve that link and get free.” C. Ponder

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  4. n8ter#AC's Avatar
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    Well the newer blackberries aren't new anymore. A bit late to try to push them especially since they won't be upgradeable to BB10 and everyone is talking about that (well, at least anyone who cares about BB).
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    My work droid is newer and doesn't measure up.
    “When you hold resentment toward another, you are bound to that person or condition by an emotional link that is stronger than steel. Forgiveness is the only way to dissolve that link and get free.” C. Ponder

    101 Lecture Series
  6. calicocat2010's Avatar
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    I remember when I went into my AT&T store to fix what problems I was having with my 9900 and to hopefully get an exchange, but anyway the Rep I spoke to he was trying to convince me how Androids are better and blah blah. So I spoke up and said, "Well BlackBerry has the best security and that's important to me so I'm sticking with BlackBerry." The rep responded back with, "Well Android has good security too." I was thinking to myself, "Uh no they don't. The recent article I had read was that BlackBerry still is the Best at Security that they were still number 1". I mean this guy could not had been more naive thinking Android is better in that department. No way, I have read Android being hacked with malware viruses, heck there's a new article featured about that Today.

    These Reps will surely be putting their foot in their mouth eventually once BB10 starts selling like hotcakes!
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    Quote Originally Posted by calicocat2010 View Post
    I remember when I went into my AT&T store to fix what problems I was having with my 9900 and to hopefully get an exchange, but anyway the Rep I spoke to he was trying to convince me how Androids are better and blah blah. So I spoke up and said, "Well BlackBerry has the best security and that's important to me so I'm sticking with BlackBerry." The rep responded back with, "Well Android has good security too." I was thinking to myself, "Uh no they don't. The recent article I had read was that BlackBerry still is the Best at Security that they were still number 1". I mean this guy could not had been more naive thinking Android is better in that department. No way, I have read Android being hacked with malware viruses, heck there's a new article featured about that Today.

    These Reps will surely be putting their foot in their mouth eventually once BB10 starts selling like hotcakes!
    No ecosystem, features Android and iOS had 3 years ago, image of a grandpa phone, the sales reps are in this to make money.

    Imagine me as a salesperson. I need money. Salary. If you want a Blackberry, I'll sell you a Blackberry. If you ask me to show you the smartphones, I'll show you the iOS and Android devices. Better apps. More apps. Better hardware. Multiple choices. EASY SALE.

    Why should I be stupid and try and sell the general consumer something I know they won't be as happy with?

    Now fast forward to November/December. New iPhone. New Nexus. New Android OS in the shape of Jelly Bean. WHY would any sales rep try and sell you a BB10 device unless you specifically ask for it. Sales reps and the carriers could care less what they sell you really, they just want the sale and the 2-3-year contracts. Remember the Palm Pre, Palm Pixi? Why would I try and sell you those when you could get an iOS or Android device? Apply same strategy here.

    And guess what. The general consumer is not going to walk into a carrier store and ask for a BB10 device.
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    Sales people knowledge of the products they sell is very limited and it will not get any better because companies like best buy hire the youngest and cheapest workforce they can. No offense but these kids have next to no life experience and for them to tell me or other consumers what we need is a joke.
    You ask about the PlayBook and your are told it's smaller and we're not going to carry.them anymore they are going out of business. You ask about ipad they tell you it's bigger and has more apps. Nothing but apps.
    They advise the iPad cannot run without apps.
    This is what Cell phone and tablet sales have become. Do your own home work then choose your device.
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  9. xMatter's Avatar
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    Neller: I couldn't agree more with this statement: "Imagine me as a salesperson. I need money. Salary. If you want a Blackberry, I'll sell you a Blackberry. If you ask me to show you the smartphones, I'll show you the iOS and Android devices. Better apps. More apps. Better hardware. Multiple choices. EASY SALE."

    But the fact of what I was trying to say, is that these reps should not base consumer
    choice on personal/analytic speculation. Who do they think they are, employees of BGR? If reps actually gave a crap about helping the consumer make an informed decision, more BBs would be sold. But no, these reps talk about APPS and compare the selection. Face it, most people want Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Text Messaging. I am pretty sure BB has all that.

    There's obviously an incentive for reps to sell iPhones and Androids over BB. I like all the platforms if I have to be honest, just think it's extremely ty to put a company in the hands of uneducated, negligent reps. RIM could spend millions marketing their new line of products, but in the end, the sales rep make the final call with persuasion.
    a killer blackberry would make me waffles after exiting bedside mode
  10. calicocat2010's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neller View Post
    No ecosystem, features Android and iOS had 3 years ago, image of a grandpa phone, the sales reps are in this to make money.



    Imagine me as a salesperson. I need money. Salary. If you want a Blackberry, I'll sell you a Blackberry. If you ask me to show you the smartphones, I'll show you the iOS and Android devices. Better apps. More apps. Better hardware. Multiple choices. EASY SALE.



    Why should I be stupid and try and sell the general consumer something I know they won't be as happy with?



    Now fast forward to November/December. New iPhone. New Nexus. New Android OS in the shape of Jelly Bean. WHY would any sales rep try and sell you a BB10 device unless you specifically ask for it. Sales reps and the carriers could care less what they sell you really, they just want the sale and the 2-3-year contracts. Remember the Palm Pre, Palm Pixi? Why would I try and sell you those when you could get an iOS or Android device? Apply same strategy here.



    And guess what. The general consumer is not going to walk into a carrier store and ask for a BB10 device.

    All I was saying is BB has the Best Security overall and the Rep was just trying to get me to change my mind about BB if my phone was totally unusable. Phone still works and Security is what I like.

    Most loyal BB customers Will walk in asking for the BB10 device because we have Seen what BB Jam showed us. There's more to it, but overall We BB fans are Anxiously awaiting the release of these phones.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    I wait for the future...to COME back to BlackBerry!
  11. bdguru's Avatar
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    Just because you are in cell/phone sales in a store, does not mean you have a clue. What someone should do is......do homework on an iphone and then go to either the AT&T or Apple store and ask real questions The "sales reps" can not answer the specific questions. Just my thought.

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  12. xMatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdguru View Post
    Just because you are in cell/phone sales in a store, does not mean you have a clue. What someone should do is......do homework on an iphone and then go to either the AT&T or Apple store and ask real questions The "sales reps" can not answer the specific questions. Just my thought.

    Sent from my VZW 9330.
    I do agree with you to an extent. But most consumers are new to smartphones and reply heavily on sales reps to SELL them on a certain device. My complaint was that BB was not included with the selling scheme, and then when I asked about a certain BB device, i got a rundown of why BB sucks in his opinion. He could of just stopped at "we don't carry that model because our display shelves are full", but he didn't. That's my major issue with why BB has this stigma.

    On top of that, they still have room for the iPhone 3GS!
    Last edited by xmatter; 05-05-2012 at 10:27 PM.
    a killer blackberry would make me waffles after exiting bedside mode
  13. bdguru's Avatar
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    @xmatter. I agree. We in the USA have 4 "major carriers". Sad but true that IPHONE won a market share. Then came the pieced together Droid. All four carriers went "nuts" for Droid. One carrier started with the Apple Brick then became two. People that buy IPHONE and DROID, do not know how to use their phones. They saw a co-worker at happy hour or a Droid commercial for "buy 2" deals. I like, love and respect RIM. We are a different class of phone users. Sorry for my bable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by calicocat2010 View Post
    I remember when I went into my AT&T store to fix what problems I was having with my 9900 and to hopefully get an exchange, but anyway the Rep I spoke to he was trying to convince me how Androids are better and blah blah. So I spoke up and said, "Well BlackBerry has the best security and that's important to me so I'm sticking with BlackBerry." The rep responded back with, "Well Android has good security too." I was thinking to myself, "Uh no they don't. The recent article I had read was that BlackBerry still is the Best at Security that they were still number 1". I mean this guy could not had been more naive thinking Android is better in that department. No way, I have read Android being hacked with malware viruses, heck there's a new article featured about that Today.

    These Reps will surely be putting their foot in their mouth eventually once BB10 starts selling like hotcakes!
    And when they do BB will be the best and they will bad mouth android or ios. Its all about selling whats hot to them. IE the totally disgusting commercial for Verizon with the crying mom and daughter buying a razr max. Damn I hate that commercial.
  15. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdguru View Post
    @xmatter. I agree. We in the USA have 4 "major carriers". Sad but true that IPHONE won a market share. Then came the pieced together Droid. All four carriers went "nuts" for Droid. One carrier started with the Apple Brick then became two. People that buy IPHONE and DROID, do not know how to use their phones. They saw a co-worker at happy hour or a Droid commercial for "buy 2" deals. I like, love and respect RIM. We are a different class of phone users. Sorry for my bable.

    Sent from my VZW 9330.
    Oh no... you are not going to leave us hanging. How, pray tell, should that "class" of phone users use their phones?

    I know that there is a verse somewhere in the Internationally Sanctioned Guide to Phone Use that they must be missing, and they could use your enlightenment.
  16. bdguru's Avatar
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    Yea man. That add is horrible. Like chalk on a wall

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  17. bdguru's Avatar
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    Everybody use the phone that works for him/her. Im a VZW customer and I must say that Im tired of going into a store and seeing two walls. Droid wall. Apple wall. Ask a question about a BB and they say well.....and have no answer. I will ask you this....Do u consider youself a BB user? If you can answer yes, you might be.

    Sent from my VZW 9330.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dew066 View Post
    I have a Playbook and 9900 and I am faster than my girlfriend at communicating.

    ............

    So, in order for my friend to show potential clients this valuable tool he had to get rid of his BB and get an iPhone. This is how Apple is attacking the business side of the market.
    And this, in a nutshell, is why RIM is struggling even in its core markets. Yes, BBs are probably the fastest way to communicate. But MOST businesses are not about what is the fastest way to send a message to someone else. There are many many other aspects to a business, and a good App platform allows a business to integrate the device into new workflows.

    Other examples of this are salespeople carrying iPads with Cell Data service so they can show off a bunch of different things to their potential clients (e.g., I had an investment professional demo all the tools that would be made available to me, as well as show me a bunch of animated charts, and videos about their successes). With accessories like Square, suddenly lemonade stands can take credit cards. The impact was first visible to me when I saw food carts in NYC start accepting credit cards, which they swiped against their phone. These are all real business uses, with the potential to drive a lot of recurring sales, which BB's strengths do not cater to.

    And that is the idea behind BB10. To fill this gap.
  19. xMatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdguru View Post
    Everybody use the phone that works for him/her. Im a VZW customer and I must say that Im tired of going into a store and seeing two walls. Droid wall. Apple wall. Ask a question about a BB and they say well.....and have no answer. I will ask you this....Do u consider youself a BB user? If you can answer yes, you might be.

    Sent from my VZW 9330.
    Anyone can use whatever works for them, but the main point is.... a new smartphone user does not know what works for them. The APPS shouldn't be the selling point if they never owned a smartphone before, most new buyers don't even know what apps are. Since most teenagers are the new smartphone owners, one would assume they are going to text a lot. Why wouldn't a rep at least SUGGEST a BB since they are made for communication, especially ones with physical keyboards.
    a killer blackberry would make me waffles after exiting bedside mode
  20. n8ter#AC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calicocat2010 View Post
    All I was saying is BB has the Best Security overall and the Rep was just trying to get me to change my mind about BB if my phone was totally unusable. Phone still works and Security is what I like.

    Most loyal BB customers Will walk in asking for the BB10 device because we have Seen what BB Jam showed us. There's more to it, but overall We BB fans are Anxiously awaiting the release of these phones.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Sorry I've spent enough time in carrier stores and can you guys how many times I've heard anyone walk in asking about which phone is best to them, cause of security?

    You got it, none.

    No one cares about that. Continuing to harp about it does nothing but make BB users seem desperate. If the consumer market was that hard up about security BBs would still be ruling the market here and in other places. People don't care, especially when a lot of their stuff go on sites like Facebook/Twitter/Foursquare and through IM networks that RIM frankly cannot control.

    Security in BBs matter for businesses. It's almost an afterthought to consumers unless you do pretty much all of your communication through BBM since even with email the mail can be intercepted at the other end if the person isn't using a BB.

    Communications is two way and has two end points that are potential holes. The only way to eliminate that is to BBM everything and there simply aren't enough people here who use BBs to make that possible.

    The security advantages in the consumer market are pretty much ignorable here, that's why the REP ignored your "Security Consciousness." You're harping about something that doesn't matter and frankly he (and most other consumers here) don't care about. Your BB won't save you if your Twitter/FB gets hacks, or your GMail/Hotmail, or whatever, and it's impossbile to limit everything to BIS/BBM communications here because it's hard to even find people who use Blackberries.

    For business they can use something like Good and achieve great security for corporate data on iOS and Android devices. Any business not using Good or BES likely couldn't care less what phone you use since they probably don't need that level of security since they don't have normal consumers collaborating about trade secrets in open email, anyways... Those that need it, use BB (obviously). You act like businesses don't weigh the drawbacks and benefits before making these types of important decisions. Are you that naive?
    Last edited by N8ter; 05-06-2012 at 02:15 PM.
  21. n8ter#AC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmatter View Post
    Anyone can use whatever works for them, but the main point is.... a new smartphone user does not know what works for them. The APPS shouldn't be the selling point if they never owned a smartphone before, most new buyers don't even know what apps are. Since most teenagers are the new smartphone owners, one would assume they are going to text a lot. Why wouldn't a rep at least SUGGEST a BB since they are made for communication, especially ones with physical keyboards.
    That's 100% false. Most new buyers will know what Apps are cause smartphone penetration here is like 50% and there's a 90% chance they know someone with a smartphone and see them using apps all the time. There's also an 80% chance it's an Android or iOS device and Peer Pressure is powerful. Most new buyers will lean towards Android and iOS here, anyways - and sales figues back that up.

    This whole "the browser works fine for that" is a farce when you get down to how people really use smartphones.

    People are increasingly not caring that much about physical keyboards anymore. Even RIM knows this, and HTC which made most of the best landscape sliders out there. Physical keyboard hardcores are a distant minority to people who prefer full touchscreen devices. That brings me back to the security statements I made in my earlier post...
  22. cgk
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmatter View Post
    This was 2 days after the BB Expo that just happened. Obviously AT&T Reps aren't really into technology news or else they might have some sort of information towards the new platform.
    Why would a salesman get into a discussion of an object they can't actually sell you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgk View Post
    Why would a salesman get into a discussion of an object they can't actually sell you?
    EXACTLY.

    I mean, while they are it, they might as well have info on the new Boeing Intergalactic Cruiser set to come out in 2135.
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    Quote Originally Posted by N8ter View Post
    Sorry I've spent enough time in carrier stores and can you guys how many times I've heard anyone walk in asking about which phone is best to them, cause of security?

    You got it, none.

    No one cares about that. Continuing to harp about it does nothing but make BB users seem desperate. If the consumer market was that hard up about security BBs would still be ruling the market here and in other places. People don't care, especially when a lot of their stuff go on sites like Facebook/Twitter/Foursquare and through IM networks that RIM frankly cannot control.

    Security in BBs matter for businesses. It's almost an afterthought to consumers unless you do pretty much all of your communication through BBM since even with email the mail can be intercepted at the other end if the person isn't using a BB.

    Communications is two way and has two end points that are potential holes. The only way to eliminate that is to BBM everything and there simply aren't enough people here who use BBs to make that possible.

    The security advantages in the consumer market are pretty much ignorable here, that's why the REP ignored your "Security Consciousness." You're harping about something that doesn't matter and frankly he (and most other consumers here) don't care about. Your BB won't save you if your Twitter/FB gets hacks, or your GMail/Hotmail, or whatever, and it's impossbile to limit everything to BIS/BBM communications here because it's hard to even find people who use Blackberries.

    For business they can use something like Good and achieve great security for corporate data on iOS and Android devices. Any business not using Good or BES likely couldn't care less what phone you use since they probably don't need that level of security since they don't have normal consumers collaborating about trade secrets in open email, anyways... Those that need it, use BB (obviously). You act like businesses don't weigh the drawbacks and benefits before making these types of important decisions. Are you that naive?
    Dude! Take a chill pill. I know what I like and that's security. No one wants to be hacked, and it's true BlackBerry HAS the best security and recent articles have proven that. The guy was just trying to state that Android has the best security when I have read that they Don't! That's ALL. Quit harping on me for voicing my Opinion for when it comes to Privacy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by travaz View Post
    And when they do BB will be the best and they will bad mouth android or ios. Its all about selling whats hot to them. IE the totally disgusting commercial for Verizon with the crying mom and daughter buying a razr max. Damn I hate that commercial.

    Agreed. Very annoying ad.

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