1. DStLouis's Avatar
    I generally agree that without the BES10 services, its is apparently the same security level then any other phone.

    ...But.
    Peoples must keep in mind that BB OS10 is QNX based, and that is making an important difference here.
    Any virus, malware,... that you could received thru email (or any other way) will not be able to hurt much your system. In fact, it can't set itself any actions outside off its own sandglass, that QNX fundamentals.
    So you could easily figured out that, for instance, a virus restricted to the email sandglass will be almost innofensive for your devices and critical datas.
    12-11-13 03:32 PM
  2. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I generally agree that without the BES10 services, its is apparently the same security level then any other phone.

    ...But.
    Peoples must keep in mind that BB OS10 is QNX based, and that is making an important difference here.
    Any virus, malware,... that you could received thru email (or any other way) will not be able to hurt much your system. In fact, it can't set itself any actions outside off its own sandglass, that QNX fundamentals.
    So you could easily figured out that, for instance, a virus restricted to the email sandglass will be almost innofensive for your devices and critical datas.
    I think you mean sandbox? And as I mentioned earlier, a rogue app does not have to be malware to wreak havoc. Adware can cause plenty of headaches.

    Also there are vulnerabilities to data even if the OS is not compromised.
    12-11-13 03:37 PM
  3. canuckvoip's Avatar
    OH WAIT I DO HAVE ONE ANDROID PORT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Poynt. I just took a screenshot for another thread and I saw Poynt and I realised that I didn't know about that one. But I checked and it is a port. Only one I've got.

    oh on the html5 app....I'd have to check the app....I don't know much about them....
    Ahh! I forgot about Poynt. Are you going to delete it?
    Regarding HTML5, it's just one of the approved development platforms for BB10:
    Native Development
    Web and WebWorks Development
    Adobe AIR Development
    Android� Runtime Development
    Java Development
    Testing and Deployment
    BlackBerry� Enterprise Server Development
    BlackBerry� Themes & Animated Graphics
    12-11-13 03:43 PM
  4. Meaty123's Avatar
    Unless someone hacks the other platform and does some serious damage then maybe security would be the selling point... Otherwise, for average users, it doesn't really matter... I still love my Z10 though...
    12-11-13 05:22 PM
  5. playbook20's Avatar
    My take on this is that security is incredibly important, more so now that ever before. People have all kinds of stuff on their phones. Take SD cards, pictures, movies, etc. Think android lets you encrypt the SD card as standard? No. Google sees it as a security risk, so they don't even have a standard encryption option for SD cards baked in to the OS. Not sure about 4.4, I now only stick with Nexus devices.

    Security is about the balance of covert and overt, majority of people don't understand encryption, they want to buy their shiny new phone and start yakking, taking selfies, or what ever the hell else they do. For the majority, security features need to be automatically enabled during the setup phase and then they disappear, that's what people want. That's what iOS gives them, Android (on a Nexus device) does but you have to enable the feature in security, which I think is a mistake.

    I think as far as security is concerned BB10 is right at the top, the OS is as secure as can be, even without BB10 server. What does that give you? Gives companies control over their side of the phone, control of policies (browser access, etc) and most importantly ability to lock own that 'work' half of the phone, to secure / delete the work side (a few people I knew first realised they had been fired when their 'work' side of the phone was locked / deleted). Your phone isn't less secure because it isn't hooked up to BB10 Server. Blackberry's are secure, and anyone wanting to take it to the next level (securing their actual comms) can, www.secusmart.com This company could have used any OS for this, they chose BB10, why? You need a secure foundation that cannot be easily penetrated so the comms stay secure. That should say a lot for how secure the OS is.

    Ultimately people are ignorant, they want things to just work. They don't think it will happen to them, until it does. Security needs to be working for you transparently from the get go, make it simple, make it powerful, so people, from Joe public to some CEO / Govt. official can use their secure phone as easily as their non secure phone.

    Side loading .apk files, well these files run in their own space, they are heavily sand boxed, from the white papers I've read regarding QNX its far more difficult for these files to infiltrate the OS, tweak the settings, etc. The applications are only given the resources they require to run within this secure space.

    Apples got it right, people don't know what they want until you tell them. Only tell them what they need to know. Blackberry needs to start telling people what they want, what they are missing out on. I'd say create their own reality distortion field, but distorting reality might be a little insecure. Maybe just stick to the hard facts... and offer more content!
    Paisley Pirate likes this.
    12-11-13 05:34 PM
  6. southlander's Avatar
    I don't even think in NA and pretty much any market where BlackBerry is doing poorly on handset sales, that they are even TRYING to sell to consumers, much less market security as a top selling point to consumers.

    It's all about the enterprise. BlackBerry has said this every since T Heins came in.

    Security does matter in the enterprise. Of course it's not like the competition is standing still in that segment and letting BlackBerry have it. We will see what starts to happen in 2014 with J Chen.

    Oh. And that prosumer stuff is bull.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1055
    Last edited by southlander; 12-11-13 at 06:12 PM.
    12-11-13 06:02 PM
  7. Atmarix's Avatar
    I agree, but the average consumer may be not stupid, but they're not smart either. What i mean is that most people use their phone for ordinary stuff. In less words they don't feel the need for a highly secure phone.
    People just want stylish, bigger, faster, with lots of options (apps), whether they need it or not.
    m1a1mg likes this.
    12-11-13 06:32 PM
  8. scribacco's Avatar
    OP, I assume then you have removed the locks from your doors and windows? After all, you are no one special so you don't need to have a secure home.

    While security may not be a selling point at this time, to say ordinary people don't need it is ridiculous. They may not know they need it, but they do.
    we need it but whatever bolt you installed on the door or whatever alarm you are only protecting yourself from the non professional thieves, the professionals will still enter your house and clean it no matter what. Same for your smartphone or computer, the professional hackers will do what they want no matter what device or secure server you use.
    m1a1mg likes this.
    12-11-13 07:06 PM
  9. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    There's my stock BlackBerry with BB only apps and my online banking from the credit union uses two-step authentication. Just for kicks and giggles I keep my memory encrypted. It's the most I feel I'm capable of doing given my decision to consistently use my BlackBerry for literally everything computing related that I do. I suppose anyone could say they are "IT professionals" but it is something I've noticed for an awful long time now then when subjects like security and online banking are tossed around, I rarely hear more praise for anything else than I do BlackBerry. That said, I suppose if I've done all I feel I can in terms of what I choose to use and how I choose to do it, having some technical sense of what is right/wrong or smart/risky, if it's my destiny to have my data intercepted or my ident stolen, then they worked awfully hard for near nothing, I just hope it was a pain in their arse. That definitely goes to the real pros like the NSA. As OmniTech wrote in a different thread their invasion of privacy is very much multi-pronged and if I can break just one or two of them, I feel pretty good.

    Posted from BitPusher's Q10
    12-11-13 07:37 PM
  10. sirchocolate's Avatar
    OP, I agree with u. keyboard and hub is great!
    12-11-13 07:45 PM
  11. BlackBerry Guy's Avatar
    No I see android and ios as a house with doors and locks on them and it serves the general public well enough. A secure BlackBerry on bes 10 is a fortress like the white house not needed by the general public.

    Posted via CB10
    Good analogy. It's not like iOS and Android don't have security measures...they do, just not to the extent of a BES enabled BlackBerry. Even then, what's available on the other platforms are probably considered "good enough" for most everyday consumers. It's difficult for BlackBerry to sell security, because it's not all equal across the board. Especially if they're targeting consumers, the majority of whom will not be connecting their device to a BES. They risk creating the same confusion that occurred with Balance, where people wanted the feature, only to learn sometime later on that it doesn't work on their current setup.

    Like pantlesspenguin mentioned earlier on, I believe people are still the greatest compromise to security and privacy. Every time they click on an unknown link, download an app from a sketchy source, geotag their pictures to broadcast to everyone where they are etc, they are putting themselves at risk. Going back to the analogy of the house with locks - you can have the best locks money can buy, but what good are they if you don't use them.
    jason9900 and pantlesspenguin like this.
    12-11-13 11:42 PM
  12. jason9900's Avatar
    Good analogy. It's not like iOS and Android don't have security measures...they do, just not to the extent of a BES enabled BlackBerry. Even then, what's available on the other platforms are probably considered "good enough" for most everyday consumers. It's difficult for BlackBerry to sell security, because it's not all equal across the board. Especially if they're targeting consumers, the majority of whom will not be connecting their device to a BES. They risk creating the same confusion that occurred with Balance, where people wanted the feature, only to learn sometime later on that it doesn't work on their current setup.

    Like pantlesspenguin mentioned earlier on, I believe people are still the greatest compromise to security and privacy. Every time they click on an unknown link, download an app from a sketchy source, geotag their pictures to broadcast to everyone where they are etc, they are putting themselves at risk. Going back to the analogy of the house with locks - you can have the best locks money can buy, but what good are they if you don't use them.
    Hit the nail on the head
    12-12-13 01:26 AM
  13. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Ahh! I forgot about Poynt. Are you going to delete it?
    Regarding HTML5, it's just one of the approved development platforms for BB10:
    Native Development
    Web and WebWorks Development
    Adobe AIR Development
    Android� Runtime Development
    Java Development
    Testing and Deployment
    BlackBerry� Enterprise Server Development
    BlackBerry� Themes & Animated Graphics
    No I won't. I've been using it forever without realizing it was a port.

    As I mentioned, sadly, I've got no banking apps in my Z.


    Sent from whichever BBM carrying device I happen to grab, via Tapatalk
    12-12-13 01:59 AM
  14. bennelong's Avatar
    Well the thing is is BB10 really anymore secure if you are not on BES? And downloading leaks and installing APK's from places like 1mobile opens a whole new can of worms. So I guess this is a question to those who say security is important.
    What about your consumer BB10 makes it more secure than ios and Android?
    The strict memory management of the kernel and the fact that no-one can gain root privileges are a couple of things that come to mind.
    The list of known exploits (both past and present) against Android and iOS is quite a long one, yet you continually state that a platform with no such history is unecessary and somehow not for the average user?
    Your "majority of users" on these other platforms are using outdated handsets which will receive no hardware or software updates also.

    I should add that people didn't particularly feel a need for Car Airbags until they were introduced either.


    Posted via CB10
    12-12-13 02:59 AM
  15. NursingNinja's Avatar
    No I see android and ios as a house with doors and locks on them and it serves the general public well enough. A secure BlackBerry on bes 10 is a fortress like the white house not needed by the general public.

    Posted via CB10
    It's not just that, remember that Google requires that you set up your account a certain way to use it and monetizes you on the street corner. Yes it has a password you can put on it. That way nobody else can talk to your Google pimp.

    Posted via CB10
    Omnitech likes this.
    12-12-13 06:29 AM
  16. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    It's not just that, remember that Google requires that you set up your account a certain way to use it and monetizes you on the street corner. Yes it has a password you can put on it. That way nobody else can talk to your Google pimp.

    Posted via CB10
    What is this "certain way" Google "requires" you to set up your phone? When you set up an Android device YOU check the boxes to give it the access you want and nothing more. YOU enter the accounts you want to use on the device.
    12-12-13 06:43 AM
  17. DannyAves's Avatar
    Maybe this might contribute something to the discussion.

    "According to security company Arxan Technologies, all of the top 100 paid Android apps have been hacked. (Yes, all, as in 100 percent.) Apple�s doing better, with only 56 percent of their top paid iOS apps hacked"

    Hackers target banking apps on Apple and Google platforms | PCWorld
    bennelong likes this.
    12-12-13 07:30 AM
  18. jh07's Avatar
    What is this "certain way" Google "requires" you to set up your phone? When you set up an Android device YOU check the boxes to give it the access you want and nothing more. YOU enter the accounts you want to use on the device.
    I could use a little help. My wife has a S3 and when she wants to download an app, she has to agree or accept the permissions that the application wants or she can't download it.
    You wrote when you set up the phone there is a way to not have an app request certain permissions or maybe not require them? Cause if that's the case, can I wipe out her phone and go through the set up and do this? I showed her last night that Angry birds go wanted all these permissions and on my Z10, I think it asked, not required BBM, which I denied it. I know she downloaded a magnification app and the permissions required were stupid.

    I'd appreciate your suggestions.

    Posted via CB10
    12-12-13 07:38 AM
  19. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    Well the thing is is BB10 really anymore secure if you are not on BES? And downloading leaks and installing APK's from places like 1mobile opens a whole new can of worms. So I guess this is a question to those who say security is important.
    What about your consumer BB10 makes it more secure than ios and Android?
    Marginally, but not enough to matter to anyone really.
    12-12-13 07:39 AM
  20. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    I could use a little help. My wife has a S3 and when she wants to download an app, she has to agree or accept the permissions that the application wants or she can't download it.
    You wrote when you set up the phone there is a way to not have an app request certain permissions or maybe not require them? Cause if that's the case, can I wipe out her phone and go through the set up and do this? I showed her last night that Angry birds go wanted all these permissions and on my Z10, I think it asked, not required BBM, which I denied it. I know she downloaded a magnification app and the permissions required were stupid.

    I'd appreciate your suggestions.

    Posted via CB10
    I didn't mention apps in my post. I was referring to the setup process when you first get your phone. This concerns location services, accounts, etc, but not apps that you download afterward. If you want to deny certain app permissions I think the only way to do that is to root the device. I've heard RUMORED that Android is going to start allowing users to block app permissions natively but I don't know how factual that is. I haven't looked into that yet.
    12-12-13 07:44 AM
  21. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    Maybe this might contribute something to the discussion.

    "According to security company Arxan Technologies, all of the top 100 paid Android apps have been hacked. (Yes, all, as in 100 percent.) Apple’s doing better, with only 56 percent of their top paid iOS apps hacked"

    Hackers target banking apps on Apple and Google platforms | PCWorld
    From the article:

    This doesn’t mean that the apps you actually download are almost certainly malware. Most of the hacked apps turn on third-party download sites rather than Apple’s and Google’s approved stores. But it’s still a serious danger that according to Arxan has “potential for massive revenue loss, unauthorized access to critical data, intellectual property (IP) theft, fraud, altered user experience and brand erosion.”

    What sort of apps do they hack most?

    Hackers often target financial apps, and with good reason. If criminals can get between you and your bank, they have access to your account numbers, passwords, and other useful information. They can easily turn your money into their money. According to an Arxan report, “This high-risk category… requires extra vigilance to protect overall application integrity.”

    But avoiding the convenience of mobile banking doesn’t make you safe. Arxan found that “Hackers continue to target free apps - 73 percent of free Android apps and 53 percent of free iOS apps were found to be hacked in 2013.”

    Luckily, most users are not likely to download from these third-party sites. In Android, a default setting limits you to downloading apps only from the Google Play store. You can change that setting, but you’re not likely to find it if you’re not looking. Apple is even stricter. You have to jailbreak an iPhone or iPad to download apps from another store.
    These third party Android app stores are the same stores that BB10 users are downloading apps from willy nilly to "bridge the app gap."

    This is also why I say I'm more paranoid giving my credit card to waitstaff to take away from my table than I am security on Android. I don't use banking apps on my phone, but I do go out to eat at least once a week. I've had far more acquaintances have their credit card number stolen from restaurants than get their number stolen from hacked apps.
    12-12-13 07:55 AM
  22. paper_monkey's Avatar
    I personally don't see it as any more secure. I'm not on BES so I'm taking my chances someone could hack my grocery list at any time!
    And how many of us regular consumers even password protect their phones..? Like a lot of people, I value convenience so yes, I have a password set on my phone but it's a 'simple' password and I have the timeout set to 30 mins so if I'm in the middle of doing something and chatting with a couple people then I don't have to unlock my phone every time I pick it up to continue the chat, just have to wake the screen up.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    12-12-13 07:59 AM
  23. paper_monkey's Avatar
    Have to agree with you here OP. Everyone I've talked to about this thinks their phone is secure enough. They don't do any financial transactions on them so its meh

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using CB Forums mobile app
    I do some light banking on it but my bank app requires a password and my card number (which are not stored in it) and then I generally do that over the cell network as I don't trust a wifi network if I didn't set it up myself and even then, I'm by no means a sys admin or network designer so I question it as well..
    12-12-13 08:01 AM
  24. paper_monkey's Avatar
    Looks like it goes against the OP which states smartphone users don't care about security.

    The inability to control permissions individually on android device (at least the ones that I own) pushed me to use BB for personal and financial things while droids are used for games and spam.
    Good point.. having never used Android I wasn't aware that it is strictly a BB thing to be able to set permissions for apps as you install them (or change them later if you so choose). I just wish the devs would make it a little more clear why they need certain permissions as I tend to shut down most of the permissions as I install.
    12-12-13 08:04 AM
  25. jh07's Avatar
    I didn't mention apps in my post. I was referring to the setup process when you first get your phone. This concerns location services, accounts, etc, but not apps that you download afterward. If you want to deny certain app permissions I think the only way to do that is to root the device. I've heard RUMORED that Android is going to start allowing users to block app permissions natively but I don't know how factual that is. I haven't looked into that yet.
    Oops, sorry about that, when I read "give it" I just assumed "it "was an application. If the rumor is true, that might change a lot of people's minds about Android.
    Thanks

    Posted via CB10
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    12-12-13 08:05 AM
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