1. CrackBerry Kevin's Avatar
    Ok Folks,

    Here's a weird question I'm dieing to know the answer to..

    How does RIM determine/distribute BlackBerry PINs??????

    The reason I ask. Well. I just reloaded my OS, was adding back BlackBerry Messenger contacts, and discovered two of my contacts have a PIN number that is off by only ONE digit. Seriously. One person's ends in a 7, the other person's ends in a 6, and preceding 7 letters/numbers are IDENTICAL.

    This seems crazy to me sort of. Now, they're both on Bolds, both bought in the same city, probably from the same store, but does this then mean RIM orders PINs in some sort of sequential order per lot? I bought mine from the same store as the two PINs I'm talking about above, but I only have the first three digits (207) in common. And these two guys have the first 7 all the same.. only the last one is off?! I always thought PINs were very all over the place. Hard to guess. This makes me think potentially otherwise.

    So what's the scoop? Coincidence? Or is there a device/geography/carrier/random thing going on here or what?!
    09-18-08 02:43 PM
  2. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    That is weird that they would be so close Kevin. Huh?
    09-18-08 02:44 PM
  3. Pete6's Avatar
    It's a lot easier keep track of if you start at 1 and then move to 2 and so on.

    It would seem reasonable that two Bolds sold side by side from the same store would have PINs close to eahk other. It also seems reasonable that two consecutive numbers could be delivered to the same store.

    What is amazing is that you know two people with consecutive PIN numbers - unless you know every BlackBerry user in Canada, that is.
    09-18-08 02:59 PM
  4. Reed McLay's Avatar
    It pretty clear they did not start the numbering sequence at 1.

    8 Hexadecimal characters provide 32 bits of information, enough for 4,294,967,295 unique address.

    By the time they work through that lot, odds are pretty good the old devices will have been long retired.

    It the case you cite, it's likely they were consecutive IMEI numbers too.
    Last edited by Reed McLay; 09-18-08 at 03:01 PM.
    09-18-08 02:59 PM
  5. Fubaz's Avatar
    I can only assume its totally random.
    and just chance of luck two of your contacts have PINs that are close.

    But then again im on my 2nd pearl in 3 months both started with 3.

    but my second is a lower number sequence with Alphas in the code this time.
    09-18-08 03:02 PM
  6. ADberry's Avatar
    There was a thread on this before I think and the conclusion was it was quite random because people with the same carrier or even the same city had PINs with a mixed amount of alphabets and numbers in their PINs. So much for the whole thing about PINs being organized.
    09-18-08 03:02 PM
  7. gabbott's Avatar
    I've always thought of a PIN as the equivalent to a MAC address so assigned during manufacturing. So devices in a similar lot would be sequential. Thats just a guess.
    09-18-08 03:20 PM
  8. Branta's Avatar
    The reason I ask. Well. I just reloaded my OS, was adding back BlackBerry Messenger contacts, and discovered two of my contacts have a PIN number that is off by only ONE digit. Seriously. One person's ends in a 7, the other person's ends in a 6, and preceding 7 letters/numbers are IDENTICAL.

    ... snip...

    So what's the scoop? Coincidence? Or is there a device/geography/carrier/random thing going on here or what?!
    Thanks for identifying the consecutive last digits. That more or less eliminates the possibility there's a checksum included within the PIN.

    All we managed to identify (reasonably sure) in the other thread about allocation method is that CDMA and GSM devices are different in the first 2 digits, and GSM doesn't seem to be region or carrier coded in any obvious way. However the sample examined was small, so there could still be a surprise discovery waiting. It is likely that PINs for each production batch are allocated from a central pile, and will be linked or sequential so there could be a block of (eg) Pearls, and the next PIN unused could be allocated to the first of a batch of Curves.

    Where they get released to distributors/users will depend entirely on the random events of production, testing, packing, and whether the stacker driver starts unloading from the front or rear of the delivery truck. This means there is a fairly high probability of finding consecutive numbers in the same outer carton, but it is not guaranteed.

    Also remember that statistical probability has a few surprises for the unwary. For example, take a sample of 10 individual random 2-digit numbers in the range 00 to 99. What is the probability that one of your numbers will be duplicated within the sample? (I forget the exact probability but I know p>0.5, so more likely than not).
    09-18-08 03:45 PM
  9. lennyj17's Avatar
    I used to think that the pins were assigned based on Carrier.

    Then there's the whole thing of PIN have All Numeric or Alpha/Numeric patterns...


    I can't figure the patterns out, I dont know what Rim's logic is.
    09-18-08 03:52 PM
  10. Reed McLay's Avatar
    I used to think that the pins were assigned based on Carrier.

    Then there's the whole thing of PIN have All Numeric or Alpha/Numeric patterns...


    I can't figure the patterns out, I dont know what Rim's logic is.
    There are 10 types of folks in this World, those that grasp the binary number system and those that don't.

    I looks strange seeing letters mixed in with numbers, but it makes sense on the binary level.

    Each hexadecimal number (0-9, A, B, C, D, E and F) represents 4 binary digits.

    0 - 0000
    1 - 0001
    2 - 0010
    3 - 0011
    4 - 0100
    5 - 0101
    6 - 0110
    7 - 0111
    8 - 1000
    9 - 1001
    A - 1010
    B - 1011
    C - 1100
    D - 1101
    E - 1110
    F - 1111

    Eight of them represent over 4 Billion combinations. This is the numbering system all digital computers are build on.
    09-18-08 04:10 PM
  11. ADberry's Avatar
    There are 10 types of folks in this World, those that grasp the binary number system and those that don't.

    I looks strange seeing letters mixed in with numbers, but it makes sense on the binary level.

    Each hexadecimal number (0-9, A, B, C, D, E and F) represents 4 binary digits.

    0 - 0000
    1 - 0001
    2 - 0010
    3 - 0011
    4 - 0100
    5 - 0101
    6 - 0110
    7 - 0111
    8 - 1000
    9 - 1001
    A - 1010
    B - 1011
    C - 1100
    D - 1101
    E - 1110
    F - 1111

    Eight of them represent over 4 Billion combinations. This is the numbering system all digital computers are build on.
    Interesting and a great way to get an inexhaustible cache of numbers!
    09-18-08 04:19 PM
  12. Sarcasm Detector's Avatar
    There are 10 types of folks in this World, those that grasp the binary number system and those that don't.

    I looks strange seeing letters mixed in with numbers, but it makes sense on the binary level.

    Each hexadecimal number (0-9, A, B, C, D, E and F) represents 4 binary digits.

    0 - 0000
    1 - 0001
    2 - 0010
    3 - 0011
    4 - 0100
    5 - 0101
    6 - 0110
    7 - 0111
    8 - 1000
    9 - 1001
    A - 1010
    B - 1011
    C - 1100
    D - 1101
    E - 1110
    F - 1111

    Eight of them represent over 4 Billion combinations. This is the numbering system all digital computers are build on.
    hey!

    edit: this post helped me notice an error i made in my PIN. I had converted TEXT to Binary instead HEX to Binary. should be correct now.
    Last edited by Sarcasm Detector; 09-18-08 at 04:40 PM.
    09-18-08 04:30 PM
  13. Reed McLay's Avatar
    00110010 00110000 00110111 01100010 00110001 00111000 00110010 00110011
    3 2 3 0 3 7 6 5 1 5 9 5 2 5 5

    That is not a pin number, the giveaway is absense of high order digits.

    Binary number are also used to represent keyboard characters and graphics elements.



    ********

    Last edited by Reed McLay; 09-18-08 at 09:52 PM.
    09-18-08 04:40 PM
  14. scottlucky13's Avatar
    Well i for one don't find it odd that you found 2 blackberries that close together.

    I use to work in a manufacturing facility that made the airbag modules for most of the cars. Basically it was the brain of the airbag. It would tell the airbag when to deploy. I worked in the IT department. Our software developers had to figure out a way to number each individual circuit board so we could keep track of it when it went down the line to each machine and then eventually out the door in a box. that way if something ever happened and the module was sent back to us we knew when it was made and when it went down the line....etc. This is how the serial number (pin) was broke down

    first 3 digits were the julian date - XXX - 1-365

    then next digit was the year - X - 0-9 Which means the product could only be made for 10 years.

    the next 4 digits was based on how many of a certain product we could make in a day - XXXX - 1-9999 so we could only make 9,999 of a certain product in one day.

    the last two were alpha characters - XX - AA-ZZ like AA, AC, BA, CD, XJ,...etc which was the module/product type.

    So you may see a serial number(pin) like this - 00280025BB
    which would mean it was made on the 2nd day of the year (Jan 2nd) in 2008 and it was the 25th circuit board/module ran and the product/module type was a BB

    Not sure how RIM broke down how to hand out PIN's but i bet it is something similar to what I explained above. Hope this helped out some
    09-18-08 05:00 PM
  15. Sarcasm Detector's Avatar
    text -> bin -> hex
    207b1823 -> 00110010 00110000 00110111 01100010 00110001 00111000 00110010 00110011 -> 32 30 37 62 31 38 32 33

    hex -> bin -> text
    207b1823 -> 0010 0000 0111 1011 0001 1000 0010 0011 -> {#

    09-18-08 05:04 PM
  16. Craig Johnston's Avatar
    They definitely are hex numbers and they are the MAC address for the device. Network cards also have unique MAC addresses.

    I believe that like network cards, parts of the number are used to identify specific attributes about the device and then the last few digits are unique.

    So some part identifies network type (CDMA, EVDO, EDGE, HSDPA), the I'm sure another part identifies the model type (like 7200 series, 8100 series, etc.)

    So having the first part of the PIN being identical makes sense since two people have the same model of device on the same type of network. I'm sure the last part which is unique is just counted up sequentially and so your example of the two people with devices jut a few digits off, likely have devices that were right next to each other off the production line.
    09-20-08 11:37 AM
  17. hackrats's Avatar
    can anyone tell me how to figure out what my pin is
    09-21-08 04:42 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD
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