[bb4life21]

This is the most stupid thread ever.

What did Google announce at their big dev conference? A bunch of "Coming soon" stuff, that's what, and nothing nearly as exciting or bold as taking bbm multi-platform.

Criminy on a crutch...

Posted via CB10

You can't be this clueless can you? PUT YOUR KOOL AID DOWN. Google announced plenty things INCLUDING..Google Hangouts and a brand newgoogle music streaming service...which are both available within a week of announcement..That is not "coming soon" But you would have to READ to know that...not just post on a thread with no logic or intelligence.

PS Announcing BBM cross platform is not "exciting" or "bold". 95% of the smartphone market has been living without it and doing just fine.

[bb4life21]

Ahh.......not sure if it's just me, but I've never seen so much action when it comes to BlackBerry?

Posted via CB10

Can you please elaborate? I will reply to your post if you list things you are referring too. Thanks

[xBURK]

Posted via CB10

[geogejost]

Reimplementimg a new platform is a major business risk and causes all the problems you mention in the OP. in essence.

However, I think they have gotten over some major hurdles and rhat BB10 is actuslly succeeding.

I'm much happier now that SKYPE works.



Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

First off thanks for the info to go along with your question so we could somewhat be on the same page. I will try my best to answer the questions...and please don't take it personal. At the end of the day it's only my opinion. I'm not declaring right or wrong.

"With the simple exemple of India, I would ask you, how much time does it need, to conquer a market like that?" When it comes to India I think Blackberry DID have a shot to dominate this market overtime...one problem now..India is a big bbm user. Now blackberry is going cross platform. So they will be battling each phone pound for pound. So I'm not sure what blackberry has it store but they better get it going. Because to the masses I'm not sure how the z10 matches up against the htc one, S4, and Iphone 5. And by match up I MEAN APPS!!

"Your focus on "time" is rather short sighted.
They neither have a high-end phablet like device, nor a low/mid-end device on the market." The key part of your sentence is THEY neither have a high end phablet.....but Samsung does. And a pretty damn good one. See this what I think some blackberry supporters (not you specifically) problem is. People are acting like consumers are sitting around waiting for a blackberry phablet etc. The note 2 is a great phone. At this point Aristo is a myth. And when it come up it has to be great and offer something new and exciting. Not just be good...... then when people complain about lack of features people reply with "it's a new OS."

"Do you think that BlackBerry's strategy only encorporates a Z10 and a Q10/Q5?" To be honest ....I don't know wtf is blackberry strategy is now. Maybe you can shed some light on this for me. To me just because you have plans to put out new phones doesn't mean you're competitive. You have to actually have to bring innovation to the game. You will definitely hate my stance on this but I will tell you since we are discussing it. Even though I love my Z10 as a consumer. I don't know why blackberry even released it at all without support from major apps. My business side looking at the Z10 says to me without apps like instagram, netflix, and skype at launch....was there ANY chance to succeed? They NEEDED these apps to be there at launch. Just by sheer numbers of people who use these you can't be successful without them. Now once again NOT saying blackberry didn't try. But to be honest they needed to throw as much money at these guys as they wanted. Now me being in business you never want to set a precedent of this....but this one time it had to be done...AT LEAST instagram. The hype for the z10 was dead before it even started due to lack of these major apps.

Now I'm pretty sure my opinion of some of these things won't be a popular one and I will get responses. But that's why I opened thread to hear everyone's viewpoint. I'm would be happy to hear your answers.Thanks

A first attempt of a reply. I need to put even. Ore thoughts into it.

I really hope that BlackBerry has become wise enough, to go with a 1080p display in their future "Aristo", which should be a 5 inch flagship device, coming out in the next 4 quarters.

The resolution from the Z10, and its apps, should be scalable easily enough, on a 1080p screen.

I also think, that it is not asked too much from a dev, to support one standard resolution more.
A dev who is already featured in BlackBerry World, has a first to market advantage, compared to his competition. For being a big fish, in a small pond, this surely isn't asked too much.

The only reason why BlackBerry has to go with that display, is feature parity with the competition.
The reason why BlackBerry fell behind so much, is that they ignored trends.
They do not have the luxury, to already ignore them again, and go with much weaker hardware.

In an ideal scenario, all of the Android manufacturers will slowly go with 1080p models this year, for the high-end, and Apple introduces an iPhone5s, with the same resolution as the 5.
If this happens, BlackBerry actually has an edge on the iPhone with specs, and an edge on Android with the better experience.

If BlackBerry misses that opportunity, this would be catastrophic.
Because the only uncertainty in my scenario, is the iPhone5s. If they up the screen size and/or resolution, BlackBerry would lag behind, with the screens they have in their flagship models
This is unacceptable, from a strategic point of view.

Another reason for upping the screen specs, is that BBRY now has the opportunity to place the Z10 as an slightly above mid-range device, and introduce the future Z5 (or what ever the name will be) as the low/mid-range device.
Like that you would have an instant possibility for market penetration in every segment.

In that scenario, the user base has become critical enough, to have every major app, that one needs. (Probably not every Google App)
So that also shouldn't be an issue anymore.

Of course, the presupposition is, that the Z10 and the Q5/Q10 have an adoption that is good enough.
From the first rumors and reported stories we can find in the tech media, this does seem in fact to be the case.
With a surprisingly big pent up demand for the Q10



Posted via CB10

[nickthebold]

BB's execution has actually been pretty decent since Heins took over. The company has engaged with the public, the press, and the developer community to a really impressive degree.

Now, they could go back to being aloof and secretive, if that helps. Maybe they didn't have to announce that BBM would be offered on other platforms until it was actually being released, but arguably this is one of the biggest announcements they'll make all year so it makes some sense to make it at the company's biggest gathering.

One thing the company has gotten much better at: actually fulfilling its targets.

Agree with beginning of post but... fulfilling it's targets? Jesu's chri'st you can't be serious right? How many delays have we seen since the launch of 'everything BlackBerry 10'?

Posted via CB10

[danprown]

Why do that now? "it is a statement of confidence", the BB10 Platform is so strong and response has been so good that it is time to make bbm an independent multiplatform messaging solution"

That is the key answer which does not ring true to me. If response to BB10 has been "so good" BBRY will project BB10 taking over more and more marketshare and there will be no need to announce BBM out of the platform at the moment with such a vague timetable.

A better answer should have been the honest one -- because it is never too late.

instagram, whatsapp, tumblr -- all businesses valued at over 1 billion dollars. BBM with Channels, executed properly would easily surpass that. BBM on OS7 and BB10 with 60 million users in Africa and Indonesia, declining yearly, and a dozen million users in North America is worthless. So the only decision is to make a play for "value" with a cross massaging platform.

However, again, it is the execution. Instagram, whatsapp, tumblr -- all created and ran by people with a vision with a start up mentality. Who has that at BBRY?

Little things give me cause for concern already:

1. Vivek telling us that BBM will not be on tablets because this is not where "mobile" is!
2. Heins telling us tablets are dead in 5 years. When did his epiphany came? When he was selling the PB?
3. No comment on desktop integration where Skype and Google have focused on. No problem, because Heins does not use a laptop! He does everything from his phone! Who needs a laptop!
4. All this nice talk about the "carriers." Who are BBRY's customers? The carriers or the consumers. Profound question. There is an inherent conflict between a good free and efficient cross massaging platform and the interest of consumers, and the interest of the telcos to charge you ridiculous fees for data, voice and messaging.
Heins was asked directly at a Q&A by a gentlemen who said I want to move to BBRY but I have come to rely on superb support from Apple and Sony. Who will help me. Heins answered -- the carriers will help you first and then BBRY will help you -- we have nice Youtube videos.

[currentodysseys]

Why do that now? "it is a statement of confidence", the BB10 Platform is so strong and response has been so good that it is time to make bbm an independent multiplatform messaging solution"

That is the key answer which does not ring true to me. If response to BB10 has been "so good" BBRY will project BB10 taking over more and more marketshare and there will be no need to announce BBM out of the platform at the moment with such a vague timetable.

A better answer should have been the honest one -- because it is never too late.

instagram, whatsapp, tumblr -- all businesses valued at over 1 billion dollars. BBM with Channels, executed properly would easily surpass that. BBM on OS7 and BB10 with 60 million users in Africa and Indonesia, declining yearly, and a dozen million users in North America is worthless. So the only decision is to make a play for "value" with a cross massaging platform.

However, again, it is the execution. Instagram, whatsapp, tumblr -- all created and ran by people with a vision with a start up mentality. Who has that at BBRY?

Little things give me cause for concern already:

1. Vivek telling us that BBM will not be on tablets because this is not where "mobile" is!
2. Heins telling us tablets are dead in 5 years. When did his epiphany came? When he was selling the PB?
3. No comment on desktop integration where Skype and Google have focused on. No problem, because Heins does not use a laptop! He does everything from his phone! Who needs a laptop!
4. All this nice talk about the "carriers." Who are BBRY's customers? The carriers or the consumers. Profound question. There is an inherent conflict between a good free and efficient cross massaging platform and the interest of consumers, and the interest of the telcos to charge you ridiculous fees for data, voice and messaging.
Heins was asked directly at a Q&A by a gentlemen who said I want to move to BBRY but I have come to rely on superb support from Apple and Sony. Who will help me. Heins answered -- the carriers will help you first and then BBRY will help you -- we have nice Youtube videos.

Some annotations on your comment for further discussion if you like:

a)"A better answer should have been the honest one -- because it is never too late" I do not understand the tendency to ask of BB to officially come out and do what nobody does, i.e: not play a major event to their favour; this is why they have it after all. It is like Microsoft: why did you replace windows XP?...imagine Gates saying: "Just because windows XP had loads of problems". Obviously he would say "To bring a better experience". My point: even though I accept the general direction your conclusion on why BB gets BBM cross platform (I have in other posts expressed my opinion to that), I do not understand why we would expect BB to take away the sugar coating attitude. It is only natural. We interpret and move on.

as per 1) and 2) regarding tablets: The "epiphany" you point out of BB and Heins, maybe came years ago, maybe it came from Bill Gates who is of the same opinion. He had voiced that clearly in interviews, that what the "tablet" was achieving, was to provide a "crippled" solution, addressing some of the issues on portability but to the expense of usability. Search through the net and you will see that. Even with W8 what he projects as target is to make the similar "tablet" products an amalgam of smaller size + desktop functionality. So I think that calling "epiphany" ironically, the statement of Heins and also the position of Bill Gates, makes you some how accountable into defending your stance, not only to Heins, but also to one of the most important Software Company founders ever to exist. And before you rush to tell me that the market for tablets is increasing, it is a fact, please do argument how they actually replace the pc (laptop or desktop). They only now start to transform (tablets) to a break-down capable lap-top style work stations, especially after microsoft came out with windows8.

Just to illustrate: an extract of a very recent (7 May 2013) article quoting Gates: ""In terms of the devices themselves, Windows 8 really is revolutionary in that it takes the benefits of the tablet and benefits of the PC and it's able to support both of those. So if you've got Surface, Surface Pro, you've got that portability of the tablet but the richness, in terms of the keyboard and Microsoft Office, of the PC."
full article at: http://mashable.com/2013/05/06/bill-...rface-windows/


3)Again, I do not get it why people think that BB would come out and present all of their future strategic thinking of the process of implementation of BBM and its evolution. This is a non well thought argument to say the least and when you dress it up with a tad of irony, well... it kind of makes me want to remind you of points 1 and 2, Heins and Bill Gates. Sorry to say that but the irony alone in your post makes it hard to resist pointing this lack of experience out, to what concerns launch of new strategic products and services from a corporate perspective.

4)The carriers were part of why BB lost traction in the market. They would never push a BB, unless one would ask for it. BB meant less money for data and more costs for NOC integration for the carriers. BB10 is way more "carrier friendly". Not a very profound question if you ask me. Either your branding makes the carrier accept you as you declare and play on your turf (eg apple) or you paly on their turf (BB10) in order to not be excluded. All these years, it has been BBs that gave data added value services on their phones to end consumers. So accusing them for not being able to keep fighting that when the company goes down, plus the fact that the new era in mobile needs high volume and speed data that BIS could not provide, it only makes me wonder on how profoundly you have pondered on that question.

5)"...a gentlemen who said I want to move to BBRY but I have come to rely on superb support from Apple and Sony. Who will help me. Heins answered -- the carriers will help you first and then BBRY will help you -- we have nice Youtube videos". Well, to begin with, the question of the gent is somehow aggressive and warrants a bit of "humor". Curious, I would be choosing to go down a more aggressive comment than what Heins did. I am a MacBook owner (it is my main pc - pretty much the only pc I now use, unless I need something on windows, then I use my older vaio). I have to tell you that the "superb" support from Apple and Sony, is not as superb as people want to portray. It is superb when it costs you excessive amounts of money (curious why this is not part of your consumer vs manufacturer argument). Also my up to now experience with Apple (eg itune client support) only resides in "cool factor", treating you in the "we are buddies lets talk casual" arena and if what you ask for is not convinient, they will never back up and pretend they did not understad" your point.

I have had a series of Apple Customer care experiences and let me tell you, they are way misrepresented. If you contact them with the mindset that they are always the best and the are helping you out based on YOUR convinience, you end up thanking them for taking more money from you, for things that should be covered by the +20/30% of their product initial cost... yet, it is not the case. On a closing remark, when I asked an Apple store to assist me to back up my wife's iphone for a transition, they only answered: "go to your carrier"... Regarding Sony's "superb" client support on the technical side... well don't get me started... after owning 2 Sony PCs, 2 Sony DSLRs and One Sony TV, I will tell you, I absolutely LOVE their products but in terms of customer care... In my country at least, they are a Joke. I ended up fixing most of my electronics myself.

BB Customer care also sucks in my country at least. But, I am kind of glad, I have my carrier to turn to for my BB phone... after all it IS a mobile that normally gets distributed via the carriers, I do not see why this is so perplex for you and basically, most phone producers, handle most things through carrier support first.

[MarsupilamiX]

Some annotations on your comment for further discussion if you like:

a)"A better answer should have been the honest one -- because it is never too late" I do not understand the tendency to ask of BB to officially come out and do what nobody does, i.e: not play a major event to their favour; this is why they have it after all. It is like Microsoft: why did you replace windows XP?...imagine Gates saying: "Just because windows XP had loads of problems". Obviously he would say "To bring a better experience". My point: even though I accept the general direction your conclusion on why BB gets BBM cross platform (I have in other posts expressed my opinion to that), I do not understand why we would expect BB to take away the sugar coating attitude. It is only natural. We interpret and move on.

as per 1) and 2) regarding tablets: The "epiphany" you point out of BB and Heins, maybe came years ago, maybe it came from Bill Gates who is of the same opinion. He had voiced that clearly in interviews, that what the "tablet" was achieving, was to provide a "crippled" solution, addressing some of the issues on portability but to the expense of usability. Search through the net and you will see that. Even with W8 what he projects as target is to make the similar "tablet" products an amalgam of smaller size + desktop functionality. So I think that calling "epiphany" ironically, the statement of Heins and also the position of Bill Gates, makes you some how accountable into defending your stance, not only to Heins, but also to one of the most important Software Company founders ever to exist. And before you rush to tell me that the market for tablets is increasing, it is a fact, please do argument how they actually replace the pc (laptop or desktop). They only now start to transform (tablets) to a break-down capable lap-top style work stations, especially after microsoft came out with windows8.

Just to illustrate: an extract of a very recent (7 May 2013) article quoting Gates: ""In terms of the devices themselves, Windows 8 really is revolutionary in that it takes the benefits of the tablet and benefits of the PC and it's able to support both of those. So if you've got Surface, Surface Pro, you've got that portability of the tablet but the richness, in terms of the keyboard and Microsoft Office, of the PC."
full article at: http://mashable.com/2013/05/06/bill-...rface-windows/


3)Again, I do not get it why people think that BB would come out and present all of their future strategic thinking of the process of implementation of BBM and its evolution. This is a non well thought argument to say the least and when you dress it up with a tad of irony, well... it kind of makes me want to remind you of points 1 and 2, Heins and Bill Gates. Sorry to say that but the irony alone in your post makes it hard to resist pointing this lack of experience out, to what concerns launch of new strategic products and services from a corporate perspective.

4)The carriers were part of why BB lost traction in the market. They would never push a BB, unless one would ask for it. BB meant less money for data and more costs for NOC integration for the carriers. BB10 is way more "carrier friendly". Not a very profound question if you ask me. Either your branding makes the carrier accept you as you declare and play on your turf (eg apple) or you paly on their turf (BB10) in order to not be excluded. All these years, it has been BBs that gave data added value services on their phones to end consumers. So accusing them for not being able to keep fighting that when the company goes down, plus the fact that the new era in mobile needs high volume and speed data that BIS could not provide, it only makes me wonder on how profoundly you have pondered on that question.

5)"...a gentlemen who said I want to move to BBRY but I have come to rely on superb support from Apple and Sony. Who will help me. Heins answered -- the carriers will help you first and then BBRY will help you -- we have nice Youtube videos". Well, to begin with, the question of the gent is somehow aggressive and warrants a bit of "humor". Curious, I would be choosing to go down a more aggressive comment than what Heins did. I am a MacBook owner (it is my main pc - pretty much the only pc I now use, unless I need something on windows, then I use my older vaio). I have to tell you that the "superb" support from Apple and Sony, is not as superb as people want to portray. It is superb when it costs you excessive amounts of money (curious why this is not part of your consumer vs manufacturer argument). Also my up to now experience with Apple (eg itune client support) only resides in "cool factor", treating you in the "we are buddies lets talk casual" arena and if what you ask for is not convinient, they will never back up and pretend they did not understad" your point.

I have had a series of Apple Customer care experiences and let me tell you, they are way misrepresented. If you contact them with the mindset that they are always the best and the are helping you out based on YOUR convinience, you end up thanking them for taking more money from you, for things that should be covered by the +20/30% of their product initial cost... yet, it is not the case. On a closing remark, when I asked an Apple store to assist me to back up my wife's iphone for a transition, they only answered: "go to your carrier"... Regarding Sony's "superb" client support on the technical side... well don't get me started... after owning 2 Sony PCs, 2 Sony DSLRs and One Sony TV, I will tell you, I absolutely LOVE their products but in terms of customer care... In my country at least, they are a Joke. I ended up fixing most of my electronics myself.

BB Customer care also sucks in my country at least. But, I am kind of glad, I have my carrier to turn to for my BB phone... after all it IS a mobile that normally gets distributed via the carriers, I do not see why this is so perplex for you and basically, most phone producers, handle most things through carrier support first.

Excellent comment.

Since I am a MacBook Pro retina user, I know exactly what you are talking about.
The rest speaks for itself. Nice read

Posted via CB10

[currentodysseys]

Excellent comment.

Since I am a MacBook Pro retina user, I know exactly what you are talking about.
The rest speaks for itself. Nice read

Posted via CB10

Thanks MarsupilamiX.

I mean, do not get me wrong, I love my MacBook (after years of constant MS powered PCs). I think it has great advantages over windows, especially for business use (although I use microsoft office for mac and Parallels for some certified Oracle connections). But ANY time I have to treat with Customer Care from Apple I cannot help than think that my wallet will behave like a child taken to the doctor's for vaccination...

[MarsupilamiX]

Thanks MarsupilamiX.

I mean, do not get me wrong, I love my MacBook (after years of constant MS powered PCs). I think it has great advantages over windows, especially for business use (although I use microsoft office for mac and Parallels for some certified Oracle connections). But ANY time I have to treat with Customer Care from Apple I cannot help than think that my wallet will behave like a child taken to the doctor's for vaccination...

I switched last year, after a loooong time with MS, because of W8.
I can't work with that.
And I have a W7 partition, because I prefer it over parallels.

But the customer service thinks way too highly of themselves. And with the 2.2k Euro I paid for the machine, + Apple Care, what Apple offers as customer service, is what I regard as the bare minimum.

I would never buy an iPhone though.

Posted via CB10

[currentodysseys]

agreed. (surprisingly hahahah).