[trsbbs]

Has Blackberry been listening to its current and loyal users too much?

Think about it. We use phones everyone else does not use or want right now.
Cell/smart phones with built in keyboards are few and far between. Low user counts=low sales.
The Z10 probably brought in more from competing platforms then the Q10 has or will? Short term gain?
We have folks that think specs don't sell a phone. But what are the first questions people ask about your new phone?
No need for speed. Oh so wrong. Even with my Z10 I can see where more speed would be great!.


Do we, the ones that still use and have used BB products for some time now, really reflect the current smartphone user base?

Or are we just a little off.....?

[SkaterGuy2k]

I think when it comes to stuff like features for the OS yes BB is listening, but when it comes to design and hardware I think they use what is current and what works perfectly for the current OS.
The thing I find funny is that some of the current Android phones have way more processor power or RAM and yet still seem to run sluggishly. Specs don't always win the race if the OS is way to HEAVY to run. Just my opinion

[amazinglygraceless]

"Off" I don't know about but I think the industry pretty much considers us a niche market. A large and sometimes vocal one but not loud and vocal enough to pay very much attention to. Fortunately, there are, at times, moments where it appears that we have the ear of BlackBerry though.

[BreakingKayfabe]

It seems like Blackberry has tried its best to compete but also stay true to their core. Which
is a reason they still offer devices with built-in physical keyboards. There is obviously some
progression going on with the way BB10 OS runs as opposed to the older OS. There is so
much of a catch 22 in the position they're in right now. They move away from physical key-
boards, loyalists are pissed. They don't keep up with specs, enthusiasts caught up in specs
are pissed. That and the fact that a vendor in a carrier store can't use the specs of a BB
phone to their advantage of selling the product over others. They can't really make BB10
work on the Playbook, loyalists are pissed. If they put BB10 on the Playbook (in its current
spec state) people are pissed because the OS sucks on the Playbook.

Bottom line: They listen to too many voices as opposed to just ours.

[tjseaman]

This image is how I feel BlackBerry feels when trying to figure out what the heck we all want, because many are saying completely different things and have a different outlook of which direction we want them to go.

Since the release of BB10, reading comments here, I know we're not all on the same page. Many don't like change and change isn't always easy but sometimes very much required.

I'm loving BB10 so far but you can't please everyone and that has to be somewhat difficult for them. Heck, I get confused of which direction some of us are wanting BlackBerry to go???




Posted via Z10 and CB10 on Rogers

[Byronjx]

The simple answer: Hell no. BlackBerry has not been listening at all. Their marketing still sucks, they F-ed up SMS on BB10 and BB Bridge on BB10 has been turned to sh*t. Also, if you have a Playbook it will be useless soon. BlackBerry has the rest of the world ignoring them and is steadily pissing off the longtime fans.

[FCSC]

The simple answer: Hell no. BlackBerry has not been listening at all. Their marketing still sucks, they F-ed up SMS on BB10 and BB Bridge on BB10 has been turned to sh*t. Also, if you have a Playbook it will be useless soon. BlackBerry has the rest of the world ignoring them and is steadily pissing off the longtime fans.

why will the playbook be useless?

will wifi all of a sudden stop working on it?

[jordandrews90]

Even with my Z10 I can see where more speed would be great!.

That's actually the first time I've ever heard that.

Posted via CB10

[kbz1960]

I really hope they don't try to please everyone here, no way anyone could. I think they would be better off by seeing what people love about other phones and bbry and try to incorporate it all together. Perhaps that is what they are trying but even that isn't working without major apps? I also wish they could've kept their mouth shut about BB10 and had more time before releasing it but that wasn't going to work either in their position.

[donnation]

The simple answer: Hell no. BlackBerry has not been listening at all. Their marketing still sucks, they F-ed up SMS on BB10 and BB Bridge on BB10 has been turned to sh*t. Also, if you have a Playbook it will be useless soon. BlackBerry has the rest of the world ignoring them and is steadily pissing off the longtime fans.

Playbook become useless? It's useless now. The web browser sucks, hangs and checkerboards constantly and will never see another update.

[FCSC]

Playbook become useless? It's useless now. The web browser sucks, hangs and checkerboards constantly and will never see another update.

so what you're saying is it was useless when you bought it?

[donnation]

so what you're saying is it was useless when you bought it?

I guess.

[Bbnivende]

Yes, Curve owners are really off.
Playbook owners who think that a tablet needs to bridge to their phone are off.
BBOS owners who seldom or even never use their phone for browsing are off.
BB owners who put up with many and varied phone reliability issues but remain loyal to the brand are off.
BB10 owners who think that you don't need a bank app are off.
Q10 owners who think that a 3.1 inch screen is big enough are off.
Anyone who is willing to purchase a Q5 or 9720 at MRSP are off.
BB10 owners who think that "text reflow" is not needed because there is a reader function are off.
Lastly my wife says that I am off for participating in Crackberry.

[jc4957]

Great topic

Posted via CB10

[Blaaargh134]

OP - the replies you have gotten just show how far people still are from understanding what went wrong. They seem to have no idea what you are talking about.

You hit the nail on the head. BlackBerry created its own original customer base. However, fast-forward to today and that base comprises only a very small percentage of the total smartphone market. .. somewhere below 5%.. sound familiar?

A whole new market emerged as a result of BlackBerry's original innovations, but they did not recognize it nor capitalize on nearly any of it.

They continued to cling to their original market, which relative to the emerging world of smartphones became significantly smaller each year.

Only a very small percentage of today's smartphone market cares only about typing and emails on their smartphone.

Nearly all of the market today also factors in a very large "Wants" list when choosing their phone. When it comes to wants, BlackBerry pays by far the least attention to these. So naturally their devices do not excel at fulfilling wants, even the "want" to upgrade the device smoothly and without accidentally losing all your data. For years, only the original bare-essential vision was kept in focus. But as a whole, things looked increasingly antiquated and out of touch.

To add fuel to their problems, later on slippage with even the bare-essentials would occur (quality issues with devices, major outages on the essential services, and so on).

BlackBerry insisted, for years, on focusing on the needs of what was becoming a niche market.

Yes, they were listening closest to, and constantly reassured by, stuffy executives that only cared about having email on their phone. Meanwhile, entire companies and countless personal users began to seriously care about having a well-implemented Facebook on their phone, along with an endless list of other features and apps.

As a result, every year the devices fell a bit further behind the expectations of the much larger emerging market where your smartphone is your personal computer on the go.

And finally, this emerging market was incorrectly perceived as somehow separate from the original niche market: "We need tools, not toys.". Wrong, the correct statement to make would have been: "We need tools, and toys.".

The new market here also consists of all customers of the original market. The stuffy executive was waking up more every year to the reality that he/she could also have great browsing on their smartphone, and every year hearing more complaints from the people under them about these stuffy devices they were being forced to use.

And there you have it.

[Byronjx]

For those who think the Playbook will survive the near future: As with any phone, tablet, computer, etc. if it is not updated/supported to keep up with apps, websites and internet speeds it will become slower and more "laggy" with time. The argument can be made that the Playbook is close to useless now. Many people that have Playbooks have not touched it recently or pick it up and play with it out of nostalgia. BB10 useless bridge hasn't help keep the Playbooks out there in rotation either. My BlackBerry Tour still works (Wi-Fi and all), but it is slow and useless.

The fine folks at BlackBerry certainly have not listened to Playbook owners.

[Roo Zilla]

OP - the replies you have gotten just show how far people still are from understanding what went wrong. They seem to have no idea what you are talking about.

You hit the nail on the head. BlackBerry created its own original customer base. However, fast-forward to today and that base comprises only a very small percentage of the total smartphone market. .. somewhere below 5%.. sound familiar?

A whole new market emerged as a result of BlackBerry's original innovations, but they did not recognize it nor capitalize on nearly any of it.

They continued to cling to their original market, which relative to the emerging world of smartphones became significantly smaller each year.

Only a very small percentage of today's smartphone market cares only about typing and emails on their smartphone.

Nearly all of the market today also factors in a very large "Wants" list when choosing their phone. When it comes to wants, BlackBerry pays by far the least attention to these. So naturally their devices do not excel at fulfilling wants, even the "want" to upgrade the device smoothly and without accidentally losing all your data. For years, only the original bare-essential vision was kept in focus. But as a whole, things looked increasingly antiquated and out of touch.

To add fuel to their problems, later on slippage with even the bare-essentials would occur (quality issues with devices, major outages on the essential services, and so on).

BlackBerry insisted, for years, on focusing on the needs of what was becoming a niche market.

Yes, they were listening closest to, and constantly reassured by, stuffy executives that only cared about having email on their phone. Meanwhile, entire companies and countless personal users began to seriously care about having a well-implemented Facebook on their phone, along with an endless list of other features and apps.

As a result, every year the devices fell a bit further behind the expectations of the much larger emerging market where your smartphone is your personal computer on the go.

And finally, this emerging market was incorrectly perceived as somehow separate from the original niche market: "We need tools, not toys.". Wrong, the correct statement to make would have been: "We need tools, and toys.".

The new market here also consists of all customers of the original market. The stuffy executive was waking up more every year to the reality that he/she could also have great browsing on their smartphone, and every year hearing more complaints from the people under them about these stuffy devices they were being forced to use.

And there you have it.

I've been saying exactly this for YEARS. The iPhone changed EVERYTHING, but instead of recognizing what it was, RIM just ignored it and hoped it would go away. They thought THEIR concept of a smartphone was what everybody wanted, and they gambled the company on it. They gambled wrong.

[trsbbs]

I've been saying exactly this for YEARS. The iPhone changed EVERYTHING, but instead of recognizing what it was, RIM just ignored it and hoped it would go away. They thought THEIR concept of a smartphone was what everybody wanted, and they gambled the company on it. They gambled wrong.

Their still ignoring it. Maybe it's time they split Enterprise phones out from main stream units.

But you have to think. Who else sells a keyboard phone in the top 3?
How many quad cores are their in the top 5?
How many 8 meg cameras are in the top 5?



Verizon Z10. Running 10.1.0.4651. Posted via CB10

[3Dee]

Their still ignoring it. Maybe it's time they split Enterprise phones out from main stream units.

I would love, love, love BB to go back to a focus on developing professional grade devices with professionals in mind, and stop trying to be all things to all men. They are becoming the archetypal 'jack of all trades, master of none' as they lose their focus and float into mobile no man's land.

I know it's an unpopular view, or that of the 'dinosaur' user, but the sooner that BB embrace their role as a niche player who rule that niche, as they used to, the sooner they'll have a viable future in my opinion.

Sent from my HTC One using CB Forums mobile app

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I would love, love, love BB to go back to a focus on developing professional grade devices with professionals in mind, and stop trying to be all things to all men. They are becoming the archetypal 'jack of all trades, master of none' as they lose their focus and float into mobile no man's land.

I know it's an unpopular view, or that of the 'dinosaur' user, but the sooner that BB embrace their role as a niche player who rule that niche, as they used to, the sooner they'll have a viable future in my opinion.

Sent from my HTC One using CB Forums mobile app

So how many device a year do you think BlackBerry could see each year as a niche player? 250K? 500K? How much would they have sell those devices,or the licenses for?

I know a number of "professionals" that are very happy with the non- BlackBerry device that they use and belive are professional grade devices.

Posted via CB10

[Roo Zilla]

I would love, love, love BB to go back to a focus on developing professional grade devices with professionals in mind, and stop trying to be all things to all men. They are becoming the archetypal 'jack of all trades, master of none' as they lose their focus and float into mobile no man's land.

I know it's an unpopular view, or that of the 'dinosaur' user, but the sooner that BB embrace their role as a niche player who rule that niche, as they used to, the sooner they'll have a viable future in my opinion.

Sent from my HTC One using CB Forums mobile app

The problem is, the most of the niche buyers have left and thus the niche market is much smaller than before. BYOD really opened the floodgates in enterprise, and it doesn't look like that trend is going to reverse itself any time soon. Take out all the sales to emerging markets where BlackBerry is mostly used by average consumers as a cheap texting alternative, and not "professionals," how many potential buyers of these "professional grade devices" will there be?

[fabio1]

BB cant win at the moment. BBOS7 still has more core and app features than BB10, therefor users are staying put and BB10 is not up to Android or Apple systems.

in my opinion BB10 should only have been launched on non keyboard devices Z10 and Z30 would have been sufficient, keyboard devices should remain on BBOS7. this would have kept most of BB users and non BB users happy.

The 9720 may be a little late in pleasing BBO7 users, I for one have gone from 9900 to Z10, then to GS3 to Q10 and then back to 9900.

I don't know the answer at the moment, feels like the old days at Nokia when symbian was failing and company lost its way, we now have two platforms, running with to many outdated and undeveloped devices and with no clear marketing or development program for both!

Thanks

[MasterOfBinary]

so what you're saying is it was useless when you bought it?

Usefulness is often relative to the competition. So originally it was this useful > < and now it's this useful ><

True story.

[southlander]

Do we, the ones that still use and have used BB products for some time now, really reflect the current smartphone user base?

I can only speak for myself. And the answer is no. I only really truly need email on my phone and I do use the Web browser a lot. I originally only bought a BlackBerry because it did email better than anything else. That's all I really care about. BlackBerry probably did listen too much to folks like me. Yeah.

Z10STL100-4/10.2.0.1047

[SoCalRedbird]

BlackBerry absolutely shot itself in the head when they openly campaigned to build a phone for "BlackBerry people."

As a loyal BlackBerry user, that was exciting! But us loyalists are few and far between. We were NEVER going to save this company. The BlackBerry brand is DEAD and gone in the United States, the most critical area to attract new users and converts. Its reputation is so bad that people were never going to convert based on that alone. The Z10 is a worthy competitor in my opinion, but reputation is not everything...it's the ONLY thing. While BlackBerry dumped their resources into their product, they completely whiffed on perception improvement. They didn't even try.

The only way out of this hole is a viral ad campaign and a coolness factor. (Note to marketing: Rolling out some geeky, out-of-touch German guy and some abstract artistry won't cut the mustard.)

My optimism toward this company's attempt at a comeback is gone.



Posted via CB10