[Omnitech]

In terms of "final nails" you never know until after the fact what the final nail is. The final nail may really have been the decision not to respond promptly to iPhone and that decision was made years ago.

Translation: "I will go to the ends of the earth to rationalize my precious "final nail" stance!"

Jakarta is delayed and he seems to get a pass on that.

Since the only public statement ever given by the company about Jakarta/Z3 availability was it will be available "in April", until April has ended I don't know why you would be making up lies like that.

His real play seems to be BES12 and that won't be here at least until November.

I know it's eternally tempting for certain perennial critics and BOBUs to make up things that they have decided are in the minds of company management so they can invent artificial "failures" (ie like your Jakarta claim above), but BES12 is not the only thing Chen and the company is working on.

Like most people here, I am a fan of BlackBerry for its phones. I don't care about BES, BBM, Mobile to mobile, or any of the other things that BlackBerry is focusing on. As a phone fan, I still am not sure that BlackBerry will be building phones that I want to buy. The focus now is on Keyboards and I've moved on from them. I love my Z30 and am sad that this device has gotten no support from the company.

Once again, you speak in inflammatory terms and make exaggerated claims (ie "no support" absolutism), it would not take a genius to figure out that you are highly partisan and biased.

And as I have pointed out here repeatedly, people who think that BlackBerry must be primarily a "handset company" are going to be awfully disappointed for a while, because that just isn't in the cards right now. The smartphone industry today is cutthroat and very VERY difficult to compete in at the top tier unless you are a very wealthy company. BlackBerry simply doesn't have the money to do it right now. Wake up and smell the coffee.

If you don't like that, I suggest you throw a few billion dollars their way, install some minions on the board and start telling them what to do. Otherwise, endless griping that they are not releasing and marketing top-tier devices in ridiculously expensive markets like North America and Europe for your consumptive pleasure is pointless noise.

[Omnitech]

Just think about all the companies that are essentially monopolies. In a lot of places, a lot of people use businesses and services where they have no other option. Like Comcast for instance. They seem to have no trouble treating their customers like crap, because in some places, it's them or nothing. I get what you were saying though

Those companies that are "essentially monopolies" did not get there because they "don't care about customers".

This is exactly the point I was making.

You may not like the way they have built their business. You may not like the way they operate their business. But without customers they have no business. If they manage to annoy most of their customers, either by not living up to their expectations, or by treating them poorly, then their business will fail.

You may feel that they are manipulative in how they promote their business, you may feel that they "trick" people into using their business, etc etc - but the bottom line is: if people are still signing up for their business, then those people are validating those business practices. So feel free to - as I often do - ridicule consumers for going along with what you consider shoddy business practices, and/or voting politicians into office who facilitate shoddy business practices etc... but one way or another, a business doesn't get to be dominant by annoying every one of their customers.

I happen to agree that Comcast is a low-calibre bottom-feeding business in many ways - but the sad reality is: most people don't seem to care.

I do - which is why I have nothing to do with Comcast, which happens to have the local cable contract here.

Same thing goes with AT&T: the last personal service I had that was tied to them - because they own the local copper telecom "last mile" here - was terminated this month because of a new option available to me, and now I have nothing to do with them either.

[SlcCorrado]

Those companies that are "essentially monopolies" did not get there because they "don't care about customers".

This is exactly the point I was making.

You may not like the way they have built their business. You may not like the way they operate their business. But without customers they have no business. If they manage to annoy most of their customers, either by not living up to their expectations, or by treating them poorly, then their business will fail.

You may feel that they are manipulative in how they promote their business, you may feel that they "trick" people into using their business, etc etc - but the bottom line is: if people are still signing up for their business, then those people are validating those business practices. So feel free to - as I often do - ridicule consumers for going along with what you consider shoddy business practices, and/or voting politicians into office who facilitate shoddy business practices etc... but one way or another, a business doesn't get to be dominant by annoying every one of their customers.

I happen to agree that Comcast is a low-calibre bottom-feeding business in many ways - but the sad reality is: most people don't seem to care.

I do - which is why I have nothing to do with Comcast, which happens to have the local cable contract here.

Same thing goes with AT&T: the last personal service I had that was tied to them - because they own the local copper telecom "last mile" here - was terminated this month because of a new option available to me, and now I have nothing to do with them either.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree. This whole subject is clearly a very touchy subject for you. I appreciate your effort to make others see your point though. Better to stand for something than nothing at all

[sinsin07]

That's fine, so nothing you write has any interest to me either then.

Too bad you didn't apply this principal first.

See how that works?

Yep. For me it'll work beautifully.

Now that we're on the level of 3rd-graders, ,,,

Speak for yourself, don't try an loop me in to machinations.

[birdman_38]

I was under the impression that he said that if handsets keep on generating loss..then at some point they 'may' shut down handset division...there is nothing wrong in what Chen said.

The question is, how long?

[lawguyman]

Translation: "I will go to the ends of the earth to rationalize my precious "final nail" stance!"




Since the only public statement ever given by the company about Jakarta/Z3 availability was it will be available "in April", until April has ended I don't know why you would be making up lies like that.




I know it's eternally tempting for certain perennial critics and BOBUs to make up things that they have decided are in the minds of company management so they can invent artificial "failures" (ie like your Jakarta claim above), but BES12 is not the only thing Chen and the company is working on.




Once again, you speak in inflammatory terms and make exaggerated claims (ie "no support" absolutism), it would not take a genius to figure out that you are highly partisan and biased.

And as I have pointed out here repeatedly, people who think that BlackBerry must be primarily a "handset company" are going to be awfully disappointed for a while, because that just isn't in the cards right now. The smartphone industry today is cutthroat and very VERY difficult to compete in at the top tier unless you are a very wealthy company. BlackBerry simply doesn't have the money to do it right now. Wake up and smell the coffee.

If you don't like that, I suggest you throw a few billion dollars their way, install some minions on the board and start telling them what to do. Otherwise, endless griping that they are not releasing and marketing top-tier devices in ridiculously expensive markets like North America and Europe for your consumptive pleasure is pointless noise.

I'm not sure where all this hostility is coming from.

If you look, you will see that Jakarta was originally said to be released in "March / April." I didn't make Chen say this. He said it all by himself without any prodding from me. If you want this time to go by but people not to think that there has been a delay, you need a much more powerful reality distortion field.

I get that BlackBerry doesn't have the resources to develop a lot of new phones anymore but they are still developing new phones. The problem is that their new phones are much like the phones people used to want to buy five years ago. If Steve Jobs, like Gretzky, skates to where the puck is going to be, Chen is skating to where the puck used to be. That seems not to be a very successful strategy. Why not develop phones that at least have a chance?

It is not just about money. It is about execution. If BlackBerry can't do what it says it is going to do, it won't matter even if they bring the belt back. If BlackBerry released a good product on time and heaven forbid marketed it properly, maybe they might sell enough units to turn a profit.

Posted via CB10

[anon(4185604)]

The question is, how long?

That's what she - sorry....

Posted via CB10

[Omnitech]

I'm not sure where all this hostility is coming from.

So you like the play the victim too?

I see criticism of your points and some suggestions about how to accomplish what you seem to want, you see hostility.

Are you one of those people that assumes "hostility" whenever someone disagrees with you or tells you that your stance doesn't hold water in their opinion?

If you look, you will see that Jakarta was originally said to be released in "March / April." I didn't make Chen say this. He said it all by himself without any prodding from me. If you want this time to go by but people not to think that there has been a delay, you need a much more powerful reality distortion field.

The OFFICIAL STATEMENT FROM BLACKBERRY is that the device would be "Expected to be available in April".

They have stuck with that, I see no evidence to the contrary. If you do, please post the specifics instead of making things up.

Mobile World Congress 2014: BlackBerry Forges Ahead with Introduction of New Products and Services | Inside BlackBerry

BlackBerry Introduces Stylish, 5” All-Touch BlackBerry 10 Smartphone Designed for Customers in Indonesia - Press Releases (BlackBerry.com)

Quote:
"Pricing and Availability

The new BlackBerry Z3 smartphone is expected to be available from leading carriers and retailers in Indonesia in April"

I get that BlackBerry doesn't have the resources to develop a lot of new phones anymore but they are still developing new phones. The problem is that their new phones are much like the phones people used to want to buy five years ago. If Steve Jobs, like Gretzky, skates to where the puck is going to be, Chen is skating to where the puck used to be. That seems not to be a very successful strategy. Why not develop phones that at least have a chance?

I and many others have explained this many times (including many people in at least one thread I saw that you created solely to gripe about this), but apparently your mental filter seems to filter out anything that doesn't dovetail with your opinion on the matter.

In short: you should resign yourself to the fact that BlackBerry simply cannot compete with top-echeleon devices/vendors in stupidly-expensive markets like the USA for at least another year or two because they simply do not have the resources. If you can't handle that, I suggest you switch platforms ASAP.

[MaxxxBerry23]

In short: you should resign yourself to the fact that BlackBerry simply cannot compete with top-echeleon devices/vendors in stupidly-expensive markets like the USA for at least another year or two because they simply do not have the resources. If you can't handle that, I suggest you switch platforms ASAP.

I'd argue that the USA are one of the, if not the, cheapest market of the western world from a consumer standpoint.
Devices and plans cost a significant lot less than everywhere else and everything is highly subsidized.
Nevertheless, off contract Devices are a lot cheaper too compared to other industrialized countries.


Posted via Q10 ?

[Omnitech]

I'd argue that the USA are one of the, if not the, cheapest market of the western world from a consumer standpoint.
Devices and plans cost a significant lot less than everywhere else and everything is highly subsidized.
Nevertheless, off contract Devices are a lot cheaper too compared to other industrialized countries.

LOL. The USA has the highest mobile phone service prices in the world, compared feature-for-feature.

But that was not my point.

My point had to do with the cost to launch, market and support a product in this market. It costs a MASSIVE amount of money to launch, market, advertise and support a top-tier smartphone in the US marketplace.

Google spent almost half a billion dollars trying to get their their last flagship Motorola device into the US market and it went almost nowhere, then they sold off the company. Needless to say, BlackBerry does not have even a tiny fraction of those kinds of funds to make a push into the US market right now. It takes hundreds of millions of dollars to get even a slight notice in the marketplace here.

That would be a really, really REALLY stupid expenditure of money for the company to make at this point in time. Especially considering the very VERY high risk of failing to generate significant sales/profit despite those kinds of expenditures.

[MaxxxBerry23]

LOL. The USA has the highest mobile phone service prices in the world, compared feature-for-feature.

But that was not my point.

My point had to do with the cost to launch, market and support a product in this market. It costs a MASSIVE amount of money to launch, market, advertise and support a top-tier smartphone in the US marketplace.

Ever looked at Europe? UAE? Just a few examples, where plans offer half the features of the T-Mobile/AT&T ones but still at the same price. Consumer goods in general are a lot less cost expensive in the US.

In my opinion one of the main reasons for the low effectiveness is that nearly every manufacturer and carrier is trying to push their device into the market with huge campaigns, often running side by side.

A single scream can't often be heard in a already noisy environment, if you know what I mean...



Posted via Q10 ?

[Omnitech]

Ever looked at Europe? UAE? Just a few examples, where plans offer half the features of the T-Mobile/AT&T ones but still at the same price. Consumer goods in general are a lot less cost expensive in the US.

In my opinion one of the main reasons for the low effectiveness is that nearly every manufacturer and carrier is trying to push their device into the market with huge campaigns, often running side by side.

Well the Mideast market is kind of weird, all sorts of people buying gold-plated phones there and stuff.

I talk to European users all the time, rarely have I encountered one that pays more in equivalent dollars when you take into account taxes and other things. (The tax on my cellphone bill here is kind of outrageous, but that depends on the locale)

A Z10 might cost $400 in India, but their monthly service is something like $8/month.

[MaxxxBerry23]

Well the Mideast market is kind of weird, all sorts of people buying gold-plated phones there and stuff.

One might say just as weird as any other market, with customers buying subsidized phones and such.

I talk to European users all the time, rarely have I encountered one that pays more in equivalent dollars when you take into account taxes and other things. (The tax on my cellphone bill here is kind of outrageous, but that depends on the locale)

A Z10 might cost $400 in India, but their monthly service is something like $8/month.

Where do you live and how much is the tax?

My beautiful white Z10 cost $720 here in Germany at launch, without taxes (20% VAT).
My contract runs $45 a month for unlimited texting, calling (both domestic) and 500MB of data.

Those are both good offerings for Germany but I can't imagine US consumers would dare to pay the same.

Posted via Q10 ?

[Omnitech]

Where do you live and how much is the tax?

My beautiful white Z10 cost $720 here in Germany at launch, without taxes (20% VAT).
My contract runs $45 a month for unlimited texting, calling (both domestic) and 500MB of data.

Those are both good offerings for Germany but I can't imagine US consumers would dare to pay the same.

San Francisco and I believe the monthly tax is at least $10-15 per line, just for the LOCAL taxes. There are state and federal taxes as well. I would have to dig into some bills to be sure.

In the USA the device price is quoted lower but this is a subterfuge because it is actually a contractual service agreement that requires 2 years of service through the carrier (who also sells the hardware), or else they will charge about $375 "early termination fee". (Which they claim is pro-rated depending on how long you keep the service but in reality the reduction per-month is advantageous in the carrier's direction, of course. )

And of course the Z10 is much cheaper now around the world than it was a year ago. Blackberry sells unlocked versions direct from their Canadian website for about $300 USD.

My carrier is currently advertising $60/mo USD for "unlimited" voice/text and 1GB data - but they also charge an "activation fee" and some other charges, and I do not believe that includes taxes. (This is a newly lowered price - used to be significantly more money until recently.)

I personally pay about $200/mo USD for 2 phones and 1 hotspot device all sharing unlimited text/voice and 6GB data.