Do you believe WhatsApp is end end encrypted?
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I did not believe it and I still do not believe that WhatsApp is end to end encrypted. I think it is only a marketing gimmick that WhatsApp is end to end encrypted so they just lead people to think that it is and therefore it is.
Why do I say so? Look at the articles below of police saying that they know how many times certain messages has been shared and that they have questioned recipients of WhatsApp messages of the suspects to the Westminster killing.
Video of robbery and rape at gambling den goes viral - Nation | The Star Online
Or this
https://privateinternetaccess.com/of...rnetaccess.com05-13-17 01:16 AMLike 0 -
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What do you recommend we use instead of WhatsApp, OP?
BBM is not encrypted at all unless you pay for it.southlander and jmr1015 like this.05-13-17 02:05 AMLike 2 -
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Well BBM is encrypted but not like end to end encryption as you may want. There is also the private chat on BBM that destroy the conversation when both parties close the chat.
Whatever it is, I guess it doesn't matter but I think WhatsApp end to end encryption us merely a gimmick.
Signal on the other hand has only recently achieved 1 million downloads, therefore the probability of usability is much lower than that of BBM though.05-13-17 03:12 PMLike 0 -
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You can't use a news story from a non-technical reporter with a big lack of real information to make conclusions about the robustness of the encryption of a messaging service, whether it's BBM, WhatsApp, or whatever. Assuming the police actually have WhatsApp messages, it's unlikely that they obtained them by breaking any encryption. It's far more likely that they obtained a device involved in the conversation, or that an older, pre-encrypted client was being used, or something else.
Without a full technical accounting, there's no way to know - but drawing any conclusions based on such incomplete information is foolish at best. If BBM was the messenger in question, folks here would be up-in-arms about the poor reporting...05-13-17 07:15 PMLike 10 -
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And what do whatsapp gain by having whatsapp non encrypted??? You should ask yourself that question!
The risk for whatsapp app for faking end to end encryption is much much greater than the cost of putting in place true end to end encryption.
End to end encryption implementation cost nothing compared to the budget they have. So why would they lie about it?
Agreed that implementation might not be perfect, but implying that they totally lied about it is a bit far fetch!05-13-17 09:06 PMLike 3 -
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Because Facebook can scan the messages for content, as well as downloading your entire contact list, in order to create ghost profiles of everyone you know, and you target you and then specifically with advertising.And what do whatsapp gain by having whatsapp non encrypted??? You should ask yourself that question!
The risk for whatsapp app for faking end to end encryption is much much greater than the cost of putting in place true end to end encryption.
End to end encryption implementation cost nothing compared to the budget they have. So why would they lie about it?
Agreed that implementation might not be perfect, but implying that they totally lied about it is a bit far fetch!
Facebook has everything to gain and nothing to lose by doing this.
If we all find out tomorrow they have faked it, which won't be easy since whatsapp is closed source and cannot be audited, then mostly no one would care and keep using it.
Why did Facebook buy them out for 16 billion dollars? They had their own chat app, it wasn't for the tech, it was for the massive database they had.
Information is power. That's what they stand to gain.05-13-17 09:54 PMLike 0 -
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100% this.You can't use a news story from a non-technical reporter with a big lack of real information to make conclusions about the robustness of the encryption of a messaging service, whether it's BBM, WhatsApp, or whatever. Assuming the police actually have WhatsApp messages, it's unlikely that they obtained them by breaking any encryption. It's far more likely that they obtained a device involved in the conversation, or that an older, pre-encrypted client was being used, or something else.
Without a full technical accounting, there's no way to know - but drawing any conclusions based on such incomplete information is foolish at best. If BBM was the messenger in question, folks here would be up-in-arms about the poor reporting...
End to end encryption is meaningless if one of the ends is in the hands of the police.jmr1015 and southlander like this.05-13-17 10:03 PMLike 2 -
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I think there's something you don't understand... they don't need to scan your messages to gather information on you. And they don't want to. Why would they? It would be bad press for them.Because Facebook can scan the messages for content, as well as downloading your entire contact list, in order to create ghost profiles of everyone you know, and you target you and then specifically with advertising.
Facebook has everything to gain and nothing to lose by doing this.
If we all find out tomorrow they have faked it, which won't be easy since whatsapp is closed source and cannot be audited, then mostly no one would care and keep using it.
Why did Facebook buy them out for 16 billion dollars? They had their own chat app, it wasn't for the tech, it was for the massive database they had.
Information is power. That's what they stand to gain.
They have plenty of information and ways to monetize.jmr1015 likes this.05-13-17 10:51 PMLike 1 -
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Oh, I know that. They scan other people's phones for information on me.
And they've never cared about bad press. Facebook is on the news all the time for more horrible and horrible things and they keep doing it.
Just Google Facebook and you'll see a TONNE of bad stories.05-14-17 03:20 AMLike 0 -
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Theres a difference about receiving bad press and caring about it.Oh, I know that. They scan other people's phones for information on me.
And they've never cared about bad press. Facebook is on the news all the time for more horrible and horrible things and they keep doing it.
Just Google Facebook and you'll see a TONNE of bad stories.
They receive bad press... it's normal. All corporations if this size will receive bad press. Especially one that have a billion subscriber.
But purposely faking encryption??? That is fraud and would lead to prison time. Remember that facebook is a public company and they have a fiduciary duty to manage the company well for the shareholdersjmr1015 likes this.05-14-17 07:25 AMLike 1 -
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Not too mention the large number of tech savvy people out there that would have already discovered and proved this if it were true.Theres a difference about receiving bad press and caring about it.
They receive bad press... it's normal. All corporations if this size will receive bad press. Especially one that have a billion subscriber.
But purposely faking encryption??? That is fraud and would lead to prison time. Remember that facebook is a public company and they have a fiduciary duty to manage the company well for the shareholders
Posted via CB10jmr1015 likes this.05-14-17 07:58 AMLike 1 -
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Yup and on top of that we got gouvernements blocking whatsapp cause they can't read the messages...
Hmmm funny that BBM doesn't have that problem!jmr1015 and Dunt Dunt Dunt like this.05-14-17 08:46 AMLike 2 -
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?? I think BBM messages for the consumer version are merely scrambled with a more or less common key. Maybe BlackBerry has changed this but I think you need enterprise to get anything strong.Well BBM is encrypted but not like end to end encryption as you may want. There is also the private chat on BBM that destroy the conversation when both parties close the chat.
Whatever it is, I guess it doesn't matter but I think WhatsApp end to end encryption us merely a gimmick.
Signal on the other hand has only recently achieved 1 million downloads, therefore the probability of usability is much lower than that of BBM though.jmr1015 likes this.05-14-17 08:54 AMLike 1 -
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Yeah there were a bunch of articles out about a year or two ago about consumer BBM using a common key and how the RCMP (Canadian national police) had the key and were using it to decrypt messages.
WhatsApp has more to lose than gain if they are deceiving the public about encryption. If users found out that was the case, trust and confidence would be lost and they would jump ship pretty quick.jmr1015 likes this.05-14-17 09:34 AMLike 1 -
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Seems like any Messenger claiming to be more secure than BBM is guilty until proven innocent around here. WhatsApp lyng about end-to-end encryption would be a huge headline story on every tech blog and site on the internet.DrBoomBotz likes this.05-14-17 10:58 AMLike 1 -
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It depends on what you think is meant by 'end-to-end' en/decrypt. There's a full description here but essentially, if your phone isn't encrypted, and you store backups of it in someone's Cloud, or on an unencrypted PC, then you're not really achieving anything. (Don't forget to encrypt your SD card.)I did not believe it and I still do not believe that WhatsApp is end to end encrypted. I think it is only a marketing gimmick that WhatsApp is end to end encrypted so they just lead people to think that it is and therefore it is.
Why do I say so? Look at the articles below of police saying that they know how many times certain messages has been shared and that they have questioned recipients of WhatsApp messages of the suspects to the Westminster killing.
<snip>
WhatsApp collects metadata if you allow it, so for a really secure messaging system all data at origin and destination has to be encrypted, as do all backups.
Most 'bad actor' comms these days tries to obfusticate or hide cell-phone numbers, IMEI and IMSI numbers, cell locations and IP addresses, all of which are often of more evidence use than the content of messages for establishing nefarious links between perps.
As yet, this isn't always successful as plenty of TOR users have found out.
Finally, while end-to-end links might be encrypted, storage of decrypted plain-text messages on Cloud servers does take place, and a court warrant will release them.05-14-17 12:47 PMLike 0 -
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Even if the messages are encrypted, they are tied to PID through users' cell phones, so that anyone with access can see the precise timing and length of all communications between all parties. Facebook needs this to monetize it's services, so it's not going away.
So, what you say may be private, but the detailed record of who you speak with and when you do it are easily accessible.
Anyone using WhatsApp thinking they have anonymity is deluded. You may be able to deny what you say, but you won't be able to deny when you said it or to whom.
The best way to maintain privacy and anonymity is not to communicate electronically at all.
Posted with my trusty Z1005-14-17 05:14 PMLike 0 -
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Prem WatsAppCrackBerry Jester of JestersYep. The classic question is still valid: Cui bono?Because Facebook can scan the messages for content, as well as downloading your entire contact list, in order to create ghost profiles of everyone you know, and you target you and then specifically with advertising.
Facebook has everything to gain and nothing to lose by doing this.
If we all find out tomorrow they have faked it, which won't be easy since whatsapp is closed source and cannot be audited, then mostly no one would care and keep using it.
Why did Facebook buy them out for 16 billion dollars? They had their own chat app, it wasn't for the tech, it was for the massive database they had.
Information is power. That's what they stand to gain.
;-P
• Long live the SPARK! * ... the evil N shall not priv-ail...!!! •05-14-17 07:00 PMLike 0 -
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Bla1zeCB OGYou are correct. WhatsApp uses Open Whipser Systems protocol - https://whispersystems.org/blog/whatsapp-complete/
Also relevant to this convo - https://whispersystems.org/blog/ther...sapp-backdoor/jmr1015 likes this.05-14-17 07:11 PMLike 1
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Do you believe WhatsApp is end end encrypted?
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