1. KNEBB's Avatar
    THERE'S BEEN SOME DEBATE WHETHER THE DATA SECURITY BlackBerry IS KNOWN FOR, IS STILL RELEVANT IN THE WORLD OF MOBILE PLATFORMS.

    I BEGAN TO COMMENT ON THE TOPIC, WHEN A CNN NEWS STORY BROKE OF: THE IRS REPORTING ON A "MASSIVE DATA THEFT". IT TELLS HOW THE CRIME WAS DONE BY USING PERSONAL DATA DERIDED THROUGH OTHER SOURCES TO FILE FRAUDULENT TAX RETURNS.

    IRS believes Russians are behind tax return data breach - CNNPolitics.com

    The other Operating Systems have noted the example of the BlackBerry OS and are using this opportunity to make themselves somewhat more efficient, in the hopes of closing the gap and making BlackBerry less relevant. But BlackBerry's saving grace has been data security in an unsecured world. But that also could be the problem.

    After 911, the practice of data mining has escalated. In the past it was frowned upon for a government to monitor the private communications of it's citizenship. But in a Post-911 Society, on many levels the public has accepted a compromise for the sake of national security.

    And now there is a new generation that have grown up in a era where this is commonly accepted practice. So the concepts of secure private information doesn't hold the same level of expectation, and there exist the rub.

    If you have governments that have made arrangements with Service Providers to supply them access to customers personal communications, coupled with a customer base who are less concerned with privacy, how do you promote the importance of protecting your private data?

    IOS , Android and others have business practices that lend themselves to the sharing of customer data. So with all the others players going in the opposing direction, is it a nuisance to have one company holding out against the new normal.

    And how much sympathy would there be to have them continue to manufacture unlocked headset units not setup to volunteer your info.

    Is this on the minds of BlackBerry executives as they reallocate resources away from manufacturing mobile phones for personal use and focus on devices and software directed at business user?

    It may take a major event in personal data security theft to cause a major paradigm shift back to the public insisting on a device that emphasizes data security over free apps.

    And BlackBerry would have to act to sieze the moment.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by KNEBB; 05-29-15 at 07:42 PM.
    05-27-15 06:04 PM
  2. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Nearly all security breaches have been with SERVERS, and almost none affecting mobile devices themselves. Most decision-makers realize this, and so whether they choose iOS, Android, WinPhone, or BB makes little difference - your phone may carry a lot of info about YOU, but it probably doesn't have much info on very many other people, and thus makes a poor target for most hackers - not enough usable data to make it worth the hassle. And if phones aren't a significant vector for hackers, then why suffer with the limitations of WinPhone or BB's limited ecosystems and marketplace support when you can buy iOS or Android instead? That's the question even most enterprise decision-makers ask themselves, and the answer generally isn't good for WinPhone or BB.

    For almost all users, the security offered by iOS or Android is good enough, and if it's good enough, then they aren't going to go for something better (such as BB10 with BES [BB10 on its own is in most ways no better than iOS or Android]) when the cost of doing so in terms of ecosystem support is so high. Thus BB's continuing decline in device sales.
    05-27-15 06:26 PM
  3. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    .....

    And BlackBerry would have to act to cease the moment.

    Posted via CB10
    "Seize" you mean... :-)

    ("cease" = stop, interrupt, terminate, finish, end...)

    �   Passposted while waiting for the Z-lider....   �
    ALToronto and KNEBB like this.
    05-27-15 10:56 PM
  4. Old_Mil's Avatar
    Blackphone seems to sell out every production run of its phones they put together. So the market for secure devices is there, it's just that the company needs someone with the vision to exploit it running the operation.

    Posted via CB10
    05-28-15 08:47 AM
  5. bakron1's Avatar
    As Troy said, the level of security provided by Android and IOS devices is more the adequate for most consumers daily needs.

    I have talked to many IT folks in the automotive sector who manage thousands of devices at the corporate level and none have had any major security concerns using IOS and/or Android devices.

    What's really sad is when I bring up the Blackberry name in the security conversation and most respond with "old news" and talk about something else.
    05-28-15 08:56 AM
  6. SunshineStateFlyer's Avatar
    I have many friends working in large corporate environments, handling confidential data and even though their companies are issuing BlackBerry devices as an option, none of them is using one.

    All modern smartphones are supporting the relevant security certificates and therefore can securely be attached to an IT infrastructure. For most companies this seems to be enough.

    As for the consumer side, I would say it doesn't matter at all for most people.

    Posted via CB10
    bakron1 likes this.
    05-28-15 09:43 AM
  7. sahilp17's Avatar
    Now this is a thread that can be of good value to forum readers. It really ticks me the wrong way when people (the common consumer) says that they use a Blackberry over iPhone because they don't want their privacy taken away. Give me a ******* break, it's long overdue that they realize the security only makes a difference if your on BlackBerry Enterprise servers and just as mentioned above, lots of IT departments say that there is no distinct advantage for one device over another if your not on BlackBerry Enterprise, so those people need to stop talking about that and find another dillusional argument of why they choose bb10

    Posted via CB10
    05-28-15 10:09 AM
  8. early2bed's Avatar
    Most of the examples of security breaches posted on this forum imply that BlackBerry could have prevented the problem but are, in fact, irrelevant.
    sentimentGX4 likes this.
    05-28-15 10:16 AM
  9. madman0141's Avatar
    If all you do is post on social media then the answer is no. If you do any kind of work then it is at the top of the list.
    05-28-15 11:33 AM
  10. KNEBB's Avatar
    Thanks for the info. The comments were insightful and Illuminating. Especially in understanding what the pulse is on this topic from other BlackBerry users and non-users.

    It was not my intention to imply that any phone on the market is immune to being hacked. The truth of the matter is, if someone wants in bad enough, they can find a way. Whether you use a BlackBerry, IOS, Android, WP, whatever, that's irrelevant.

    But, that being said, I was also raised in the city. And it's commonly known that if a "professional" wants into someone else's property, they usually pick the property that is known for being least secure.
    And they shy away from the opposite. Because they're not seeking a challenge, but to profit.

    And as a BlackBerry user, who wants to see the platform prosper and survive, I was wondering why wouldn't they be more aggressive in marketing one of the attributes that they were known for.
    Especially with the advent of the BLACKPHONE. Like it was stated before; who has proven there is a viable market to sell a device with those features.

    Yet, BlackBerry seems to be content counter punching back at the industry's assumptions of Mobile Phone irrelevance. And is more than willing to produce that same type of software, but to operate inside someone else's hardware.

    And in reference to folks in the industry regarding BlackBerry as old hat. Why wouldn't they. If the assumption is that BlackBerry is satisfied with just biding their time, or making products that just keep up with the competition , or only have practical application for a specific demographic, instead of work and home functionality for all and don't push the envelope.
    Then, just like everyone else, they're wondering if they're investing their money in a company, that's in it for the long haul.

    When you are at the card table, sometimes you have to make the other guy believe you're willing to go all in, if you want him to go all in.
    If you don't, they believe they're holding all the cards and that the money presently on the table is all they need to win the hand.


    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by KNEBB; 05-30-15 at 09:03 AM.
    05-28-15 02:31 PM
  11. asherN's Avatar
    If all you do is post on social media then the answer is no. If you do any kind of work then it is at the top of the list.
    Tools not toys??

    Explain how a non BES connected BB is any more secure than any other phone. Assume all are protected by a 4 digit PIN. Since BB does not offer a cloud storage, do not include breaches to iCloud or Google drive due to bad password policy.
    05-28-15 03:17 PM
  12. madman0141's Avatar
    Tools not toys??

    Explain how a non BES connected BB is any more secure than any other phone. Assume all are protected by a 4 digit PIN. Since BB does not offer a cloud storage, do not include breaches to iCloud or Google drive due to bad password policy.
    Nothing if we use your logic and do not use the tools that Blackberry is built for like BES. If it is a 4 digit pin only comparison you want then who ever guesses correctly first gets in.
    Last edited by madman0141; 05-29-15 at 06:16 AM. Reason: spelling
    05-29-15 06:15 AM
  13. asherN's Avatar
    Nothing if we use your logic and do not use the tools that Blackberry is built for like BES. If it is a 4 digit pin only comparison you want then who ever guesses correctly first gets in.
    That's exactly the point.

    We constantly see the argument here: "I'd never get an iOS/Android because my BB is more secure". Unless you're attached to a BES, no it's not.
    madman0141 likes this.
    05-29-15 09:18 AM
  14. Soulstream's Avatar
    That's exactly the point.

    We constantly see the argument here: "I'd never get an iOS/Android because my BB is more secure". Unless you're attached to a BES, no it's not.
    It is more secure if it is stolen as you can't access anything in it and you can't root it. But cases people steal your phone just for the purpose of stealing just your data are pretty rare.

    However, the second you send any kind of internet traffic (browser/app/whatever) that data is no more secure than iOS/Android/WP8 doing the exact same thing.

    So BB is (marginally) more secure in case it is stolen from you, but your internet data is just as secure/insecure as other phones.
    05-29-15 09:23 AM
  15. madman0141's Avatar
    That's exactly the point.

    We constantly see the argument here: "I'd never get an iOS/Android because my BB is more secure". Unless you're attached to a BES, no it's not.
    You are right and I agree that is a point that needs to be stressed so there is no confusion. I thought that it was somewhat a given but perhaps I'm wrong.
    05-29-15 12:06 PM
  16. sahilp17's Avatar
    It is more secure if it is stolen as you can't access anything in it and you can't root it. But cases people steal your phone just for the purpose of stealing just your data are pretty rare.

    However, the second you send any kind of internet traffic (browser/app/whatever) that data is no more secure than iOS/Android/WP8 doing the exact same thing.

    So BB is (marginally) more secure in case it is stolen from you, but your internet data is just as secure/insecure as other phones.
    Hold on, what do you mean by its more secure if it's stolen since you can't access anything in it? Are you simply talking about passwords on the phone which exist on every device? A little confused

    Posted via CB10
    05-29-15 12:24 PM
  17. Soulstream's Avatar
    Hold on, what do you mean by its more secure if it's stolen since you can't access anything in it? Are you simply talking about passwords on the phone which exist on every device? A little confused

    Posted via CB10
    it's because, unlike iOS and Android, BB10 can't be jailbroken/rooted. While in normal circumstances rooting an android phone will delete all personal data, the ability to root a phone does indeed makes it a little less secure. However in 99% of cases, if your phone is stolen, the thief has no interest in your personal data and will most likely do a factory reset on it.
    05-29-15 12:49 PM
  18. sahilp17's Avatar
    So if it's rooted, and android and ios phone will be wiped of all data. Bb cannot be rooted but if someone exceeded the number of password tries on my phone, the data on my phone would also be wiped and the phone would be like brand new to the thief. Both situations result in the same so I'm confused as to why rooting a phone makes it less secure than a blackberry

    Posted via CB10
    05-29-15 12:57 PM
  19. asherN's Avatar
    Apparently, there may be ways to unlock Android without erasing it. And it is possible that the information on a wiped iOS or Android can be recovered with the right tools. But we are now entering a very specific space Where someone stole your device BECAUSE of the information on it. Does not apply to 99.99% of the users out there.
    05-29-15 01:34 PM
  20. anon(9471936)'s Avatar
    I am still on CyanogenMod and would like to move on to BB (or maybe Jolla). A concern for me is not so much data theft or spying (as the latter is difficult to circumvent) but rather the "calling home" by Google Apps, iOS, and other apps. Apparently, they use my data to make money and finally, I do not have any control of the use of my data. Apart from physical keyboard, it would be a selling point if BB would not be data mining my privacy. What is the situation? If I want to protect my privacy in the way described, can I move to BB?
    05-30-15 07:52 AM
  21. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I am still on CyanogenMod and would like to move on to BB (or maybe Jolla). A concern for me is not so much data theft or spying (as the latter is difficult to circumvent) but rather the "calling home" by Google Apps, iOS, and other apps. Apparently, they use my data to make money and finally, I do not have any control of the use of my data. Apart from physical keyboard, it would be a selling point if BB would not be data mining my privacy. What is the situation? If I want to protect my privacy in the way described, can I move to BB?
    I agree with you. Privacy is the consumers main concern. I really dislike my Android tablet following me around. It is going to get worse with the next iteration of the Android OS. I presume that Apple does this too but if they do, it is not so much in your face. For consumers BlackBerry needs to advertise privacy not security.

    edit: Privacy is a concern of mine.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 05-30-15 at 12:11 PM.
    jojo212 likes this.
    05-30-15 10:10 AM
  22. anon(153966)'s Avatar
    Me personally I feel once you put something on the Internet, how secure can it really be? Even the providers (Google, Microsoft, etc.) are 'reading' users data...
    05-30-15 11:23 AM
  23. co4nd's Avatar
    I agree with you. Privacy is the consumers main concern. I really dislike my Android tablet following me around. It is going to get worse with the next iteration of the Android OS. I presume that Apple does this too but if they do, it is not so much in your face. For consumers BlackBerry needs to advertise privacy not security.

    Posted via CB10
    Except if privacy was a concern why would android be the number one platform, you would have to be an complete moron not to know google tracks you, it's how they make there money. It's not just phones either; chrome, youtube, google maps and gmail are all extremely popular. Facebook is also fairly upfront about using your information, yet everyone seems to use their service as well. Consumers may say they want their privacy but not if the other option is cheaper or more convenient.
    05-30-15 11:50 AM
  24. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Except if privacy was a concern why would android be the number one platform, you would have to be an complete moron not to know google tracks you, it's how they make there money. It's not just phones either; chrome, youtube, google maps and gmail are all extremely popular. Facebook is also fairly upfront about using your information, yet everyone seems to use their service as well. Consumers may say they want their privacy but not if the other option is cheaper or more convenient.
    Yes, that is true but BlackBerry is aiming to be a niche product and they need to carve out any space that the market offers.

    Posted via CB10
    05-30-15 01:55 PM
  25. KNEBB's Avatar
    Ah, but if you had the option of giving or not giving up your data and still having access to that app, what would "you" choose. Or if app's were rated based on Data Security Risk, which app would you select.

    Would you be willing to pay $1.99 for an app that normally cost $.99, If the slightly higher price of the app boast the additional feature of a guaranteed (with the risk of penalty) warranty against any data mining, capturing or copying any unneeded information on your device( for reason other than law enforcement purposes).

    Because I'd pay the dollar to know my data is secure against any distribution. And given the option, I think others might also.

    It's like having the option to buy Coke with or without the High Fructose Corn Syrup. Or beef from free grazed cattle, foods with no growth hormone or even bottled water (most at an additional cost associated) .

    Unless the option is on the table (which would also raise the question as to why it would be necessary), how can you be sure there's no market .

    But like smoking cigarettes, once the consumers are given a choice and made aware of the risk, the market will react accordingly.

    I brought that up because John Chen stated in his interview, that in the future BlackBerry will refocus their efforts on data security software. I hope he's including device software as well.



    Posted via CB10
    05-30-15 03:16 PM
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